ProSoundWeb Community
Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => DJ Forum => Topic started by: Marjan Milosevic on January 10, 2011, 07:56:50 AM
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A dj section? We dont need dj's hanging around here!
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A dj section? We dont need dj's hanging around here!
I applauded this addition since it has potential to keep DJ conversations and questions out of the LAB, Lounge and Basement.
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A dj section? We dont need dj's hanging around here!
In absolute agreement. This is guaranteed to be a problem.
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A dj section? We dont need dj's hanging around here!
It will be like going to the zoo-to stare at the animals and what they "feed" on.
This way we can keep them all together.
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Look at it this way, we can educate the DJ's as to the errors of their ways.
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I've been around many DJ's who know what they're doing. I do believe many of them are very passionate about pro audio, but have limited guidance. I welcome this addition!
It's always been a bit discouraging to see how fellow engineers treat DJ's. Just remember, we all asked stupid questions at one point in our career and most of us still do.....
The DJ world of sound is very different than ours an many ways. We're now seeing hi quality sound systems that are designed for electronic music specifically, and they're run by people who know what they're doing......
My 2 cents
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Of course I'm trying to understand DJ, Lighting and ProAV being part of "Sound Reinforcement" and "Live Sound" when Church Sound is not. Maybe the general organization could be a bit better.
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A dj section? We dont need dj's hanging around here!
I agree and disagree... we don't need DJs hanging around the LAB forums. But they show up anyway. A dedicated forum creates a place to move those DJ posts.
Nobody HAS to read or post in the DJ section if they don't want. If you like DJs and want to educate them, this is a good place to do it. If you don't, just don't read it!
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Well, I guess if it keeps them from posting in the Lab or lounge, then fair enough. However there does seem to be plenty of specialist DJ forums about so whether we should encourage DJs to post here by setting up a dedicated DJ area is somthing i'm not so sure about...
Just my opinion.
Adam
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Well, I guess if it keeps them from posting in the Lab or lounge, then fair enough. However there does seem to be plenty of specialist DJ forums about so whether we should encourage DJs to post here by setting up a dedicated DJ area is somthing i'm not so sure about...
Just my opinion.
Adam
That's like saying there are also plenty of specialist audio forums around the web, why encourage soundfolks to post here?
We placed a DJ forum here for a few reasons.
The first is that many audio folks actually do some type of DJing either as a side job to their main business, or as a part of their main business, or they work with a DJ now and again. Quite a few members of PSW do DJing as a part of their business, Myself now included. Recently I have added DJing for corporate parties as I was tired of watching my clients hire a separate DJ company for the dance portion after the event. Since I could not tear down my stuff until the DJ stopped and the event was over, I figured as long as I am at the gig, I might as well make the extra bucks and play some music.
The second reason was we got tired of all the bitching on the live sound forums as soon as a DJ asked for advice. Labsters would say "There are tons of DJ forums on the web, go over to one and leave us live sound guys alone". The problem was that the other DJ forums were full of DJs with little to no real knowledge of audio, electronics, acoustics, electricity, physics, business, etc so a DJ wanting to talk tech and get some real answers and knowledge had nowhere to go (until now that is!)
Last, we started the forum because one of the mods here at PSW told me he has a "vinyl fetish" I assumed he was talking about records! hehehehe ::)
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A dj section? We dont need dj's hanging around here!
Years ago, when there was quite a bit of debate about how DJs should or should not be allowed to participate, the rule was "anything up to the turntable or other playback device". The intention was to help with the loudspeaker / amplifier setup. Why should DJs looking for help in earnest be treated differently from first time weekend warrior having the same questions?
Over the years it got a little lax, and in fact, there have been questions about playback. I believe in order to make this work, the old rule needs vigorous enforcement, i.e. answer questions up to the playback system, including the DJ mixer.
There are plenty of places they get opinions about CDJ, Traktor, Ableton, or whatever but if it is confined strictly to SR, then we'll help them out if they want to hear the truth.
And yes, hopefully it will keep them out of the other forums.
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I agree and disagree... we don't need DJs hanging around the LAB forums. But they show up anyway. A dedicated forum creates a place to move those DJ posts.
Nobody HAS to read or post in the DJ section if they don't want. If you like DJs and want to educate them, this is a good place to do it. If you don't, just don't read it!
We have a winner!
Don't like it? Don't visit the forum. It's _really_ easy.
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Well, I started out as a DJ but now do a lot more SR than DJing. SInce DJing was my start my 2 best clients are DJs and a distant third is a 3 person group.
Actually I have learned a lot from my DJ client about SR and thanks to him I started with SR.
So I do appreciate that there is a DJ forum now
Thanks
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Well, I started out as a DJ but now do a lot more SR than DJing. SInce DJing was my start my 2 best clients are DJs and a distant third is a 3 person group.
Actually I have learned a lot from my DJ client about SR and thanks to him I started with SR.
So I do appreciate that there is a DJ forum now
Thanks
I do quite a bit of work with DJs also, and welcome a place to send them for some edumacation!
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I do quite a bit of work with DJs also, and welcome a place to send them for some edumacation!
Thanks Don, that's the idea.
We welcome their participation, but do not wish for it to bleed over into the other forums. I'm pretty sure we can round up enough expertise here to take care of them.
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Years ago, when there was quite a bit of debate about how DJs should or should not be allowed to participate, the rule was "anything up to the turntable or other playback device". The intention was to help with the loudspeaker / amplifier setup. Why should DJs looking for help in earnest be treated differently from first time weekend warrior having the same questions?
Over the years it got a little lax, and in fact, there have been questions about playback. I believe in order to make this work, the old rule needs vigorous enforcement, i.e. answer questions up to the playback system, including the DJ mixer.
There are plenty of places they get opinions about CDJ, Traktor, Ableton, or whatever but if it is confined strictly to SR, then we'll help them out if they want to hear the truth.
And yes, hopefully it will keep them out of the other forums.
I think this is a great idea that should work out just fine.
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I think this is a great idea that should work out just fine.
I agree. I never quite understood the venomous anti DJ sentiments some share on here. Most of them are still asking SR related questions. Not to say that I haven't dealt with my share of idiot DJ's, I certainly have. But I'd say that the ratio of useless dipshit noisemaker DJ's to pro DJ's, and everything in between, is roughly the same as it is for musos and fellow sound guys. In my experience anyway.
So the quotes on this new software don't show the previous quotes or what? When I quoted Bob I meant to get Doug's in there as well.
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Great idea, hoping to learn a little more about Ableton Live. Very cool program, and I feel I've only scratched the surface (pardon the unintended pun)
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I like the concept of a DJ forum, but I'm not sure that it should be part of the "Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals" category in the forum listings. One could argue the 'live sound' aspect but it's not really 'sound reinforcement'. DJ applications do not usually include the multiple live mics, stage monitoring, etc. that are major components of typical live sound reinforcement applications. Of course the same could be said for Pro AV and lighting. Maybe all three of those could create a separate related but not sound reinforcement category.
Another reason for suggesting this division is that currently the Road Test, Product Reviews and Basement are all part of "Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals" and at least for the Road Test and Product Reviews forums it seems it might be better to have separate, dedicated sections for the DJ/Lighting/Pro AV and the R/E/P categories.
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Hey, if your Karma gets too lopsided, like too positive, coming to the DJ forum gives you a chance to even it out...
( are we to enter those characters below for every post? really? holy f'in wow... first time it did not match.... GREAT )
The letters you typed don't match the letters that were shown in the picture. x 3
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I am a mobile DJ, and I was on the old forum for years.
Took some heat initially, but didn't let it get to me.
I loved all the info and soaked up as much I could.
I come "hear", because of the knowledge and expertise on sound reinforcement.
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Look forward to more great tips/tricks.
Thanks guys!
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It's a great addition to the forums.
Most SR guys bitch about the lighting guy, yet we have a place for them to chat.
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I'm a DJ who also does live sound, used to do sound for live/live-to-tape television, and my day job is teaching video production. Chances are if there's a forum on here, I can relate to it in some way. I haven't done large gigs or any studio work, though.
I've also seen plenty of thick-headed DJ's who ride their levels in the red, run their wireless mics hot etc etc.. I've actually used digital room correction at some DJ gigs. :)
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I'm a DJ who also does live sound, used to do sound for live/live-to-tape television, and my day job is teaching video production. Chances are if there's a forum on here, I can relate to it in some way. I haven't done large gigs or any studio work, though.
I've also seen plenty of thick-headed DJ's who ride their levels in the red, run their wireless mics hot etc etc.. I've actually used digital room correction at some DJ gigs. :)
Please go to your profile and put your full name in the "Name" field.
Thanks.
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Well then most of the band have their own gear so why dont we make a guitar forum, drummer forum and so on.... because they are giutar players (or any other instrument) but also do sound?
I even know a guy that own a grocery shop bu talso do a sound systems. Let as make a grocery shop forum too.
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I've actually used digital room correction at some DJ gigs. :)
Perhaps this is an example of where this forum can help as it has often been discussed in the LAB and LAB Lounge that you can adjust a system to account for some aspects of the environment but you can't actually adjust or change the environment via a system processor.
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I think that the DJ section is a good idea, as many mobile DJs have a great need for this type of info, but many of the DJ-specific forums focus on the playback device/software/current music/etc., with very little information available for those who are interested in the SR side of the equation.
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Chill. It's not like athe DJ is the anti-Christ. Give them a home.
I've always been very happy to tell folks where to go.
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I think that the DJ section is a good idea, as many mobile DJs have a great need for this type of info, but many of the DJ-specific forums focus on the playback device/software/current music/etc., with very little information available for those who are interested in the SR side of the equation.
Honestly there are plenty of places where someone can go to learn how to use a turntable, but if nothing else this forum will give the DJ who's not an expert in sound reinforcement a place to go where they can ask silly questions about how to use their psychoacoustic processor to ruin a perfectly good sound system. Surely someone will be helpful and point them in the right direction and we won't later be tortured when our cousin gets married and we have to hang out around their sound system all night of the wedding.
Plus those of us that want to discuss how to deal with DJ/EDM artists in a large-scale professional setting get a place to talk shop besides the Basement...
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I moderate the largest and most active gear boards for DJs (DJChat.com). There are about a dozen or so members (out of ~70K) that really know their audio stuff and could make useful contributions to the LAB or Lounge. There are many more that have grown well beyond the regular DJ rig and should be coming here for advice.
I like the distinction that some have made about keeping this forum to just the PA side of DJing. The world doesn't need another forum to discuss Abelton, Serato, VDJ, MegaSeg, Traktor, Torq, etc.
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I think it is a great idea for the DJs to contribute to this Forum.
At the High End, A lot of the same things are happening,
(Minus most of the Drama)
Just my thoughts.
Regards, John
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Well I've been a DJ since '97 and after building my own rig to power my club night I've been an engineer by default since 2002
I've been registered on the old board since 2004 and a union card touting freelancer since 2007
Am I welcome here or not?
The point is I, like a lot before and after me, found my way here as I was interested in the technical side of the matter because I wanted to improve the sound I delivered to my punters
I recognised that would take knowledge to accomplish and it was knowledge I didn't have
So I ask you, if you wanted to learn about Jewellery would you go to a Carpenter?
No of course you wouldn't and similarly I wouldn't want to take advice on sound from people who haven't got a proven track record which is why I ended up on the LAB where all you pros hang out
What I have trouble with is the vitriol that is spouted towards DJ's when in essence they are just another musician
Whilst they might not physically make the notes mixing to records together in a musical style is a craft that has to be learnt and honed if they are to achieve the seamless flow of music that gets a crowd moving
There are just as many poor guitarists/vocalists/drummers out there who don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to the technical side yet they never seem to get the daggers drawn so quickly compared to DJ's
It's an attitude that sucks big time if I'm being honest and does nothing for the 'professional' side this board claims to have
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A dj section? We dont need dj's hanging around here!
Why, such a friendly welcome!
Or were you just joking?
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Most of us, (if not all of us) think of a dj as a person who dont have a clue about the system he uses and keep pushing his small dj mixer up to the maximum level when it becomes paint full to listen to the system.
No mater how many times i tried to explain to a DJ not to do that, they refuse to learn and keep pushing and pushing.
That is why!
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Marjan,
I well familiar with the stereotype you speak of. I wouldn't be moderating the gear forums over at DJchat.com for the last seven years if they were all like that. Some really want to understand. Some really care about sound quality. There are enough of them to keep me engaged.
I may be a DJ. However, I am also an EE and an active AES member. I am not the only one either.
BTW, in the last week there were two threads on my board from DJs using Meyer rigs. One was only 16 years old! He already knew about comb filtering due to speaker placement.
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Hello François, its an honor to have you here. My 2nd cousin Larry DJ'd with you at the garage, you guys opened my eyes to music. Larry used to sneak me inside and I would watch the chemistry you guys had with the crowd. I extend you a warm welcome here.
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Most of us, (if not all of us) think of a dj as a person who dont have a clue about the system he uses and keep pushing his small dj mixer up to the maximum level when it becomes paint full to listen to the system. No mater how many times i tried to explain to a DJ not to do that, they refuse to learn and keep pushing and pushing. That is why!
I fail to see where it would be negative to discuss these issues rationally with some of the people in question, and engage in the same the sort of dialog on here that might be much harder to do while in the middle of a gig.
Come to think of it, I wonder if there might have somehow been a reason why there was a skit in the movie 'Spinal Tap' made about the amp going to 11, or did that get featured in the movie totally by accident?
Might it not be more of a fair thing to say that those who are on stage generally tend to want to push things far more than the person sitting at FOH whose job is not to perform and get the crowd excited, but to keep things sounding clean, complying with sound ordinance levels and not blow too many amps and speakers in the process?
Since you appear to have a great deal of experience, I fail to understand why you would see it as a negative thing to use forums such as this one to help educate those in need of understanding about the fundamentals of what it takes to make a sound system sing. Obviously if they keep getting booked for gigs time and time again, there must be something they do which they in fact have a clue about, and which is worthwhile enough that the promoters are willing to then in turn hire the services of sound reinforcement companies for those shows. Unless you are implying that it's the promoters who are completely insane, or perhaps the audiences themselves for wanting to pay to see them perform.
History is ripe with examples of certain artists gratuitously abusing gear far more than what you describe, like what Hendrix and Pete Townsend did on stage with their guitars and amps, and that becoming the stuff of legends. Just as well, I can think of a number of legendary cases of stage-induced deafness from players who just kept going beyond too loud for so long. What makes them any better then?
There are a lots cheap stereotypes that can be made about anyone in any profession, which is fine if it makes you feel better doing so. Personally, I'd wager that a majority of those who play electric on stage go far too loud, regardless of the style of music or types of performers involved. (not including folk / acapella / classical)
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This can be a good things and everyone can potentially benefit. However, the forum is titled simply "DJ Forum" so I think the concern may be how to keep this forum unique and different from the already existing forums serving the DJ community.
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First of all i dont want to offend anyone. My opinion is just mine and that is it.
Now how do i see this.
If we here talk about wedding DJ's that also provide a gear then ok, i have no problem with that.
But then again the topic is not a DJ gear here. DJ gear is turntables, cd players, laptops and a DJ mixer.
We rarely know shit about that to be honest. Yes we know how to connect it and make it work. Not so much of how to use it. Especially tractor software, serato units and so on.
We provide the sound equipment and that is not a DJ gear.
Yes i have a lot of experience with some of the biggest names. They have no clue about the sound system. They are artists like any other. You name it, singer, guitar player .....
So i dont see a place here for a DJ forum in that context.
No sound system is a DJ sound system.
Can we have a Rock&Roll section too?
Applying the system for the given genre of music does not make it a DJ system.
I hope i make my self clear enough. English is not my native language so sometimes i do have difficulties expressing my self.
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Marjan -
If the existence of a DJ forum here bothers you, just remove it from your membergroup and forget about it.
That is my best advice.
All the best.
-doug
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Cant really see the problem with the DJ forum....
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Marjan -
If the existence of a DJ forum here bothers you, just remove it from your membergroup and forget about it.
That is my best advice.
All the best.
-doug
Unfortunately I didn't make the membergroups that granular, although I could. I just don't see the point. Anyone who doesn't want to read them is fre to not read them.
I think this is enough about why we should or shouldn't have a DJ forum. If you have something to post in an applicable topic, please post it. This thread is done.
Mac
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I love this topic! We all talk about the general public in some dispareging way forgetting that we are also the public! Every industry has its 'us and them' ie sound v lampies etc so its not surprising that DJs get the scowl of disapproval as red lighting numpties! However generalization is a dangerous thing. I'm + 1 on Dave and Craig's comments, having a section for DJ's who have sought out this community for advice means they are already thinking on a higher level technically and that is a good move and it does not mess up the Pro forum for the big guys. I started out in broadcast presentation and then moved into technical with a lot of help and advice from broadcast engineers who gave me the time of day which eventually got me to where I am now owning my own Midas Yamaha and d&b kit BUT I still DJ and why not if you have it use it!
The times I have been lectured too regarding levels/eq by the sound guy on my arrival at a venue where I'm just presenting makes me smile every time because he simply assumes I'm a level devil idiot,I once had to set up our full 30 box line array for some outside sound while another sound company did the band inside the marquee where I had also been asked to DJ the final part of the evening. He had no idea that I was the sound guy for the outside kit and straightaway after being introduced gave me the spiel on levels, his face was a picture when he walked over to our set up later to discover who was sitting behind the desk!
Saying that when I am the 'sound guy' I often find myself falling into the same trap of assuming the same prejudice about the DJ and yes many do live up to their reputation but its good to understand another side to the business. DJ's probably think of sound guys as grumpy unwashed know it alls with attitude.....surely not! DJ are no different to musicians who we try ;) our best to service despite many of them being very ignorant on most matters unless it involves them and their instrument Doh! another generalization.
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Forum is a great idea - and having been a DJ since about 1984 I've encountered a lot of DJs who have no idea what they're doing technically, but I've also encountered a lot of PA rental companies, FOH engineers, and other persons who should know better who were just as daft.
And like Jonathon above, I am also an EE (MS and an ABD PhD) and was an AES and IEEE member before my career shifted full time into the music business, so I would wager I understand many of the technical and scientific issues as well as or better than many of the "SR only" people here.
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First of all i dont want to offend anyone. My opinion is just mine and that is it.
Now how do i see this.
If we here talk about wedding DJ's that also provide a gear then ok, i have no problem with that.
But then again the topic is not a DJ gear here. DJ gear is turntables, cd players, laptops and a DJ mixer.
We rarely know shit about that to be honest. Yes we know how to connect it and make it work. Not so much of how to use it. Especially tractor software, serato units and so on.
We provide the sound equipment and that is not a DJ gear.
I dont think it is fair to consider dj equipment like any other backline device. A cd player will always make the same sound, no matter who presses play, whereas every instrument amp will be tweaked differently, and lets not get started about electric or acoustic instruments. The data or vinyl material a dj shows up is the foundation of their sound, not a crafted device.
Why shouldnt we know the basic functions of how any of the gear works? Is it any different than providing a digital console or analog side rack? Sure, the performer or mixing person should know what they are using, but ours is a service industry, and what promoter wouldnt be better pleased by a technician that in a pinch knows the right setting to make things work?
Should technicians be experts in powerpoint? No, but they should be able to get the damn presentation running if doing corporate work (when no video crew is necessary, and a vidiot happened to help us out configuring software for some intellivox the other week..)
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Responding to Marjan - When I DJ, I consider the PA gear as an extension of me just like the rest of the DJ gear. All of it together is just another musical instrument...
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I see this place as a good thing. Most of my Events are DJ events. But I have cut my teeth on really educating and absorbing whats said on PSW. I am here because I want to learn, and hopefully this will give me a place to go with the sound questions that don't fit into the "big boy" categories but are over the heads of some other forums. I say start a picture thread to see what it is we're dealing with.
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lol this still going on lol
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Interesting how this is going on; allot of PA bigots out there.
Sound reenforcement is sound reenforcement.
I have an old style PA to DJ with. I use lollypop speakers for backfill when I do a decent sized venue. My lights are not on a bridge truss over my table, they are on 4 'trees' in the corners of the dance area controlled by DMX.
My main speakers are an OLD design, Altec Voice of the Theater A7s with modern drivers.
Granted, it takes allot of work, prep and elbow grease, but the sound is very good.
If I were a pro (doing this for a living instead of an expensive hobby), I'd have some arrays in the front instead my old style A7's.
Proper EQ, speaker placement, timing of speakers, crossovers, etc... are part of the fun.
Just my 2 cents.
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Last, we started the forum because one of the mods here at PSW told me he has a "vinyl fetish" I assumed he was talking about records! hehehehe ::)
Vinyl rules!
Long live the Technics 1200 8)
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These forums should be for sound men only. We need noone here that know about guitars, basses, drums, keyboards or anything musical. The sound man's job is to make it louder. We do not need to know why these "musicians" like certain tones on their instruments. Their tone is completely up to us. We will cut frequencies whenever we want. We certainly know more than any musician. After all, our craft could be learned in minutes, even up to weeks, and they seem to take forever to learn their crafts. Musicians are slow learners.
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I moderate the largest and most active gear boards for DJs (DJChat.com). There are about a dozen or so members (out of ~70K) that really know their audio stuff and could make useful contributions to the LAB or Lounge. There are many more that have grown well beyond the regular DJ rig and should be coming here for advice.
That would be me. Actually as a 20 year DJ, both Mobile/Club. I found this forum, not because of the DJ section. I actually came across it due to the lighting section. I am expanding beyond DJing, and starting to dip my toes into production lighting. I have also "worked" for a large lighting manufacturer for about a decade, and I am moving on to help a newer smaller lighting company grow.
To the OP, and all those crying about the DJ section, I agree if you don't want to read the posts, then don't read them. It's pretty simple, eh? But there are a few DJ's that could actually be useful here on PSW, and there are many more who could really use the knowledge and experience of the experts that are here.
I for one love to grow and learn. What are you afraid of? Not all DJ's are cheesy guys running Behringer speakers off of a laptop. Some people actually have a passion for quality, and here they can learn and grow, as I have been. Soaking in the knowledge from the information that can be found here.
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These forums should be for sound men only. We need noone here that know about guitars, basses, drums, keyboards or anything musical. The sound man's job is to make it louder. We do not need to know why these "musicians" like certain tones on their instruments. Their tone is completely up to us. We will cut frequencies whenever we want. We certainly know more than any musician. After all, our craft could be learned in minutes, even up to weeks, and they seem to take forever to learn their crafts. Musicians are slow learners.
WOW. Nice customer service and understanding of what the role of the sound person is.
Please post your location and company name so I can tell all my friends to not use your services.
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WOW. Nice customer service and understanding of what the role of the sound person is.
Please post your location and company name so I can tell all my friends to not use your services.
I think he forgot the <sarcasm> tags.
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I think he forgot the <sarcasm> tags.
I hope so. I've met a few folks in my travels who do have that attitude. Those aren't fun days.
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Of course it was meant to be sarcastic. But, I've read that attitude here too many times. You know who you are.