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Church and H.O.W. Forums for HOW Sound and AV - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Church and HOW Forums => Church Sound Archive => Topic started by: David Haile on February 24, 2005, 11:15:55 AM

Title: 16 Channel Record & Playback - Why not?
Post by: David Haile on February 24, 2005, 11:15:55 AM
We're building a new sanctuary, the sound system is designed and will be installed by pro's, now I'm working through how we're going to use it.  Since we'll be recording service to a PC, and since the Yamaha 02R96 mixer has ADAT I/O, I started thinking about a DAW interface to the PC so we can control the recording process from the board.  I can get a Steinberg VS2020 (model # might not be right) ADAT card for $299.  I then realized that I could record 16 channels off the board during a real service that I could later play back through the board for training purposes.  I believe I can route the 16 ADAT inputs to any mixer channel.  This makes it look and feel exactly like our regular setup.  The missing piece is stage volume, but since we're using mostly IEM's that isn't much.

The problem with normal training is that it is "live" with mistakes heard by everyone.  This makes students scared to try things.  If they did it on their own time they could just see what happens, rewind, and try something else.  I think the result would be more confident mixers!

Please tell me your thoughts!  If I'm the first to think of it I'm going to apply for a patent and be famous!

David Haile
Fort Collins, CO
Title: Re: 16 Channel Record & Playback - Why not?
Post by: Tom Young on February 24, 2005, 12:18:24 PM
This is very close to an idea I had decades ago but did not copyright..... darn !

I envisioned 16-24 tracks recording and playback in a manner that fed signals to ldspkrs on stage (which had similar dispersion to the real, acoustic sources) plus stage monitors and also fed into the FOH console.  Same purpose: to allow folks to practice live sound mixing and in a very real fashion.

Among other things, the missing audience will effect acoustics and so I am not sure how real this can be.  As you point out though, with IEM's we certainly can get closer to "real" as far as stage sound.

Another factor is this does not account for open microphones and dealing with them in real time.

Still, it may be worthwhile.

Let us know.
Title: Re: 16 Channel Record & Playback - Why not?
Post by: mupi on February 24, 2005, 01:01:47 PM
Another option with Yamaha's digital mixers is to use an aux output feeding a control room, put a computer in the control room, load up yamaha's control software, and voila, an instant test mixer on your computer.  It isn't quite as nice as the real thing, but for training/confidence building, it can work. It would also save the expense of the ADAT card and a recorder.

You could also go the other direction, have a very experienced operator on the computer sitting next to the console, and the trainee can run the console....any mistakes could be quickly overridden by the other operator, minimizing the trauma on the congregation.  This way, you can hopefully get the best of both worlds.

I believe, in answer to Tom's concern, that it is possible to route the pre-mute signal to the recorder, which would allow your scenario to have [some of] the effects of not muting a mic. (it won't decrease gain before feedback, but IMHO that is the least of the associated problems; you really won't have feedback on the recording anyway (hopefully!  Shocked) )

Title: Re: 16 Channel Record & Playback - Why not?
Post by: David Haile on February 24, 2005, 01:18:45 PM
We will have a PC connected to the console via USB that could be used for supervisor control if we felt we needed it.  That is a good idea.  We can also go wireless USB so this supervisor (me) can sit in the pews next to my sweetie and herd of children with a laptop and open the mic channel when the pastor starts talking and the operator is reading a comic book or playing Nintendo.  The Ultimate Solution is to use a tablet PC, or one of those laptops where the screen folds back essentially making it a tablet PC.

Yeehaw!  I'm as excited as a puppy at preschool!  I expect it will take 6 months after installation before I know about and can take advantage of the possibilities.

David Haile
Fort Collins, CO