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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: Tim Talbot on February 13, 2011, 07:46:26 PM
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Does anybody on here stock the Danley products in the UK ?
I've read so much about these designs & products and what he seems to offer would suit what we're looking for down to a T.
Anybody ??? :)
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Does anybody on here stock the Danley products in the UK ?
I've read so much about these designs & products and what he seems to offer would suit what we're looking for down to a T.
Anybody ??? :)
I think asking Danley (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/contactdanley.html) who stocks their products in the UK would be a start.
Mac
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I think asking Danley (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/contactdanley.html) who stocks their products in the UK would be a start.
Mac
I've been down this road with no such luck as of yet :?
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Anyone ? ( Still no reply from Danely )
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Anyone ? ( Still no reply from Danely )
Who have you contacted? Try [email protected] or [email protected] or call the office 770-535-0204.
As with a lot of professional products, they are usually not "stocked" items, but rather shipped on order.
There is lots of demo gear out there and around (not sure about the UK however).
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Looks like there isn't one Danley product in the UK :( oooh well
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Looks like there isn't one Danley product in the UK :( oooh well
There is a user in Denmark with several Danley products. Frederick Rosenkjaer, I think. While it's not trivial to get from the UK to Denmark, it's easier than going to the USA or waiting for a dealer network to develop.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
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As you all know the UK is mad about sub and sub bass cabinets and the Danley products look like they could just well wipe the floor with everything else we have here.... i guess we'll have to wait & see :)
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As you all know the UK is mad about sub and sub bass cabinets and the Danley products look like they could just well wipe the floor with everything else we have here.... i guess we'll have to wait & see :)
For an idea of how Tom Danley designs things, you can audition the LABsubs (or LABhorn) as there have been a bunch built in the UK. I think Dave Wohlford (?) has a bunch he takes to Nottinghill Fest. A search of the PSW FUDforums will probably yield results. The LABsubs are conventional horns and not the Tapped Horns for which Tom has been granted patents, but will give you some insight. The LABs are physically larger than similarly-performing tapped horns, too.
If you go to the FUDforums "Product Review" forum you'll find comments from some of the 2007 New York City Sub Shootout participants. Paul Bell graciously arranged for a venue, amplification, power distribution, shipping and receiving... and we got to come and listen. Besides Danley, other notable subs came from BassMaxx (David Lee); LM Acoustics (the Quakes); Eona-ADR; and JTR Loudspeakers (Growlers). The BassMaxx Triple Twelve generated an Environmental Police complaint from a 5th floor tenant... in a building across the street.
There are more choices than ever for subwoofers. While I like and respect Tom & his crew, they're not the only game and I think you should listen to as many different models as possible. Also don't forget that unless you set up the rig and are mixing the performance, everything you're hearing is being subjected to another person's idea of How Things Should Sound. As such, you might not be getting a full (or proper) understanding of what the DUT is capable of.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
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I know all about the EM quake subs as i've used 24x to cover 1500people once... very nice indeed but need to be used in big blocks of 4 or more.
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The BassMaxx Triple Twelve generated an Environmental Police complaint from a 5th floor tenant... in a building across the street.
Try lining up 16 sometime and see what happens..... ;)
(http://fowleraudio.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Main-Stage-subs-16-BASSMAXX-300x225.jpg)
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Am i right in saying that maryland sound stock something like 100x EM Quakes ??
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Try lining up 16 sometime and see what happens..... ;)
(http://fowleraudio.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Main-Stage-subs-16-BASSMAXX-300x225.jpg)
Holy Sh!t!
How many people were you playing to with that monster.
And I thought I was excessive putting in 12 Nexo S2s to cover 1700 people.
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Holy Sh!t!
How many people were you playing to with that monster.
And I thought I was excessive putting in 12 Nexo S2s to cover 1700 people.
Ultra Music Festival, 2008. Estimates of the main stage attendance for headliners is 60-70K. This is not excessive, it's what it takes :-)
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Ultra Music Festival, 2008. Estimates of the main stage attendance for headliners is 60-70K. This is not excessive, it's what it takes :-)
Am very impressed you can cover 70,000 with only 16 subs... over here they use around 50 subs to cover 70,000.
And I thought was excessive putting in 12 Nexo S2s to cover 1700 people.
There's a venue in London which uses 16x S2's to cover 1000cap venue..... maybe the UK is subbass mad lol lol
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Am very impressed you can cover 70,000 with only 16 subs... over here they use around 50 subs to cover 70,000.
There's a venue in London which uses 16x S2's to cover 1000cap venue..... maybe the UK is subbass mad lol lol
Doug will have to answer with the details, but IIRC those were *part* of the sub arrays.
Also the deployment gives the ground-based subs a great deal of forward directivity (there is some electronic processing going on, too, I suspect).
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Doug will have to answer with the details, but IIRC those were *part* of the sub arrays.
Also the deployment gives the ground-based subs a great deal of forward directivity (there is some electronic processing going on, too, I suspect).
There were some other BASSMAXX subs scattered about, but the Trips carried the water. Harry was on that one as well, we turned the Trips down 14dB IIRC to get things balanced.
I can't remember what they were powered with.
It was deceptively loud. The horn loaded stuff doesn't 'sound as loud' as some of the other arrangements.
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Doug will have to answer with the details, but IIRC those were *part* of the sub arrays.
Also the deployment gives the ground-based subs a great deal of forward directivity (there is some electronic processing going on, too, I suspect).
We find this as well and always try and get all the bass cabinets in a nice big center block mono summed... we have also found this helps give a lot of the sound off the stage ( somehow )
Do you have other pictures of this festival ? What were the midtops ?
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Am very impressed you can cover 70,000 with only 16 subs... over here they use around 50 subs to cover 70,000.
There's a venue in London which uses 16x S2's to cover 1000cap venue..... maybe the UK is subbass mad lol lol
Which venue?
I put the 12 S2s in the main room of SE1. It did very funny things to your insides.
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Ultra Music Festival, 2008. Estimates of the main stage attendance for headliners is 60-70K. This is not excessive, it's what it takes :-)
60k+ people explains it. ~That is not a lot of speakers to cover that many people with. Whilst eaxh trip is very heavy it must be quite a saving on the truck pack.
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Which venue?
I put the 12 S2s in the main room of SE1. It did very funny things to your insides.
Am on about SE1 ...... which was home to alot of Nexo kit as am sure you know. (All d&b J now thou)
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Am on about SE1 ...... which was home to alot of Nexo kit as am sure you know. (All d&b J now thou)
Big topic swerve here - my fault, sorry.
They did indeed have a large pile of Nexo.
The main room was 2 x S2, 9 x B1 and 3 x M3 per side in the main stacks. Further down the room were a B1 and an M3 per side as delays and in the back lobby area; 1 x B118 and 1 x EM per side. All amplification was Crown MA with an XTA DP226 as a global routing processor going into Nexo NX241s.
The largest system I ever put in that room to was:
2 x B118 and 1 x EM per side as DJ monitors
Main front stacks as above supplemented with a mono block of 4 x S2s and 2 x PS15s
1st Delay stacks of 1 x S2 per side, 4x B1 per side and 2 x M3 per side
2nd Delay stacks of 2 x B118 per side and 1 x EM per side
AND a supplemental mono stack in the rear lobby of 2 x S2 and 2 x B118 to supplement the hangs of B118 / EM per side.
Total amps used on this were:
15 x MA5000
4 x MA3600
2 x MA2400
Quite a lot for 1700 people. Lot of positive comments back from punters and DJs though.
Swerving back to Danley:
I for one would love to see some of his products over here and am very interested in auditioning some.
I also want to see a Bassmaxx Trip (or 16 ;D)
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So you work for Systems Etc then ?
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So you work for Systems Etc then ?
Used to. Over the last 5 or 6 years I have tended to handle special clients and contracts for them rather than any run-of-the-mill stuff.
I tend to be kept pretty busy by my own firm and my touring clients these days as well as Dobsons, SBD, PF Events, Alstublieft and a whole host of others.
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There were some other BASSMAXX subs scattered about, but the Trips carried the water. Harry was on that one as well, we turned the Trips down 14dB IIRC to get things balanced.
I can't remember what they were powered with.
It was deceptively loud. The horn loaded stuff doesn't 'sound as loud' as some of the other arrangements.
doug, were the other bassmaxx cabinets front loaded or horn loaded? do you remember what processor was used to align the stacks, i am assuming the other subs were at stage left/right stacked or flown.
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Used to. Over the last 5 or 6 years I have tended to handle special clients and contracts for them rather than any run-of-the-mill stuff.
I tend to be kept pretty busy by my own firm and my touring clients these days as well as Dobsons, SBD, PF Events, Alstublieft and a whole host of others.
Is it Alstublieft that use Noise Control ??
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doug, were the other bassmaxx cabinets front loaded or horn loaded? do you remember what processor was used to align the stacks, i am assuming the other subs were at stage left/right stacked or flown.
Sheldon - the other BASSMAXX boxes were Z5000s. It looks like a horn design to me, maybe David Lee will chime in. They were stacked on the outside of the line of trips maybe 50-60 feet. Processor - don't know how it happened, but the delay tap box somehow never made it on site. That left us with a deadly beam of bass and not much on the outsides. Fortunately, the physical placement of the Z5000s mitigated it 'enough' to make it 'OK'. Also in our favor was the fact that not many people were outside the area being service by the Trips, so it pretty much worked out although of course I would have _really_ liked to have some DSP. Oh well.
Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you. We only got chewed on a tiny bit.... :-)
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Is it Alstublieft that use Noise Control ??
Yes. I have rather a lot of it available. We are doing Alexandra Palace with it in 3 weeks time. As with all products that don't have EAW, Nexo, Meyer or D&B in their name it can be hard to gain acceptance for a pretty amazing product. Once people hear it, they tend to walk away with a big smile. There was a shootout at the Roundhouse just before Christmas With Funktion One, Turbo, Void and NCA all putting massive rigs in there.The NCA system was voted the best in the competition by the judges, punters, artists and producers (except the ones with their own bias).
NCA have a particularly sick prototype quad 12 sub at the moment. 4 x 12 inch drivers on the end of a very large horn. A block of 4 of them is frankly frightening. The design isn't ready for release yet. It would be interesting to stack a few of them up against a few Bassmaxx Trips.
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Yes i heard about this.... I also heard that the votes were based on the music played and not the systems...... I've been told by a few there that the Void system was crazy that night but a bit too much for some lol
What did Turbosound bring with them ?
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Yes i heard about this.... I also heard that the votes were based on the music played and not the systems...... I've been told by a few there that the Void system was crazy that night but a bit too much for some lol
What did Turbosound bring with them ?
A massive pile of Aspect.
From what I hear (mostly from the NCA guys surprisingly enough) Turbo didn't get a fair crack of the whip. Their DJs (Goldie and Metalheadz) just ran their mixer into clip, rather marring what apparently sounded like a superb system in sound check.
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Ummmm not the biggest fan of Aspect but it is LOUD.... Would you rate NCA up there with d&b and Meyer then ???
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Ummmm not the biggest fan of Aspect but it is LOUD.... Would you rate NCA up there with d&b and Meyer then ???
The completely honest answer is that it is getting there. It is close in transparency to D&B (I mix symphony orchestras through it as well as rock and new algorithyms are being worked out all the time) and in some applications beats them hands down. In short, if you want a large format point source system, it is truly world class. They don't yet have a line array (and, to my knowledge, no plans for one either) and in those aplications that a line array excells at I would use Q or J. We have had crowds of 120,000 in front of an NCA stage and have it in Alexandra Palace (6000 cap) in a couple of weeks time.
The biggest bonus point over D&B is that it is around half the price. As well as the hardcore dance stuff, we have had the likes of Michael Nyman's engineer raving about its sound quality and how it just captured the magic of the Stradivarius that the lead violinist plays.
As for SPL, it is well up there.
It is a good system and I am proud to use it.
( I also use D&B Q, J and Nexo Alpha and PS systems on a very regular basis)
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Ummmm might have to have a play with this NCA kit.... what NCA product keeps up with Quake or betters it ??
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Ummmm might have to have a play with this NCA kit.... what NCA product keeps up with Quake or betters it ??
That would be the WMD 1803
Like the Quake it is a large format horn with a single 18". Very different horn design though
http://www.noisecontrolaudio.com/products_wmd1803.html (http://www.noisecontrolaudio.com/products_wmd1803.html)
One thing to bear in mind is that the SPL figures that they quote are real world figures that have been measured with the product delivering that output CONTINUOUSLY and surviving very happily.
I still want to hear some Danley and Bassmaxx products though!
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Thanks Simon i'll check it out... have you heard to Quake sub by the way ?
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Thanks Simon i'll check it out... have you heard to Quake sub by the way ?
I certainly have. They are extremely good indeed, a block of 8 to 16 of them is monstrous. Interestingly they didn't do too well in the sub shootout archived in the old PSW pages. They let out smoke quite early on but this may have been due to insufficient limiter protection.
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Thanks Simon i'll check it out... have you heard to Quake sub by the way ?
I certainly have. They are extremely good indeed, a block of 8 to 16 of them is monstrous. Interestingly they didn't do too well in the sub shootout archived in the old PSW pages. They let out smoke quite early on but this may have been due to insufficient limiter protection.
I haven't read that thread in a while, but I was there, and the Quake was considered among the best subs tested that day.
Mac
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I haven't read that thread in a while, but I was there, and the Quake was considered among the best subs tested that day.
Mac
On the second day (the listening day) the "rules" changed when the Quake had its turn for listening.
Up until then the overall volume was kinda limited-I don't remember where or how-it has been awhile. But the Quake guys said " Let er rip" and give it all you got-we don't care if it tears up. And that is exactly what was done. The limit was found.
But to the casual observer who was not there-all they read was "the Quake blew up". But it was also producing more output-because the input was also higher than the subs that went before-DUH! That is what happens when yo keep going.
Not exactly the same story.
That is why it is so very important to get the WHOLE story-before decissions are made-especially opinions on the internet based on hearesay. And why attending such events is a good thing.
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Was it a bloke of 4 Quakes or more ? - What was powering them ?
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Was it a bloke of 4 Quakes or more ? - What was powering them ?
I think it was 2-but might have been one-it was number of years ago-but not 4 cabinets.
Powersoft was the power-10K's I think.
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The ''Quake'' bin is meant to be a bloke of 4 cabinets .. not 1 not 2 or 3 but 4 thus completing the Quake sub.... I've run a Powersoft K10 into a bloke of 4 very hard with on problems....
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The ''Quake'' bin is meant to be a bloke of 4 cabinets .. not 1 not 2 or 3 but 4 thus completing the Quake sub.... I've run a Powersoft K10 into a bloke of 4 very hard with on problems....
"Bloke" as in a male friend? Or do you mean "block"?
I was at the 2007 NYC sub shootout. The Quakes (a pair, that's what was provided) fared well and sounded good until we killed them. IIRC whoever brought them said "it's okay, we have cone kits." After that, as Ivan points out, the "rules" changed and we ran the remaining test units as hard and low as the provider felt comfortable with.
This really was a clash of the Titans. All of the subs that made it to the listening phase (and many that didn't) were world-class products that exhibited characteristics that the shootout participants found desirable, either from an acoustic, monetary or packaging standpoint.
It was a fun time. Paul Bell was a great host and it was good to meet a number of forum participants, particularly Mac, Ivan, David Lee of BassMaxx, Jeff Permanian from JTR and 2/3 of APB Dynasonics (with Olga, too!).
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
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lol sorry BLOCK ...
Your missing my point i think... the ''Quake sub'' comes in 4 parts, you need 4 cabinets to make a Quake sub so you were 2 cabinets short.
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lol sorry BLOCK ...
Your missing my point i think... the ''Quake sub'' comes in 4 parts, you need 4 cabinets to make a Quake sub so you were 2 cabinets short.
According to the EM Acoustics website they perform well when used singly. There is no mention in the product literature of them needing to be used in blocks of 4.
Mac
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lol sorry BLOCK ...
Your missing my point i think... the ''Quake sub'' comes in 4 parts, you need 4 cabinets to make a Quake sub so you were 2 cabinets short.
The USA distributor provided the Quakes. I defer to their expertise regarding their products.
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Being only 20mins down the road from EM myself and having spoke with Ed & Mike a few times & with owners of the EM quakes i can safely say that the Quake sub is made of 4 cabinets and that is the product / concept they try and sell.
The Quake sub become a beast when used in the right way... maybe try testing them again one day.
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Being only 20mins down the road from EM myself and having spoke with Ed & Mike a few times & with owners of the EM quakes i can safely say that the Quake sub is made of 4 cabinets and that is the product / concept they try and sell.
The Quake sub become a beast when used in the right way... maybe try testing them again one day.
As is typical of horn subs-when you increase the mouth area-you get better loading-so the extension goes down lower and sensitivity goes up and the response smooths out.
Do you have any measurements of 1-2-4 subs that show how effective the loading is? That is always better than "well 4 is trhe way to go" heresay.
And even with front loaded subs-4 would be more impressive than 2.
At this particular event the limit was 2 subs per model number-and that pretty much filled up the place.
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Being only 20mins down the road from EM myself and having spoke with Ed & Mike a few times & with owners of the EM quakes i can safely say that the Quake sub is made of 4 cabinets and that is the product / concept they try and sell.
The Quake sub become a beast when used in the right way... maybe try testing them again one day.
So you feel it necessary to engage in "lap measurement".
Pffft.
I have no interest in purchasing the EM products nor auditioning them again as we picked a full system solution to fill out our inventory.
Perhaps the mothership at EM should discuss the way their products are represented with the USA importer/distributor.
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Being only 20mins down the road from EM myself and having spoke with Ed & Mike a few times & with owners of the EM quakes i can safely say that the Quake sub is made of 4 cabinets and that is the product / concept they try and sell.
The Quake sub become a beast when used in the right way... maybe try testing them again one day.
Nest time you speak to them maybe you should suggest they change their product description literature to say they are designed to be used in blocks of 4 instead of saying they can be used singly.
Any horn sub will benefit by being used in multiples for the reasons Ivan stated. The only one I know of that states in the product literature that it is meant to be used in blocks of 4 is the EAW KF940.
Mac
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On the second day (the listening day) the "rules" changed when the Quake had its turn for listening.
Up until then the overall volume was kinda limited-I don't remember where or how-it has been awhile. But the Quake guys said " Let er rip" and give it all you got-we don't care if it tears up. And that is exactly what was done. The limit was found.
But to the casual observer who was not there-all they read was "the Quake blew up". But it was also producing more output-because the input was also higher than the subs that went before-DUH! That is what happens when yo keep going.
Not exactly the same story.
That is why it is so very important to get the WHOLE story-before decissions are made-especially opinions on the internet based on hearesay. And why attending such events is a good thing.
Thanks for putting the record straight Ivan. I was quite surprised at the Quakes failing that "early on" but that explains it. Every time I have heard them, they put a smile on my face.
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Thanks for putting the record straight Ivan. I was quite surprised at the Quakes failing that "early on" but that explains it. Every time I have heard them, they put a smile on my face.
The Quakes weren't the only ones that let out some magic smoke at that event.
On the second day, the Danley TH115's were the first up. Everything was listened to as a pair. So they were cranked up and it didn't seem as loud as it should, and then we started smelling some smoke.
After things were checked out it was found that the second cabinet was not even plugged into the amp. The cable was into the amp and into the speaker patch bay-but the patch bay was no hooked up to the amp.
So not only was the second cabinet not adding anything to the first, it was actually cancelling some of the sound and lowering the level of a single cabinet.
When that problem was fixed-the testing proceeded.
Even with a room full of audio professionals, mistakes still happen.