Mark Simpson wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 11:24 |
Do the Berhinger units provide phantom power? If so, this becomes a very viable solution... |
Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 13:02 | ||
Yes. Lots of info available here, or here. Mac |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 09:32 |
Outdoors you also have, potentially, heat to deal with. Consoles designed for indoor use may have more problems outdoors as they are designed for more controlled environments. |
Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 15:42 |
The 02R and 03R were intended as project studio boards, |
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but I think the main drawback is the lack of mic inputs. |
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That is easily remedied. |
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I think Arnold Krueger has been happy with his 02R. |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Mon, 14 June 2010 20:46 |
A typical computer also won't take ambient temps of over 100. I've done shows for a week at a time where it's been 105 - 115 every day. No computers would tolerate the heat of the day where we were. Not even in the shade. That sort of temp requires some cooling. At least dry ice and fans. His, Lee Buckalew Pro Sound Advice, Inc. |
Mark Simpson wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 10:05 |
My personal system is getting close to the point where maybe I can start hiring it/me out for live events. |
Mark Simpson wrote on Tue, 15 June 2010 07:52 |
The 02r96's are out of my price range for a while... What I don't like about the presonus units is the lack of motorized faders.. If I'm going to be using layers, I want the fader positions to reflect the current layer in use, so that 'at a glance' I can see what's going on... And I don't want to have to move the fader a lot, to get to the current fader position to make a minor adjustment... Not to mention, they are even more out of my price range... |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Mon, 14 June 2010 21:46 |
A typical computer also won't take ambient temps of over 100. I've done shows for a week at a time where it's been 105 - 115 every day. No computers would tolerate the heat of the day where we were. Not even in the shade. That sort of temp requires some cooling. At least dry ice and fans. His, Lee Buckalew Pro Sound Advice, Inc. |
George S Dougherty wrote on Tue, 15 June 2010 09:36 |
With adequate airflow, 100 degrees will still cool down a 150 degree part. Not as well as 65 degree air will, but it will. |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Tue, 15 June 2010 10:42 |
I am not aware of any computers that are rated for ambient air temperatures over 100 degrees but it sounds like there are some that will work. The cooling requirements would be massive. I would be curious to know what the core temperatures are when those systems are running in 110 degree ambient air temperatures. In 75 degree temps most of these systems that I have seen run around 110 - 140 degrees. I would anticipate that, without liquid cooling or some type of AC that the cores, in 110 degree ambient temperatures, would be running over 200 degrees. But, I may be off. Possibly a topic for a different thread butI am being told that SSD's actually lose drive space over time, with use. Have you run into this being a problem or seen it having any effect yet? His, Lee Buckalew Pro Sound Advice, Inc. |
Brian Ehlers wrote on Tue, 15 June 2010 11:23 | ||
What is "adequate airflow?" I'm pretty sure that you are not qualified to answer that question. I don't mean that as a slam; I'm saying that you were not the designer of the motherboard, you don't know enough about the thermal properties of the CPU's die, its package, the heatsink, and the fan, and you don't posses the thermal modeling software necessary to guarantee reliable operation. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of that.) There are two main concerns when running components at high temperatures. First, the timing characteristics (both inside and outside the chip) are affected, generally getting slower. At some point, a critical timing parameter may be missed. The result could be anywhere from an insignificant data error to a complete crash. Second, a component's lifespan is exponentially reduced by high-temperature operation. So your failure may be looming on the horizon. Just because you've gotten away with it once or multiple times doesn't mean that you, or anyone else, won't have problems the next time. Operating any device outside the manufacturer's recommendations (perhaps more accurately called the engineer's limits) is asking for trouble. If you buy a new sports car whose manufacturer specifies premium fuel, but you decide to run it on 87 octane, because it seems to work fine, you're playing with fire and likely causing damage you won't see until the day it finally breaks. Please note, my comments are not directed at SAC or PCs but at all electronics. If you use beyond recommendations, it would be wise to have a back-up plan. Actually, this is one area when you could make a strong case for SAC. There are many manufacturers of ruggedized PCs intended for harsh environments. You could create a mixing rig much better suited for hot and dusty use than any mixing console with faders. But your average PC is not intended for such usage. Do you have any idea how much money corporations spend keeping their IT equipment in perfectly air-conditioned rooms? |
Brad Weber wrote on Tue, 15 June 2010 05:59 |
I don't know exactly what you envision doing or what your potential competition is doing and this is getting more into a LAB Lounge rather than Church Sound topic, but if you are planning on doing this as a business then you need to look at the equipment as an investment. |
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That does not mean necessarily having to buy the latest and greatest, but it can mean making sure that whatever you purchase supports the envisioned use, is reliable and is acceptable to your potential clients. It's sometimes not so much what you can afford as it is what is required to be viable from a business perspective or what offers the greatest return on investment. |
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Rather than purchasing based on what you think you can afford now, you may find that a viable business plan means either scaling back your initial goals or scaling up your initial investment. |
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Put simply, if this is really a business venture then buy equipment that makes sense from a business perspective and not just what fits whatever budget you happen to have at the time. |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Tue, 15 June 2010 04:46 |
A typical computer also won't take ambient temps of over 100. |
Brad Weber wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 07:45 |
Sorry if I misunderstood your comment "My personal system is getting close to the point where maybe I can start hiring it/me out for live events." That made it sound like you did plan to do this as a business. While you can call it what you want, if you are charging for the service, much less profiting from it, then it is a business. That means that clients should be able to expect an appropriate level of quality and professionalism as well as your providing proper insurance coverage, having proper licensing, paying property tax on your business property (e.g. your system), etc. If all you can afford is a $500 mixer then that is fine, just please don't start trying to lead clients to believe that what you offer is comparable to what others offer when it is not. And if you plan to charge anything then do address the issues such as a business license, taxes, insurance, etc. as those are not only there to protect both you and your clients, but are typically legally required. |
Dick Rees wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 12:57 |
Mr Simpson..... Sorry you're in such pain. Please consider local professional help for your problems. |
Mark Simpson wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 12:46 |
PS.. I report 'every' dime I make, even accounting for returned bottles and cans! So don't 'even' go there! |
Dick Rees wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 09:57 |
Mr Simpson..... Sorry you're in such pain. Please consider local professional help for your problems. |
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LOL.. Gimme a break!!!.... There is a level of service for every level of client and need... Not everything is a full blown concert, nor can every client afford to pay for such... The $400-500 I might charge (or in some cases just expenses plus a love offering) for a days full of work would be more than worth it to many to have the sound system 'handled'... |
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But I tell you the truth, there are a lot of small systems out there being rented hired out that offer a 'heck of a lot' less than I do, and the clients are very happy to have hired them.. Because it beats the heck out of hollering through a bull horn! |
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ust please don't start trying to lead clients to believe that what you offer is comparable to what others offer when it is not. |
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How many people do you know that go out and get 'insurance' for their 5G wedding or their easter sunrise service for their own small church?... |
Robert Whittemore wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 10:37 | ||
Once again...you were not accused of wrongdoing. You take everything as an attack. Relax. |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 10:58 | ||||||||
Agreed.
This is true and it's why Brad said
Many of us see this when folks compare a 24 channel console and a 24 channel console but one is a Midas and the other is a Mackie. Not apples and apples. As long as gear is correctly represented, no problem.
All churches that I personally know of have liability policies that cover all of these types of events. As far as weddings, most venues insurance covers but, if you are privately contracted and one of your cables trips someone and they break an ankle, you may be liable. This is something many smaller contractors struggle with even if it's not a requirement. My recording partner's company has considerable insurance to cover a mic accidentally damaging a Stradivarius or some other multi million dollar instrument, this seemed a better option than having the company go bankrupt but, only after we had reached a certain size. I personally have relatives who hired a local handyman to paint part of their house. He needed the money, they were helping out somebody in the community, etc. This man hit his head on the 150 year old basement doorframe that was undersized by current code (although, nothing required it to be larger due to it's age). He required stitches, etc. An attorney got ahold of this and the man won the case against my nearly 90 year old great grandfather. It cost him 10's of thousands of dollars because he tried to help somebody out and the guy didn't have the insurance he should have so, the liability transferred to my great grandfather. Point is, we need to be careful even when helping out somebody because unforeseen problems can create huge unintended consequences. His, Lee Buckalew Pro Sound Advice, Inc. |
Robert Whittemore wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 10:36 | ||
LOL! Seriously, if you are coming to this forum for help and opinions...don't get all riled up when someone tries to actually help you. You were given great advice and chose to go off the deep end instead of saying, "thank you". |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 10:58 |
Many of us see this when folks compare a 24 channel console and a 24 channel console but one is a Midas and the other is a Mackie. Not apples and apples. As long as gear is correctly represented, no problem. |
Robert Whittemore wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 11:26 |
At least we can now all admit that it is a "business venture"... |
Robert Whittemore wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 11:34 |
I think you are right. The new law states that if using Mackie equipment...it does not constitute as running a business. |
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Lee, I am more concerned with whether or not the church or org has insurance that covers 'my' stuff should someone run into it with a truck or some kids in their youth group decide they'd like to suddenly 'own' what I have, than someone suing me because they tripped on my mic cords.. Suing me, would be an exercise in futility... I have nothing worth suing for... Kind of a blood out of rock deal... |
Mark Simpson wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 11:10 |
... but I am just very sensitive about arrogance and self righteousness ... |
Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 12:06 | ||
Wow, Homer, you need to take a look in the mirror. -a |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 12:05 | ||
Just write it into your agreements/contracts that way. Don't forget that you can be held liable against future earnings. It's all a game of cost vs. benefit and often the cost does outweigh the benefit for smaller business'. His, Lee Buckalew Pro Sound Advice, Inc. |
Robert Whittemore wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 12:51 |
The problem is that no one here has ever made accusations against you. Everytime people mention legal or moral issues you act as if they already accused you of breaking them. No one did that. They just mentioned them and you go off the deep end. When advice is asked on anything it is wise to make sure the person asking the question or seeking advice is aware of any legal or moral ramifications. That is all anyone has tried to do here. |
Lee Buckalew wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 15:05 | ||
Just write it into your agreements/contracts that way. Don't forget that you can be held liable against future earnings. It's all a game of cost vs. benefit and often the cost does outweigh the benefit for smaller business'. His, Lee Buckalew Pro Sound Advice, Inc. |
Dick Rees wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 13:17 | ||||
I find the above highlighted statement quite remarkable. It essentially places a higher value on property over the well being of a brother or sister. |
Mark Simpson wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 13:47 |
Life is a very messy minefield.. If you haven't figured that out by now, then you are either very young and idealistic.. or aren't paying attention and have thus far not had to personally make decisions where you have to choose between several paths where 'all' of them have limitations and/or pitfalls.. and all I have to say to that, if it is the case.. is 'your' life is anything but typical, and you might want to just be extremely thankful for that as opposed to looking down on others (virtually everyone else) who have to make hard choices over the course of their lives...... Either that, or you're just in the habit of extending more grace to yourself than to others... |
Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 14:24 |
Jessica, you're such the drama queen. You act as if you're the only person ever who has any any tsuris in his life. Your incessant whinging simply informs us that you've a got a victim complex a mile wide. Man up and get over yourself. -a |
Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 17:24 | ||
Jessica, you're such the drama queen. You act as if you're the only person ever who has any any tsuris in his life. Your incessant whinging simply informs us that you've a got a victim complex a mile wide. Man up and get over yourself. -a |
Mark Simpson wrote on Tue, 15 June 2010 06:52 |
What I don't like about the presonus units is the lack of motorized faders.. If I'm going to be using layers, I want the fader positions to reflect the current layer in use, so that 'at a glance' I can see what's going on... And I don't want to have to move the fader a lot, to get to the current fader position to make a minor adjustment... |
Tim Padrick wrote on Mon, 12 July 2010 07:57 | ||
The Presonus has only one layer, so unless one is changing scenes during active audio, the lack of flying faders is not much of a negative. |