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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: Stan Shields on October 08, 2015, 06:12:30 PM
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Anybody have any experience using one of those small travel routers? Just running a Soundcraft mixer with an iPad.
Any thoughts on if the range would be comparable to a typical home/office style router?
Does the communication between an iPad and a mixer (no other devices) require much throughput? or is it a low-bandwidth application?
Stan
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Anybody have any experience using one of those small travel routers? Just running a Soundcraft mixer with an iPad.
Any thoughts on if the range would be comparable to a typical home/office style router?
Does the communication between an iPad and a mixer (no other devices) require much throughput? or is it a low-bandwidth application?
Stan
You are asking if some unknown device will perform better than some other unknown device? Really?
My thoughts are that you should state specific brand and model.
How do you plan to use it?
What do you need? What are your constraints? Size, price, power draw? Come on, ask a question someone can answer.
Yes, I am grumpy today 😉
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Anybody have any experience using one of those small travel routers? Just running a Soundcraft mixer with an iPad.
Any thoughts on if the range would be comparable to a typical home/office style router?
Does the communication between an iPad and a mixer (no other devices) require much throughput? or is it a low-bandwidth application?
Stan
A typical home/office style router is very portable - I take my cisco E2500 with me as a spare to my Airport Express. I can almost put it in my pocket and the Airport Express will DEFINITELY fit in my pocket. So why would you need a travel style router when they are so small anyway???
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A typical home/office style router is very portable - I take my cisco E2500 with me as a spare to my Airport Express. I can almost put it in my pocket and the Airport Express will DEFINITELY fit in my pocket. So why would you need a travel style router when they are so small anyway???
The Airport Express is what I use.
Compact and works in 2.4 qnd 5 gig bands.
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A typical home/office style router is very portable - I take my cisco E2500 with me as a spare to my Airport Express. I can almost put it in my pocket and the Airport Express will DEFINITELY fit in my pocket. So why would you need a travel style router when they are so small anyway???
Right, it sounds trivial but I'm always looking for smaller, lighter, simpler. The Netgear I use now has a wall wart with a cheesy cable, flimsy antennas, etc. The travel routers look appealing because they plug in without a wall wart and are small and solid, take up less space. Just not sure if they would work as well as a "real" router. For what they cost I guess I could take one for a spin and report back...
Stan
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Right, it sounds trivial but I'm always looking for smaller, lighter, simpler. The Netgear I use now has a wall wart with a cheesy cable, flimsy antennas, etc. The travel routers look appealing because they plug in without a wall wart and are small and solid, take up less space. Just not sure if they would work as well as a "real" router. For what they cost I guess I could take one for a spin and report back...
Stan
The Airport Express doesn't have a wall wart and is tiny.... AND very reliable.
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+1 on the Airport Express.
I have 4 total and they are rock solid, small and no wall wart. They are even simple to extend range wirelessly if needed.
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The Airport Express doesn't have a wall wart and is tiny.... AND very reliable.
Oh ..... And no external antennas...
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Oh ..... And no external antennas...
Is that a benefit? 😉
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Is that a benefit? 😉
It is for me, easier to pack, less things to break.
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It is for me, easier to pack, less things to break.
It sounds more like a personnel handling issue.
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I have a travel router, a TP Link MR2030 (http://www.tp-link.com/lk/products/details/cat-4691_TL-MR3020.html), and although it is small and handy, it has significantly less range than any other of my wireless kit. I wouldn't even consider using it in a venue to get back to the console from the iPad.
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I have a travel router, a TP Link MR2030 (http://www.tp-link.com/lk/products/details/cat-4691_TL-MR3020.html), and although it is small and handy, it has significantly less range than any other of my wireless kit. I wouldn't even consider using it in a venue to get back to the console from the iPad.
Thanks David-that's what I was looking for.
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Is that a benefit? 😉
Not necessarily but the OP mentioned flimsy antennas being one of his dislikes and I hadn't addressed that one thing in my response…..
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Stan, check out the offerings from Ubiquiti. They're pretty slick.
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Stan, check out the offerings from Ubiquiti. They're pretty slick.
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EnGenius Tech also have some appealing models. I use the ESR1200/900 series (now discontinued) that look like smoke detectors. I put a salvaged (read: broken) mic stand clip on one for elevation. For transportation it lives in the console doghouse. Flawless performance.
I also use their ENS500EXT 5gHz access points with great success but they have external antennae. Fairly robust (outdoor rated product) but I'd still not just toss one in a work box or cable trunk and expect it to have a long life.
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It is for me, easier to pack, less things to break.
I guess. There's always a trade off between ease of use and maximum performance. Wi-fi is a crappy medium for mission critical performance so I lean towards performance. Of course a lot of this will depend on your particular venue conditions. I also like to run in 5GHz only for less interference from the cell phones in the audiences pockets and with the Apple unit you can't shut off the 2.4GHz
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Stan, check out the offerings from Ubiquiti. They're pretty slick.
I'd go further than that; If you need reliable WiFi, or indeed range, then Ubiquiti are the answer. They are not the lowest cost, but they do the business. Plus they are a great company to deal with, and they actually interact with their user base. If you don't know what you need, hop onto their forums, and you'll find lots of knowledgeable people with real world experience solving your kind of problem.
(And I say they are not the lowest cost, but I'm just marveling at an Edgerouter X sitting here on my desk, which is a three port switch plus three port router in a tiny box that goes fast and has great features for a RRP of under $50, which is pretty damned low.)
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I'd go further than that; If you need reliable WiFi, or indeed range, then Ubiquiti are the answer.
Ubiquiti looks like good stuff. It seems that range is never spec'd with wi-fi products, usually just the data rate/throughput. Operating range is just as important, maybe more so, than speed for many users. Of course the client devices come into the equation as well since it's two-way so maybe most wi-fi routers/APs are created equal in terms of transmitter power? The latest high-end routers seem to have some "steering" ability now...
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I'd go further than that; If you need reliable WiFi, or indeed range, then Ubiquiti are the answer. They are not the lowest cost, but they do the business. Plus they are a great company to deal with, and they actually interact with their user base. If you don't know what you need, hop onto their forums, and you'll find lots of knowledgeable people with real world experience solving your kind of problem.
(And I say they are not the lowest cost, but I'm just marveling at an Edgerouter X sitting here on my desk, which is a three port switch plus three port router in a tiny box that goes fast and has great features for a RRP of under $50, which is pretty damned low.)
Two thumbs up for Ubiquiti. I routinely use their cheapest AirRouter successfully for smaller gigs, while the UniFi APs come out for the larger shows. All have worked perfectly, but I know a thing or two about proper deployment. Their outdoor rated UniFi APs can be had in 2.4GHz and 5GHz, but you have to choose which band you want. The added bonus is that they mount nicely to poles (in other words, whatever stand you have laying around).
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another + on u ubiquity
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Hello all! Thank you for this discussion, I am looking for a robust solution for our 3 desks, and one for me to carry in person. Naive with differences between various AP's, considering the good press that Ubiquiti is getting, and great pricing locally, I am asking advice on the following product.
https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/
Confused between the UAP-LR and UAP-PRO version, LR says longer range (183m), but only 2.4Ghz, Pro has standard range (122m) but is dual channel 5Ghz.
Our use mostly would be in crowded bars, sometimes outdoors where a 100+foot coverage would be appreciated. My personal use would often run large outdoor venues where 300feet connectivity would be welcome.
Thank you.
Sidhu
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Hello all! Thank you for this discussion, I am looking for a robust solution for our 3 desks, and one for me to carry in person. Naive with differences between various AP's, considering the good press that Ubiquiti is getting, and great pricing locally, I am asking advice on the following product.
https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/
Confused between the UAP-LR and UAP-PRO version, LR says longer range (183m), but only 2.4Ghz, Pro has standard range (122m) but is dual channel 5Ghz.
Our use mostly would be in crowded bars, sometimes outdoors where a 100+foot coverage would be appreciated. My personal use would often run large outdoor venues where 300feet connectivity would be welcome.
Thank you.
Sidhu
I have the AP pro at home (2 units at opposite ends of the house) and am in the middle of a 9 unit (+ a couple of outdoor units) install at a client. I have 5 up and running and the coverage is great. Of course, in this case, there is a lot of duct work, piping, and structural steel between floors hence the number of units.
The form factor is a bit funky for live sound use. I may buy an outdoor AC unit for my use.
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+1 on the Airport Express.
I have 4 total and they are rock solid, small and no wall wart. They are even simple to extend range wirelessly if needed.
+1 on Airport Express and a huge -3 for Ubiquity.
The Airport Express is a nice form factor and very portable. I've had decent service with Apple's WiFi products.
At work we did a Ubiquiti pilot and out of 9 or so access points, 1 was DOA, 3 make audible ticking noises with data, and the long-term deployment we did after about 9 months started dropping connections about every 90 seconds. Unless you need a multi-AP system I wouldn't even consider Ubiquiti as -reliability issues aside - the setup is significantly more complicated than a standalone product. Even if you do need a multi-AP system, we've had better luck with Apple gear.
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Even if you do need a multi-AP system, we've had better luck with Apple gear.
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Just bought an Airport express off Ebay for $40. I like the form factor and the real power cord...
Good discussion everybody.
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+1 on Airport Express and a huge -3 for Ubiquity.
The Airport Express is a nice form factor and very portable. I've had decent service with Apple's WiFi products.
At work we did a Ubiquiti pilot and out of 9 or so access points, 1 was DOA, 3 make audible ticking noises with data, and the long-term deployment we did after about 9 months started dropping connections about every 90 seconds. Unless you need a multi-AP system I wouldn't even consider Ubiquiti as -reliability issues aside - the setup is significantly more complicated than a standalone product. Even if you do need a multi-AP system, we've had better luck with Apple gear.
I'm curious as to what model AP's you used and how long ago this was. This is the first negative I've heard about Ubiquiti.We're doing a pilot project in 3 small meeting rooms with 3 AP Pro points and an Edge POE router.
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I'm curious as to what model AP's you used and how long ago this was. This is the first negative I've heard about Ubiquiti.We're doing a pilot project in 3 small meeting rooms with 3 AP Pro points and an Edge POE router.
Equipment was purchased in August and September 2014. UAP-PRO model.
There are a number of mentions on the Ubiquiti forum about the audible noise from the APs - that wasn't just us. The DOA gear could be a one-off, but the hardware seems dodgy generally. I'm used to Cisco APs that simply work. Over many years we've had generally decent luck with the various Netgear offerings, and lately have had good luck with Apple, though they don't have an enterprise form factor.
The reason we initially looked to Ubiquiti was the challenges with devices holding on too long to access points - i.e. if your device connects to the AP near the door you came in and then you walked across the building, even though you were closer to another access point, the device would hang on to the distant AP too long. Ubiquiti did help with that, however in the last year or two, device drivers on mobile devices and laptops have substantially improved, and we no longer have trouble with this using pretty much any AP platform.
For what it's worth, we are a financial company and our investment guys looked into Ubiquiti, and there are some interesting things related to the financial side of the business. Maybe it's all above board and we just had a bad batch, but we've been sufficiently burned that we're not going back. Cisco for the serious stuff, Apple for the portable/multi-AP home stuff for us.
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Equipment was purchased in August and September 2014. UAP-PRO model.
There are a number of mentions on the Ubiquiti forum about the audible noise from the APs - that wasn't just us. The DOA gear could be a one-off, but the hardware seems dodgy generally. I'm used to Cisco APs that simply work. Over many years we've had generally decent luck with the various Netgear offerings, and lately have had good luck with Apple, though they don't have an enterprise form factor.
The reason we initially looked to Ubiquiti was the challenges with devices holding on too long to access points - i.e. if your device connects to the AP near the door you came in and then you walked across the building, even though you were closer to another access point, the device would hang on to the distant AP too long. Ubiquiti did help with that, however in the last year or two, device drivers on mobile devices and laptops have substantially improved, and we no longer have trouble with this using pretty much any AP platform.
For what it's worth, we are a financial company and our investment guys looked into Ubiquiti, and there are some interesting things related to the financial side of the business. Maybe it's all above board and we just had a bad batch, but we've been sufficiently burned that we're not going back. Cisco for the serious stuff, Apple for the portable/multi-AP home stuff for us.
I have two current AP Pros here at home with no issues. I have 6 of them at a client site, again, no issues. I find them trivial to configure and get running. Perhaps a year made a big difference?
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I have two current AP Pros here at home with no issues. I have 6 of them at a client site, again, no issues. I find them trivial to configure and get running. Perhaps a year made a big difference?
In our business, I don't understand why people use the AP Pro (or any other indoor-only rated AP). I highly recommend the Ubiquiti UniFi AP Outdoor products. There are plenty of liquid hazards in our business - even indoors.
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Equipment was purchased in August and September 2014. UAP-PRO model.
There are a number of mentions on the Ubiquiti forum about the audible noise from the APs - that wasn't just us. The DOA gear could be a one-off, but the hardware seems dodgy generally. I'm used to Cisco APs that simply work. Over many years we've had generally decent luck with the various Netgear offerings, and lately have had good luck with Apple, though they don't have an enterprise form factor.
The reason we initially looked to Ubiquiti was the challenges with devices holding on too long to access points - i.e. if your device connects to the AP near the door you came in and then you walked across the building, even though you were closer to another access point, the device would hang on to the distant AP too long. Ubiquiti did help with that, however in the last year or two, device drivers on mobile devices and laptops have substantially improved, and we no longer have trouble with this using pretty much any AP platform.
For what it's worth, we are a financial company and our investment guys looked into Ubiquiti, and there are some interesting things related to the financial side of the business. Maybe it's all above board and we just had a bad batch, but we've been sufficiently burned that we're not going back. Cisco for the serious stuff, Apple for the portable/multi-AP home stuff for us.
My day gig is with an IT company. We just finished 3 new construction senior living facilities. 5-8 AP's, the Ubiquiti stuff did us well.
I have an enGenius at home (may have said Ubiquiti in the past but I logged into them last night. They have been rock solid)
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Our outdoor APs weigh like, maybe 7kg with antennas. Not the sort of thing I'd drag out to a show. :-)
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In our business, I don't understand why people use the AP Pro (or any other indoor-only rated AP). I highly recommend the Ubiquiti UniFi AP Outdoor products. There are plenty of liquid hazards in our business - even indoors.
I don't think I heard people using the AP Pro for live sound. I agree that I would use one of the outdoor units for live sound use.
The ones I have installed are indoors, mounted to ceilings, among the smoke detectors, track lights and such. Not much risk of weather damage.
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The airport express units are great for just doing short range stuff easily. They are easy to setup, are dual band, and have no external PSU, so all good.
If you want better, then the ubiquiti stuff is great. I'd stay away from the Unifi stuff though, as it has the most firmware bugs/issues and the software is better suited to sitewide deployments. I'd go for the Airmax stuff. Bullets are great and very simple, but have no MIMO. nanostations are a nice solution for longer range directional stuff.
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We spec Cisco Meraki when budgets allow. Can't beat remote access/management. I've never personally configured a Ubiquiti system but my guys hated it on the one project we used it on. Apple Airport is great for single AP installs. But my own personal 'demo/travel' router is a Cradlepoint MR95 simply because it allows for WAN over WiFi. I can turn on a hotspot on my phone/iPad and connect the Cradlepoint to it, then connect both wired AND wifi devices to the Cradlepoint
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Took my new $40 Apple Airport Express (eBay) out on three gigs this weekend, just using it between an iPad and a Soundcraft Expression. Half the size of the Linksys I had been using, no flimsy external antennas, no wall wart. Worked like a charm, got about 200ft away at an outdoor gig and was still happening. Now if I could just get rid of that white power cord ;-)
Thanks for all the good advice.
Now if you guys could only tell me how to deal with they guy who comes up in the middle of the first tune (10pc horn band) and tells me the horns are so loud he can't hear the rhythm section and so he can't dance...
Stan
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Our outdoor APs weigh like, maybe 7kg with antennas. Not the sort of thing I'd drag out to a show. :-)
After trying several different APs including Apple ones I went with the Ubiquiti Bullet M5 HP outdoor AP coupled with an Omni antenna following recommendation of this combination in several threads on this very forum.
The AP weighs 0.18kg (just over 6 ounces in Old English/American money) and the antenna adds very little.
The form factor is ideal for this job, fits in a mic clip on a stand and runs Power over Ethernet so a single cable with no AC mains required to the AP.
I did have to import the antenna from the East as I couldn't find one with the correct N connector in the UK but they are easily available in the US.
I wouldn't recommend the Unifi access points on form factor alone, they're designed to fit to a ceiling not be hauled around in the way we use them.
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We spec Cisco Meraki when budgets allow.
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I was the first Meraki dealer in Ohio. Huge fan. Now that Cisco assimilated them the recurring cost structure is out of control IMHO. Hence us now pitching Ubiquiti.
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The Bullet looks like an interesting solution, any use on the Picostation ?
https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/picostationm/
Thanks.
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The Bullet looks like an interesting solution, any use on the Picostation ?
https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/picostationm/
Thanks.
Does the Soundcraft Expression provide the +24V to the ethernet connector?
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Does the Soundcraft Expression provide the +24V to the ethernet connector?
Nope. I can't think of anything not a specific PoE Ethernet switch (or in the olden days a midspan) that provides PoE. The good news is that PoE switches are cheap.
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Nope. I can't think of anything not a specific PoE Ethernet switch (or in the olden days a midspan) that provides PoE. The good news is that PoE switches are cheap.
And many of the APs come with an injector.
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