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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: Pete Erskine on January 28, 2016, 08:43:54 PM

Title: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on January 28, 2016, 08:43:54 PM: I had downloaded this months before but just got around to testing it.

Unity Intercom (http://www.unityintercom.com/)

This is a small intercom system which can have clients on any platform: iPhone, Mac, PC, Android, iPad
Maximum size is 6 PL channels and 58 Users. You can rent Unity intercom with their server in the cloud or buy the server and ports. In the future they may also offer rental ports with your purchased server.

Here is more info on My web www.bestaudio.com/unity

I have it on my server permanently and have talked to users in as far away as Germany with no noticeable latency.

I have been told that networks are using it on TV trucks for supplemental comms as well as initial setup comms.

If you want to demo it, download the client (no charge)

My server is peterskine.selfip.com port 20101
Users are setup as Demo1 and Demo2
All use Password 1234

Here is a video on how to use it https://vimeo.com/154436868

On the website you can get a 15 day demo which can do 20 users.
A discount is available from http://www.dcscomms.tv/

The client for iPhone is shown below along with the User Point to Point screen and the Mac computer client.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 28, 2016, 08:59:09 PM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on January 28, 2016, 08:43:54 PM
I had downloaded this months before but just got around to testing it.

It did seem pretty cool in testing. It worked great from my iPhone via WiFi and my laptop via WiFi, both on my home network. Keeping your phone active on WiFi all day will probably run your battery down quickly, but I was able to watch a video and use the comm on my laptop.

Mac
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: brian maddox on January 28, 2016, 09:18:10 PM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on January 28, 2016, 08:43:54 PM
I had downloaded this months before but just got around to testing it.

Unity Intercom (http://www.unityintercom.com/)

This is a small intercom system which can have clients on any platform: iPhone, Mac, PC, Android, iPad
Maximum size is 6 PL channels and 53 Users

Interesting. So by my math you could max at the system for 5500 bucks? 53 clients?

Are the clients floating or is each device specific? That is, can i use it on my iPhone using client maddox101, end that session and then use it on my Mac as client maddox101?

Would this work over LTE? [it should but i thought i'd check]

As someone doing iOS comm systems using the ClearCom Eclipse matrix via IP, this is a pretty neat looking solution. Certainly a WHOLE lot cheaper. I'll be checking it out.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 28, 2016, 09:55:46 PM: Quote from: brian maddox on January 28, 2016, 09:18:10 PM
Are the clients floating or is each device specific? That is, can i use it on my iPhone using client maddox101, end that session and then use it on my Mac as client maddox101?

I did. It took about 15-20 sec for the server to allow me back in on the new device. I don't know about LTE, I was using all WiFi, but it seems like it would work fine, just cost more.

Mac
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: brian maddox on January 28, 2016, 11:18:41 PM: Quote from: Mac Kerr on January 28, 2016, 09:55:46 PM
I did. It took about 15-20 sec for the server to allow me back in on the new device. I don't know about LTE, I was using all WiFi, but it seems like it would work fine, just cost more.

Mac

If their data usage is anything like what i've experienced using the ClearCom system, the cost is almost a non-issue. i forget the exact amounts, but we did an LTE experiment for the better part of a day and IIRC the data usage was maybe 300 MB. And since it was LTE, it was actually significantly more stable and reliable then the very crowded WiFi, not to mention portable.

FWIW.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Neil White on January 29, 2016, 02:34:47 AM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on January 28, 2016, 08:43:54 PM
The client for iPhone is shown below along with the User Point to Point screen.

Thanks for sharing Pete, looks like a very interesting product. How do you feel it compares to VCOM?

That point to point screen looks like a who's who of comms guys around the world!
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on January 29, 2016, 05:50:22 AM: Quote from: Neil White on January 29, 2016, 02:34:47 AM
Thanks for sharing Pete, looks like a very interesting product. How do you feel it compares to VCOM?

That point to point screen looks like a who's who of comms guys around the world!

VCOM is more of a full featured Matrix system but it is several years older. Unity started only a couple of years ago. I hear that one of the owners and the principal designer also is the person who developed the "Photo deposit" system which all banks are implementing.

I use LTE and it works well.

The server does not care what type of client uses a login. Log in using your PC and then switch to iPhone with same login (one at a time). This is the client screen.

The 64 lights at the bottom are Tally indicators if you have that option.

Strangely enough there is no online documentation, just THIS (http://www.bestaudio.com/unity) which is only accessible from within the server.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensif internet intercom system
Post by: brian maddox on January 29, 2016, 02:39:09 PM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on January 29, 2016, 02:00:31 PM
My mistake max clients are 58. I believe if you use their server it is 100.

Okay, i misunderstood the concept and so your reply confused me.

So i actually went to the link and checked out the product. i'm brilliant.

So you can have your own server locally that can be logged into remotely assuming you are on the interwebs so you can talk with remote users. local users can get on the server either through a wired LAN or WiFi LAN connected to your local server.

Alternatively, you can use their Cloud Server and everyone logs onto that via the internet. I suspect in that scenario that people talking someone next to them might experience some latency since they can hear the person a bit acoustically as well. I'd be curious to see how bad that actually was as that's been a real issue i've had using the Eclipse system over IP.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensif internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on January 29, 2016, 06:41:56 PM: Quote from: brian maddox on January 29, 2016, 02:39:09 PM
I suspect in that scenario that people talking someone next to them might experience some latency since they can hear the person a bit acoustically as well. I'd be curious to see how bad that actually was as that's been a real issue i've had using the Eclipse system over IP.

I find adjacent latency to be 50-100 ms or about the same as cellular phones.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: George Hardt on January 31, 2016, 11:38:15 AM: this is great! talked to several people over this today - from the US to germany and back...

we're going to buy some licences...

george
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 01, 2016, 08:53:11 AM: Tried to login… but I can't find where you mentioned the password? Or I could be blind :)
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 01, 2016, 09:07:30 AM: Quote from: Steve Anderson on February 01, 2016, 08:53:11 AM
Tried to login… but I can't find where you mentioned the password? Or I could be blind :)

Reread the first post in the thread.

Mac
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 01, 2016, 11:43:37 AM: Quote from: Mac Kerr on February 01, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
Reread the first post in the thread.

Mac

Ummm… I did, multiple times to make sure I hadn't missed something. Unless tapatalk is doing something weird.

I ended up guessing 1234 before Pete posted it. (Thanks Pete)

I'll check again tomorrow when it's not 3.40am.

Steve
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 01, 2016, 12:15:28 PM: Quote from: Steve Anderson on February 01, 2016, 11:43:37 AM
Ummm… I did, multiple times to make sure I hadn't missed something. Unless tapatalk is doing something weird.

I ended up guessing 1234 before Pete posted it. (Thanks Pete)

I'll check again tomorrow when it's not 3.40am.

Steve

No worries. But here is what you should be seeing.

Mac
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 01, 2016, 12:23:42 PM: Quote from: Mac Kerr on February 01, 2016, 12:15:28 PM
No worries. But here is what you should be seeing.

Mac
And here is what tapatalk shows… weird!
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 01, 2016, 10:45:43 PM: http://www.tvcomms.com doesn't seem to go anywhere. Is that the right url?
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 01, 2016, 11:24:20 PM: Quote from: Andrew Broughton on February 01, 2016, 10:45:43 PM
http://www.tvcomms.com doesn't seem to go anywhere. Is that the right url?

this is the right one http://www.dcscomms.tv/

discount unity purchase upper right.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 03, 2016, 12:28:21 PM: Great chatting with you Pete... and thanks for setting up the demo system
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 03, 2016, 01:28:11 PM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on February 01, 2016, 11:24:20 PM
this is the right one http://www.dcscomms.tv/ (http://www.dcscomms.tv/)

discount unity purchase upper right.

Got it. Thanks!

I'd like to hear some real-world evaluations on this system's compatibility interfacing with hardwired TW com. I understand how it works, using a soundcard and 4W to TW interfaces and so on, just like to know how well it works in comparison to interfacing "regular" wireless COM with hardwire.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: brian maddox on February 03, 2016, 03:42:57 PM: Quote from: Andrew Broughton on February 03, 2016, 01:28:11 PM
Got it. Thanks!

I'd like to hear some real-world evaluations on this system's compatibility interfacing with hardwired TW com. I understand how it works, using a soundcard and 4W to TW interfaces and so on, just like to know how well it works in comparison to interfacing "regular" wireless COM with hardwire.

As would i. The devil is always in the details, although i should think that level matching and such would be relatively easy via whatever sound card software you're using.

Still, if there's one thing i've learned over the years it's the little things that get you. I would be curious to talk with folks that have interfaced this into analog comms to see what their experiences were like.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 03, 2016, 11:04:44 PM: Quote from: brian maddox on February 03, 2016, 03:42:57 PM
As would i. The devil is always in the details, although i should think that level matching and such would be relatively easy via whatever sound card software you're using.

Still, if there's one thing i've learned over the years it's the little things that get you. I would be curious to talk with folks that have interfaced this into analog comms to see what their experiences were like.

Another very active comms person is Jess Heimlich who has the discount website for Unity. He has used this on many shows, sometimes as the ONLY comm system. I have asked Jess to Join PS forum to respond.

In the shop we discussed the use as similar to a walkie talkie with the added benefit of Point-point and program feed. Even if is not interfaced it has potential. I will be trying it out at a couple of large events in the next couple of weeks and in March we begin the advance trips for the commission on presidential debates. We'll use it then as well as a radio replacement.

I tried to use Dante VIA as an audio router within the server. Strangely enough without a separate Dante clock from an external source, VIA only operates at 48K. Unity runs at 44.1K and supposedly re-clocks it's own inputs but it didn't work. The clients continued to disconnect. Removing the Dante Via connection fixed it. Does anyone know if Dante VIA can have a 44.1k clock rate and how to do it on a Mac Mini

I have been asked, If you own the server with X ports but have an occasional show which needs more, can they get a time sensitive upgrade for their server at the cloud rates?

Chuck Downs from Unity responded: Not at the moment, but 'Event Licenses' are in the works for a future update. They would work exactly like the Cloud licenses.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 03, 2016, 11:09:54 PM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on February 03, 2016, 11:04:44 PM
I have been asked, If you own the server with X ports but have an occasional show which needs more, can they get a time sensitive upgrade for their server at the cloud rates?

Chuck Downs from Unity responded: Not at the moment, but 'Event Licenses' are in the works for a future update. They would work exactly like the Cloud licenses.

Cheers Pete!
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 03, 2016, 11:47:30 PM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on February 03, 2016, 11:04:44 PM
Does anyone know if Dante VIA can have a 44.1k clock rate and how to do it on a Mac Mini

Just got off the phone with my guy at Audinate... At least with DVS (Virtual Soundcard) you can just set it to 44.1k. There is still a master network clock, which all the sample rates are derived from, but multiple sample rates on one network should be fine. He also mentioned that he thought it was possible with Via, but it was a pretty quick call. I haven't used Via personally.

So haven't done it (Unity <--> Dante Via/DVS) yet, but it's worth pursuing.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 04, 2016, 03:42:12 AM: Quote from: Steve Anderson on February 03, 2016, 11:47:30 PM
Just got off the phone with my guy at Audinate... At least with DVS (Virtual Soundcard) you can just set it to 44.1k. There is still a master network clock, which all the sample rates are derived from, but multiple sample rates on one network should be fine. He also mentioned that he thought it was possible with Via, but it was a pretty quick call. I haven't used Via personally.

So haven't done it (Unity <--> Dante Via/DVS) yet, but it's worth pursuing.

This is a very interesting topic. Years ago I ran an engineering group at Motorola that was tasked with emulating a conventional simplex radio system via an embedded IP application on a 1xRTT cellular network. We built SIP software, RTP crossbars and a complete NEBS compliant high availability Linux platform to run in on in the central offices.

Once we had that running users wanted to extend their radio systems over IP networks and at first it appeared we could use conventional telephony gateways with T1 channel banks and 4 wire E&M interfaces.

Radio repeater base stations use RF duplexers and can transmit and receive at the same time. It's the users radio that lacks a duplexer hence the Push to talk operation. The audio exiting the repeater is a conventional 4 wire circuit.

This meant we were nulling the hybrid in the digital domain. Adding sidetone and comfort noise became an obsession. Emulating the analog experience was the most complex and challenging effort of my engineering career. There are so many subtle cues users get in an analog system that make them comfortable with the operation. We were never able to achieve that ease of user comfort than the analog system provided. Latency on the IP side changed, when pressing the PTT button the confidence of operating a switch or closing a relay was lost.

The project was eventually killed. Nexel faded into a memory and two way radio systems are niche products today.

I am not sure how analogues this is to what you are trying to accomplish. Since the simplex limitation is a hardware limitation I would think that the intercom application is really just a massive conference bridge with a mute switch. You don't always have two audio pairs hence you have to use a hybrid to provide the duplex interface.

A good analog hybrid with high quality transformers sounds wonderful. If you need a reminder get a clean 48v power supply and hook up a pair of Bell phones from the 70's. The sidetone is perfect and the speech response curves are amazing. Bell labs did a great job.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: brian maddox on February 04, 2016, 02:36:29 PM: Quote from: Scott Holtzman on February 04, 2016, 03:42:12 AM
....
A good analog hybrid with high quality transformers sounds wonderful. If you need a reminder get a clean 48v power supply and hook up a pair of Bell phones from the 70's. The sidetone is perfect and the speech response curves are amazing. Bell labs did a great job.

I think that's one of the reasons why most production people find it so inexplicable that their comms don't 'just work'. After all, it's really just a glorified telephone right? How hard is that?

Damn You Bell Labs!!!!!! :)
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 06, 2016, 12:23:06 AM: So, Peter...

You've tried this system and GreenGo, what are the pros/cons of each?
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 06, 2016, 08:45:27 AM: Quote from: Andrew Broughton on February 06, 2016, 12:23:06 AM
So, Peter...

You've tried this system and GreenGo, what are the pros/cons of each?
Besides being intercom there's no comparison. Unity is a simple 6 channel partyline/P-P system. Greengo is a full featured intercom Matrix system comparable to Adam, Artist, and Eclipse systems.
I have included Intracomsystems VCOM in this comparison.

Unity Greengo VCOM
PL channels 6 32 no limit
Wireless yes yes no
Hardwired yes Yes yes
# users 58 3000 no limit
Groups no 250 no limit
Save config no yes no limit
price/user $100 $900 $900
cloud user cost $8 N/A $40
cost for server $800 incl I/O N/A incl with users
programibility simp some features of matrix some features of matrix
needs server yes no Yes
Master stations no yes Yes
VIA Internet yes 2 chans with extra hardware all via internet
Beltpacks no yes no
iphone yes yes yes
SIP compat no no yes
4-wire interface 6 2 chans with extra hardware no limit

Quality is comparable
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Andrew Broughton on February 06, 2016, 09:15:20 AM: That's great info! Thanks, Pete!
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 06, 2016, 05:39:21 PM: Here is a video I did showing the components of Unity Intercom.

https://vimeo.com/154436868
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 06, 2016, 05:57:23 PM: Quote from: Pete Erskine on February 06, 2016, 05:39:21 PM
Here is a video I did showing the components of Unity Intercom.

Nice description Pete.

Mac
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 07, 2016, 01:47:04 PM: I am going to use it on a show this week, Thurs and Friday, at MSG interfaced to the Riedel comm system.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Paul Guthrie on February 07, 2016, 06:16:54 PM: I used it on a corporate show last weekend.

Approx 1200 people in attendance, in a civic center. It was a variety talent show. We had 14 or 15 people on comm: Audio, Lighting, Video, Stage Managers, Props, and Backstage.

Downloaded the Demo server onto a Mac Mini, which was hardwired to Apple Airport Extreme Located at FOH (Back of Civic Center) , a Apple Airport express was in my Wireless Mic Rack Case at the side of the Stage (it extends network or rebroadcast the wifi, * this is not a unique setup, this was normal for me to monitor wireless mics and use stage mix) Mixture of Iphones, Android phones people using regular headsets for phones, or gaming headsets, I was using IEM's with a phone cable i Got from JH Audio.

It worked flawlessly! I was very impressed with it.

Video Director was able to call shots for the Cam Operators, Stage managers were able to inform me what mics were coming onto stage, Props and backstage were able to let me know if we were ready for the next act or needed more time, at which I would call either to roll another commercial or roll music for intro etc.

I have been looking for a Comm system for a while now. I think for our use this will be fine. There are a few things I would like to see expanded or developed but for the low cost, its pretty great.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensif internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 08, 2016, 12:38:17 PM: Here is a statement from Unity about the latency:

Unity adds latency through the server and at the receive end as well for audio buffering. This is a settable parameter in the individual applications. When using WiFi or cellular connections, we recommend 140ms as a universal number, since most WiFi installations are really quite terrible. If you're using the desktop applications in a hard-wired configuration (Mac or Windows), you can configure down to 40ms. You'll find the 140ms setting is similar to a cell-phone call in terms of overall latency.

Currently there is a latency setting in the server which physically sets it's buffer size if it's larger than the remote applications buffer. This will probably go away in future versions, since it's almost never changed from 40ms. If a particular user is in a bad location for wireless coverage, they bump up their individual setting, which changes that on the server as well for that particular connection.

The latency does not increase as you add more users.

My demo version of Unity will now be permanent but with 2 users only, Demo1 and Demo2. Later this week I will be using a new beta produce from Unity called Unity Connect, a Mac based high-quality/low-latency multiple audio channel encoder/decoder for internet transmission of audio. It can send one to many and many to one 4 wire circuits. This will allow me to interconnect my Riedel system at my show to my server located off site.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 09, 2016, 08:09:23 PM: Quote from: brian maddox on February 03, 2016, 03:42:57 PM
As would i. The devil is always in the details, although i should think that level matching and such would be relatively easy via whatever sound card software you're using.

Still, if there's one thing i've learned over the years it's the little things that get you. I would be curious to talk with folks that have interfaced this into analog comms to see what their experiences were like.
Here is info about it's use on real life shows from Jess Heimlich.

Peter Erskine posted a wonderful introduction to Unity Intercom and Unity Connect. I just wanted to add a few comments to Peter's, so you have some more info to think about.

Many of you don't know me, so a brief background, solely to validate what I am about to say:

At the 2015 NAB show, I ran into the Unity people. The old saying goes if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Well, to make a long story short, I immediately called them and offered to throw money at them to become a dealer.

I have been using their product(s) since last March on some pretty high profile shows. (In the interest of NOT being sued, or 'spanked', I won't mention the shows directly,) However, I can give you enough info for you to figure out what these shows are: A yearly golf tournament that takes place in Augusta, GA. Another that follows in August. Football games that air on Monday and Thursday Night, and one that aired this past Sunday. And a 4 Letter network's worldwide coverage of tennis .

The pro's of the system are its simplicity, the low latency, and the cost. Unity's closest competitor charges 8x as much and requires a ton of programming. The learning curve is about 45 seconds, and....well, it just works !!!

The cons: It does use a good bit of battery life. my suggestion is to purchase one of the batteries that slip onto your phone and also act as a case.

Having written the GUI's for quite a few programs related to live sound and communications, I can tell you with complete confidence that the Unity team knows how to write great code, and spectacular interfaces. Unity Intercom is NOT a tool to replace any of the RTS/Riedel/Dalec systems, but rather an application to expand the tool kit we use to enhance the ability's of our clients.

In the interests of full disclosure, as previously stated, I am a Unity Dealer. You can contact me if you have questions about use, connectivity, et. al. Best of all, if you do, I will send you a discount coupon to save you a bit more money.

========================================

I am about to use it on a show interfacing the show Riedel system for a fashion show Thursday at MSG. I am using Unity connect to send the 4 wires to the Unity server located off site. see post and video on Unity connect here: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,158064.0.html

If you want to listen in to rehearsals Wednesday on user: Demo1 pass 1234
Only channel 5 will be able to talk and then only to me.
I will not have it online during the show on Thursday.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 16, 2016, 10:15:28 PM: Hey Pete, how did the MSG job go? Any more thoughts on the system? Cheers
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 16, 2016, 11:03:19 PM: Quote from: Steve Anderson on February 16, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
Hey Pete, how did the MSG job go? Any more thoughts on the system? Cheers

It's all about your connection...Prior to doors open it worked well. Good solid connection to Riedel and back. Unfortunately I couldn't get a hard internet line so My Riedel was on a wifi. Tried a cellular dongle but no better.
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Steve Anderson on February 24, 2016, 11:03:30 AM: From an app update on the IOS App Store, the Unity server will soon support 48kHz... which hopefully will fix the Dante Via problem mentioned in the other thread.

It seems they've listened :)
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Jordan Wolf on February 24, 2016, 11:33:40 AM: Quote from: Steve Anderson on February 24, 2016, 11:03:30 AM
From an app update on the IOS App Store, the Unity server will soon support 48kHz... which hopefully will fix the Dante Via problem mentioned in the other thread.

It seems they've listened :)
I was just about to post this. Makes me happy, too.

- Jordan Wolf
Title: Re: Terrific, inexpensive internet intercom system
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 24, 2016, 01:21:38 PM: Quote from: Steve Anderson on February 24, 2016, 11:03:30 AM
From an app update on the IOS App Store, the Unity server will soon support 48kHz... which hopefully will fix the Dante Via problem mentioned in the other thread.

It seems they've listened :)

They are extremely responsive to their users. I think it is only a couple of people and still are in their infancy.