ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Jerome Malsack on May 19, 2017, 11:39:47 am

Title: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Jerome Malsack on May 19, 2017, 11:39:47 am
I saw this today and wanted to know what the community think and if some one has tried them.   

http://www.widigitalsystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=110_133&product_id=88

Yes it is 2.4 and  199 price.   100 ft operating range but that depends on location and conflicts.   


Was looking to use with Behringer x32 rack and ipad to allow for the IEM and talkback. 

Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: brian maddox on May 19, 2017, 04:57:07 pm
I saw this today and wanted to know what the community think and if some one has tried them.   

http://www.widigitalsystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=110_133&product_id=88

Yes it is 2.4 and  199 price.   100 ft operating range but that depends on location and conflicts.   


Was looking to use with Behringer x32 rack and ipad to allow for the IEM and talkback.

Wireless digital IEM is always about LATENCY.  And i see no specification on this as to what kind of latency it has.  IEM users can be thrown off by extremely low amounts of latency, especially singers.  Some performers can't even deal with the signal path going through a digital mixer.

I also hate using 2.4G gear as it always works great at sound check when the room is empty and then fails during the show when the room is full.  But your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Mike Sullivan on May 20, 2017, 12:31:52 am
I saw this today and wanted to know what the community think and if some one has tried them.   

http://www.widigitalsystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=110_133&product_id=88

Yes it is 2.4 and  199 price.   100 ft operating range but that depends on location and conflicts.   


Was looking to use with Behringer x32 rack and ipad to allow for the IEM and talkback.

If you're going to go digital wireless, get something from the Line6 Relay or XDv series.  There's a reason those units are $200 IMHO.  Not to mention the pure overload of 2.4GHz networks everywhere you go will surely mess with it majorly.
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Keith Broughton on May 20, 2017, 06:48:24 am
If you're going to go digital wireless, get something from the Line6 Relay or XDv series.  There's a reason those units are $200 IMHO.  Not to mention the pure overload of 2.4GHz networks everywhere you go will surely mess with it majorly.
Line6 gear is in the 2.4 GHz range also.
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Dave Bednarski on May 20, 2017, 09:31:24 am
Line6 gear is in the 2.4 GHz range also.

I've yet to do a job with Line6 2.4 and not have it snap crackle and pop!

Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Pete Erskine on May 20, 2017, 10:35:42 am
Wireless digital IEM is always about LATENCY. 

It would be good to find out the latency, I agree. However what is the wireless for, a guitar player or a singer?  Often instrument players want 5-10 ms of delay in their mixes to simulate the normal distance from their amps.

Latency up to 5ms (and for most as much as 30ms) is certainly acceptable to singers, especially if they don't know its there!  If they know that there is, "LATENCY" they might complain since it has gotten a bad rap.

for more Latency info:  https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/30323/when-does-audio-latency-matter-and-not-matter

On the other hand I NEVER recommend anything in 2.4... its too susceptible to audience cellphones pinging away to find wifi.

The newest crop of IEMs from Lectrosonics are amazing.  Connected via Dante the latency is 1ms.  Analog only 1.5.  Connecting digitally eliminates any output latency of the console as well.  Use a mic which is also Dante and total latency is probably way below 5 ms.
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Robert Lofgren on May 20, 2017, 02:32:37 pm
I've never had such issues and I've used it with up to 12 channels.

I've yet to do a job with Line6 2.4 and not have it snap crackle and pop!
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Keith Broughton on May 20, 2017, 02:34:42 pm


Latency up to 5ms (and for most as much as 30ms) is certainly acceptable to singers, especially if they don't know its there!
If you consider that the singer will hear their own voice through bone conductivity and the occlusion effect, combined with the delayed signal from the IEM, they could very well hear some kind of comb filtering effect at certain delay times.
Sub 30 ms? I can't say but I would not rule it out.
Instruments, not so much.
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Brian Jojade on May 20, 2017, 05:12:07 pm
There are many reasons that consumer grade stuff is a heck of a lot cheaper than pro grade.  Sometimes consumer grade stuff can get the job done, but eventually, the shortcomings become apparent.

For using as a talkback and mix monitor for an iPad mixed scenario, it's probably going to do fine.  When it decides to fail, that's not a showstopper moment.

I did try once using 2.4ghz headphones when mixing on an iPad.  Worked great during setup.  Worked great during practice.  Didn't work at all once the room was full.  Worked fine again once everyone left. :/
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: brian maddox on May 20, 2017, 06:11:49 pm
If you consider that the singer will hear their own voice through bone conductivity and the occlusion effect, combined with the delayed signal from the IEM, they could very well hear some kind of comb filtering effect at certain delay times.
Sub 30 ms? I can't say but I would not rule it out.
Instruments, not so much.

This is the issue.  And it is noticeable at remarkably low latency.

When i was singing with IEMs every week i found i had an easier time actually ADDING some latency to my vocal mic [i added it at the channel strip] to get the weird comb filtering into a less troublesome frequency range.  That and a bit more vocal level did the trick.
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Keith Broughton on May 21, 2017, 06:22:08 am
This is the issue.  And it is noticeable at remarkably low latency.

When i was singing with IEMs every week i found i had an easier time actually ADDING some latency to my vocal mic [i added it at the channel strip] to get the weird comb filtering into a less troublesome frequency range.  That and a bit more vocal level did the trick.
So there you have it, from an actual singer.
Interesting.
What kind of delay times were you adding?
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Jerome Malsack on May 21, 2017, 05:37:26 pm
Thanks all for the thoughts and input.
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: brian maddox on May 23, 2017, 12:56:32 pm
So there you have it, from an actual singer.
Interesting.
What kind of delay times were you adding?

like 5-7 ms.  took the total latency up from 3-4 ish to a little over 10.  I basically fiddled with it until i liked what i got...
Title: Re: Wireless IEM with wireless insturment or mic
Post by: Jean-Pierre Coetzee on May 26, 2017, 10:43:28 am
Where you using a digital system or an analogue system.

Also every person is different, I can definitely attest to people complaining they sound weird, literally 90% of my IEM issues with the band went away when we switched the IEMs to a digital console, literally nothing else changed.