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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => LAB Lounge FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Eric Dodson on February 25, 2009, 12:25:34 PM

Title: Drummers need this....
Post by: Eric Dodson on February 25, 2009, 12:25:34 PM
Hello Everyone.
About a year ago we did a show for the band Smashmouth. The drum tech was using Velcro pads to hold down the bass drum, high hat and cymbal stands.
At the end of the gig he handed us a pair of bass drum pads to use on future gigs. Since then, I've used them on several occasions and every time the drummer or drum tech says something along the lines of, "wow, what a great idea and great product for drummers". Then I get several versions of the story of how drummers solve the problem of drums not staying in place while they play.
Since its likely that we all have had occasions in the past using something as drastic as a cinder block or as simple as gaff tape to keep drums from walking down the stage when the drummer plays hard, and then having to reset the mics, I thought I would pass along this little secret weapon.
Just to be clear..... I am in no way affiliated with the company or product. Just a happy user of them. Also, it might also be good information to know that the drum tech for Smashmouth is also the inventor for the product. (nice guy too).....
Anyway, Not to sound like a sales guy, check em out... <http://www.standfirm.info>
Cheers.
Eric Dodson
<http://www.specialeventaudio.com>
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Adam Kane on February 25, 2009, 12:40:39 PM
Very cool.

I just played a gig a couple weeks ago where these would have come in handy.  For sure, I'd pay $30 to never have to mess with it again.

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Adam Sykes on February 25, 2009, 01:18:39 PM
Our drummer has a piece of 2x4 mounted on to the front of his carpet to hold the kick drum in place.  I've never noticed him have problems with anything else moving around and this guy hits as hard as anyone (too hard, if you ask me.)

Can't beat the 2x4  Smile

Adam
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Derek Shawver on February 25, 2009, 05:11:24 PM
Adam Sykes wrote on Wed, 25 February 2009 12:18

Our drummer has a piece of 2x4 mounted on to the front of his carpet to hold the kick drum in place.  I've never noticed him have problems with anything else moving around and this guy hits as hard as anyone (too hard, if you ask me.)

Can't beat the 2x4  Smile

Adam

Seems like that would look very tacky.  Rolling Eyes  I don't know if I'd want a piece of lumber in front of my kit. Anyway, I think this product looks very neat and useful.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Milt Hathaway on February 25, 2009, 05:20:04 PM
There are drum carpets out there with what appears to be a 2x4 molded into the carpet backing itself.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Kemper Watson on February 25, 2009, 08:15:31 PM
I see quite a few of these




http://www.vintagedrum.com/item/Cannon-Drummers-Rug-UP-UPDR
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Derek Shawver on February 25, 2009, 10:36:56 PM
Milt Hathaway wrote on Wed, 25 February 2009 16:20

There are drum carpets out there with what appears to be a 2x4 molded into the carpet backing itself.

I'm sure it looks just fine molded into the rug. I got the impression he was referring to his drummer just attaching an unpainted piece of wood to the rug and calling it a day.  
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Andy Peters on February 25, 2009, 10:56:48 PM
Derek Shawver wrote on Wed, 25 February 2009 20:36

Milt Hathaway wrote on Wed, 25 February 2009 16:20

There are drum carpets out there with what appears to be a 2x4 molded into the carpet backing itself.

I'm sure it looks just fine molded into the rug. I got the impression he was referring to his drummer just attaching an unpainted piece of wood to the rug and calling it a day.  


Depends on  whether the look of the set is more important than the drums staying in place. I see the 2x4-in-the-carpet thing all the time, and there's no shame in it.

-a
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Steve Milner on February 26, 2009, 03:32:58 AM
 These look awesome!! I am going to order some right away for a few guys I know...

I have one old school society big band that I work with where the drummer uses a crazy system. He plays a beautiful old Slingerland kit that he has owned since he was a teenager (he is in his 60's now) but instead of a carpet, he uses bungee cords. He uses the old multi-colored ones with the metal hook end. Each stand, along with each bass drum spur get a bungee attached back to his stool!!  Cool

By the time he is done getting everything in place it is a spiderweb under there! He starts off with them slacked out a bit, and when he really gets rocking you can see the kick springing back and forth to the beat. Of course, he has been doing this for decades without fail... maybe he is onto something!
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Mike McNany on February 26, 2009, 08:33:37 AM
Decent idea, prohibitive cost. $29.95 for a bass drum pair is a bit high and 14.95 each for each leg of a stand is prohibitive, in my book. And you need a rug that velcro will hold to, to start with.

There is a company that sold little U shaped plastic/nylon pieces you screw/bolt to a rug that is far cheaper, not as easy to use as the velcro idea, but also can be easily copied with some luan. Gig stops or rug stops, they were called.

The 2x4 idea has been around for a long time for a bass drum stop. If they paint it, or better yet wrap it in inexpensive carpet matting, it can look good.

Mike McNany
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Tom Roche on February 26, 2009, 09:05:45 AM
Mike McNany wrote on Thu, 26 February 2009 06:33

 And you need a rug that velcro will hold to, to start with.

Exactly.  And that's why the drummer should just turn the rubber feet on the end of the spurs to expose the spikes.  In all my years playing I've never once had a problem with my kit moving when it sat on carpet.  Non-carpeted floor?  Buy one of those small 5x7 rugs from Home Depot or visit a local carpet shop for left-overs.  It'll still be far cheaper than buying a handful of these velcro pads.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: J. Greg Thomas on February 26, 2009, 11:07:56 AM
I don't know about other instruments, but drumming seems to have lots of products offering solutions to problems that don't really exist.

Never had a problem with kick drum creeping on carpet. Cymbal stand creep may be the sign of a larger problem.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: John Wood on February 26, 2009, 01:00:22 PM
Re: Drummers need this.... Thu, 26 February 2009 09:05  
Tom Roche  

Mike McNany wrote on Thu, 26 February 2009 06:33

And you need a rug that velcro will hold to, to start with.


Exactly. And that's why the drummer should just turn the rubber feet on the end of the spurs to expose the spikes. In all my years playing I've never once had a problem with my kit moving when it sat on carpet. Non-carpeted floor? Buy one of those small 5x7 rugs from Home Depot or visit a local carpet shop for left-overs. It'll still be far cheaper than buying a handful of these velcro pads.  

+1.  I also don't understand why a cymbal stand (excluding hi-hats) would creep if its already on carpet...  And why cover up a spur when the whole idea is for it to dig in and grip?

A piece of velcro on the bottom of kick and hi-hat pedals usually works well.

John
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Eric Dodson on February 26, 2009, 01:17:18 PM
I feel like I should expand on this a little...
We are a full production house in southern California and we get the chance to work with several different types of acts. Jazz, Funk, Rock, Classical, Traditional, ect... Sometimes we provide backline, sometimes not. Sometimes the drummer for the act has a great kit with all the hardware in great order, sometimes not. Sometimes there is a carpeted drum riser, sometimes not.
I'm a big believer in have all kinds of tools in my "proverbial" tool box. It can be XLR turnarounds or Velcro drum pads. Having the right tool or part for the job quickly within reach is priceless.
For Example, about two weeks ago I was running monitors and stage setup for a 4 day jazz show. One of the drummers came to me and asked me for some gaff tape to keep his high hat and bass drum from moving down stage. Now this a "famous in the Jazz world" drummer sponsored by Remo Drums. I just said while handing him the drum pads, will these work? He took a good look at them, paused, and said, "where did you get these?. This is the perfect solution, thanks". He was my friend for the next few days on the show. Later on I was to find out that this particular drummer is in charge of several other shows that need production and now we are in a dialog with him about providing production for those shows. (Having the right tool for the job at the right time can be priceless....)
Now; I guess I shouldn't say that every drummer needs this product because most drummers either have a carpet, have spurs, and/or rubber pads under all the stands to keep them from walking down stage. But; every once in a while I have to reach into my work box and grab a solution to the problem of keeping the drums in place because for whatever reason the drummer just didn't have his kit all together tight. Heck, sometimes in situations when we have to remove the drum kit after sound check, I leave the pads in place on stage as a marker so they go in exactly the same place....
For most of us here on the LAB, as audio production service providers, (it's my opinion) that having at least a pair of bass drum pads can come in very handy and can make you look that much for valuable to whoever is paying your bill for your services.
Cheers.
Eric Dodson
<http://www.specialeventaudio.com>
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Derek Shawver on February 26, 2009, 05:20:12 PM
Tom Roche wrote on Thu, 26 February 2009 08:05

that's why the drummer should just turn the rubber feet on the end of the spurs to expose the spikes.


J. Greg Thomas wrote on Thu, 26 February 2009 10:07

I don't know about other instruments, but drumming seems to have lots of products offering solutions to problems that don't really exist.

Never had a problem with kick drum creeping on carpet.

I have the spikes very exposed on the spurrs of my kick drum and it still moves forward. It's a problem that is definatly possible and does exist even when the kit and hardware are set up correctly. My RMV kick drum is very light and I'm a powerful player so the spurrs don't always do their job. I think this product is totally justifiable with the exception of the price Rolling Eyes  .
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: James Babcock on February 26, 2009, 11:31:11 PM
I am a drummer and a pretty heavy player. I have the hook side of some industrial velcro strips on my kick and hi-hat pedals, they never go anywhere. If you are using any modern kick pedal there is plenty of flat real estate on the bottom of the pedal for some good strong velcro. It's the pedal that we are stomping on.......why not stop IT from moving? Seems to work well for me!

Rock on,
James
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Chris Vice on March 23, 2009, 10:45:27 AM
Long, long time lurker here and rare poster (mostly due to my employment with a major manufacturer of pro audio products). But I just read this and thought I would comment, as a working drummer myself. I think if the kick and hi-hats are creeping that bad, it's a matter of bad technique on the part of the drummer! I play fairly hard too sometimes, but never have a problem with creep if I have the spike tips of the kick spurs into the carpet. And it's just crazy to be stomping on the hat so hard to make it creep, especially again, if it's sitting on carpet too. And if a drummer IS stomping that hard, they should position the pedals so they aren't so far out in front of them such that they are pushing them forward, but more of a top-down angle.

But of course, there's nothing that a sound guy can do about bad technique on the part of the drummer, so...maybe this isn't a bad idea if it helps. I just know that I can't imagine ever needing this or any other method of keeping my kit in place other than my carpet and kick spurs.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Derek Shawver on March 23, 2009, 07:34:00 PM
Chris Vice wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 09:45

I think if the kick and hi-hats are creeping that bad, it's a matter of bad technique on the part of the drummer! I play fairly hard too sometimes, but never have a problem with creep if I have the spike tips of the kick spurs into the carpet. And it's just crazy to be stomping on the hat so hard to make it creep, especially again, if it's sitting on carpet too. And if a drummer IS stomping that hard, they should position the pedals so they aren't so far out in front of them such that they are pushing them forward, but more of a top-down angle.


Cheers.

I have my pedals positioned closely to me. The problem isn't my foot pushing the kick drum forward, it is the force of the beater striking the head of the kick drum that pushes the kick drum forward. No matter how tight I may have my pedal to the rim of the drum, it still manages to get away from me. I usually have to retighten the pedal to the rim half way through the night. It's not a matter of poor technique. If I'm playing with my blues band and we're playing a slow blues tune, I'll play heal down on the kick but if I'm playing with my rock band, it's the ball of my foot and leg lifted.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Jordan Wolf on March 23, 2009, 07:38:31 PM
Maybe you can put a lock washer or two on the bolt that tightens the clamp for your pedal.  That would keep tension on the clamp and could keep it from slipping off.  Lock washers aren't pricey, so I think it's worth a try.
Title: Re: Drummers need this....
Post by: Derek Shawver on March 23, 2009, 07:52:51 PM
Jordan Wolf wrote on Mon, 23 March 2009 18:38

Maybe you can put a lock washer or two on the bolt that tightens the clamp for your pedal.  That would keep tension on the clamp and could keep it from slipping off.  Lock washers aren't pricey, so I think it's worth a try.

Hmm, that's a thought. I'll give it a try. Smile