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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on June 06, 2018, 08:35:14 AM
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This was mentioned in the big SQ thread, but here's a bit more information:
https://www.allen-heath.com/key-series/sq/
Same capabilities, but larger surface - the SQ-7 has 33 faders, while the SQ-6 has 25 and the SQ-5 has 17. The SQ-7 also adds 4 more rotary controls with scribble strips. No changes to total IO capability, but there are more inputs on the SQ-7 surface.
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This was mentioned in the big SQ thread, but here's a bit more information:
https://www.allen-heath.com/key-series/sq/
Same capabilities, but larger surface - the SQ-7 has 33 faders, while the SQ-6 has 25 and the SQ-5 has 17. The SQ-7 also adds 4 more rotary controls with scribble strips. No changes to total IO capability, but there are more inputs on the SQ-7 surface.
Thanks for posting this. I don't always check the SQ thread, so this is a big help. I'm going to demo an SQ-6 on Monday. The Allen Heath SQ series are currently at the top of my short list. This new version with more faders may be the ticket. I've been trying to find a release date. No luck so far.
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Additionally it has more input on the surface (32 input xlr, plus 3 stereo in)
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Additionally it has more input on the surface (32 input xlr, plus 3 stereo in)
I only see two stereo in's. I'm not sure about three?
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I only see two stereo in's. I'm not sure about three?
The third one is a TRS 3.5mm "mini jack" in the upper right hand corner of the surface, above the USB port.
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Can you route the cue bus to outputs? Useless as a monitor console until that feature is implemented. Once that's done, we'll take 2, please.
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I'm holding off until it has mono matrix outs available for fills etc.
I'm really struggling - really need to think about upgrading my Roland M480. In particular the lack of scribble strips is starting to get in the way (in many other ways it's still a fantastic console). The problem is that I can't afford DLive and SQ just isn't quite the step up i'd hoped for. It has the scribble strips but lacks proper metering, bus flexibility (The Roland has 16 mono buses that can be ganged as stereo as required, the SQ has 12 fixed stereo mixes plus left and right - so more on paper but not as useful if they can't become mono - that tends to be all I want). The roland has 8 mono matrix outs that can be grouped as stereo, the SQ has 3 fixed stereo. SQ has 8 DCA's, the Roland has 24. The list goes on but you get my point. Aside from the scribble strips and obviously the audio quality (never been a complaint with the Roland though) I don't really gain much and in some places, lose.
If the SQ7 as the "big brother" had 64 channels and a few more buses, DCA's etc. then i'd be jumping at it, but the extra faders alone aren't quite enough.
I suspect i'll end up with an SQ7 anyway, but in some cases it'll be a real step backwards from the Roland. If only the M5000 had taken off a little more - now there was a cracking desk and they're going for a song currently. I just don't know how long i'd have support etc. for.
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I'm holding off until it has mono matrix outs available for fills etc.
I'm really struggling - really need to think about upgrading my Roland M480. In particular the lack of scribble strips is starting to get in the way (in many other ways it's still a fantastic console). The problem is that I can't afford DLive and SQ just isn't quite the step up i'd hoped for. It has the scribble strips but lacks proper metering, bus flexibility (The Roland has 16 mono buses that can be ganged as stereo as required, the SQ has 12 fixed stereo mixes plus left and right - so more on paper but not as useful if they can't become mono - that tends to be all I want). The roland has 8 mono matrix outs that can be grouped as stereo, the SQ has 3 fixed stereo. SQ has 8 DCA's, the Roland has 24. The list goes on but you get my point. Aside from the scribble strips and obviously the audio quality (never been a complaint with the Roland though) I don't really gain much and in some places, lose.
If the SQ7 as the "big brother" had 64 channels and a few more buses, DCA's etc. then i'd be jumping at it, but the extra faders alone aren't quite enough.
I suspect i'll end up with an SQ7 anyway, but in some cases it'll be a real step backwards from the Roland. If only the M5000 had taken off a little more - now there was a cracking desk and they're going for a song currently. I just don't know how long i'd have support etc. for.
Thank you for so clearly articulating this. My general feelings with this desk is that they're straddling two different markets, and there are some serious inconsistencies, lack of channel meters being one. Colorable scribbles are a must-have for me, but the stereo bus issue is disappointing. One thing they finally got right is the patchable "omni" outs. Having pre-assigned hardware outputs is not helpful to me.
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I'm really struggling...
With the release of the SQ-7 it seems clear (at least to me) that this is really A&H's latest incarnation of their "entry-level" digital mixer. In many ways it's really what the Qu Series should have been. As you point out though, it's still a mix of features that straddle different markets. I can't see the Qu Series having much of a future at this point, but what will be more interesting is where the GLD Series ends up with all this. If dLive C Class would drop by another 20% it's quite possible that it'd overtake the majority of the GLD market. I don't see that happening though!
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With the release of the SQ-7 it seems clear (at least to me) that this is really A&H's latest incarnation of their "entry-level" digital mixer. In many ways it's really what the Qu Series should have been. As you point out though, it's still a mix of features that straddle different markets. I can't see the Qu Series having much of a future at this point, but what will be more interesting is where the GLD Series ends up with all this. If dLive C Class would drop by another 20% it's quite possible that it'd overtake the majority of the GLD market. I don't see that happening though!
That's an interesting analysis. I think even at its current price point, the C Class is very very competitive in terms of capability and capacity. But of course I wish they lowered the price, because I want to buy one :)
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That's an interesting analysis. I think even at its current price point, the C Class is very very competitive in terms of capability and capacity. But of course I wish they lowered the price, because I want to buy one :)
Oh absolutely. In my opinion dLive C Class is one of the best bang-to-buck options out there if you use it to its full potential. Barring any major shake-ups in the market I'm planning to invest in a C Class rig later in the year myself, and it's hard to beat the features and flexibility for the price. At the same time, it's hard to put a C Class rig together for less than 10 or 12K assuming you want a surface. With SQ raising the bar a bit on the entry-level(ish) options I'm just curious to see where GLD will go. A&H claims it's not going anywhere, but time will tell if we see a slight revamp on it which would better position GLD between SQ and dLive.
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Oh absolutely. In my opinion dLive C Class is one of the best bang-to-buck options out there if you use it to its full potential. Barring any major shake-ups in the market I'm planning to invest in a C Class rig later in the year myself, and it's hard to beat the features and flexibility for the price. At the same time, it's hard to put a C Class rig together for less than 10 or 12K assuming you want a surface. With SQ raising the bar a bit on the entry-level(ish) options I'm just curious to see where GLD will go. A&H claims it's not going anywhere, but time will tell if we see a slight revamp on it which would better position GLD between SQ and dLive.
There's a lot of things I don't really like about GLD. I'd tolerate using it but I wouldn't spend my own money on one. The thing about the C class is you sort of want to get the c3500 because that's really a 2-screen workflow in my opinion.
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Just got an SQ6, and then when checking FX it doesn't have multiband compressor. Hopefully it will be available in future update (maybe as an dyn8?)
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Sweetwater already has it listed -
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SQ7--allen-and-heath-sq7-33-fader-32-preamp-digital-mixer
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There's a lot of things I don't really like about GLD. I'd tolerate using it but I wouldn't spend my own money on one. The thing about the C class is you sort of want to get the c3500 because that's really a 2-screen workflow in my opinion.
I found the 2nd screen on the C3500 to be a novelty, most of the mixing work happens on the left, the right screen is useful for configuration and then it is a glorified meter bridge.
If they built it like the SD12 where each screen had a full channel strip it would be much more useful, but that's pretty unrealistic to expect it to work like a console that cost twice the price.
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Sweetwater already has it listed -
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SQ7--allen-and-heath-sq7-33-fader-32-preamp-digital-mixer
I'm surprised they're listing it for that much since the "Street Price" is $4499.
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I'm surprised they're listing it for that much since the "Street Price" is $4499.
They've got GLD80's for the same price of $4999. I was thinking that the SQ7 would be something like $3999 since it's suggested retail is $4499.
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Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but there's an SQ-7 on my dining room table right now, so if anyone has any burning curiosities, I will attempt to answer them.
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there's an SQ-7 on my dining room table right now
If it's getting in your way, you can post it to me!
Steve.
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Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but there's an SQ-7 on my dining room table right now, so if anyone has any burning curiosities, I will attempt to answer them.
WHAT??? Pics or I don't believe it, lol. How did you score that situation?
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WHAT??? Pics or I don't believe it, lol. How did you score that situation?
Can't say, for the moment. All will become clear in time. :)
It's a very solidly built piece of kit, with some very convenient features and in general very well though out. The workflow takes a little bit of getting used to if you are not familiar with the A+H way of things, but it gets pretty speedy once you get it under your fingers.
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If it's getting in your way, you can post it to me!
Steve.
Duly noted, Steve. Hahaha. I did have to move it for dinner last night.
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Can't say, for the moment. All will become clear in time. :)
It's a very solidly built piece of kit, with some very convenient features and in general very well though out. The workflow takes a little bit of getting used to if you are not familiar with the A+H way of things, but it gets pretty speedy once you get it under your fingers.
I went locally and looked at an SQ-5 two weeks ago. Workflow was good. I'm waiting to find out when these will be available. I'm planning on putting two in at my church. I'm guessing you live in the UK.
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I went locally and looked at an SQ-5 two weeks ago. Workflow was good. I'm waiting to find out when these will be available. I'm planning on putting two in at my church. I'm guessing you live in the UK.
I live in the U.S. The console is not available for sale anywhere as far as I'm aware. I'm not sure what the anticipated ship date is but I will ask.
This particular console was on the floor at InfoComm, which is all I'll say for the moment.
If there are workflow or feature questions, however, I'd be happy to answer them.
EDIT: For clarity, I do not work for Allen & Heath, or their distributors.
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Awesome! Musicians Friend is showing availability 8/4. I won't be buying from them, but i hope that's a good indication of release. I was impressed with the 5. It felt like a very solid console. I was hoping that the touch screen would allow touch EQ adjustment. The SQ-5 I played with did not allow that. Maybe a firmware upgrade down the road will allow that.
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Can't say, for the moment. All will become clear in time. :)
It's a very solidly built piece of kit, with some very convenient features and in general very well though out. The workflow takes a little bit of getting used to if you are not familiar with the A+H way of things, but it gets pretty speedy once you get it under your fingers.
I have an SQ6 sitting next to me at the moment. I agree about the workflow taking a bit of getting used to. But I don't find it all that speedy even after playing with it before.
What firmware is on the one yo have is it the standard available or is it a beta version?
This SQ6 is going back to the dealer real soon.
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What firmware is on the one yo have is it the standard available or is it a beta version?
v1.2.2 r2408 which is the latest publicly available, I believe.
My workflow-to-beat is the Midas Pro2C. I love the way the desk really "comes to you." But I think this desk would do a decent job of staying out of my way, at least, once I learned it.
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v1.2.2 r2408 which is the latest publicly available, I believe.
My workflow-to-beat is the Midas Pro2C. I love the way the desk really "comes to you." But I think this desk would do a decent job of staying out of my way, at least, once I learned it.
And, the next update addresses the commonly understood issues.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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And, the next update addresses the commonly understood issues.
Hi Rob-
Yes, that's what I am hearing... it looks like most/all of the things I suggested to them had already been suggested, which is a good sign.
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Someone let me know when these things are actually a step up from a GLD, apart from a few minor niceties.
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Someone let me know when these things are actually a step up from a GLD, apart from a few minor niceties.
I think it will be quite long, probably v1.4 because they are not doing incremental update per major firmware release anymore like Qu series. There are some bugs need to be sorted out and some features like dynamic scribble strip (where scrible strip show dB values on fader/rotary movement) that still not included.
On SQ-7, I wish they put all 8 FX mix button on the side, than having only 4.
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On SQ-7, I wish they put all 8 FX mix button on the side, than having only 4.
Andrien-
There are 8 FX rack slots, but only 4 FX send buses. Slots 5-8 can either be patched as inserts, or fed with an aux bus. So all the buses on the desk do have a button along the right side. :)
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v1.2.2 r2408 which is the latest publicly available, I believe.
My workflow-to-beat is the Midas Pro2C. I love the way the desk really "comes to you." But I think this desk would do a decent job of staying out of my way, at least, once I learned it.
My take on the Pro 1/2/3/6 is that they need to be beaten with a large, heavy object and tossed in the bin.
Unless you're willing to enter into a long term relationship (with or without the benefit of clergy) with a Pro series mixer and unless all you need to do is a simple L/R mix, you're spending HOURS trying to find the access to the setup parameter(s) you need (and discover it's UNLABELED in the software).
I love putting "NO MIDAS. NO MACKIE. NO PRESONUS" on my riders... Yeah, there are folks that love their Midas Pro mixer and I'm not trying to pry their cold, dead fingers off the faders... but the user interface can only be described as arcane and oblique - much like the Kidderminster mind set. I love it when a factory support person intimates that "maybe you should have purchased as lesser brand" rather than helping you with your problem. BTW, that's where I got my RTFM response - because I had a support person from Kidderminster say exactly that... yeah 600+ pages that makes a Yamaha manual look like a paragon of simplicity and clarity.
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My take on the Pro 1/2/3/6 is that they need to be beaten with a large, heavy object and tossed in the bin.
Unless you're willing to enter into a long term relationship (with or without the benefit of clergy) with a Pro series mixer and unless all you need to do is a simple L/R mix, you're spending HOURS trying to find the access to the setup parameter(s) you need (and discover it's UNLABELED in the software).
I love putting "NO MIDAS. NO MACKIE. NO PRESONUS" on my riders... Yeah, there are folks that love their Midas Pro mixer and I'm not trying to pry their cold, dead fingers off the faders... but the user interface can only be described as arcane and oblique - much like the Kidderminster mind set.
To each their own, my good sir. You are certainly not the first person who has expressed similar sentiments to me. The physical layout of the Pro series desks makes a lot of sense to me, which is all I can say! I do share your sentiments about Presonus whole-heartedly. I feel like I'm mixing through a keyhole using a paper clip.
Many are also surprised when I say "Please No Avid" as well.
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To each their own, my good sir. You are certainly not the first person who has expressed similar sentiments to me. The physical layout of the Pro series desks makes a lot of sense to me, which is all I can say! I do share your sentiments about Presonus whole-heartedly. I feel like I'm mixing through a keyhole using a paper clip.
Many are also surprised when I say "Please No Avid" as well.
You'll get an M7, then!
I'd much rather mix on a neutral console like the Avid VENUE series and have it add nothing to my audio. Kind of like Meyer loudspeakers - YOU make the sound that comes out.
There are 2 kinds of FOH guys - those that like/love AVID and those that absolutely detest them. My observations have been that many of the AVID haters don't seem to produce better mixes on their console of choice so I think it's more mental and PICNIC (problem in chair, not in console).
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You'll get an M7, then!
I'd much rather mix on a neutral console like the Avid VENUE series and have it add nothing to my audio. Kind of like Meyer loudspeakers - YOU make the sound that comes out.
There are 2 kinds of FOH guys - those that like/love AVID and those that absolutely detest them. My observations have been that many of the AVID haters don't seem to produce better mixes on their console of choice so I think it's more mental and PICNIC (problem in chair, not in console).
Or as they say in tech support PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair).
For me personally, console choice has almost nothing to do with the "sound." I realize that ruffles some feathers but I believe console "sound" differences are far smaller than most would assume. All of the professional consoles on the market are very flat in mag and phase, have very low noise floors and low IM / THD.
Exception of course is boutique stuff (character preamps, "Silk", etc). But someone who knows what they're doing should be able to get a good-sounding mix going.
For me personally it's a lot more about the workflow. How I access the controls, banking, recalling, how the desk lets me work. I like the way POP groups and VCA groups work on the Pro series. It's faster than anything else I've used, and the color associations prevent me having to remember which bank things are on. In terms of setting up the software / patching screens, that's a different argument entirely!
The Avid channel strip controls have never felt particularly streamlined to me, especially SC48. I tend to like dedicated knobs per function, not remappable controls.
Agreed 100% about the neutral response. I'm a system tech at heart, so I don't want any part of the transmission chain to editorialize my signal. Just get it where it needs to go, amplify it, and get it out there. Anything else is an artistic decision best left up to the operator!
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Or as they say in tech support PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair).
For me personally, console choice has almost nothing to do with the "sound." I realize that ruffles some feathers but I believe console "sound" differences are far smaller than most would assume. All of the professional consoles are the market are very flat in mag and phase, have very low noise floors and low IM / THD.
Exception of course is boutique stuff (character preamps, "Silk", etc). But someone who knows what they're doing should be able to get a good-sounding mix going.
For me personally it's a lot more about the workflow. How I access the controls, banking, recalling, how the desk lets me work. I like the way POP groups and VCA groups work on the Pro series. It's faster than anything else I've used, and the color associations prevent me having to remember which bank things are on. In terms of setting up the software / patching screens, that's a different argument entirely!
The Avid channel strip controls have never felt particularly streamlined to me, especially SC48. I tend to like dedicated knobs per function, not remappable controls.
Agreed 100% about the neutral response. I'm a system tech at heart, so I don't want any part of the transmission chain to editorialize my signal. Just get it where it needs to go, amplify it, and get it out there. Anything else is an artistic decision best left up to the operator!
+1.
Totally agree.
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My take on the Pro 1/2/3/6 is that they need to be beaten with a large, heavy object and tossed in the bin.
Unless you're willing to enter into a long term relationship (with or without the benefit of clergy) with a Pro series mixer and unless all you need to do is a simple L/R mix, you're spending HOURS trying to find the access to the setup parameter(s) you need (and discover it's UNLABELED in the software).
^^this. I've got no problem with how the Pro Series sounds, but that's where it ends for me. Even guys who mix on them daily at their house gigs seem baffled when trying to patch anything as I've requested and god forbid you give a scene on a stick....it's an hour before noise comes out.
On a throw and go forget it.
"No Pro Series" is on my rider.
JF
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True story...
At a sound guy (& girls) get together out in Westminster MA some years back, we were blessed by some nice consoles to play with. One was a Pro6 (or 4) I think. All the kings horses and all the kings men (bunch of folk with chops) could not get PFL (or anything at all) to route to the headphones all weekend. Sigh...scared me away from anything digital Midas.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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True story...
At a sound guy (& girls) get together out in Westminster MA some years back, we were blessed by some nice consoles to play with. One was a Pro6 (or 4) I think. All the kings horses and all the kings men (bunch of folk with chops) could not get PFL (or anything at all) to route to the headphones all weekend. Sigh...scared me away from anything digital Midas.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
It's one of those unlabeled features... a pair of radio buttons that is the final 'patch' to make the headphones work. It's not easily found in the manual (I never found it, my LD found a Youtube video that covered basic console config).
That was another bah, humbug moment.
Or as they say in tech support PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair).
For me personally it's a lot more about the workflow. How I access the controls, banking, recalling, how the desk lets me work. I like the way POP groups and VCA groups work on the Pro series. It's faster than anything else I've used, and the color associations prevent me having to remember which bank things are on. In terms of setting up the software / patching screens, that's a different argument entirely!
The operator's workflow dictates the choice of console, or vice versa. Whether more of a fixed architecture or highly customizable UI, ultimately it's about having access to specific physical controls when you need it and fully understanding and navigating the "signal" routing within the mix environment. Those are important reasons for selecting a particular console.
I've not used an S6L so no direct comparison for me, but I've heard of folks having my "Pro-series reaction" to it; choice of desk and perceived complexity is a horses for courses thing. And it's nice to have choices :)
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U.S. ship date = 7/10/18
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Sweetwater is showing SQ7's in stock and available for immediate delivery.