Post by: Christian Jensen on December 30, 2008, 07:13:43 PM
There homepage is www.voidaudio.com
It seems to be quite powerfull speakers with a 3-way 12" top that gives 135db con and 140db peak and a double 18" giving 139db con and 144db peak.
Do you know anything about them? how do they sound compaird to the price?
As it is now my alternativ is L'Acoustics 12XT and SB118, how will the Stasys series compaird to that?
Post by: Nathan Short on December 30, 2008, 10:15:33 PM
Box for box, the Stasys would mop the floor with the L'Acoustics boxes you are suggesting as the alternative.
Rog is a great designer, and his designs are in my top three favorite brands including L'Acoustics and Martin Audio London.
Just make sure to pick the right solution for your coverage and SPL needs.
You can email Matt Edgar for more info sales.usa@voidaudio.com
Post by: Christian Jensen on December 30, 2008, 11:35:55 PM
As i can see you know the speakers from L'Acoustics i whant, maybe you can help med pick the best system for me.
The choice is between:
4 L'Acoustics 12XT and 4 L'Acoustics SB118
2 Void Stasys 3 and 2 Void Stasys 8
what you need to consider here is that the system is going to be used for mobile jobs, wich means diffrent crowd sizes from 100 people and all the way to about 500-700 peoble, so its importent that the system is easy to transport and be able to work in many diffrent venues.
We have covered our jobs with a system at aproxemately the same size as the L'Acoustics before, so it should be big enough, bot can the 12XT work together if there are two SB118 on each side of the stage with a polemounted 12XT on top, or would i get serious phase problems?
Post by: Lee Brenkman on December 31, 2008, 12:16:51 AM
Even leaving the subs out of the discussion.
The Stasys 3 is a horn loaded three way box that weighs 48 kilograms and has a narrow horizontal and vertical dispersion. It is meant to be used in multiples.
I know from past experience that one of this kind of box a side (Meyer MSL4s in most cases) do NOT do a good job of covering a small hotel ballroom with only one a side no matter how close together they are. Spaced at 18 to 20 feet apart some parts of the room and going to have too much and other parts not nearly enough direct sound.
The L'acoustics is a two way coaxial box that only weighs 29 kilograms and has a 90 degree coverage patten. Using a pair of these "side by each" on each side of the stage and splayed properly will cause a pattern too wide for that same hotel ballroom
If flexibility and portability are truly your main concerns than thw 12XTs are a much better choice IF their maximum output levels meets the needs of you and your clients.
If you need heavier duty SPL and have the means and will to move multiples of the Void boxes than that's the way you should go.
One final thought. If you are concerned with corporate event planners or being "rider friendly" than Volt is a name that isn't very well known this side of the pond.
They are probably good though, Rog does seem to know his stuff.
Post by: Marjan Milosevic on December 31, 2008, 03:07:00 AM
And with the recent rate of the UK Pound vs Euro you can get them a lot cheaper now.
Post by: Paul Bell on December 31, 2008, 09:18:14 AM
I've NEVER seen Void on a rider. Come to think of it, I've never seen a Void product anywhere.
Post by: Charlie Jeal on December 31, 2008, 09:23:04 AM
As you already have a thread going in the basement discussing your needs, on which you have already received some good advice I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you start another.
That said I would avoid the void stuff completely Ive heard quite a bit of as a guy I know locally loves it, he's a well meaning amateur at best and he just likes how loud it will go in the small spaces he works in, it may go loud but its seems very "raucous" to my ear and its also very heavy in weight. Also their is the "unknown quantity" factor of the Void gear, as well it presents much more like well made "home brew" kit.
As to the L'acoustics stuff they're great boxes but probably not what you really need right now and also very pricy once you've got the appropriate amps and dsp etc.
As both Kristian Johnsen and myself have advised you several times take a look around for some older used tour grade boxes such as Turbo Flashlight or Floodlight with the Tsw 718 2x18 subs or maybe some KF850/SB850 stacks four stacks of either with amps and dsp should be affordable in your budget easily and would get you far better capabilities for your money even taking shipping into account.
Charlie
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on December 31, 2008, 09:52:38 AM
Edit: Spelling
Post by: Christian Jensen on December 31, 2008, 11:17:40 AM
The L'Acoustics is also more like a wish, I hope i can get the local soundcompany that uses them so sell me some of there gear for a good price.
This thread was ment as if any one had som information on Void. As some of you alread said then yes they are pritty hevy, like 130kg for a double 18"
Now that i am looking through Bob kellys page again i faund a Asamson system with 16 MH215 and 16B218 plus amps for 27000
Post by: Mac Kerr on December 31, 2008, 11:26:44 AM
| Christian Jensen wrote on Wed, 31 December 2008 11:17 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I can also see that i can get 24 L'Acoustics V-Dosc for 125000 Post by: Charlie Jeal on December 31, 2008, 11:58:12 AM Bob is by no means the only broker in europe also you could always just google for the boxes or try looking up crystalpro or lmc audio here in the UK. For example less than Post by: Marjan Milosevic on December 31, 2008, 04:11:05 PM  I would say that if you judge by the performance, and not by the name you will find that there are only few trap tops that will compete with Void Stasys3. That would be Funktion one, Turbosound and maybe Meyer. The fact that Void is not known in US as in Europe does not mean it has bad products. It is a fairly new company but with very bright future. I would strongly recommend it. Post by: Marjan Milosevic on December 31, 2008, 04:12:43 PM http://www.desch-audio.de Post by: Charlie Jeal on December 31, 2008, 04:27:17 PM A couple of points for you: 1: In no way are the Void boxes anywhere near as good as the pro Turbo stuff TXD line maybe, certainly not as good as Nexo Alpha or any other high quality professional tour grade box. In fact AFAIK in the UK (where it's designed and made)no-one has any large stocks of it and it hasn't done any high profile events in fact there seems to be a few club installs of it a telling point there to me; maybe the situation is different in Macedonia. 2: The few systems I've seen of it (at toilet tour type level) dont seem to be that well built, as I said previously more akin to well made "home brew" stuff. Post by: Marjan Milosevic on December 31, 2008, 07:04:54 PM Since you are in the UK you should be more aware of the Void brand than the rest of us. And yes, Stasys 3 CAN compete with Funktion one and Turbosound boxes. They all have their own characteristics but if we are talking about the sound quality they are at the same level. Turbo TDX line uses P-Audio drivers and are way lower level than Void Stasys3. Google a bit about Rog Mogale. He has quite a history in audio engineering. This is like saying that Eona Audio products are bad just because you dont see them on the riders. Also visit www.speakerplans.com (the forum) for more information about Void products. Also i was answering to the OP about the system that is suitable for his needs. Look his other topic about the system he is trying to get. Happy New Year to all BTW 
Post by: Charlie Jeal on December 31, 2008, 08:01:10 PM I'm well aware of Rog Mogale and his credentials, as regards the void gear itself I've mixed on it a few times and didn't like it at all maybe it's some "characteristic" of the box I just plain don't like. They all just seem like versions of stuff off his speakerplans website only finished a little better. As regards your comparison to Eona stuff I think you're way off the mark and I'm pretty sure that it will start to crop on riders pretty soon. Void has been around for a while over here since 2002 in fact, the Void branded amps and dsp are chinese made oem stuff which can be found for a lot less cash if you shop around. As yet none of the well reputed providers in this country are using any Void boxes, but it does seem to have sold well for club installs. Charlie Post by: Nathan Short on December 31, 2008, 08:53:22 PM Post by: Charlie Jeal on December 31, 2008, 09:25:30 PM I assume you mean Andy Hunt of Matrix amplifiers "fame" ? Charlie Post by: Phil LaDue on December 31, 2008, 09:38:57 PM
 As to the rest of the thread- It's almost completely pointless to argue over this, or any other loudspeaker on the internet. Last time I checked the most important characteristic of a loudspeaker is impossible to determine without two things that are uniquely human and attached to the side of your head. To quote some guy I know in Jersey: "But how does it sound ?" Post by: Marjan Milosevic on December 31, 2008, 11:08:56 PM Post by: Phil LaDue on December 31, 2008, 11:40:06 PM
I can't believe you just said that.  Time to break out the Nomex. Post by: Geri O'Neil on January 01, 2009, 10:50:49 AM
Oh, MAN...Let the games begin (gonna sit this one out... Geri O Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 01, 2009, 10:56:43 AM
I see a "lock" coming up  Post by: Kristian Johnsen on January 01, 2009, 11:16:05 AM
Norways biggest sound CO (AVAB/CAC) are phasing out their Turbo Flash/Flood in favour of Meyer (and they have/had lots of it, I've heard talk of 800 boxes). I'm sure there are some Labsters with contacts in that firm, or you can just contact them directly (look them up on www.gulesider.no). The Danish Kroner is strong compared to the Norwegian now, you have great buying power in that direction right now Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 01, 2009, 11:25:16 AM
You need to change your name to full real name to continue posting on this forum-FIRST Do you have any data to back up your statement? I guess all the factories located in the US are not manufacturing anything? Post by: Dave Barnett on January 01, 2009, 11:30:00 AM
At present the Chinese have yet to crack the US auto market. There are no Chinese-made cars on sale here, yet, and there never has been. Ford, VW, Buick, and others do make cars in China, for the Chinese market. Post by: Paul Bell on January 01, 2009, 11:37:40 AM I've only stated what's commonly asked for on band tech riders. The speaker manufacturers I've mentioned have tour level high quality sound systems and this is the reason they're on riders. I'd be happy to give some Void products a look and listen but how would a sound company get a band to use it if not only is it not on their rider but they've never even heard of it? I would doubt that Void speakers would mop the floor against the systems I've mentioned. BTW, none of the manufacturers I've mentioned are my favorites, just the most commonly requested. Are there any Void speakers in the US? Is there a dealer in the US? If so, perhaps they can have a product showcase? They did not exhibit at AES or NSCA/Infocom in 2008. Post by: Francis Blakman on January 01, 2009, 11:56:46 AM
EQ is like short of equipment .I´l give you a link read abit we can talk later , give me your opinion ok http://www.voidaudio.com/product_detail.asp?id=17 Post by: Paul Bell on January 01, 2009, 12:20:49 PM I'm doubting that the Stasys-X dual 18 horn loaded sub will do 33Hz at -3DB. To their credit however, it looks like it has Precision Devices drivers with the five inch voice coils? Looking at the Stasys 3 MKII, it's listed as 45 degrees on the horizontal but just looking the the mid & high horns, it's certainly 90 degrees wide. Good luck arraying these side by side. I'd like to hear these speakers. Where can they be found? I'm in New York City. Are there any near me? Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 12:36:16 PM The link they give for US sales just goes back to their main website although they do give a US phone number and an email. Certainly in the UK Void have made some inroads into the club install business much the same as F1 have done except lets just say that Void have offered some "incredible" deals to get their systems out there. Having heard the Stasys tops I would say that they sound not too dissimiliar to a Res 2 but still lacking a certain something in comparison, and I certainly wouldnt want to be using Res 2s ever again for full on rock'n'roll bands and far less so the Void boxes. Charlie Post by: Francis Blakman on January 01, 2009, 01:25:10 PM http://www.voidaudio.com/index.asp http://www.funktion-one.com/home.htm http://www.noisecontrolaudio.com/ these are some of the kind of new stuff we have over here I´ve heard them all at most of our festivals here Francis Post by: James Drake on January 01, 2009, 01:34:56 PM don't like it but would blame the install first rather than the gear if i saw void on a tech spec i would expect a bad crew Post by: Francis Blakman on January 01, 2009, 01:42:30 PM
Paul so why do you leave Martin out they´v been there since the sixty ? I think it also depends on the music you are dealing with , Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 01:49:23 PM
Francis none of the stuff you give links to is "new" it maybe be new to you though. I'm going to hazard a guess that the enviroment you have heard it in is a club/dance tent/stage as this seems to be where it is most commonly found. I also find it puzzling that coming from Denmark you seem unaware that both Nexo and L'Acoustics are French companies and yes we are all well aware of the profile of Tony "Father of Turbosound" Andrews and Funktion One. I could go on and on about home made boxes not achieving the same quality and results as professional boxes with some serious r n d put into them. Though this said 18-20 years ago who among us (truthfully) had heard of Christian Heil and L'acoustics. Charlie Post by: Christian Jensen on January 01, 2009, 01:57:48 PM I think i would get a problem with rumble bass if i use double 18" subs in a 50 squaremeters or am i wrong? Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 02:02:43 PM Charlie Post by: Francis Blakman on January 01, 2009, 02:39:33 PM
when I say new I don´t mean that sense , they ars slowly taking over the market from most of the other everyone started in clubs and worked their way up , and am not a sales man. I could even tell you name of small companies from Denmark and Sweden who´ve opened workshops in La and thing , so it´s not like am behind . It´s just that some people go about dissing things they know nothing about , not good . Francis Post by: Mike Maki on January 01, 2009, 03:09:58 PM
The frequencies of interest will follow the inner part of the horn which is obviously a tight pattern. The rapid flair at the end is to ease acoustical impedance change. Mike Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 03:19:32 PM
As previously stated Im speaking from experience of Void stuff and to be honest wouldn't consider them in anywhere near the same bracket as Funktion One, as for slowly taking over the market, having googled for it can find no-one with a serious stock of Void product anywhere in the world. Certainly over here the only times you seem to see it as James Drake points out is at the bottom of the pile type venues and certainly when you come across it doesnt engender much confidence in the provider or venue if its an install. This is of course talking in terms of use for bands/live music not club type reproduction. As for your assertion that everyone started off with club type stuff and worked upwards I'm sorry but you are barking up the wrong tree entirely there if you'd perhaps cited cinema/movie theatres and sports facilties for the beginnings of our industry you'd be nearer the mark and certainly V Dosc wasnt born out of club systems. I know you are new to the LAB Francis but you will find most of tend not to call a spade a manually powered earth excavation implement but simply a spade. Charlie Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 01, 2009, 03:31:51 PM
Post by: Paul Bell on January 01, 2009, 03:51:51 PM The ..... indicates there might be more makes often seen on riders. I've listed the ones I've most commonly seen. I've also seen Turbosound, Martin, McCauley..... My point was that I've never seen Void on any rider. Meanwhile, it's starting to look that despite the high cost of these boxes "these speakers they are TOP$" they're not very highly regarded by the few people who've heard them. Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 03:56:16 PM
Sorry Tim guess it should be a shovel to you guys over the pond.  Charlie Post by: Paul Bell on January 01, 2009, 04:03:28 PM Post by: Paul Bell on January 01, 2009, 04:04:12 PM Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 04:11:34 PM  Note the flat edges. Charlie Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 04:13:20 PM  One is used for digging a hole the other for scooping stuff up Charlie 
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 01, 2009, 04:44:59 PM
That will be the preferred tool by the time this thread is locked... Have fun, HNY. Tim Mc Post by: Christian Jensen on January 01, 2009, 04:46:39 PM I have heard a double stack of the Resolution 2 and F218, and i have never heard any thing as loud and clear at the same time as that from souch a "small" system. I have found some used F218 for about 1400 Post by: Marjan Milosevic on January 01, 2009, 04:52:45 PM You should ask them for prices. Try David Bruml at: david at funktion-one.com Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 04:56:25 PM Just buy the Turbo gear, designed by the same guy, also a lot cheaper now and of course blue rather than purple. Charlie Post by: Christian Jensen on January 01, 2009, 04:56:46 PM I then we all know now what a shovel and a spade is. Post by: Paul Bell on January 01, 2009, 05:35:17 PM Shovels often come up in day-to-day conversations. Now this Void stuff... Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 05:46:18 PM Charlie Post by: Mac Kerr on January 01, 2009, 05:51:02 PM
You could always try Bink's D9 eq. Mac Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 01, 2009, 05:55:15 PM That's the new "network" version, note the suffix. You always get the new toys first! Have fun, HNY. Tim Mc Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 01, 2009, 05:57:46 PM [img]
Post by: Tom Danley on January 01, 2009, 06:02:52 PM The D-9 is truly an impressive engineering tool and massive when you stand next to one. Sometimes, when you really have to "make the room go away" or have a difficult peak or bump to flatten, the D-11 the lesser known big brother can also serve well. The controls are also very similar and would be interchangeable in many instances. An example of "severe equalization" of a troublesome bump with a D-11 below. As you can see, it's nearly flat in one pass, just a little tweaking to do. Happy new year Best, Tom Post by: Marjan Milosevic on January 01, 2009, 06:06:47 PM
Post by: Tom Danley on January 01, 2009, 06:17:40 PM So it is perfectly clear, if it's not already, my love of large iron tools is not meant as a comment on Rog's boxes. Some i have seen look very cool and seem well thought out, but i have never heard any of them. On the other hand, sometimes you just can't pass the chance to post a cool equalization picture. Best, Tom Post by: Mac Kerr on January 01, 2009, 06:24:45 PM Mac Post by: Paul Bell on January 01, 2009, 06:32:25 PM Post by: Mac Kerr on January 01, 2009, 06:35:28 PM
I think it won't have that big bass thump anymore! Your neighbors will sleep better. Mac Post by: Tom Danley on January 01, 2009, 06:58:52 PM Rat's i couldn't find that picture yet. I know it was in Germany at a strip mine but i would have thought i had it (actually a series) still. It was hard to picture a machine so big it could pick up a CAT like a dirt clod. Best, Tom Ah Dad, I dropped the D-9 again and i can't pick it up. Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 01, 2009, 07:10:08 PM Truly HEAVY METAL!!!! The D9 looked sooo small next to the BIG machine. Post by: Peter Morris on January 01, 2009, 07:50:58 PM http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2006/11/biggest-and-hungries t-machines.html Post by: Tom Danley on January 01, 2009, 08:02:33 PM That is it! Look at that monster, those CAT's aren't "light" I'll bet somebody had a fun meeting with the boss and "without the tea and without the cookies" as they say. Best, Tom Danley Post by: Mac Kerr on January 01, 2009, 08:36:43 PM Mac Post by: Marjan Milosevic on January 02, 2009, 09:07:30 AM Bud i had to admit is kind of a cool
Post by: Simon Ryder on January 02, 2009, 10:50:44 AM The first used their Axsys line which I was very impressd with the quality of in relation to price. NOTE these are NOT touring boxes and would die horribly if you tried it. They are pretty install boxes (read easy sell) that sound pretty good for the price. I have also used their micro line which I found comparable to Martin's Blackline range at a much cheaper price point. Both systems received very good feedback (not the shrill kind) and reports from many people who heard them including experienced touring engineers. I would state however that these were both budget installs and care was taken with time alignment, EQ etc. I used the void electronics for these because they were offered at a very good price. I have moved back to QSC RMX for my budget installs due to reliability issues and XTA and DBX processors for flexibility and sound quality. I have heard the Stasys rig on demo and it did sound very good indeed. I have never mixed on it though. Another OP mentioned Noise Control Audio. I have a lot of direct experience of this brand and truth to say am astonished by its performance. I have been using their Ifly rig for everything from rock and roll to classical orchestras and opera with a mixture of A list and B list acts to nothing but rave reviews from clients and guest engineers alike. Their monitors are my favorite thing after D&B M2s. After a summer of mixing monitors on the NCA wedges I was truly disappointed when I mixed monitors on D&B Max15s which sounded thin, harsh and were infinitely more feedback prone than the NCA wedges (This was mixing for Fat Boy Slim in front of 24,000 people, must say the J series rig totally blew me away though) The NCA electronics are OEM from Linear Resarch and FFA, and have totally impressed me. Aside from the bomb proof build quality, flexibility, sound quality etc the thing that has impressed me most though is their attention to customer support (Void are no slouch here either) which is about as good as I have come across anywhere. Putting my money where my mouth is- the install I am currently speccing is all Noise Control. I have no idea if they have a US dealership yet, but seriously give them an audition. Compare them to Meyer, Nexo, Martin, D&B et al as this is the level their quality is at if not their global reputation... yet! http://www.noisecontrolaudio.com Post by: Randy Pence on January 02, 2009, 11:14:58 AM There is a collection of smaller (up to 130m long) former earth movers in Ferropolis, Germany. An open mine was eventually no longer used, filled with water, and transformed into an giant museum and festival location. http://www.ferropolis-online.de/ferropolis.html I was there this year for the Melt! Festival (Bjork headlining, 20k visitors, larely and lovely vertec rig for bjork) and it was quite impressive to stand under these monsters. I can't imagine waking up to the rumble of that bigger giant, reminds me too much of Time Bandits. Post by: Kristian Johnsen on January 02, 2009, 11:21:12 AM
I don't know what festivals you go to, but I have been to a fair few myself (as a punter) and I try to sneak a peak at my buddies' photos when they have been, to check out the gear. To me it seems Turbosound, Meyer and Nexo are the most common. I have no opinion on the Void stuff or the Funktion One stuff, but to say that their gear is common at festivals in these parts is, well, politely put, not true. Post by: Peter Møller on January 02, 2009, 09:07:02 PM Just to make things clear before anyone starts shouting about me being biased I am the danish distributor of Void Acoustics products.. For the stuff you are doing, it sounds like the Impulse 3T is more suitable than the Stasys3 - the Impulse 3T has a 12" in a vented cab instead of the hornloaded 12 in the Stasys 3 - this enables it to function as a fullrange cabinet for smaller stuff.. If you are interested, I have a handful of Impulse 3t in the rental stock, so it should be easy to arrange a demo.. Give me a call on +45 40624498 if you ( or anyone else for that matter ) are interested W. regards to the comments made by other posters: There *are* some pretty substantial Void rigs around the UK - mostly with regional providers.. /peter, hoping he hasnt broken any rules on PSW now.. Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 02, 2009, 10:08:03 PM Welcome to the LAB. Out of interest who are these regional providers in the Uk with substantial rigs? Inquiring minds etc. Charlie Post by: Rog Mogale on January 02, 2009, 10:31:44 PM First off on a technical point of view I have to disagree with the comment that Paul Bell made about the Stasys 3 having a dispersion of closer to 90 degrees. It would seem he formed this opinion dew to the last section of the mid and HF horns flare rate. My own tests and research into horn design concur with those of all the great designers that have written papers on the subject for the last 50 years, in that it’s the first 1/3rd of the horn that dictates its dispersion. The final flare rate is used to ascertain the mouth size, which contributes to the drivers loading and efficiency above its cutoff. For CD horns and their associated diffraction slots, dispersion will again be controlled by the first 1/3rd of the horn, with the start point being the location between the end of the diffraction slot and beginning of the horn proper. i.e. the diffraction slot is not to be included as part of the first third of the horn. Papers by Keele (1976 AES horns vs DR) and recent CBT papers, Dinsdale and later B Woods can provide a greater insight into a horns ability to control and modify dispersion. I would also suggest taking a look at the measurement data available for all Void products that can be found at the bottom of their respective pages, where you will find plots for frequency response, group delay, impulse response, THD, polar analysis, 2nd to 7th relative harmonics, 3D waterfall and spectrograph. Premium models also have thermal decay plots of critical components. But if you have evidence to suggest that a horns final flare section does have a major influence on its dispersion then I would love to view your findings and learn from them. Next I want to challenge Mr Jeal’s comments that Void products are ‘home brew’, that ‘Void branded amps and dsp are Chinese made oem stuff which can be found for a lot less cash if you shop around’ and ‘that Void have offered some "incredible" deals to get their systems out there.’ That’s some pretty bold statements to make and I hope you have proof to back up your claims. I would like to challenge you on all off these points as to me and most audio professionals working in and around Europe, we know all of what you said is completely untrue. For the first year Void was in business we did sell a DSP speaker management system that had design input from me but was built in China. We also for our first year of trading (2002 – 2003) sold a series of amplifiers called Network that I also designed but were made solely in China. These products were not off the shelf generic products that Void just stuck a logo on as their design and form did not exist in China before I started going there. I was not happy with the level off consistency or build quality offered at the time in China so pulled out and moved many process back to the UK and other EU countries. Production and sells of our Mk1 Digidrives and Network amplifiers stopped in late 2003 when we moved manufacture out of China, but unfortunately products that look exactly the same as the products I designed back then are still being sold by many Chinese manufacturers. So you will still see companies in China and all around the world selling digisythetic processors and amplifiers that look like our first Network series, but a quick look on our web site will confirm that we have not sold these products for 5 years now. Here’s the deal, Mr Jeal. I can fly back to the UK and accompany you to a loudspeaker cabinet factory which is based right next to one of the UK biggest PA manufacturers and who builds for many of the Uk’s top PA manufacturers. If we look on the computers that control the CNC machines and find Void designs and also go to the accounts department and see that Void Acoustics LTD has made payments to this company, will you make a public apology and admit that you were wrong to say Void products are home brew. If the top 3 UK Company’s also have their cabinets made there, which includes most of the products you use, are you also saying that their and the products you use are home brew. I can then take you to Voids factory in Poole where you can see SMT machines loading PCB’s and staff assembling and testing Void amplifiers. I can also fly us both to the south of Europe where you can see other Void amplifiers and dsp’s being made. If after seeing this with your own eyes, will you again come on to this forum and make a public apology and confirm that you have seen Void Products being made in the UK and within the EU. If you really understood this industry you would know that most manufacturers employ at most 8 to 10 people doing R&D. I have a fulltime team of 46 people with me doing R&D. These include CAD operators, a full wood and metal workshop with dedicated CNC just for prototype cabinets, a fiberglass and mould making shop and transducer department. I also have 4000sq meters to carry out my R&D and all the latest test equipment and environments to conduct tests. Mr Jeal, I advise you go to the Void support pages on our website and download our recent catalog and look for yourself at the level technology that goes into each product. If you are from the UK you must have also noticed the growing number of users and positive feedback that post about Void products on a number of UK and European forums. I know what you said here Mr Jeal was given as advice, but people give advice to either keep others out of danger or keep themselves out of danger. You are totally correct when you and others say Void will not be seen on any riders, but that really doesn’t worry me, as I don’t place a companies success on what a few people within the industry think everyone should be using. The biggest secret in this industry is that your make your money from installs, not the live sector. This is the truth for around 80% of all European manufacturers. Think of how many clubs, bars and pubs there are in each town and then think of how many rental companies there are in each town and how little kit they own in comparison and how long they keep there stock these days. Most audio manufacturers accountants will tell you that the installs keep the company going and that the live stuff is just icing on the cake and is good for brand awareness and ego massaging. The changes that are coming due to the financial crisis means that the live performance industry in Europe will have to change massively, if not it will collapse. So I’m not worried about having a Void system seen at the 6 or 7 big live events that happen in the UK each year now. Void sells have doubled in the last year and each month that comes along is also our best for sells. We also reached our 2008 yearly sells target 4 months early. Yes we don’t do a handful of major high profile live events each year, but we do have more than 30 new installs taken place each month around the world. That’s one or more new venues that have chosen Void per day and are installing our products. And that’s not including all the small bars and pubs, I’m just talking about bigger high profile clubs and venues. I’d also like to put the record straight as to Mr Jeals comments that we have to offer amazing deals to get venues to use Void products. Can you get or name one venue or club that can say we either gave them the equipment or made them an offer they could not refuse. I know you will not be able to do that, as I know we don’t and never have worked like that. All Void installs are carried out by our distributors and they pay the retail price minus the distributors discount. There is no exception. The first thing you learn is that if you start doing deals behind your distributors backs you will piss them off and they will walk away leaving you with no distribution. I feel very privileged to have distribution and to be represented in over 20 countries around the world now. You don’t get that amount distributors or level of loyalty by doing deals behind their backs. All our distributors work so hard and have total faith in void products, I’m not going to jeopardize that by doing a dodgy deal as I don’t need the money and have total respect for there efforts. So Mr Jeal, do you accept my challenge of seeing for yourself what the truth really is. I have nothing to hide. Rog Mogale Director and head of R&D Void Acoustics LTD Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 02, 2009, 11:08:26 PM As to the other points I made 1: I said "presents like well made home brew" certainly the boxes I've seen haven't worn well maybe thats down to end user care or a bad batch of paint at some point or maybe just some "having a bad day" assembly I know for a fact every company has occasional off days. 2: If thats the case for your amps etc these days then many apologies I was wrong. However the one I've seen were the chinese made ones. 3: As to the "incentives" and "manufacturer support" that goes into many if not all major install bids whether done through distributors or directly we all know it goes on and lets be totally open about this no-one will ever admit to it publicly. I've certainly seen more than one case of "special" pricing just to get kit out of the doors and that's from much larger manufacturers. Charlie Post by: Paul Bell on January 02, 2009, 11:25:57 PM First, welcome to The LAB, it'd be great to see you here now and then. Second, I wouldn't consider your post (reply) in this thread an advertisement, your certainly allowed if not encouraged to comment on topics concerning gear that you're directly involved with. The first and last thing taught in SMAART class to to listen, use your ears, if the measurements say it's right but it sounds wrong, it's wrong. I've used and own cabinets with horns similar to the ones you have in the Stasys 3. They disperse at 90 wide. Your exact horns may be better than 90 but smack two cabinets side by side, pink noise them and slowly walk past them, 50 foot out with one ear to them. How bad will the lobbing be? Are there any of your cabinets here in the states? I'd look forward to hearing them. Post by: Rog Mogale on January 03, 2009, 05:34:51 AM “First, welcome to The LAB, it'd be great to see you here now and then.” Thank you Paul. I started a new account, as my previous account seems to be dead. It’s been around 7 years since I last posted on this forum. Older contributors may remember the long discussions that Tom Danley, myself and others used to have here some 10 or more years ago. “1: I said "presents like well made home brew" certainly the boxes I've seen haven't worn well maybe thats down to end user care or a bad batch of paint at some point or maybe just some "having a bad day" assembly I know for a fact every company has occasional off days.” Thank you for informing me of deficiencies in our exterior paint finish. I will contact our German supplier of water based paint and severely reprimand them immediately. “2: If thats the case for your amps etc these days then many apologies I was wrong. However the one I've seen were the Chinese made ones.” I understand, as it’s easy to get confused these days. And isn’t it nice to know my first amp designs are still in operation, even if they were built by a bunch of rural farmers 5 years ago ha ha. “3: As to the "incentives" and "manufacturer support" that goes into many if not all major install bids whether done through distributors or directly we all know it goes on and lets be totally open about this no-one will ever admit to it publicly. I've certainly seen more than one case of "special" pricing just to get kit out of the doors and that's from much larger manufacturers.” As I started before, we don’t do direct deals. Even the system that went into the most exclusive part of the club in the 02 Arena owned by Fabric went thought an approved install company with no special deals. Of course I’m aware of what goes on in the install world, but that doesn’t mean I have to dirty my hands and play the same game. In the last 3 months I myself have had 2 major venues come to me and tell me that they want Void in there club, but have had another manufacturer contact them and offer to install a system for free if they use there brand. That’s great for the club and my response as ever is go for what you feel will serve you best. Its also nice when after one year a club owner comes to you and says, sorry I was wrong, I went for the free system and it let me down, can I now please buy a system from Void. And as for special pricing for major touring companies. Many experienced people have come to me and said, why don’t you do a really good deal or give some equipment to the big touring companies so they start using your kit. That’s a lovely sentiment and very 1970’s roadie attitude to have, but it’s not the real world. Here’s how it works. I go to a major touring company and say here have these 15” + 1.5” monitors for free. They say thanks, try them out and come back to me and say wow, these are the best monitors we have ever heard, but if we take them and the company that we have invested so much in finds out, that company might not give us the same level of support it once did or have such a close working relationship with us. Also, as Void is never seen on a rider, it would be pointless to take these monitors out to a gig. Further more, if we did take out monitors from a new upcoming company and use them with our normal FOH system, the bands engineers would question our judgment and integrity and we could lose work, as we might not be seen as being a competent hire company who will cater for the needs of touring engineers anymore. I could go on for another 4 pages as to the reasons why you don’t just give a system to a hire company and then magically overnight get accepted as an industry standard. In the UK, especially the main higher profile concerts, systems are normally chosen and recommended by the same 4 to 5 ‘system consultants’ year after year. This is great until the manufacturer they have been championing and recommending for the last 10 years comes up with a new series that really sucks. The consultants have such a strong link with the manufacturer that they still have to recommend the new series, even if they know its bad. They also can’t be seen to go back on their word and say, well it was good last year but this other brand is better now. That makes them look bad and could mean there kids don’t eat, so they just keep recommending the new system even thought they know its been designed by an accountant with no regard for an audiences requirements or enjoyment. This in my option is what has led to the steep demise in quality of European live sound in the last 3 years. Look at the faces and ask people how they feel when they leave a concert these days. Its not like it was even 10 years ago and that can’t compare to 25 years ago when most of the hire companies doing live sound did it because they really loved what they were doing. I just hope a certain few individuals and hire companies have the right answers when that days comes. I also think that because the way the financial system is dissolving, anyone that doesn’t make the right decision will be wiped out anyway. This is not a credit crunch, it’s a cleansing period for companies that never understood how it worked. I feel so lucky to have learned my business skills right now, as I can adapt and move with the changing economy. It won’t be so easy for the companies that leant their skills 30 or 40 years ago and I fear that the very fast change of world order will turn them to dust. “I've used and own cabinets with horns similar to the ones you have in the Stasys 3. They disperse at 90 wide. Your exact horns may be better than 90 but smack two cabinets side by side, pink noise them and slowly walk past them, 50 foot out with one ear to them. How bad will the lobbing be?” As bad as any other design that does not use path length compensation and has a center to center spacing of more than a half a wavelength. But you obviously knew that and will also be able to tell from the Stasys 3’s polar plots that its off axis output and DI are as close to perfect as any design that calls itself point source can be. Thank you for the many PM’s I’ve been sent. It means a lot to get positive encouragement. Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 03, 2009, 08:47:02 AM Most "live" people think that their world is the "only" world. In talking to several large loudspeaker manufacturers and with my own limited experience, we all agree. Most of their business (70-80%) comes from the install side of things. Yes the tour world is the "glamour" business, but install pays the bills. The install world also tends to be more critical. In the tour world it is slap it up, turn it up, tear it down and move on to another gig. In the install world people spend a lot more time actually listening to a system/different seats and evaluating it. The same setup/circumstances day after day. Post by: Paul Bell on January 03, 2009, 09:37:56 AM On the other end of this business, the sound company end, installs are highly competitive and there are many so called "experts" each who have their own group of cheerleaders saying they're the best. Also, guys will bid low to get another install on their list. Many installs have very little profit for the installer yet tend to be the most criticized and are the highest maintenance. Add to this the current economy, here in NYC decent installs are virtually at a standstill. Seems clubs are closing up quicker than new ones are being built. Shows and system rentals are much more profitable for a sound company. I'd much rather do a show where I have to provide a big system. One day of prep, show day, one day of putting things away in the shop. Money made, none spent on purchasing gear. These days, I'd rather do a show than an install but as slow as things are, I'd take on an install. Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 03, 2009, 10:07:22 AM My background was a regional provider for about 25 yrs. I was never able to make the profit that install has provided-even though I was VERY busy. Now granted I was a lousy business person, and that had a lot to do with it.  Sure, shows can be a lot more fun-AND a lot more headache. I've had plenty of both. But installs have a different sort of "YEAH that's a great sounding system" type of thing. I get more personal satisfaction from a good-well behaved install. Ever since I got into the install side of things my knowledge base has grown TREMENDOUSLY! I have learned so much more and have a MUCH better understanding of how it all works together-louspeaker interaction-acoustics and so forth. I have been able to attend quite a few classes and seminars which have been invaluable. My life is so much better now working for an install company. More money, less hours, less bodily/mental stress-actual vacation/holiday time-weekends off and so forth. I NEVER thought I would ever say that  -being a live sound guy-but it is the truth. Of course there is the oddball install and this next weekend is one of those-having to work long hours throughout it because the room is used so much during the week. It's only a concert hall for the headquarters for one of the worlds largest corporations-so they "get their way".It really depends on what market(s) you are in. We are not seeing any slowdown and business is good. Each year is better than the last. I got a very nice Christmas bonus and everything.
Post by: Paul Bell on January 03, 2009, 10:41:35 AM I've had better experiences doing one off shows. Get in, do the show, get out it's over. Wham-bam make your money and move on. I do have several smaller bar installs that are much less problematic. Like I said, at this time I'd take anything that came along but for PBell Sound, the preferred work are the shows. Post by: Brian Alleyne on January 03, 2009, 11:40:49 AM Post by: Christian Jensen on January 03, 2009, 11:44:16 AM If you know somebody or even better have a pricelist of some gear feel free to contact me on my email, colakurt @ gmail . com As it looks now i think we will be going for some used Turbo. Post by: Rog Mogale on January 03, 2009, 09:23:42 PM I have to agree with both Paul and Ivan about the live sound and installed sectors. It’s apparent that what you grew up with can dictate what you prefer as work. If you loved hanging around bands and going to see live performances or just wanted to help out with carrying the kit for a band then its more likely you will end up doing live work. If you spend your younger years in a disco dancing to the Bee Gees in 1978 then I would say you probably ended up as an install guy. I’m quite lucky that I did both in the late 70’s. Although I must admit to wanting to be more like John Travolta and spin people around on a dance floor to Donna Summer than I wanted to be a roadie. So I’m not surprised that I still prefer a really good club atmosphere. I kind of come from that rhythmic space and sometimes need to be pounded at 120 BPM surrounded with other like minded people. That said I spent most of the 80’s doing FOH live sound around the world on tours and at festivals like Glastonbury in the UK. I can only speak for the UK and some other parts of Europe, but most of the new venues requiring installs theses days are smaller and a lot more upper class in there operation. Out and out dance clubs with thousands of clubbers going wild are still around, but smaller venues that concentrate on image and are fashion conscience are becoming very popular. It’s a trend I thought would happen a long time ago, as when I went out to clubs many people would prefer to just stand there and move a little whilst checking out what everyone else was wearing. It’s a very UK thing and I don’t like the game, but the people who frequent these places just want the d Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 03, 2009, 09:45:20 PM And to put the record straight there Rog "toilet tours" are where I've come across Void stuff as live band rigs this does not mean that's exclusively the type of work I do. We've all taken excursions into those depths at one time or another. I too have toured around the world and worked Glastonbury Rog. I also appreciate the "form" aspect of install work having worked for a company that do a offer a custom design and build service as part of their installs/sales side and have carried out quite a lot of high profile work as well as operating a traditional rental operation. Charlie Post by: Peter Møller on January 03, 2009, 10:10:09 PM http://www.systemredaudio.com/ Maybe you'd prefer some visual evidence instead?: http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11500 That carnival truck was outfitted by 2 companies afaik.. Dont know about you, but I'd call that a fairly large rig? /peter Post by: Charlie Jeal on January 03, 2009, 10:22:08 PM Not wanting to split hairs or get back into some of the matter covered , personally I wouldn't call 8 tops and 8 subs a substantial system of whatever manufacturers gear and as Rog himself has said previously on this thread gigs arent where he sees the primary thrust of his business. Charlie Post by: Brian Alleyne on January 03, 2009, 11:04:33 PM Post by: Rog Mogale on January 03, 2009, 11:39:47 PM Thanks for posting those links Peter, I've found a few more as well. http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&a mp;KW=&PID=122577#122577 http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&a mp;KW=&PID=115954#115954 Also check out the great work that DIRT systems does with a plie of Stasys. They have been doing MTV Europe, MTV Base, One Extra and many other high profile gigs for a while now. Also lookout for some red stuff doing the rounds with BBC Radio One in 2009. Rog. Post by: Ian Hasell on January 04, 2009, 05:28:28 AM Ian Post by: Dan Brown on January 04, 2009, 04:08:24 PM
The plot they have for the product looks like it agrees with the rating Also as a note that the dbSPL is half space rating. Most are but just a note interesting as I haven't heard of them. db [edit - spelling] Post by: Randy Frierson on January 04, 2009, 06:26:04 PM Post by: Simon Ryder on January 05, 2009, 08:09:07 AM The Void electronics that I had issues with would now be 5 or 6 years old which leads me to believe from what has been said here that they were the early Chinese made models. If build origin and quality has changed, which it apparently has, I would be more than happy to reevaluate. Certainly in the UK Void are a lesser known contender with superb install products that hands down IMHO wins out on quality over certain major manufacturers budget lines at a lower price point. No-brainer really. In the UK we have a few small or seriously up and coming PA manufacturers that in their chosen areas upstage the big internationals. Noise Control - Superb touring line Opus Audio - beautifully HIFI sounding theatre boxes Void - very pretty install speakers that sound good. Post by: Kristian Johnsen on January 05, 2009, 08:37:38 PM This has nothing to do with the sale I told you about before, but might interest you: http://www.finn.no/finn/bap/object?finnkode=15948454&sid =xz4cbaB6Wez684738&WT.svl=Link Or how about some Martin stuff:  http://www.finn.no/finn/bap/object?finnkode=15884419&sid =&WT.svl=Bilde Post by: Dick Rees on January 06, 2009, 05:11:30 PM
Chriswhatever.... It would be helpful when quoting to attribute the quote for everyones convenience in following the thread. Secondly, what difference does it make HOW he manages to employ more folks???? Are you implying that this statement is false??? And what you "expect" may not in fact have any relation to the reality of the situation. All in all, not a great first post. Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 06, 2009, 05:41:08 PM
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 06, 2009, 05:42:55 PM
Dick's post was a response to a post from a member not following the posting rules. Not following the rules gets your post deleted, hence the hanging thought. Mac Post by: chriskmiec on January 06, 2009, 05:52:35 PM I think that its great someone is investing so much into research in this industry! Post by: Rog Mogale on January 06, 2009, 08:40:33 PM Its an easy question to answer. VSRL (Voids Sound Research Lab) is located on the Chinese Tibet boarder, where there is around a 1 to 10 difference in wages from the UK. So I get 10 people for the price of 1. Raw materials are also far cheaper as is the cost of setting up, maintaining and building such an institue. I have lived full time in China/Tibet for the last 6 years now, and only leave when I have to attend trade shows in other countries. Please note that product manufacturing is carried out within the EU. Knowledge is power and you don't bring or make SMP amps with tracking supply technology to China. They don't have it and can't do it, so you let them carry on with old expensive copper transformers and 20 year old designs that take 4 people 8 hours to assemble. All my staff work UK hours and don't work weekends, which is not the norm here. Neraly all Chinese workers only get 1 day off per month and have to sleep on hard beds with rats running around the floor. My staffs dorms don't have rats, are comfortable and have AC. We are also nearly totally self sufficient and power a lot of the plant with solar pannels. All hand basin and shower waste water is stored and is then used for WC flushing. You also need to know that we spend very little on marketing, which means that while we come across as a small company, our monthly sales are higher than most other UK manufacturers. As I said before we have at least 1 venue per day installing Void products in the EU, most other UK manufacturers are lucky to get 2 per month at this time. Rog. Post by: Paul Bell on January 06, 2009, 11:28:09 PM Personally, I don’t give a damn what others say about a product. A spec sheet to me is a starting point of what a manufacturer says his gear will do. I, as well as others, will judge a product upon hearing and using it. Many times, many of us have heard big claims and seen big numbers on paper only to be disappointed by the product. Void may be every bit as good as some say it is. Many of us will let our ears be the judge. Honestly, if one brand of speakers is that much far away better than others, everybody would know about them and use them. The truth is that with today’s technologies, professional level speakers are all within a few percentage points of each other in sound output and sound quality. Despite this message sent to me, I'm still looking forward to hearing Void speakers. ------------------------------------------------------------ - Since I have the rare ability to write as if I have a frozen chicken shoved up my bum, I'll try to phrase this nicely. Someone check for factual consistency? '1: In no way are the Void boxes anywhere near as good as the pro Turbo stuff TXD line maybe, certainly not as good as Nexo Alpha or any other high quality professional tour grade box. In fact AFAIK in the UK (where it's designed and made)no-one has any large stocks of it and it hasn't done any high profile events in fact there seems to be a few club installs of it a telling point there to me; maybe the situation is different in Macedonia.' Good sir, if you happened upon the thread's title - I believe it is about Void Stasys speakers, I would daresay that this is quite absurd. I would understand if you were talking about the 'Live' series consisting of Mycro, Basys, and Viper, as they are of the bass reflex persuasion. The statement about Nexo Alpha I understand. A quick google shows that Void is stocked by JHA, Allan Smyth, XL Pro, Paul James Promotions, among others. 'They all just seem like versions of stuff off his speakerplans website only finished a little better.' Void does not produce boxes that are SP boxes with a maroon finish. This is painfully obvious, unless you count 'front loaded bass reflex' in this (they all look about the same, funnily enough). ' in fact, the Void branded amps and dsp are chinese made oem stuff which can be found for a lot less cash if you shop around.' I suggest you don't use the turn of phrase 'In fact' in conjunction with the present tense. The Network 4 and older DSPs are known to be of such an origin (digisynthetic), but I dont think you'll be able to find the current Void LMSs and amps as easily. 'I assume you mean Andy Hunt of Matrix amplifiers "fame" ?' Now, don't be insulting. Ever been had one on the bench? Or any of Void's (especially the Infinite series). 'I would doubt that Void speakers would mop the floor against the systems I've mentioned' Please, try to hear something first, instead of reasoning with 'rider preference' which is really not a test of quality, is it? 'I've learned long ago to not pay too much attention to manufacturers specifications and measurements.' Because some trump up theirs...while others don't. 'I'm doubting that the Stasys-X dual 18 horn loaded sub will do 33Hz at -3DB. To their credit however, it looks like it has Precision Devices drivers with the five inch voice coils?' Void make their own drivers (5" VC, same size magnet), on par with PD (In some twisted golf tournament). You're not going to believe me though. Don't believe the specs? Rog's posted measurements on the speakerplans.com (which I assume are going to be labeled as inflated as well), and is using a five resonant chamber system which does do the business (If you knew Akabak, I'd ask you to simulate a shortish horn with two rear chambers, internal port tuned low, lower than horn cutoff, and other port tuned high as a low pass filter). Again, have a listen. Looking at the Stasys 3 MKII, it's listed as 45 degrees on the horizontal but just looking the the mid & high horns, it's certainly 90 degrees wide. Good luck arraying these side by side.' Please learn something about horns in general. Thank you. 'Meanwhile, it's starting to look that despite the high cost of these boxes "these speakers they are TOP$" they're not very highly regarded by the few people who've heard them.' You're the type of person who will base their entire view of a company on the comments from two or three people on a forum, one of which emanates a rank odour of smugness. Keep your spades up those arses will you. Post by: Rog Mogale on January 06, 2009, 11:54:25 PM There is only one person who is going to fight for their company and that is me. I don't condone what has been written in that private message, even though the person responsible thought they were doing me a favour. Please keep your opinions to yourself as you are doing more damage than good. There is only one person that should be pissed of and thats me, so please let me handle this. I thought we had moved on from this, but you had to drag it back. Or was your intention to make me look stupid. Post by: Rog Mogale on January 07, 2009, 12:02:15 AM And why did they not post there response like anyone else would have. Why a PM to someone that has nothing to do with this. I know as a new company with lots to offer we are making some people worried, but if you have something to say, either good or bad, go about it the right way please. I will look into this matter and try and find a resolve. Post by: Paul Bell on January 07, 2009, 12:07:01 AM Although I'm aware it is costly, do you plan on being an exhibitor at any of the trade shows on this side of the pond? Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 07, 2009, 12:20:07 AM Happy new year/// JR Post by: Nathan Short on January 07, 2009, 01:10:07 AM If anyone in the midwest wants to hear the Arcline6 and Arcline X demo rig we have, feel free to PM me. We are in Chicago Proper, and have been running demo's nearly every weekend for about a month solid. From private parties to nightclub weekends. I have been very impressed with the versatile nature of this box. Very clean, and very very loud. Its almost the dangerous situation, of remembering SPL because you just realized you can't hear yourself talk to the guy next to you. And it is not harsh at all. Anywho, I am wrecked from pulling a bunch of 20hr days in a row with 2 to go...trying to get a club I started an install at 2 years ago, up and running by friday. Forgive the disjointed ramblings. Post by: Rog Mogale on January 07, 2009, 01:30:33 AM
I certainly hope so now we have such good represention in the US. We have been doing the rounds at Frankfurt, PLASA and other shows in the UK for the last 6 years. Have also done some Middle East shows as well. I'd love to put up some pics of the demo rooms I have setup over the years, but don't think I'm allowed. Think that may come under the politics rule Post by: Marjan Milosevic on January 07, 2009, 08:44:29 AM Can you please make a topic in the Product Reviews part of the forum with some pictures and fist hand comments during the Arcline demo? Is that ok Mac? It is not against any rule here isn't it? Post by: Marjan Milosevic on January 07, 2009, 08:50:22 AM i dont know what are you plans concerning US market but if you think it is ok financially wise i would recommend sending a small Stasys3/SasysX rig (two of each per side)on the road test. People here are know for their fair comments on the product they experienced and it will do a great favor in promoting your products in the US. Regards Marjan Post by: Nathan Short on January 07, 2009, 02:12:55 PM Post by: Dick Rees on January 07, 2009, 02:23:00 PM It never ceases to amaze me how a little (or a lot) of negativity can go a LOOOOOONG way. I wouldn't worry about the crap as it is in a way self-destructive. Your coolness "under fire" speaks volumes and stands in stark contrast to the unreasoning emotional diatribes directed your way. For those of us who wish there is always this alternative: ignore all messages by this user As Mike Butler said the other day, it helps lower the noise floor. Post by: Dick Rees on January 07, 2009, 02:22:02 PM Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 07, 2009, 02:30:30 PM Since English is my native language, I blame my errors on "dyslexic fingers." Yeah... that's the ticket! Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc ps. please DO put up some reviews in that forum. Post by: Marjan Milosevic on January 07, 2009, 03:27:38 PM
Yeah, you know when you hit the box with your fist. Does it resonate on the right frequency?
Post by: Nathan Short on January 07, 2009, 07:25:16 PM
Post by: Cathal Mooney on January 08, 2009, 10:58:27 AM All the above brands were considered and we went with Void in the end.... all sound brilliant but for us the Void ticked the right boxes. For another user maybe one of the others is going to edge it but that doesn't mean Void isn't a great product, no less than our choosing Void is to say that the rest are no good. I really hope people keep their minds (and ears) open and don't blindly accept some of the rubbish in this thread. Post by: Simon Ryder on January 08, 2009, 05:23:31 PM
WORD!
Post by: Rog Mogale on January 09, 2009, 03:52:01 AM http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22687 It seems there is a market for a small time company that is not rider friendly after all. Post by: Marjan Milosevic on January 09, 2009, 08:30:43 AM
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 09, 2009, 12:23:39 PM It appears that speakerplans.com is a home for what we used to call "disco" on our side of the pond. Nothing wrong with that, per se. Personally, though, I find idiom tiresome and most of it's proponents likewise. Perhaps I should have tired different drugs in the 1970s... Not to be putting down your products or you, but we try to focus on the 'live' aspect of production on this forum. Perhaps the Install or Product Review forums would suit this topic swerve better. FWIW, I'd like to hear your gear and make up my own mind about their suitability for a given use. Hopefully you'll have more product here, or be able to exhibit at one of the trade shows. Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc Post by: Randy Pence on January 09, 2009, 09:02:02 PM what you probably will nto find there is a discussion of how to look the part when a big name production is just doing playback. I tend not to read the forum because there is too much noise, albeit from well meaning participants. Post by: Rog Mogale on January 09, 2009, 09:20:28 PM As to the recent vote. It means far more to me to have a larger number of people vote for my products on speakerplans than any other forum I know. The LAB forum is for end users. Take a look at the questions. They are mostly about how to get the best from the equipment you have at hand, or are mix related with questions on why you would want to run subs off an aux send etc. Very few here are interested from getting the buzz that comes from making your own system as it doesn’t make any business sense to do that and I can understand why. I’m not saying that owning a system for business use is bad as any man that denies another a living is a ****, but we have to remember that we serve the audience not the equipment or ourselves and that the financial reward comes from giving people a really good time and different experience. That’s how it should work in an ideal world, with everyone happy to receive their reward from how well they managed to please the audience, but for some its always going to be just business. Nothing wrong with that if you’re selling a can of beans, but unwise when you are dealing with people’s emotions. Speakerplans also has it fair share of business first pro audio users that just want a logistical solution that makes a sound, but many of the speakerplans forum members are willing to lose financially as they gain so much in other ways. Its these people that are voting for Void and if the truth be known its these people that most pro audio manufacturers have the greatest respect for, as while it may not be good for a your image or finance department, its very good for your soul. It means more to me that someone who shares the passion wants my products than a business outfit. It’s like a person who just buys works of art as an investment. It means nothing to the artist to have an investor come up to him at an exhibition and tell him how moved he is by a particular piece. That’s taking the piss to be honest and the artist will see though that straight away. The greatest reward comes from the admiration of like minded people and your peers. You really have no idea how humbled and honoured I feel from viewing the results of the poll. It’s the beginning of a new era and the poll to me reflects the new direction we have to take. Lets face it, what we have done and the way we have done it has not worked. The world is practically on the edge of collapse and everything we once knew will have to become different if we are to continue. The logistical solution that just makes a sound will not be enough soon. People are fed up with there expectations being drowned by the need of others greed. Take a look out of the window right now and you will see many of the people who have lied or used marketing to fund there greed fall like flies. The uprising has begun and those who funded their greed by deception have no place in the new order. I feel so lucky to have enough awareness to be able to see and move with the changes that have to take place. But change can bring contempt, unless you are part of the new direction and dictate its path. Post by: Mac Kerr on January 09, 2009, 10:00:07 PM Your point about the passion of people who build their own speakers may be true, many of the members here have built systems, a few still do. Building your own speakers however is a hobby. These forums were started by and for working professionals in the touring concert world. As recently as a couple of years ago discussions about DJs were not allowed on these forums. As the forums have grown over the years the audience and membership has grown and broadened, but the core of the members here are people who earn part, if not all, of their income by making audiences and artists happy on a day to day basis. We have found that it is not financial viable to spend our time trying to develop products that others have already developed. It may be a lot of fun to get into the shop and make sawdust building speakers, but it won't put your kids through college unless you want to make your living building speakers, not working with artists, in front of live audiences. The bulk of the members here are concerned about how to get the most out of their new investment because that is what businesses have to do. The financial world is in a state of flux, that may go on for a while. It may also come to be that we all have to learn to do more with less. In that case it will be even more important to learn from your peers, in forums like this, what is working for them. I believe those who have committed to their passion to work in this industry will continue to find a way to do it. For me, and I assume for a lot of others here, the satisfaction comes from a job well done, and the excitement of the audience. The fact that in our off hours we discuss how better to accomplish that with manufactured gear instead of Ohmbru is irrelevant. Mac Post by: Adam Norton on January 18, 2009, 06:06:07 AM
Thats odd, because when i used to frequent the board more often, I'm sure I used to read threads by a number of pro-audio suppliers who'd gone with the Lab-sub design as their sub of choice. I'm sure they weren't doing it just for the fun of it. Why is it that Danley's home brew sub is taken more seriously than other designers I wonder?
I think you've lost out there. I realise that in the US you tend to have 'live' and then 'DJ's' as 2 distinct groups, with nothing else, but its unfortunate that you tend to group all of the very knowledgable people who tend to be rig owners into the 'DJ' section (and then disregard them as second class people, it seems, to the 'live' group). I've posted years ago here about the sound system culture in UK and Europe and I think there is such a divide culturally (or at least with the membership of this board) that it may never be fully understood. It's interesting to hear people comments about speakerplans as a forum, esp. the bit about the noise. I think it's still doing what its always done then, which heartens me (and the noise is character building!). It's certainly never going to be (or intended to be) another PSW, and hopefully it still (sometimes) reflects what Rog intended it to be. norty303 [resident] Speakerplans admin P.S. sorry that seems to have taken the thread a little OT, its the regular company I keep...
Post by: Mike Maki on January 18, 2009, 12:00:02 PM I don't know why you took such exception to Rog's post, he essentially made the same points you did. I, for one, think you have your head up your ass. I have been a member of the Lab since it started as a mailing list and you certainly don't speak for me. I like to create. It is part of what I do and it gives me both income and satisfaction. And I will put my daughter through college (but you'll have to wait about 15 years for the proof) What have you created lately Mac? Mike Post by: Mac Kerr on January 18, 2009, 01:57:45 PM
What do you mean by this? Are you asking what speakers I've built? That's not what I do. I don't think it is viable in a pro situation as I said in the message you are responding to. What I do is design and optimize sound systems that will provide the best result for the event, whether it is a band, or a corporate event. While I work with a limited palette of gear so that I can stay familiar with it, the layout is unique to each event. When I get the opportunity to try something new I take it because it may be better than what I have been using. The likelihood of me trying a home brew design that I am not going to be able to reuse is pretty slim. In order to be able to specify systems I am confident will meet my expectations anywhere in the world I need to rely on products that are available anywhere in the world. My clients rely on me to provide that consistency of performance. So far, I've been able to provide it. Feel free to disagree. Mac Post by: Mikael Holm on January 18, 2009, 09:11:43 PM
Actually it's OEM Xilica they use as their DSP. DLP-4080A (Livedrive Plus) and DCP-3060 (Digidrive Plus) to be exact. DLP is canadian and DCP chinese made. |