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Title: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Jim Le Gros on May 23, 2011, 06:49:03 AM
Hi all,
I am looking for boundary mics with a cardoid pattern, these would be used as a pair of ambients for an Aviom type IEM system in a Church, Consideing the budget I am thinking about supplying Audix ADX60 mics (UK £174 or US $220ish) http://www.audixusa.com/docs/products/ADX60.shtml (http://www.audixusa.com/docs/products/ADX60.shtml) Trouble is there seems to be absoloutly no reviews around on the web (good or bad), So I supect that no one is familliar with these, please let me know if you have liked/detested these if you have tried them? I am a bit surprised that Audix have not made more effort to get them reviewd by the industry or more out there!

Any way from your experiance would you like to propose any other suitable mic products near this price range? These will be mounted on a stage area - Flat hard floor, one facing the congregation and the other picking up ambiant musician noise so it'll mostly get a lot of Drum kit, Elect guitar & Bass amp (Vocalists are'nt very strong, unfortunatley). They will have to be of reasonable build quaility as most of the sysetm is set-up every week, so I hope to get something that is fairly rugged in construction and connector quaility.

Thanks in advance,

Jim.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Jim Le Gros on May 23, 2011, 08:35:55 AM
I am also considering the BEYER MPC65v !
Will have a look at its directional qualities.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: BobWitte on May 24, 2011, 01:13:28 PM
And the intent for these mics is?

I understand the need to hear the "room" for people with In Ears.

But the band/vocals? The Aviom should be getting monitor/channel feeds from the mixer for all the instruments, vocals, etc.  A boundary mic will indeed pick up the drums well, some amps, and hardly any vocals.

Bob

I am also considering the BEYER MPC65v !
Will have a look at its directional qualities.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 24, 2011, 01:42:46 PM
And the intent for these mics is?

I understand the need to hear the "room" for people with In Ears.

But the band/vocals? The Aviom should be getting monitor/channel feeds from the mixer for all the instruments, vocals, etc.  A boundary mic will indeed pick up the drums well, some amps, and hardly any vocals.

Bob

I'm with Bob. Why would you want an ambient mic t undo all that the monitor mix has done? It seems like a waste of an Aviom control channel to me.

Mac
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on May 24, 2011, 02:13:51 PM
And the intent for these mics is?

I understand the need to hear the "room" for people with In Ears.

But the band/vocals? The Aviom should be getting monitor/channel feeds from the mixer for all the instruments, vocals, etc.  A boundary mic will indeed pick up the drums well, some amps, and hardly any vocals.

Bob

I'm with Bob. Why would you want an ambient mic t undo all that the monitor mix has done? It seems like a waste of an Aviom control channel to me.

Mac

Looks like a solution in search of a problem.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Jim Le Gros on May 24, 2011, 04:45:53 PM
Hi,
I think I have a habbit of thinking out loud in a forum such as this, so apologies to Bob & Mac.
With regard to the uses of the mics: The first is specifically requested so that the musicians can hear the congregational singing, the second is a bit less certain there will be occasions when a choral group will be singing with the band and micing may not be available or at times the drum kit may not be mic'ed, there could be other occasional purposes for it too.
The vocalists are directly mic'ed and their signals wil be routed directly back into the Aviom system I was simply commenting that there was little chance of hearing the vocalists above the louder instruments on-stage.

So if any one would like to comment on the mics I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
Jim.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: BobWitte on May 26, 2011, 12:45:52 PM
I have no data or have not used these mics.

We have always used small condenser(s) as audience mics - on a stand, aimed at the audience. Experience was with SM81, Oktava MK012. I am sure most any small condenser will work. They also will be more friendly as far as directionality and being able to adjust what is picked up based on their directionality AND if the choir is not mic'd, use the small condenser's to mic them (and send to the Aviom) or if the drumset is not mid'c, use one as an overhead or place by the right ear of the drummer aimed a the drumset (favoring the snare) and you now have a usable drum mic that can also be sent to the aviom.

The boundary mics will be of little use other than - uh, boundary mics whereas small condensers can be used in many situations....

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Frank DeWitt on May 26, 2011, 05:06:49 PM
I haven't used your choice but I have used a few Boundry mics.  Most seem to be close to Omni no matter what they say.  The big exceptions are.

Crown PCC 160 and the Bartlet TM125  http://www.bartlettmics.com/tm125-1.html

The TM-125 fits your budget and is available without the miniature connector on the end of the mic so it is more rugged

Frank
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on May 26, 2011, 05:12:21 PM
small condensers can be used in many situations....

Just a thought.

Such as "boundary" mics in the proper configuration/positioning.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Jim Le Gros on May 30, 2011, 08:04:47 PM
Hi Guys,
Thanks, your input is appreciated  :)

Experimentally I would like to try a boundary mic especially as it will not need a mic stand, and I also know that the Church would benifit from buying a few decent quality directional condensors, so I am going to see what budget we have to work with, and perhaps try a bit of both.

Thanks again.

Jim.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on June 01, 2011, 07:49:49 AM
We have always used small condenser(s) as audience mics - on a stand, aimed at the audience. Experience was with SM81, Oktava MK012. I am sure most any small condenser will work.

I've even used LD cardioids - namely Rode NT1s.

"The right answer" as to type of mic is highly dependent on the room and where you actually put the mics.

Quote
They also will be more friendly as far as directionality and being able to adjust what is picked up based on their directionality AND if the choir is not mic'd, use the small condenser's to mic them (and send to the Aviom) or if the drumset is not mid'c, use one as an overhead or place by the right ear of the drummer aimed a the drumset (favoring the snare) and you now have a usable drum mic that can also be sent to the aviom.

We currently use ECM 8000s hung by their cables over the platform as our ambience mics. 

There is some really tiny mic cable and there are some really tiny mics if appearance is a problem.

Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: EmilBarnabas on June 05, 2011, 03:29:26 PM
Crown PCC 160 is the the industry standard. I have never used them for IEMs, but have used them to record church services.
Title: Re: Ambient boundary mic?
Post by: Jim Le Gros on June 05, 2011, 07:15:13 PM
My thanks to Arnold and Emil,

I have used the Crown PCC160's before, obviously a trusted device, but in this case the budget is not there.
And the present Church arangment means that they do not have the time/luxuary to fly over-head mics, as the venue is hired (Sunday mornings only; this is a temporary arrangment), so there is aprox 1Hr 15 mins provided to get 80% of a system rigged, sound-checked and possibly a quick rehersal in (acess sunday AM's only), this includes 4-6 Channels of foldback.

At present I am interested in the Bartlet TM125 or the BEYER MPC65v  But as they also hope to buy some general purpose directional condensor Cardiod mics, I hope to squeeze in a couple of those too.

Thanks for your thoughts guys,

Jim.