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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => HistoryOfConcertSound.org => Topic started by: MikeHarris on April 06, 2020, 05:08:43 am

Title: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 06, 2020, 05:08:43 am
Anyone have pics of the custom live API console Jerry Cameron built for ZZ ?
24 X 8.  As dealer we provided mic pre/eq/faders/summing modules..lots of 2520s.
It replaced a Tascam (supply horror emoji)
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 06, 2020, 04:40:11 pm
Anyone have pics of the custom live API console Jerry Cameron built for ZZ ?
24 X 8.  As dealer we provided mic pre/eq/faders/summing modules..lots of 2520s.
It replaced a Tascam (supply horror emoji)
Not what you are asking for, but here is a photo of a much earlier console ZZ Top used.  May 1970, when they were a "prom band".

https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/billy-gibbons-on-the-zee-zee-top-prom-photo/
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 06, 2020, 06:42:27 pm
Not what you are asking for, but here is a photo of a much earlier console ZZ Top used.  May 1970, when they were a "prom band".

https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/billy-gibbons-on-the-zee-zee-top-prom-photo/

Tuck and roll PA by Kustom from Chanute, KS by Bud Ross (Ross stomp-box pedals).  Bud passed away in Kansas City in March of 2018.

Kustom Signals was the spin off that largely created the market for portable, police operated speed enforcement radar and the company's factory is on Chestnut Street in Chanute.  The Kustom audio brand is now owned by Hanser Music Group based in Hebron, KY, and is no longer affiliated with Custom Signals.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: John Fruits on April 06, 2020, 08:03:02 pm
Way back when I visited the Kustom factory.  It seems that sometimes the employees would get bored and take time out to play with the Radar Guns.  One time they discovered they could check the speed of a fly buzzing up and down the hall.  Kustom Signals was also pitching a device like a tablet computer for police cruisers.  On a couple of test benches they had oscilloscopes with tuck and roll cases.  I recall them as being red sparkle.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 06, 2020, 08:58:01 pm
Tuck and roll PA by Kustom from Chanute, KS by Bud Ross (Ross stomp-box pedals).  Bud passed away in Kansas City in March of 2018.

Kustom Signals was the spin off that largely created the market for portable, police operated speed enforcement radar and the company's factory is on Chestnut Street in Chanute.  The Kustom audio brand is now owned by Hanser Music Group based in Hebron, KY, and is no longer affiliated with Custom Signals.
Right before they went out of business (or so I am told the story) they made some "professional" consoles.

I heard there were 7 made.  At one time I owned 3 of them and knew where a 4th was.  The 24 channel verison weighed around 250 lbs or so.  Each channel was individually shielded, had a 5 band true LCR tone control circuit, switchable high and low pass filters, and I think a compressor on each channel.

The auxes were the stupidest I have ever seen.  They sent a signal to the rear of each channel, and had a return on each channel. but were not summed together.

So no monitor mixes or effects mixes.

I turned one of the 24 channel versions into a 8 mix monitor console and did a good number of national acts on it, after I redid the preamp, which was very low impedance input and would completely kill the tone at the FOH console due to the loading.

Oh those were the days.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ike Zimbel on April 06, 2020, 10:43:50 pm
Right before they went out of business (or so I am told the story) they made some "professional" consoles.

I heard there were 7 made.  At one time I owned 3 of them and knew where a 4th was.  The 24 channel verison weighed around 250 lbs or so.  Each channel was individually shielded, had a 5 band true LCR tone control circuit, switchable high and low pass filters, and I think a compressor on each channel.

The auxes were the stupidest I have ever seen.  They sent a signal to the rear of each channel, and had a return on each channel. but were not summed together.

So no monitor mixes or effects mixes.

I turned one of the 24 channel versions into a 8 mix monitor console and did a good number of national acts on it, after I redid the preamp, which was very low impedance input and would completely kill the tone at the FOH console due to the loading.

Oh those were the days.
They (Kustom) made a 12 channel desk that had to be at least 5' wide. They had faders that consisted of two sliders, side-by-side with a common knob that straddled both. Not great faders and the double thing just made them really hard to move. They had early LED meters, which were either calibrated to light ALL the LED's as soon as a signal went through them, or no headroom. I started my mixing career at age 17, in Prince Edward Island, Canada's smallest province. While I was there, I never used one of these monsters, but I knew a band that had one. Sounded awful. Having moved to Toronto without ever having to mix on one of these, I thought I was free and clear...until one evening the band I was mixing rolled into either the Drake, or the Gladstone Hotels (both are now refurbished, boutique hotels, but at the time were dives...) can't recall which. Anyway, whichever it was, the PA was a "courteous self service" affair, and after searching vainly for a FOH position, I walked behind the SR PA stack, and there was one of these Kustom desks. I don't remember the rest of the gig... :'(
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Jeff Bankston on April 07, 2020, 01:10:25 am
Billy looks like a computer technician in that foto.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 07, 2020, 02:01:40 am
Going to University of Kansas 67-70 I managed a rock band Pig Newton & The Wizards From Kansas..one of the band members had a friend..John King who we went to see in Shawnee Mission.
His dad developed Kustomís radar gun and I saw my first computer in the shop in his garage...a Digital.
Dad had a small company King Radio..which became a well known avionics company. Our band used Kustom crap...taught me first lesson.  When the indicator lamp dims the PS is running out of P.
.
And I thought my karma had bit me in the arse when I saw that rolled and pleated box in the cruiser as I was getting a speeding ticket
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2020, 08:20:13 am
Going to University of Kansas 67-70 I managed a rock band Pig Newton & The Wizards From Kansas..one of the band members had a friend..John King who we went to see in Shawnee Mission.
His dad developed Kustomís radar gun and I saw my first computer in the shop in his garage...a Digital.
Dad had a small company King Radio..which became a well known avionics company. Our band used Kustom crap...taught me first lesson.  When the indicator lamp dims the PS is running out of P.
.
And I thought my karma had bit me in the arse when I saw that rolled and pleated box in the cruiser as I was getting a speeding ticket
All this talk about "Kustom crap">

I bet you change your mind when you hear my computer speakers at my office.  You've just forgotten what what they can sound like, with a few modifications of course HA HA  Putting an NL 4 inplace of the 1/4" made ALL the difference.

That, and having a 2400 watt/ch amp drive them also helps----------
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 07, 2020, 09:51:45 am
I bet you change your mind when you hear my computer speakers at my office.  You've just forgotten what what they can sound like, with a few modifications of course HA HA  Putting an NL 4 inplace of the 1/4" made ALL the difference.

That, and having a 2400 watt/ch amp drive them also helps----------

Toto...I dont think we're in Kansas anymore
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ike Zimbel on April 07, 2020, 11:02:32 am
All this talk about "Kustom crap">

I bet you change your mind when you hear my computer speakers at my office.  You've just forgotten what what they can sound like, with a few modifications of course HA HA  Putting an NL 4 inplace of the 1/4" made ALL the difference.

That, and having a 2400 watt/ch amp drive them also helps----------
I bet all that upholstery provides some kind of resonance damping on the cabinets! How many channels is that Peavey mixer in your desk, 10? The Kustom 12 channel console that I mentioned above was easily twice as wide as that...used the same massive "stove knobs", but had about a 1/4 acre of open space around each one...
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2020, 11:24:03 am
I bet all that upholstery provides some kind of resonance damping on the cabinets! How many channels is that Peavey mixer in your desk, 10? The Kustom 12 channel console that I mentioned above was easily twice as wide as that...used the same massive "stove knobs", but had about a 1/4 acre of open space around each one...
The Peavey console under my desk is a PA900, so 9 channels.  The series all had odd number of channels, I don't know why.  I have a photo (not real clear) of one that has around 23 channels or so.  There was a smaller one, the PA700.

It has a built in 400 watt @ 2 ohm amp.

It still worked when I put it "under glass".
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2020, 11:29:27 am
Right before they went out of business (or so I am told the story) they made some "professional" consoles.

I heard there were 7 made.  At one time I owned 3 of them and knew where a 4th was.  The 24 channel verison weighed around 250 lbs or so.  Each channel was individually shielded, had a 5 band true LCR tone control circuit, switchable high and low pass filters, and I think a compressor on each channel.

The auxes were the stupidest I have ever seen.  They sent a signal to the rear of each channel, and had a return on each channel. but were not summed together.

So no monitor mixes or effects mixes.

I turned one of the 24 channel versions into a 8 mix monitor console and did a good number of national acts on it, after I redid the preamp, which was very low impedance input and would completely kill the tone at the FOH console due to the loading.

Oh those were the days.
I just ran across the best photo of the Kustom console.  But still doesn't show much.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 07, 2020, 12:00:00 pm
I just ran across the best photo of the Kustom console.  But still doesn't show much.

shows much better days in the hair department
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ike Zimbel on April 07, 2020, 12:09:04 pm
I just ran across the best photo of the Kustom console.  But still doesn't show much.
That looks like a much later version than the one I'm talking about. I'll see if I can find a pic...
Edit: Here's one for sale:https://reverb.com/ca/item/1149586-kustom-model-viii-srm-black-wood-grain-mixing-board (https://reverb.com/ca/item/1149586-kustom-model-viii-srm-black-wood-grain-mixing-board)
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2020, 12:22:21 pm
shows much better days in the hair department
That wasn't me.  It was my monitor guy for the show
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2020, 12:25:07 pm
That looks like a much later version than the one I'm talking about. I'll see if I can find a pic...
Edit: Here's one for sale:https://reverb.com/ca/item/1149586-kustom-model-viii-srm-black-wood-grain-mixing-board (https://reverb.com/ca/item/1149586-kustom-model-viii-srm-black-wood-grain-mixing-board)
The ones I had were right before they went out of business.

The one you showed was from the "2nd generation" (as I call it) Kustom.  After the rolled and pleated generation.

That console would be late 70s or so
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ike Zimbel on April 07, 2020, 12:34:55 pm

That console would be late 70s or so
Yep, and they were new when I encountered them, too! :-[
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Scott Holtzman on April 07, 2020, 01:10:41 pm
I just ran across the best photo of the Kustom console.  But still doesn't show much.


Looks like a Carver amp in that rack too.



Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2020, 01:27:03 pm

Looks like a Carver amp in that rack too.
I ran lots of carvers 1.5s back in the day.

HORRIBLE pin 1 problem.  That, of course, I didn't realize until after I stopped using them.

I would often spend hours trying to get the buzz/hum out of the system because of that.

I loved the weight though.  VERY light for those days
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Dave Pluke on April 07, 2020, 02:09:55 pm
Kustom Signals was the spin off that largely created the market for portable, police operated speed enforcement radar ...

And, if memory serves, Kustom also sold radar DETECTORS, thereby capturing both ends of that "cat and mouse" market.

Dave
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2020, 04:22:50 pm
And, if memory serves, Kustom also sold radar DETECTORS, thereby capturing both ends of that "cat and mouse" market.

Dave
It makes it easier if you know what the device doing the measuring is looking for.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Scott Holtzman on April 07, 2020, 04:45:52 pm
And, if memory serves, Kustom also sold radar DETECTORS, thereby capturing both ends of that "cat and mouse" market.

Dave


The original Fuzzbuster?  Escorts designed by Dave Valentine were all the rage when I was a kid in the 70's
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Jason Glass on April 07, 2020, 05:43:35 pm

The original Fuzzbuster?  Escorts designed by Dave Valentine were all the rage when I was a kid in the 70's

I still use a Valentine 1.  Best there is.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: John Sulek on April 07, 2020, 07:18:16 pm
I ran lots of carvers 1.5s back in the day.

HORRIBLE pin 1 problem.  That, of course, I didn't realize until after I stopped using them.

I would often spend hours trying to get the buzz/hum out of the system because of that.

I loved the weight though.  VERY light for those days

I remember one place I worked at, the tech guy put bypass caps on pin 1 to the carvers so the lifted pin would still ground out the rf whine.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 09, 2020, 02:33:54 am
Been to touch with George Piburn..who was out with Kevin McManus in 1980 on ZZís Deguelo tour...awaiting some pics
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 09, 2020, 02:41:19 pm
I ran lots of carvers 1.5s back in the day.

HORRIBLE pin 1 problem.  That, of course, I didn't realize until after I stopped using them.

I would often spend hours trying to get the buzz/hum out of the system because of that.

I loved the weight though.  VERY light for those days

Combine Carver 1.5's pin 1 issue with the mostly ineffective Yamaha 2031 graphic EQ that also had a pin 1 issue and POOR!, hours of frustration chasing the hum out of the monitor rig (don't ask me).  One never got rid of enough of it for one to hear the stuff the output choke didn't get...  Other than the weight I really didn't care much for Bob's amp as a professional user.  It was brilliant in a number of ways, but...

A couple years ago a friend said something to the effect of "yeah, no ground loops with digital stuff, remember back in the day..."  The difference is not just ones and zeros, it's that manufacturers have upped their circuit design and layout game (maybe the AES standard helped!) and they're not designing problems into their products they way they once did.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ike Zimbel on April 09, 2020, 04:04:39 pm
A couple years ago a friend said something to the effect of "yeah, no ground loops with digital stuff, remember back in the day..."  The difference is not just ones and zeros, it's that manufacturers have upped their circuit design and layout game (maybe the AES standard helped!) and they're not designing problems into their products they way they once did.
Hmmm. I dunno. It's been my observation that all of the time we used to spend chasing ground loops and other buzz and hum issues has been replaced, second-for-second, with tracking down IP related issues and other forms of "this not talking to that". YMMV :P
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: John L Nobile on April 09, 2020, 05:44:35 pm
Hmmm. I dunno. It's been my observation that all of the time we used to spend chasing ground loops and other buzz and hum issues has been replaced, second-for-second, with tracking down IP related issues and other forms of "this not talking to that". YMMV :P

:) True
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Dan Mortensen on April 09, 2020, 08:05:47 pm
I ran lots of carvers 1.5s back in the day.

HORRIBLE pin 1 problem.  That, of course, I didn't realize until after I stopped using them.

I would often spend hours trying to get the buzz/hum out of the system because of that.

I loved the weight though.  VERY light for those days

The problem with their pin 1 was that the connector was attached to a circuit board and the ground trace was vastly undersized. It was the definition of what Neil Muncy identified as the Pin 1 Problem.

We had him give a talk to our Section back in the early 80's; we started the meeting at 7:30pm and were immediately fascinated by what he was showing and telling us. We followed him as he led us here and there in a fascinating way. At some point we started to think maybe it was about time for an intermission, looked at the clock, and it was after midnight!

After seeing that, I started rewiring all my Carver amps; it was as simple as severing the ground trace at the connector and running a short wire to a chassis ground point. No or few problems after that.

Those amps started routinely dying after the turn of the century so they got replaced.

I used more 2.0's and PT-1200's (model #?, same as the 2.0 but lower sensitivity number) which were lighter yet than 1.5's, but you're right about the weight of either; they beat the crap out of PSA-2's.

(OT: FWIW the 4 channel Behringers are better than the lighter Carvers in the weight department, sound quite a bit better, and are vastly cheaper, while being about as powerful. Haven't seen a pin 1 problem yet.)
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 09, 2020, 08:48:42 pm
Combine Carver 1.5's pin 1 issue with the mostly ineffective Yamaha 2031 graphic EQ that also had a pin 1 issue and POOR!, hours of frustration chasing the hum out of the monitor rig (don't ask me).
Try the Audio Logic 1/3rd eq for an even WORSE pin 1 problem.

I could wave my hand in the back of the rack and the noise would come and go.  And not touch anything!

It got used on a couple of gigs before it was GONE.

I DO NOT miss those days at all.

Of course, if I knew then, what I know now, I could have wired around those problems and all "might" have been well.

But I didn't find out what a pin 1 problem was until years after using that bad gear.

Oh well, you live, you learn, you tell the stories and the young kids don't believe you.  Well it IS TRUE.  Trust me.

Oh, and a "plug in" will NOT fix those problems----------
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Jason Glass on April 09, 2020, 09:14:00 pm
Try the Audio Logic 1/3rd eq for an even WORSE pin 1 problem.

You can say that again!  I have one of those worthless P'sOS, in brand new condition, wasting away buried in the corner of a closet, where I placed it less than a month after acquiring it all those years ago.  In the rare moments when it wasn't buzzing, it was so otherwise noisy that it had to GO.  Truly a boat anchor in the history of pro audio gear.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 10, 2020, 02:20:39 am
Worse than a Soundcraftsman EQ ?
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Dave Pluke on April 10, 2020, 07:57:57 am
Worse than a Soundcraftsman EQ ?

Hey, now!  I still have the one we lugged around in the 70's.  There's a sentimental attachment.

Dave
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: John Sulek on April 10, 2020, 11:34:07 am
Worse than a Soundcraftsman EQ ?

with the built in pink noise switch?
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Mike Caldwell on April 10, 2020, 11:59:08 am



I used more 2.0's and PT-1200's (model #?, same as the 2.0 but lower sensitivity number) which were lighter yet than 1.5's, but you're right about the weight of either; they beat the crap out of PSA-2's.


The later version of the 2.0 was the PT1250 (Pro Touring/PT), the later version 1.5 was the PM1200 where they added an extra cooling fan and removed the adjustable voltage limiting.
I had some of those back in the day, actually I have a PM600 running my computer speakers right now!
The PT1250 and earlier 2.0 were crazy light weight power amps for that era. For mids I always felt the PT1250 was a good sounding power amp and overall better sounding and cooler running than the PM1200.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Steve-White on April 10, 2020, 12:42:07 pm
Carver amps & computer speakers?

There's a PM-350 running lows on mine, PM-300 doing low-mids, & a TFM-6CB for highs.

The TFM-6CB & PM-300 work well with just a little open back airflow in the rack.  The PM-350 needs a little help for prolonged high power levels.  That little plastic fan in it is pretty wimpy.  Many of the Carver designs couldn't deliver full potential without some kind of forced airflow in the racks.  Add some fans and most of them do pretty well.  Maybe the PT amps worked without additional airflow, never tried one.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Mike Caldwell on April 10, 2020, 06:50:54 pm
Carver amps & computer speakers?

There's a PM-350 running lows on mine, PM-300 doing low-mids, & a TFM-6CB for highs.

The TFM-6CB & PM-300 work well with just a little open back airflow in the rack.  The PM-350 needs a little help for prolonged high power levels.  That little plastic fan in it is pretty wimpy.  Many of the Carver designs could deliver full potential without some kind of forced airflow in the racks.  Add some fans and most of them do pretty well.  Maybe the PT amps worked, never tried one.

That's you computer speaker rack!

In the Carver days I had a PM300, PM1200's, PT1250's and PM600's and a PM900.
Of that I still have two PM600's left.
Biggest issues I had were scratchy pots that needed a shot of Deoxit fader lube/cleaner from time to
time as I was phasing them out of service.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 10, 2020, 11:41:02 pm
Worse than a Soundcraftsman EQ ?

They worked great for their intended purpose... home.  I still have one, somewhere.  Still using my Soundcraftsmen CX4000 preamp and Hafler DH-500 power amp for my home vinyl and CD listening.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 11, 2020, 01:58:58 am
Soundcrafstman EQ genenerated a DC thump upon turn on....WTF do you think DC means on a DC300.  It means new woofers
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Steve-White on April 11, 2020, 11:36:57 am
^^^ Or proper power up sequencing and opening of gain.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Dan Mortensen on April 11, 2020, 04:28:36 pm
The later version of the 2.0 was the PT1250 (Pro Touring/PT), the later version 1.5 was the PM1200 where they added an extra cooling fan and removed the adjustable voltage limiting.
I had some of those back in the day, actually I have a PM600 running my computer speakers right now!
The PT1250 and earlier 2.0 were crazy light weight power amps for that era. For mids I always felt the PT1250 was a good sounding power amp and overall better sounding and cooler running than the PM1200.

You got it, thank you!

All my 2.0's and 1250's are gone, but I still have 4 PM-1201's out of 5 (one here, so I could just now look at the model #) in an install, where they've been the last 20 years or so. The problem has been the fans getting noisy, not sure how to replace that. They're working fine otherwise.

I, too, felt the 2.0/1250's sounded better, and they almost always did what I needed them to do. Until they started dying.

Funny story: Dave Stevens, founder of the LAB, did some gigs for me way back when, and he blew up two 2.0's or 1250's at the same gig at the same time simply by turning them on. Finger on switch, BAM. IIRC they weren't even connected to anything.

Of course I told him he didn't have the proper technique; neither of us had any idea what the deal was with that. That was probably the beginning of the end for those amps with me.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Jeff Bankston on April 11, 2020, 05:15:35 pm
Turn on power amps last. Turn off power amps first. No thumps. No new woofies.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 11, 2020, 05:32:25 pm
Turn on power amps last. Turn off power amps first. No thumps. No new woofies.
Tell that to the guy who kicked out the cord & plugged it back in..
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Jeff Bankston on April 11, 2020, 09:57:54 pm
Tell that to the guy who kicked out the cord & plugged it back in..
I never had that problem nor ever heard of that happening in 50 years I'v been playing. Power cord to amps should be protected from that.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 12, 2020, 02:20:33 am
I never had that problem nor ever heard of that happening in 50 years I'v been playing. Power cord to amps should be protected from that.

Really .??  You should get out more often...and itís not the amp...itís the EQ thatís the problem
They move plugs around hookin up that newfangled cassette player
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Chris Hindle on April 12, 2020, 06:25:18 am
I never had that problem nor ever heard of that happening in 50 years I'v been playing. Power cord to amps should be protected from that.
Ya, get out and see more.
i had one "helpful" person go in the back of an amp rack, unplug a sub amp, and plug in a coffee machine.
This was between Sound Check and Doors. By the second hit of the kick, I knew there was a problem.
Make it as idiot-resistant as you want. God always comes up with a "better" idiot.
Chris.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on April 12, 2020, 06:53:43 am
Ya, get out and see more. God always comes up with a "better" idiot.
Chris.

Might be a topic all on its own.  The best idiot did......
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Jeff Bankston on April 12, 2020, 04:42:17 pm
Really .??  You should get out more often...and itís not the amp...itís the EQ thatís the problem
They move plugs around hookin up that newfangled cassette player
get out more often ? really ! you see we dont let anyone near our stuff !
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Chris Hindle on April 13, 2020, 12:28:08 pm
get out more often ? really ! you see we dont let anyone near our stuff !

Jeff, with all due respect, Not "letting", and not "happening" are 2 very different things.
Chris.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 14, 2020, 11:58:50 am
People will walk on cords and cables if those cords and cables are where the people want to walk, stand, or just be in the way...  Cable ramps (big heavy metal ones and Yellow Jacket types), mats and gaffer's tape help mitigate potential problems.  It's one thing to keep people away from stuff they have no business being near but most of the "tripping over a cord" stuff is caused by musicians, performers, and crew, all of whom *should* know to look down when they walk.  We spend a lot of time "talent-proofing" paths to the stage, up stage crossovers, etc.  If you've worked a Trans Siberian Orchestra show you'll know what I mean.

The bit about unplugging a sub amp to power a coffee pot... well, don't get between me and the coffee bean and nobody gets hurt, ya understand?  ;D  Seriously, this is one reason many providers fully enclose the backs of their racks - to discourage unauthorized connections or changes and generally keep out strangers.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Daniel Levi on April 14, 2020, 02:56:24 pm
I suppose the one advantage of having powerCON's on everything is that no domestic stuff uses said connectors, they can't plug it in if it wont fir (won't stop them trying though!)
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: John Fruits on April 15, 2020, 03:25:00 pm
Ya, get out and see more.
i had one "helpful" person go in the back of an amp rack, unplug a sub amp, and plug in a coffee machine.
This was between Sound Check and Doors. By the second hit of the kick, I knew there was a problem.
Make it as idiot-resistant as you want. God always comes up with a "better" idiot.
Chris.

I wonder if it was that Nick dude who plugged his cell phone in to charge on the stage of a Broadway show. 
Hand to God (https://www.playbill.com/article/exclusive-meet-the-guy-who-tried-to-charge-his-phone-on-stage-at-hand-to-god-com-353020)
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: duane massey on May 18, 2020, 02:45:44 am
Many stories from the early days here in Houston. Several of us started "sound" companies in 1969, and most of us were musicians. The number of odd consoles that would pop up were astounding, and I played thru everything from a 38watt Bogen to a 100w Atlas. We started building 6-8chan pa amps, all high-Z at first, and column speakers w/ 6x9 speakers.
First actual mixing console we built used the guts from Radio Shack/Archer 4ch mic mixers, hand-wired to sliders. Since we had never used one before, only pictures, we wired the sliders backwards. Didn't know it was wrong until we provided sound for Osibisa in Galveston. Thengineer kept looking at the console (of which we were quite proud of) but did the show without complaining. He did tell after the show that most consoles in England were built so that the level increased as you moved the fader UP. I rewired the board before we used it again.
Shared a multi-band show with ZZ Top right after they released their first album. The club provided the sound system, which might have been 2-4 Kustom speakers with the big round horns, but that was a long, long time ago.
And we did have a Kustom pleat and roll mixer for a couple of months in 1969(?).
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on May 18, 2020, 03:26:12 am
Houston...home of Stevenson aka Interface.
 About the best of the breed at the time...modular..slide faders..next step up was Midas. Maybe Mom's Wholesome Audio in between
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: duane massey on May 18, 2020, 12:47:10 pm
Interface was one of several innovative companies in the area. We were one of the earlier ones, but never quite turned the corner on more than limited success. Really didn't have the financial support, nor the stronger technical chops. Many long days and nights screening and etching copper-clad boards, drilling, loading, soldering, cutting aluminum, punching various holes, silk-screening, building, wiring.....I don't miss those days, but I'm glad I did it.
Ah, the old days....
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ike Zimbel on May 18, 2020, 01:26:09 pm
Interface was one of several innovative companies in the area. We were one of the earlier ones, but never quite turned the corner on more than limited success. Really didn't have the financial support, nor the stronger technical chops. Many long days and nights screening and etching copper-clad boards, drilling, loading, soldering, cutting aluminum, punching various holes, silk-screening, building, wiring.....I don't miss those days, but I'm glad I did it.
Ah, the old days....
Yep. I built lighting consoles and 4-way crossovers that way. Select Concert Products was the name of the company and many Canadian lighting companies started out with one or more Select consoles.
If nothing else, the experience building electronic products, literally from scratch, has served me very well as a repair technician. Knowing how things are built makes it easier to figure out how to take them apart, and more importantly, put them back together in like-new condition.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 19, 2020, 09:49:39 pm
Interface was one of several innovative companies in the area. We were one of the earlier ones, but never quite turned the corner on more than limited success. Really didn't have the financial support, nor the stronger technical chops. Many long days and nights screening and etching copper-clad boards, drilling, loading, soldering, cutting aluminum, punching various holes, silk-screening, building, wiring.....I don't miss those days, but I'm glad I did it.
Ah, the old days....
I built all of my first consoles.  The first was a 4 channel, then a6 channel with better eq, then a 12 channel that I used for a good number of bands in my early rental days.

I hand drew out the circuit boards, etched them in my bathtub, drilled the holes and mounted all the components, hand drilled the chassis etc.  Pressed the letters on one at a time.  VERY time consuming.

I built a 24 channel, but never could get the hum down to where I was happy, so I ended up throwing it away, after many hundreds of hours working on it.

Here is a photo of that 12 channel, along with the homemade amps, xovers, eqs etc. and speaker cabinets.  This was back in 1981
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: duane massey on May 20, 2020, 01:52:02 am
This is picture of one of our consoles from 1975, which was used for the cover of our first album, same year:
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Rex Ray on July 31, 2020, 10:33:27 am
Anyone have pics of the custom live API console Jerry Cameron built for ZZ ?
24 X 8.  As dealer we provided mic pre/eq/faders/summing modules..lots of 2520s.
It replaced a Tascam (supply horror emoji)
Hey Mike! I've got some photos somewhere of me mixing the Outlaws on that desk. Also,Kevin McManus left Marshall Tucker Band to come to Nashville to be a studio guy,and I took over mixing MTB. I moved to Nashville in Feb 1997 and bought a house about 200 yards from the studio he ran! Small world! I'lltry and dig up those photos and post'em.
Rex
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Doug Fowler on July 31, 2020, 12:33:46 pm
Hey Mike! I've got some photos somewhere of me mixing the Outlaws on that desk. Also,Kevin McManus left Marshall Tucker Band to come to Nashville to be a studio guy,and I took over mixing MTB. I moved to Nashville in Feb 1997 and bought a house about 200 yards from the studio he ran! Small world! I'lltry and dig up those photos and post'em.
Rex

Holy Shit, it's Rex!

Welcome back buddy! 
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Tim McCulloch on July 31, 2020, 01:02:38 pm
Holy Shit, it's Rex!

Welcome back buddy!
Seeing Newbie under Rex's name is good for a chuckle.
Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: Scott Holtzman on July 31, 2020, 02:19:35 pm
Hey Mike! I've got some photos somewhere of me mixing the Outlaws on that desk. Also,Kevin McManus left Marshall Tucker Band to come to Nashville to be a studio guy,and I took over mixing MTB. I moved to Nashville in Feb 1997 and bought a house about 200 yards from the studio he ran! Small world! I'lltry and dig up those photos and post'em.
Rex


I have worked a few times with a fellow named JC Girardier, these days he is at Chuck Negron's side, making sure he can still perform and keeping him sounding great.


Anyway, JC worked for Clair/Showco in the day and had all sorts of ZZ Top and Prism stories.  Not sure if any of you recall him.



Title: Re: Z Z Top console
Post by: MikeHarris on July 31, 2020, 06:12:19 pm
Hey Mike! I've got some photos somewhere of me mixing the Outlaws on that desk. Also,Kevin McManus left Marshall Tucker Band to come to Nashville to be a studio guy,and I took over mixing MTB. I moved to Nashville in Feb 1997 and bought a house about 200 yards from the studio he ran! Small world! I'lltry and dig up those photos and post'em.
Rex

please do...i found George Piburn in New Mexico.  said he still has mainframe
would love to hear from Kevin