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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: Patrick Riley on June 16, 2016, 03:51:57 PM
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Being a newbie to IAS, I have a couple of questions.
- When the program runs out of frequencies within a band range, but you still need more in a particular zone, what is the best approach? I ran into this problem & deselected the triple beats option to get more.
- Are there any shortcut keystrokes in the program for entering redundant data? All I've found are the ctrl x, c, v for cut & pasting
Any other time saving tips or cool features would be appreciated.
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You can try making the IM settings less strict, especially if you know devices will stay further away from one another.
Also, go through Pete Erskine's website (http://www.bestaudio.com) and his tutorials, etc.
- Jordan Wolf
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You can try making the IM settings less strict, especially if you know devices will stay further away from one another.
Also, go through Pete Erskine's website (http://www.bestaudio.com) and his tutorials, etc.
- Jordan Wolf
Good stuff on Mr Erskines website. I've seen a couple of his videos on you tube. Thanks Jordan
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Being a newbie to IAS, I have a couple of questions.
- When the program runs out of frequencies within a band range, but you still need more in a particular zone, what is the best approach? I ran into this problem & deselected the triple beats option to get more.
- Are there any shortcut keystrokes in the program for entering redundant data? All I've found are the ctrl x, c, v for cut & pasting
Any other time saving tips or cool features would be appreciated.
I typically remove 5th order and 3TX 3rds in order to fit more channels into a coordination.
I've also found that sometimes by changing the order of which bands I test for compatible channels can also help.
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I typically remove 5th order and 3TX 3rds in order to fit more channels into a coordination.
I've also found that sometimes by changing the order of which bands I test for compatible channels can also help.
Hi Karl
Is there a certain order that you recommend? I just finished a coordination for Black Hat. We had 175 mics, & some BTR 800 drops in 60 rooms & exibits. I typically will remove the triple beats until I run out of freqs, then remove the 5th's. I always enter the BTR freqs first, then go down the list of mics in ascending order. Most of my corporate work involves Shure uhf-r, ulxp, qlxd & ulxd hardware. We were challenged in that there were no L3's on the gig. I got a taste of what the post auction environment will be like.
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I typically remove 5th order and 3TX 3rds in order to fit more channels into a coordination.
I've also found that sometimes by changing the order of which bands I test for compatible channels can also help.
Here's a recent example: One thing that I do, especially when doing off-site coordinations that will be implemented by someone else, is generate a list of generic spare frequencies. I do this by doing a range search in Generic, using the start and stop frequencies of the available equipment (or spectrum, in the event that it comes down to ordering in more gear). So for a coordination in Canada, I would go 470-698 MHz, first with all 3 boxes checked, then a 2nd pass with 5th's turned off and then a third pass with 3TX 3d's turned off. Each group would be graded by what boxes were checked, as in: "High Grade Generic Spares; use these first" for the ones with all 3 boxes checked.
Now a few times I've done this and noticed a chunk of spectrum in the graph that was wide open, with no frequencies allocated to it. Hitting the "Calculate" button multiple times would generate a few different frequencies with each pass (That's a thing, BTW, if you're looking for tips), but still would not allocate anything to that open area. So, the last time this happened, I changed the range to, IIRC, 500-698 MHz, and then IAS allocated some frequencies to that open spectrum.
An important thing to remember is that what IAS is doing is MATH...a whole lot of math. I have often found that sometimes it just needs some room to do the calculations. I'm sure anyone who has used IAS a lot has had this experience: You need just one more frequency in some band, and even with the parameters adjusted to their loosest, you get nothing. So, what to do? You go to another band and remove a spare frequency, hit "Calculate" again, and suddenly you get TWO new freq's in the band you needed one for. Why? Because you gave it room to do some math. Remember that it is calculating EVERY frequency against all of the others, which is how you get up into the millions...tens of millions...even hundreds of millions of potential thirds. Which is also how you get to use this line:
Q: "Can you give me just one more frequency?"
A: Well I've got 21,635,786 places you CAN'T go...but I'll try!"
best,
Ike
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Hi Karl
Is there a certain order that you recommend? I just finished a coordination for Black Hat. We had 175 mics, & some BTR 800 drops in 60 rooms & exibits. I typically will remove the triple beats until I run out of freqs, then remove the 5th's. I always enter the BTR freqs first, then go down the list of mics in ascending order. Most of my corporate work involves Shure uhf-r, ulxp, qlxd & ulxd hardware. We were challenged in that there were no L3's on the gig. I got a taste of what the post auction environment will be like.
Ike's approach is similar to mine. I always start with any "fixed" devices that "can't change" (although sometimes it comes down to getting some of these changed) then onto my primary mics.
What I meant about trying a different order is about the available frequency bands of the equipment. I usually start with the fixed devices, then add the lowest frequency band of my various gear, then go up from there. However, say you get to your Block 25 (Lectrosonics) units or your L3 (Shure) units, and can't get enough frequencies even though you've un-checked TX3rds and 5th order IMs. What I might do is go back to a lower band that seemed to have plenty, and delete all those, and then do your higher band, followed by the lower band again.
Hopefully that made sense...
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If I can't get a band of devices to fit in a coordination I'll put them in another zone, coordinate them there and then move them to the active zone. Then I'll coordinate the other devices around them. I'll do this with IEM's before trying to remove the 3tx 3rds.
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If I can't get a band of devices to fit in a coordination I'll put them in another zone, coordinate them there and then move them to the active zone. Then I'll coordinate the other devices around them. I'll do this with IEM's before trying to remove the 3tx 3rds.
By locking the new frequencies and then doing a re-calc on the rest?
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If I can't get a band of devices to fit in a coordination I'll put them in another zone, coordinate them there and then move them to the active zone. Then I'll coordinate the other devices around them. I'll do this with IEM's before trying to remove the 3tx 3rds.
By locking the new frequencies and then doing a re-calc on the rest?
If you don't do what Ike suggests this will not result in a good coordination. The devices you coord in a different zone are not coordinated with the original zone, only checked for direct hits, not IM products. When you move them to the original zone you are accepting all those IMs. By locking them and doing a re-calc you will be checking them for IMs against your imported freqs.
Mac
PS. IAS tiip; coordinate the least frequency agile devices first. If you are using Telex BTR800 comms they generally need to be done first as they are not as agile as mics and IEMs. Then do IEM so you can leave 3x3rds on for all the high power transmitters that will be near each other, then mics, and you can reduce the robustness of the IM since the mics are less likely to be very close to each other.
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Mac,
You misunderstood and I probably wasn't being clear. All devices are ultimately calculated in the same zone. For example, at a concert with no comm, and one active zone for coordination which has IEM's and wireless mics, gtr packs etc... If I have trouble finding frequencies for my IEM's I will create another zone and coordinate my IEM's there. I will move the IEM's back into the active zone (with all the other devices) for the show and recalculate the microphone/all other assignments leaving the IEM's alone. This gives IAS some space to calculate the devices I would like to keep the most robust, the IEM's.
I prefer this method to deleting devices, calculating what's there, adding deleted devices back because it saves time labeling the devices again. Hope this makes sense.
If you don't do what Ike suggests this will not result in a good coordination. The devices you coord in a different zone are not coordinated with the original zone, only checked for direct hits, not IM products. When you move them to the original zone you are accepting all those IMs. By locking them and doing a re-calc you will be checking them for IMs against your imported freqs.
Mac
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Mac,
You misunderstood and I probably wasn't being clear. All devices are ultimately calculated in the same zone. For example, at a concert with no comm, and one active zone for coordination which has IEM's and wireless mics, gtr packs etc... If I have trouble finding frequencies for my IEM's I will create another zone and coordinate my IEM's there. I will move the IEM's back into the active zone (with all the other devices) for the show and recalculate the microphone/all other assignments leaving the IEM's alone. This gives IAS some space to calculate the devices I would like to keep the most robust, the IEM's.
I prefer this method to deleting devices, calculating what's there, adding deleted devices back because it saves time labeling the devices again. Hope this makes sense.
I use this method when it is early enough to do a racalc of the other freqs. Generally I do all my TX freqs first using tripples and sometimes increasing the spacing to 400kHz. I try to put them in their own TV bands and keep the mics and BTR RX away from them. Worst case I put the momentary BTR RX in their own zone and carefully watch them (or war game) to avoid intermod freqs which might get picked up by the BTRS. Since they are momentary I assume they will not make any IM themselves even if clustered. I try to keep a few channels open for future TX adds.
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I try to put them in their own TV bands and keep the mics and BTR RX away from them.
Which brings another tip to mind: If you select "Complete Master, Normal, FCC Report" in the "Print" menu and then do a print preview, you will get a list of all of your frequencies, in order from lowest to highest, with separation listed. This is very handy when you are reverse band planning by allocating each type-make-whatever into its own chunk of spectrum.
Screenshot below, of an off site coordination I did for a show in Barbados.