ProSoundWeb Community
Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Stan Mistak on June 13, 2018, 05:40:37 PM
-
I have a soundcraft expressions si 1 digital mixer in our back of house for our worship services.
Perhaps the best thing to do is to describe what I want to be able to do and you can tell me if/how it’s possible.
I’d like to be able to have a separate mix of EVERYTHING going on in the front of house that normally goes out the main speakers that we can then send to our streaming equipment for Live streaming on facebook.
Right now we are splitting off of a matrix output to a cd recorder that records the sermons. This was set up by the pro engineer. When we started live streaming we just split off of this line that was already set up. The problem is that this line just feeds through the main mix of whatever is being heard in house. My video tech wants to be able to mix things a little differently for the live stream. For example the lead singer in the band’s voice comes accross way too loud on the live stream because you can’t hear the whole church singing with him.
So, here’s what I imagine we need to do. Set up one of our 14 mixes (I’m guessing pre-fader not post) how we would like it for the live streaming. Then, we should somehow patch it over to a matrix output. Is that correct? If so, how do I do it?
Lastly, in your opinion should our live stream audio be in stereo or mono? I notice that 2 of our 4 Matrix buttons are already set up for the sermon recording and they are patched out of what appears to be the only two stereo outputs on the back of the mixer. 1 of the remaining 2 Matrix buttons is being sent to some speakers in our foyer. So, I think I only have one Matrix button left. If I send a line from that 1 remaining Matrix output, I’m assuming it’s going to have to be a mono feed. Should I even worry about that in your opinion?
Thank you in advance for your time and expertise. My goal is get this figured out so that this live streaming can operate independantly from what’s happening for those who are actually in house. Right now the desire to mix everything favorably for the live stream is competing with the need to mix everything for those who are actually in house. Please help me to separate these interests so that they will not be in competition with one another!
-
Using a mix to separately customize the mix for the streaming feed is correct, unless you want to do a split to a separate mixer in a different isolated location to do the video mix.
A couple ways to approach it:
You can use the iPad app to mix the streaming mix while the main mix is happening on the board itself.
With the video mix bus set to post fade it will follow all of the main mix moves but within the mix bus levels you can bump up inputs that are not mixed very high in the main mix due to stage volume ect, and bring up the spoken word mic inputs that normally come out low on a recording or live stream in comparison to the live music level and you can bring the live music inputs to help the spoken word to music balance.
Use headphones to AFL monitor the mix feeding the live stream while making adjustments.
This would be a kind of find average mix balance and let it go from there, no so great if your band and inputs change every week.
The other way would be to run the mix prefade, giving you complete independent mix control except preamps, channel eq and inserts and actually mix it live via the iPad app, your would want to set some form of monitoring to do the mix with.
Another option depending on how many inputs your using and how many open inputs are on the board would be to split all the needed inputs for the live stream and bring them in on the extra channels on the board, say 1 to 8 are for the live mix and then duplicated on channels 9 to 16 for the streaming mix. That way you would have full channel control for everything going to the live stream.
Again you would want to use the iPad app to mix with headphone
or monitoring in an isolated room.
Being that your board is only 16 channels that option is probably not going to work, but it's something to think about!
Use the appropriate mixer routing to keep thing separated.
Not sure what it has evolved into but early on the Expression Si control App was a little glitchy
I wanted to add that using the mix bus for the streaming mix bring effects back into that bus would take assigning the main mix effects returns to that that buss or adding effects on the needed inputs directly on the mix bus and returning it only to that mix bus.
-
I have a soundcraft expressions si 1 digital mixer in our back of house for our worship services.
I've got one of those myself (purchased gently used from a member here who shall remain nameless ;) ).
Anyway, as you've discovered, there's no such thing as one perfect mix that works for all consumers. The first thing I think you need to set up are some House/Ambient mics to capture the sounds of the congregation and get them into the Live Stream mix. An x-y pair of small diaphragm condensers usually work well.
IMHO, I don't think you need another Matrix - just build a mix to an unused pair of Auxes. You may want to experiment with the pick-off point to those Auxes (pre-everything? post compression? post EQ? post Fader?).
The easier (read: more expensive) way to accomplish what you want is to install a Stage Box to be shared with a 2nd console that mixes for your Live Stream.
Dave
-
Anyway, as you've discovered, there's no such thing as one perfect mix that works for all consumers. The first thing I think you need to set up are some House/Ambient mics to capture the sounds of the congregation and get them into the Live Stream mix. An x-y pair of small diaphragm condensers usually work well.
Yep I forgot to mention putting up ambient mics to use in the streaming mix.
-
I wanted to add that using the mix bus for the streaming mix bring effects back into that bus would take assigning the main mix effects returns to that that buss or adding effects on the needed inputs directly on the mix bus and returning it only to that mix bus.
Mike,
First of all thank you so much for your post. That was extremely helpful! I hadn’t considered using the iPad app in that way I will definately attempt that. Sounds like I just need to experiment with pre vs. post fade.
Not sure what you meant by the add on to the end of your post. Could you clarify?
Also, would you agree with Dave Pluke that a separate matrix mix is unnecessary?
-
The first thing I think you need to set up are some House/Ambient mics to capture the sounds of the congregation and get them into the Live Stream mix. An x-y pair of small diaphragm condensers usually work well.
IMHO, I don't think you need another Matrix - just build a mix to an unused pair of Auxes.
Hey Dave,
Thank you so much for response. Together with Mike’s response above my confidence is growing for attempting to make this change.
I have been really happy with the SI Expression 1. It has been a little bit of a learning curve for me to switch to digital, especially since my knowledge is so limited, but I wouldn’t go back to my old board. The ability to save separate shows alone has been huge.
I will have to look into those congregational mics that you mentioned. We currently have one mic pointed at the congregation from the stage. It picks up a little but not nearly enough. I believe what you’ve suggested is definitely in our future, but I still want to try to separate the mixes first. Thanks for that suggestion specifically on the type of mic. That’s helpful.
I had a few follow up questions to your advice to “just build a mix to an unused pair of Auxes.” I know that “aux” is short for auxillary. I assume that simply means the xlr output ports on the back of the mixer? Why a “pair”? Is it possible to set those up as Left and Right for stereo? As these questions betray, my knowledge is only about an inch deep although I possess a general acumen for tech and am trying to learn quickly.
Thanks!
-
Not sure what you meant by the add on to the end of your post. Could you clarify?
Yep I forgot to mention putting up ambient mics to use in the streaming mix.
He is talking about "crowd mics." When you are at an event, you hear not only the band/music/their singing, but also the ambient noise in the room- people clapping, cheering, booing, throwing up, whatever. Set up a couple of mics on the downstage corners of the stage- even something as simple as SM57s, but there's lots of chatter about the best mics for this purpose. You don't send that into your house mix, but you DO send those into the stream mix. It gives the listener more of the realistic feeling of actually being in the room!
-Ray
-
Thanks Ray,
I appreciate your comment. I think you misunderstood the portion of Mike’s original post I was referring to though. I’m seeking clarification of the last paragraph of his original post. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Maybe it could be unpacked a bit?
Here’s the paragraph I’m referring to:
I wanted to add that using the mix bus for the streaming mix bring effects back into that bus would take assigning the main mix effects returns to that that buss or adding effects on the needed inputs directly on the mix bus and returning it only to that mix bus.
-
The last several aux buses (mix 8-14?) can be set to create a stereo output.
Send them to a pair of outs on the back of the mixer.
Create a mix independent from the FOH mix.
-
Thanks Ray,
I appreciate your comment. I think you misunderstood the portion of Mike’s original post I was referring to though. I’m seeking clarification of the last paragraph of his original post. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Maybe it could be unpacked a bit?
Here’s the paragraph I’m referring to:
That is for adding reverb maybe delay to say the vocal channels just for the mix going to live streaming. You should have at least one open effects processor to use for that. Once you start looking into the mix aux bus routing it will make more sense. As for the room mics you may want to bring them up and down depending on the program, bring them up some during the music (actually may not need to use any effects with adding in some of the room mics) during the spoken word parts you may want pull the room mics down.
-
I had a few follow up questions to your advice to “just build a mix to an unused pair of Auxes.” I know that “aux” is short for auxillary. I assume that simply means the xlr output ports on the back of the mixer? Why a “pair”? Is it possible to set those up as Left and Right for stereo?
Glad to see others have jumped in to help in my absence (one of the things I like about this place!). Yes, two of them, one panned Left and another panned Right.
On the Expression, you'd hit an unused "Mix" button and raise each fader to its desired level (just like with monitors). Repeat for the 2nd Mix/Aux. Effects can be sent this way, too. Those Mix Output XLRs on the back would provide signal to your streaming gear.
Dave
-
Thanks to everyone who replied to my questions.
I believe I have successfully accomplished what I set out to do thanks to eveyrone’s help.
I ended up unassigning the matrix outputs that were being sent to both my cd recorder and my streaming equipment via a splitter and reassigning them to “mix 14”. I then set that mix up as a stereo prefade output and reassigned them L and R the way they were previous set up on the matrix. That way I didn’t even have to mess with the cables. Now I can have a separate mix for my recording/streaming.
At some point soon, I hope to add the congregational mics as were suggested.
Thanks again everyone for a great first experience in this forum.
Take care!
-
Thanks to everyone who replied to my questions.
I believe I have successfully accomplished what I set out to do thanks to eveyrone’s help.
I ended up unassigning the matrix outputs that were being sent to both my cd recorder and my streaming equipment via a splitter and reassigning them to “mix 14”. I then set that mix up as a stereo prefade output and reassigned them L and R the way they were previous set up on the matrix. That way I didn’t even have to mess with the cables. Now I can have a separate mix for my recording/streaming.
At some point soon, I hope to add the congregational mics as were suggested.
Thanks again everyone for a great first experience in this forum.
Take care!
Since you set it up as prefade you are going to have to actively mix it on a remote tablet. When mics become inactive and need to be taken out of the mix, the FOH guy doing that won’t kill the mics to your mix. I would make it post fade so you only have to pay attention to the mics that need to be different in the streaming mix. Once you have corrected the balance the FOH guy can do the mix.
Mac