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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: Biya Walid on July 12, 2016, 11:25:18 AM
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Hello,
I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.
The reason i write this i run a festival here in morocco and i'm planning to buy a sound system so we can be more efficace in our events and also stay away from Equipment Rental as far as possible.
i found one here in morocco Alto Professional; 8 * Sxa28p + 4 *sxa18p.
i'm not a sound professional to make the choice, and i looked over the internet and couldn't find any Review or User experience about this Line array System. if it is possible i would like you to share with me any knowledge about this system, Good points bad points and futuristic issues, the price here is 7k$ for a used one.
The event of our festival is an out door with people from 1000 to 4 k visitor per event .
Thanks
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Hello,
I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.
Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.
Mac
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Hello,
I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.
The reason i write this i run a festival here in morocco and i'm planning to buy a sound system so we can be more efficace in our events and also stay away from Equipment Rental as far as possible.
i found one here in morocco Alto Professional; 8 * Sxa28p + 4 *sxa18p.
i'm not a sound professional to make the choice, and i looked over the internet and couldn't find any Review or User experience about this Line array System. if it is possible i would like you to share with me any knowledge about this system, Good points bad points and futuristic issues, the price here is 7k$ for a used one.
The event of our festival is an out door with people from 1000 to 4 k visitor per event .
Thanks
Biya...
It is much more accurate to calculate the type and size of a sound system by knowing the size and shape of the area to be covered and the sound level (SPL) desired at the farthest point. The number of people is not an accurate measure of your needs.
That said, I would not expect an entry level system such as this to be enough for outdoor performance. The limitation of 4/side won't really act as an "array". You need a much longer hang/side to get real line array performance.
Good luck.
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While I love my little Alto coax monitors for what they are, this is more of a "line array shaped object". At first the "rigging" looked a little dodgy to me until I realized that this is more of what is called a "constant curvature array" where the cabinets are stuck together at fixed angles. This is why there is a limit of 4 boxes per hang.
While you might be able to cover a small street festival with levels that would allow for people to talk 150-200 feet back with such a system, you're not going to excite 4000 people with it.
If this is an annual or even summer month festival, buying a sufficient system is not going to be cost effective compared to hiring one.
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Hello,
Thanks for your respond, but is there any using experience, or you know anyone who has worked with Alto Line Array, i'd like to have the whole idea about this system, "Beside the description from Alto's website", even on the net couldn't find any user experience which express the good and bad side of these System.
Thanks Again for your answers.
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I have other products from Alto which are good for their admittedly limited area of use, but the "line array" is not a real line array but rather a constant curvature array unsuited to your stated needs. You will find that the sound quality is not bad/not good, but the weakness is that they are not capable of outdoor use for an area larger than about 4-500 square meters.
If you try to push them hard they sound quite harsh and due to the 4/side limitation there is every chance they will sustain damage when you try to get "enough" sound out of them. This leads to the issue of manufacturer support and parts availability which, unfortunately, is poor to non-existent. They are sold "as is", so to speak and if anything breaks you must try and find replacements to buy...which can be very difficult.
Can you not listen to the system before purchase? I would NEVER buy even a new system without direct personal experience and used gear should not only get a good listening-to but should also be evaluated by a qualified electronic audio tech prior to purchase. You'll have to know a good repair tech because EVERYTHING breaks down once in a while and a system such as this will almost surely be pushed to its limit on a regular basis and probably past its capability if the operator is inexperienced or careless.
It is often said that the wrong gear at the right price is still wrong. If you can't do the listening/tech evaluation or you expect to cove more than a small area then I'd look for something else. And remember:
For any outdoor system you will need to use some kind of lifts to get the speakers up in the air and angled a bit down to properly cover the listening area. The equipment to do this can easily cost almost as much as the "bargain" price of the Alto system.
Good luck...test thoroughly.
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Hello,
Thanks for your respond, but is there any using experience, or you know anyone who has worked with Alto Line Array, i'd like to have the whole idea about this system, "Beside the description from Alto's website", even on the net couldn't find any user experience which express the good and bad side of these System.
Thanks Again for your answers.
The lack of reviews or end-user comments, world-wide, should tell you everything you need to know - this system isn't ready for prime time when compared to similar products. Also as Dick points out the constant curvature arrays are not really suited to your use, either. The wrong product at the "right" price is still the wrong product.
If you're only using the system a couple times a year you will find purchasing, depreciating, storing, insuring, moving and setting up the system to be a distraction from the purpose of your organization. You are falling into the trap of "false economy". Your organization would likely be better off hiring in a firm to handle your audio needs; you'll be able to pick from vendors that offer different solutions, equipment and techniques but if you buy a system you're stuck with whatever its relative capabilities are.
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Thank you all for the explanation,Thanks also to prosoundweb for this Plate-form of change & share that gathers sound experts from different horizons.
it was enough for me to understand and have an idea about this system, i'll run some tests before purchasing the product, the complaints is the sound market here in morocco is very hard to find and very expensive when you do, expect if you have the experience and time to contact different vendurs and collect the right gears to build a strong sound system i guess, any how if purchasing this Alto i guess it'll be pereferable to add more support "Satellites & Sub" to the system, also the choice of the amps compressors and equalisors will decide the sound quality and power also.
Cheers.
I have other products from Alto which are good for their admittedly limited area of use, but the "line array" is not a real line array but rather a constant curvature array unsuited to your stated needs. You will find that the sound quality is not bad/not good, but the weakness is that they are not capable of outdoor use for an area larger than about 4-500 square meters.
If you try to push them hard they sound quite harsh and due to the 4/side limitation there is every chance they will sustain damage when you try to get "enough" sound out of them. This leads to the issue of manufacturer support and parts availability which, unfortunately, is poor to non-existent. They are sold "as is", so to speak and if anything breaks you must try and find replacements to buy...which can be very difficult.
Can you not listen to the system before purchase? I would NEVER buy even a new system without direct personal experience and used gear should not only get a good listening-to but should also be evaluated by a qualified electronic audio tech prior to purchase. You'll have to know a good repair tech because EVERYTHING breaks down once in a while and a system such as this will almost surely be pushed to its limit on a regular basis and probably past its capability if the operator is inexperienced or careless.
It is often said that the wrong gear at the right price is still wrong. If you can't do the listening/tech evaluation or you expect to cove more than a small area then I'd look for something else. And remember:
For any outdoor system you will need to use some kind of lifts to get the speakers up in the air and angled a bit down to properly cover the listening area. The equipment to do this can easily cost almost as much as the "bargain" price of the Alto system.
Good luck...test thoroughly.
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"Adding to" is not easily done without sacrificing sound quality which is part of the drawback of the Alto system.
The limit of 4/side means that no increase in output can be realized in a sound-coherent fashion.
I do not know the market in Morocco but I would strongly suggest you try to establish a strong relationship with an established sound provider rather than attempt to self-educate about sound engineering.
Good luck.
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The reason proper sound contractors are "expensive" is that equipment capable of reliably handling 20,000 square feet or more of audience is not cheap. The skill and overhead to deploy and run such a system is not cheap. While equipment that "looks like" or has the same style name attached to it might be purchased for a lower cost than the real stuff, there's a reason for that.
A system such as you're contemplating might work for a band playing in a moderate sized hotel ballroom if they were fixated on looking like they had "line arrays". Although they would be better served for similar money by something like the Danley SM80.
You need to add to the purchase of the speakers all the rest of the system. Which can easily exceed the cost of the speakers. For an outside festival providing for good acts you need almost as much monitor system as you're contemplating for mains. Plus a modern digital mixing desk. Microphones and miles of cables. Power distribution systems, communication systems, and so on. This is what you get with a legitimate sound contractor. Along with spares to cover problems and the skills to make everything work throughout the show.
Owning a system might seem like fun. But owning a system that doesn't work well enough, having complaints from the audience and the artists, having artists uninterested in future shows because they don't like the presentation of their music and see you cutting corners, is not fun. And can lead to the demise of your festival. It's a false economy. Building an audience takes giving the ones that do come a great show. Great acts, that they can hear clearly. When you keep this bar up, the festival thrives. When you lower the bar, it might not happen immediately but things will start to fizzle out and it will be hard to regain a following.
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It sounds like you have fallen into the marketing trap of falling in love with a product and are now compromising your defined goals. Unless your needs have changed, walk away from the product and find something that does fit the plan. In an automobile analogy, you need a large rugged bus to carry 50 people across a desert but someone showed you a rally car and you think you can drive a couple people at a time and make more trips. It's not going to work! But the system you need! If that doesn't make financial sense, rent one!
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It sounds like you have fallen into the marketing trap of falling in love with a product and are now compromising your defined goals. Unless your needs have changed, walk away from the product and find something that does fit the plan. In an automobile analogy, you need a large rugged bus to carry 50 people across a desert but someone showed you a rally car and you think you can drive a couple people at a time and make more trips. It's not going to work! But the system you need! If that doesn't make financial sense, rent one!
Thanks to everyone for the good advice's, which was helpful, in the end we didn't buy that system, we went for rental on our last Edition.
Thanks Again.