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Church and H.O.W. – Forums for HOW Sound and AV - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Church and HOW Forums => Church Sound => Topic started by: Bob Heimbichner on January 29, 2015, 08:35:05 PM
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Hi everyone, I've searched and read a few topics on the durability of headworn mikes. Our church has used a pair of Countryman mikes with the 2mm cable and had them fail after about two years of near-daily use by several different users. One mike's earhook broke completely from too much bending and rebending and the other has severe crackling with either of the two cables. I'd like to find a more robust replacement, but this design seems to be inherently fragile. Among the nearly invisible type earsets, are there any that stand out as more durable than the competition? I'd like to get years of trouble-free use if that's a realistic possibility and don't mind paying for the peace of mind. Or do we need to suggest a bigger, more visible mike like aerobics instructors wear? Thanks for any direction, Bob
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Hi everyone, I've searched and read a few topics on the durability of headworn mikes. Our church has used a pair of Countryman mikes with the 2mm cable and had them fail after about two years of near-daily use by several different users. One mike's earhook broke completely from too much bending and rebending and the other has severe crackling with either of the two cables. I'd like to find a more robust replacement, but this design seems to be inherently fragile. Among the nearly invisible type earsets, are there any that stand out as more durable than the competition? I'd like to get years of trouble-free use if that's a realistic possibility and don't mind paying for the peace of mind. Or do we need to suggest a bigger, more visible mike like aerobics instructors wear? Thanks for any direction, Bob
If you got two years of daily use you probably got more than most folks.
Things like this are usually classified as "expendables" as far as inventory goes and are meant to be replaced at regular intervals. Best practice is to have spares to cover yourselves.
Otherwise, there are more and more less expensive options available all the time to help take the financial sting out of the reality that such inherently fragile low profile devices (combined with multiple-user syndrome) will need to be replaced as they wear out.
Microphone Madness is often suggested. Lower cost, decent sound quality and fairly rugged.
Nothing lasts forever. Good luck.
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Hi everyone, I've searched and read a few topics on the durability of headworn mikes. Our church has used a pair of Countryman mikes with the 2mm cable and had them fail after about two years of near-daily use by several different users. One mike's earhook broke completely from too much bending and rebending and the other has severe crackling with either of the two cables. I'd like to find a more robust replacement, but this design seems to be inherently fragile. Among the nearly invisible type earsets, are there any that stand out as more durable than the competition? I'd like to get years of trouble-free use if that's a realistic possibility and don't mind paying for the peace of mind. Or do we need to suggest a bigger, more visible mike like aerobics instructors wear? Thanks for any direction, Bob
I've had good luck with the DPA 4088. We have 4 at our church that have been around for years with no problems. The Sr. Pastor mic is at least 7 years old. Sound quality is very good. Cardioid pattern. Less susceptible to feed back.
As with any mini headset mic, it will only last as long as it is treated. We do take care of all our mics.
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If you got two years of daily use you probably got more than most folks.
Things like this are usually classified as "expendables" as far as inventory goes and are meant to be replaced at regular intervals. Best practice is to have spares to cover yourselves.
Otherwise, there are more and more less expensive options available all the time to help take the financial sting out of the reality that such inherently fragile low profile devices (combined with multiple-user syndrome) will need to be replaced as they wear out.
Microphone Madness is often suggested. Lower cost, decent sound quality and fairly rugged.
Nothing lasts forever. Good luck.
Thanks, Dick. I've heard about the MM mikes and have almost concluded that if I can't find bullet proof mikes in this category, I would order the MM mikes in bulk.
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Either get lots of cheap microphones like MM, or quality ones like DPA d:fine. They both have their place.
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Either get lots of cheap microphones like MM, or quality ones like DPA d:fine. They both have their place.
Caleb...
They are " less costly", not "cheap".
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In our experience- cheap. Not junk, we use them, but cheap.
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In our experience- cheap. Not junk, we use them, but cheap.
Are you saying they're more fragile than other mikes in this category? That's what I'm trying to avoid here. Thanks, Bob
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In our experience- cheap. Not junk, we use them, but cheap.
Define "cheap". Is that simply pejorative? How about facts or stats...
Bob...
I've used these in churches, schools, theater and personally. I've also used Countryman and some other brands. Generally speaking, structural failure occurs pretty much across the board and is primarily related to handling and usage rather than actual construction.
One advantage to the less expensive alternative (4 or 5 for the price of one) is that you can assign units to specific individuals and minimize the debilitating effect of re-shaping the wires and booms all the time. This in itself will make whatever you have last longer. You'll also be able to afford spares.
If you have a "money" channel requiring especially high voice quality, go with the not-cheap mic. Otherwise for general use the MM offerings are just fine...even if the mark-up is less when selling them to customers.
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We use MM mics on the community theater who rents our space for their musical. They are not especially gentle with mics, so we don't share the good stuff. That said, they are not cheap. Their sound quality is less than a dpa or MKE 2. It's hard to describe the difference and frankly you wouldn't hear it on any MI level speakers. They are cheap in price, to me, based on the budget I have. They are quality construction and will last as long as you treat them well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Cheap = more failures than DPA (on par with Countryman), less secure fit than DPA, and noticably lower sound quality. Cheap means it fits some applications well, and we use them there. Junk means we wouldn't use at all.
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We use MM mics on the community theater who rents our space for their musical. They are not especially gentle with mics, so we don't share the good stuff. That said, they are not cheap. Their sound quality is less than a dpa or MKE 2. It's hard to describe the difference and frankly you wouldn't hear it on any MI level speakers. They are cheap in price, to me, based on the budget I have. They are quality construction and will last as long as you treat them well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Now you're talking...
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Thanks for the responses, everyone. I've ordered new MM earsets for each user (their 30-day trial makes this a risk-free tryout). I'll post initial impressions after the mikes arrive, including build and sound quality. I'll also commit to coming back to this thread over time to provide durability updates.
The first thing I'll do is train the users concerning fitting the earsets and using the cable clips. I'll offer them a great restaurant dinner on my dime if their mike is still working after three years. :)
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Mikes arrived this morning (Wednesday). I ordered them late Saturday and they shipped on Monday from Florida to CA for $8.75 (USPS). They'll get their first tryout Thursday evening. Stay tuned. ;)
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My initial impression of the Microphone Madness earsets is very favorable:
1. Quality of construction appears equal to the Countryman mikes we used for two years.
2. Output is slightly less than a Countryman, easily compensated by changing the transmitters' sensitivity.
3. Sound quality is, to my ears, indistinguishable from the Countryman mikes. This may have something to do with the equalization I've applied. We have a Lectrosonics Aspen DSP unit controlling all inputs, and I've applied four input filters to these mikes:
(a) A low-pass Butterworth filter at 10 KHz, 18 dB/octave, to deal with high frequency feedback and room issues. The church is a traditional cross-shaped church with 40-foot domed ceiling and all hard surfaces (not even any padding on the pews). Our reverb time is up in the 3-4 second range in the vocal frequencies! It's a very difficult environment at present, but we've optimized the system for clarity and it works.
(b) A high-pass Butterworth filter at 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave, to deal with boominess.
(c) A parametric boost of 4 dB at 1700 Hz, .8 octave Q. Right in the vocal sweet spot.
(d) A parametric boost of 10 dB at 15 KHz, 1.9 octave Q. This seems extreme but the interaction with the low-pass filter results in a precise duplication of the Countryman "extra crisp" cap for the end of the microphone boom. We were using the caps with the Countryman mikes, but they kept falling off and getting lost, and the horrible change in the sound when that happened led me to use equalization instead.
So I left all of those filters in place when using the new mikes and they sound excellent.
As I mentioned, I'll come back to update this thread regarding durability over time. At the first sign of trouble, I'll post up, so if you're reading this and don't see updates, it means the mikes are still working.
Thanks for the help and guidance, everyone. Bob
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Good to hear that it's working for you. Good luck with getting the users to commit to proper handling and maintenance. With care they should do the job for you for a good while.
DR
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Time for an update. Oy, the mikes didn't last as long as I hoped. The pastor broke his after only two months, fixed for free under warranty. Now the other two also have broken cables after only five months of use. Perhaps the users are clumsy but that's three for three....The mikes cost about 1/3 of what a Countryman costs but aren't lasting 1/3 as long as the almost two years we got from a Countryman, so we'll go back to Countryman when these are no longer usable. A shame. Of course, a really gentle user could make these last and the sound quality is fine, so in the right hands the mikes are good, just not in the hands of our church's users. YMMV. -Bob
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Time for an update. Oy, the mikes didn't last as long as I hoped. The pastor broke his after only two months, fixed for free under warranty. Now the other two also have broken cables after only five months of use. Perhaps the users are clumsy but that's three for three....The mikes cost about 1/3 of what a Countryman costs but aren't lasting 1/3 as long as the almost two years we got from a Countryman, so we'll go back to Countryman when these are no longer usable. A shame. Of course, a really gentle user could make these last and the sound quality is fine, so in the right hands the mikes are good, just not in the hands of our church's users. YMMV. -Bob
If they have to buy their own the mics will last a LOT longer.
Charge the users for repair/replacement.
I'm not kidding...
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Everything works that way, Dick, LOL.
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i have used countryman e6 for 6+years at my previous church
we assigned an e6 to pastor and 1 to assistant shaped for them , w/short course on seating the ball connector and keeping them in the case when not in use...... no problems
the cheapees go to everyone else
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If they have to buy their own the mics will last a LOT longer.
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The first one won't but the next one will last forever.
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that must be why the assistant pastor is moving back to idaho.........
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We use a Rode HS1 as our main headworn, with an MM as our second/backup mic.
The MM is fine for the price, but nowhere near as comfortable to wear as the Rode, and the sound quality of the Rode is noticeably better.
Another plus point of the Rode is that the cable is replaceable without replacing the entire mic, although the Micon adapter at the transmitter end is far too fragile.
But again, we've found nothing really wrong with the MM, but would definitely go for another Rode if we could afford one.
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Has anyone ever tried to armor the cable ends where the breaks occur with something like Sugru:
https://sugru.com/about
The linked page shows it being used to provide strain relief for a USB cable. This could be helpful because the mike cables are already assembled and extra heat shrink tubing can't be applied.
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At our place the pastor's mic is for the pastor exclusively - the other ministers get to share - since we started doing things this way, the wear and tear on the 'money mic' has gone down substantially. We have seen the preaching responsibilities shared a bit more lately and have started having 'regular' mics for the others as well - this has helped root out the 'less than gentle' users.
There are many headworn options available - some love the E6, the DPA is an excellent mic - we've got one minister that grabbed one of the Pyle Pro mics from the youth musical stash and prefers it :o
Some that don't like the ear configuration of the E6 might be happy with the Audio Techica BP892
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Cable/connector life can be extended by ALWAYS stress-relieving the cable with the little alligator clip thingies to put the weight of the cable onto the collar of the user rather than letting it dangle.
There are also tricks at the transmitter end to keep the stress away from the critical points.
And then there's the issue of STEWARDSHIP as opposed to ritual sacrifice...
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You can bet I've pounded the use of the collar clip into their awareness. The problem is that the wire inside the cable is about the diameter of a human hair, and I've mentioned that to the users--handle it like human hair and it will last. I want them to do that AND I want more armor on that cable if possible. With the latest two mikes I've sent in for repair, I asked for more shrink tubing for strain relief and we'll see if I get it. Regardless of the answer on shrink tubing, I'll also ask whether using Sugru would void the warranty and if not, I'll try that too. The Sugru looks useful.
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This hasn't been the best week for these mikes at our church--the pastor broke his again so it's in the mail for repair. The last repair took about a month so we're in a bit of a pickle with all three mikes out of commission.
I'm going to post a new topic asking if anyone has encountered a totally wireless solution that is more reliable than the Samson Airline Micro, which has the battery and transmitter on the ear like a bluetooth mike. The concept looks ideal--no cable to a belt pack to break! But the anecdotal failure rate in the Amazon reviews is way too high to try the Samson and I haven't found anything else like it.
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Our clients have had great success with the Que Audio headsets. Cable easily replaced...very comfortable and confidence inspiring fit. Previosly available as DaCappo.
http://queaudiousa.com/PortfolioItems/q-da12-headworn-microphone/
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With a high failure rate I would definitely get something with a replaceable cable and order several cables. I always keep extra cables in stock for our headset microphones so they can be replaced in a moments notice. The only thing I can't fix on the spot is a broken ear piece. We have only had one ear piece break on us since we started using them.
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Isn't the E6 available with a "Duramax" 2mm cable out of the custom shop? based on how many of these you're running through, it might be a less expensive option (net)...
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That's true, and it's the cable we used with the Countryman mikes. Our users were able to make the Countryman mikes fail in other ways--the cable's micro connector didn't impress me as being completely robust. But if we could confine failures to an annual replacement of the $60 2mm cables, that would indeed be the least costly long term solution. I might be able to do that if I armor the connections with Sugru.
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I work at an audio rental place, and we're now phasing out our Countryman E6's for earsets from Point Source Audio. Sound quality is still decent, but the construction seems much more robust. Too early to tell on reliability, but initial tests were very promising.
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Thanks, Scott. How long have you had them in use? Keep us posted. Bob
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Well, the pastor broke his mike for the third time since February so it's in the mail for repair. We're ordering a pair of Country E6s and hoping that the replaceable cables will keep them operational. Some people are just extremely rough on equipment! And he's a gentle, nonimposing little guy! ???
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Well, the pastor broke his mike for the third time since February so it's in the mail for repair. We're ordering a pair of Country E6s and hoping that the replaceable cables will keep them operational. Some people are just extremely rough on equipment! And he's a gentle, nonimposing little guy! ???
I have to give a shout out to Microphone Madness's customer service. This third repair was for accidental damage--the cable was torn into two pieces from being pulled in some accidental way. I informed MM that the damage was accidental and asked for an invoice if the repair was not covered under warranty. (All warranties I've ever read exclude accidental damage since it's not considered "normal use.") They repaired it for free and are sending it back to me today. And this is the third repair. That is just exceptional customer service. The quality of these mikes is fine, and with proper handling I have no reservations recommending them very highly. We just need something built like a basilica. :-[