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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => HistoryOfConcertSound.org => Topic started by: Dave Garoutte on June 19, 2020, 11:19:27 am

Title: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 19, 2020, 11:19:27 am
Just saw this on youtube.
Thought you all might be interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFX392pNeiA
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Mike Caldwell on June 19, 2020, 08:51:20 pm
Thanks for the link.

If that WE stuff is all original there's several thousand dollars worth of equipment in that
video and that does not include the stereo front end equipment!
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on June 19, 2020, 10:06:19 pm
My father worked at WE back in the day...

JR
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Brian Jojade on June 20, 2020, 12:49:12 am
3 watts!!!  wow.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Tim Hite on June 21, 2020, 11:39:09 pm
3 watts!!!  wow.

Wonder if those adjust for inflation. . .
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 22, 2020, 08:04:15 am
Wonder if those adjust for inflation. . .

Likely DEflated, for TRUTH.....
Wasn't it back in the 70's that Gene Cerwinsky (Cerwin-Vega) said "What the world needs is a perfect 1 watt amplifier"

Chris.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Nathan Riddle on June 22, 2020, 09:33:29 am
Looks like a J7 with wings.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Rick Earl on June 22, 2020, 10:00:17 am
Just saw this on youtube.
Thought you all might be interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFX392pNeiA

Most if not all were not owned by the theatres, they were leased from Western Electric.  There is a set kicking around that were not completely destroyed and a friend of mine reassembled them, pretty impressive in person.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Ivan Beaver on June 22, 2020, 04:57:19 pm
Wonder if those adjust for inflation. . .
Back then the watts were different.  They were all day, all night, continuous.  not burst tones with dynamic range associated.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Ivan Beaver on June 22, 2020, 04:58:36 pm
Likely DEflated, for TRUTH.....
Wasn't it back in the 70's that Gene Cerwinsky (Cerwin-Vega) said "What the world needs is a perfect 1 watt amplifier"

Chris.
It was said many years ago by a wise man, what we need is a 100 watt continuous amplifier that can pass 10,000 watt peaks (20dB).  For single channel, we are not there yet, on the peak side anyway.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Keith Broughton on June 23, 2020, 07:40:40 am
It was said many years ago by a wise man, what we need is a 100 watt continuous amplifier that can pass 10,000 watt peaks (20dB).  For single channel, we are not there yet, on the peak side anyway.
I'm sure I saw specs for a Pyramid car audio amp that would do that AND double as a welder! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on June 23, 2020, 09:46:37 am
It was said many years ago by a wise man, what we need is a 100 watt continuous amplifier that can pass 10,000 watt peaks (20dB).  For single channel, we are not there yet, on the peak side anyway.
Back in the 80s I designed a power amp that exhibited an above average crest factor. The AMR (Peavey) PMA70+ would deliver 2x35W continuous, 2x60W for something like 15-30 seconds, and >2x100W for momentary peaks...  As expected it sounded more like an 100W amp than 35W reproducing full range music.

I had grand plans of designing a full line of higher power amps ranging up to kW of peak power, but sadly the cost calculus was not that attractive. To deliver kW peak power using conventional bipolar output devices was too close to the cost of the more continuous power implementation (the small savings in heat sink and power transformer was not that compelling.)

Now using class D amplifiers you can do a similar exercise but it amounts to derating a higher output power amplifier, with perhaps an undersized duty cycle power supply.
 
JR

PS: For very narrow transient peaks I am not convinced that clean (unclipped) reproduction is that noticeable of a benefit. So IMO several dB of that wise man's headroom could be a waste of money.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: John Fruits on June 26, 2020, 05:58:19 pm
Bob Foreman,  who among other things has blogged  extensively about the Atlanta Fox Theater has now posted a link to:
Peter Clark (https://peterclarkinc.blogspot.com/2020/06/peter-clark-and-radio-city-music-hall.html)
It includes a few photos of WE gear, including a grainy BW image of the WE 16-A shallow sound horns, and a picture of the Atlanta Fox Movietone WE speaker lift.
EDIT: Oh and it seems that WE also invented the "god mike" for S.L. "Roxy" Rothefel for use at the FOH rehearsal desk.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Dan Mortensen on July 04, 2020, 12:54:01 am
Bob Foreman,  who among other things has blogged  extensively about the Atlanta Fox Theater has now posted a link to:
Peter Clark (https://peterclarkinc.blogspot.com/2020/06/peter-clark-and-radio-city-music-hall.html)
It includes a few photos of WE gear, including a grainy BW image of the WE 16-A shallow sound horns, and a picture of the Atlanta Fox Movietone WE speaker lift.
EDIT: Oh and it seems that WE also invented the "god mike" for S.L. "Roxy" Rothefel for use at the FOH rehearsal desk.

That is really a terrific website, thanks for posting the link!

There's a lot of historical firsts from that company. I hope the Daily News globe is still visible to passers-by in their lobby on 42nd St.; it was fun to be in its presence, and it's cool that Clark's company built it.

The building that they were in (variously 534-538-542 W. 30th St.) is still there, right where the High Line Park turns towards the West at 30th St.

For those who don't know, the High Line was an abandoned elevated rail line until it was transformed with incredible attention to detail and a budget to match into a phenomenal elevated linear park, and the (former?) Clark building is still there and abuts the rail line/park, which in fact cuts off the building's NW corner. It's easy to imagine that this company which built very heavy theatrical building pieces used the railroad, which literally stopped at or in the building, to ship its pieces to the four corners of the world.

Thanks again for that wonderful link which tells a fascinating story.
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: John Fruits on July 04, 2020, 04:33:52 pm
If anyone is interested, more Bob Foreman links:
https://foxfact.blogspot.com/search/label/INDEX
It seems that it is sort of a treasure hunt to locate some pages, for instance this mostly takes you to the blog about the 1932 Center Theatre which was built about the same time as RCMH.
But at the top of that page is the "Index of Catalogs" link
1932 Center Theatre (https://vintagetheatrecatalogs.blogspot.com/2016/02/1932-center-theatre-switchboard.html).
Title: Re: Well, Cinema sound
Post by: Tim McCulloch on July 14, 2020, 12:27:14 am
If anyone is interested, more Bob Foreman links:
https://foxfact.blogspot.com/search/label/INDEX
It seems that it is sort of a treasure hunt to locate some pages, for instance this mostly takes you to the blog about the 1932 Center Theatre which was built about the same time as RCMH.
But at the top of that page is the "Index of Catalogs" link
1932 Center Theatre (https://vintagetheatrecatalogs.blogspot.com/2016/02/1932-center-theatre-switchboard.html).

Bob gets around.  Lots of stuff on his sites, you just have to think like he does to find specific stuff.