Mark Jastrzebski wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 23:07 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN40LMi0_xA&feature=sub |
Mike Gazdziak wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 00:01 |
This is very similar to the "Leave it on the truck" thread from a little bit ago. The tour accountant probably wouldn't be too happy if the gear they acquired for the tour wasn't being used in favor of the house equipment. |
Mike Gazdziak wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 07:01 |
This is very similar to the "Leave it on the truck" thread from a little bit ago. The tour accountant probably wouldn't be too happy if the gear they acquired for the tour wasn't being used in favor of the house equipment. I wonder how long they waited, how many venues with unimpressive house rigs, before they shot the video with the StudioLive next to a Midas, for maximum effect. |
Justice C. Bigler wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 01:00 |
I'm a StudioLive hater, but I'd rather have it than a Venice 320... |
Mark Jastrzebski wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 23:07 |
Is it me or is this hard to believe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN40LMi0_xA&feature=sub |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 10:02 | ||
Me too, but that was no Venice 320. There was also some pretty cash outboard. That video was like watching someone get excited about a Prius. |
Callan Carnahan wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 17:36 | ||||
Great comparison Question: Why would you take Presonus' built-in comps over a rack of Klark comps and gates? Answer: Endorsement contract requirements. That SE probably hated the fact that he had to endorse a board that costs a little more than twice of what one of those DN500's costs Kind of a cheesy ad, though, all things aside. But damn does Paul Gilbert love his big ol' cans! |
Don McMeckan wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 23:59 |
I met Ace a couple of times very briefly when he was working for Tower of Power. The tour they did with Tom Jones about 4 or 5 years ago, Tom Jones' FOH guy had a PM5D, Ace wanted a PM 4000. My how times have changed! |
Mike Christy wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 13:44 |
It pretty clear to me that they are ( going to try) using the SL for recording only, and they say nothing of actually engaging any of the onboard comps. No one in their right mind would do that (hard squishing) for tracking, but then the way MP3s sound nowadays, why not? |
Don McMeckan wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 14:35 |
Ace's mix , unfortunately, was mostly distortion. Probably a function of the PM 4000 going through a couple channels on the PM5D |
Jason Phair wrote on Sat, 01 January 2011 21:22 | ||
Right, because Digital = Distortion, right? |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 10:02 | ||
That video was like watching someone get excited about a Prius. |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Fri, 31 December 2010 10:02[/quote |
That video was like watching someone get excited about a Prius. |
Jason Phair wrote on Sat, 01 January 2011 15:22 | ||
Right, because Digital = Distortion, right? |
Jason J Raboin wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 08:53 |
I have had my SC48 sit next to an H3000, XL4, etc.. Consistency is king. The extra time that the band would have to be on stage dialing in the other console isn't worth it to me or them. I've even had my SC48 sit next to another SC48. Unless your SC48 has Massey plug ins, and a mac mini hooked up for multi-tracking with a KVM switch, we're using mine. There is also the production reimbursement to think about. Most artists who carry production get a separate, non commissioned payment from the promoter because they do not need to rent gear, hire extra techs, etc. Deciding to use the house gear at the last minute isn't as easy a decision as some people on this board make it out to be. |
Evan F. Hunter wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 02:48 |
He was probably talking about clipping the individual channels, which on digital or analogue equals distortion. Especially if they had XLR in through the mic pres. And Digital sounds worst when it clips IMO. |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 18:02 | ||
Evan, Your new light is on. |
Kristian Johnsen wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 18:58 | ||||
Yeah, but... Bennett, not jumping on you personally here as I saw this thread weer coming when the PM5D comment was first posted: This is a typical LAB moment, though; one of the "juniors" words something slightly wrong and all the "seniors" get to mock and taunt the wording rather than stay focused on the actual message. I'd say anyone who's been around the block has seen the situation where one mixer is being fed into another and there are either noise or distortion issues due to the fact that at the time when the gain was set on the second mixer, the signal present on the output of the first mixer wasn't indicative of what it turned out to be during the show. This is the reason for half the DJ-related problems sound people keep complaining about, too. Yes, it CAN work perfectly fine to cascade one mixer into another input, but there might be gain issues either before the input stage of the second mixer or within it. Sometimes this can be corrected smoothly mid-show. Sometimes not. I fail to see how it's such a stretch of the imagination that this is what whoever posted about the PM5D meant. Happy new year everyone! Kristian |
Don McMeckan wrote on Mon, 03 January 2011 12:45 |
I talked to Tom Jones' FOH tech briefly after the show while they were tearing down, he said the room sounded much different empty than full. |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 15:17 |
Thirdly, Bennett Prescott....you sell speakers and system tech.....I'm guessing that means that you don't actually "mix" bands....let me ask you this: What if I was working with a band that was playing that big Rock Otočec concert that is on the ADRaudio website?....And what if, when I advanced the show, I told them that I NEEDED to use V-DOSC only.....since they are the best...??? Wouldn't you get on the phone and tell me that I should give your speakers a try at least?......So why would you perpetuate this mindset that Midas is the only choice? |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 14:37 |
Can I ask why the StudioLive is not for you? |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 15:37 |
Can I ask why the StudioLive is not for you? |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 13:17 |
Michael, I should have been clearer. I have used the StudioLive 16. Can I adjust an aux on one channel while adjusting the EQ on another? How about adjusting the EQ on two channels simultaneously? Can I sweep up variable high passes at the same time? The extra second or two it takes to select the channel I want to affect can be significant. When I have four front line SM58s that need to be ready now, how quickly can I get in my EQ, dynamics, gain, and high pass settings? Furthermore, how can I see what those settings are for each channel at the same time? |
John Cameron wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 16:20 |
Every tool has its use, I am a studiolive 24.4.2 lover but keep in mind I just upgraded from the original Yamaha 01V. I’ve been doing more and more live recordings and found myself bringing a split snake and a rack of MOTU 8-pre’s. I was able to sell that rack when I got the studiolive. For what I do it is the best tool I could find for the price. I will never say it’ll do a better job than a Midas or Digico but for the price it probably can’t be beat. I agree that some of the controls are a bit hard to navigate on the console but once you get VSL up and running things are so much more at your fingertips. As for the sound I think it sounds great, you can be the judge on my first live recording. http://soundcloud.com/studiolive_24-4-2/studiolive-main-l-r John |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 15:17 |
Michael, I should have been clearer. I have used the StudioLive 16. Can I adjust an aux on one channel while adjusting the EQ on another? How about adjusting the EQ on two channels simultaneously? Can I sweep up variable high passes at the same time? The extra second or two it takes to select the channel I want to affect can be significant. When I have four front line SM58s that need to be ready now, how quickly can I get in my EQ, dynamics, gain, and high pass settings? Furthermore, how can I see what those settings are for each channel at the same time? |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 16:08 |
Anyway, you'll be happy to know that PreSonus has been kind enough to store "Presets" in the board to help get you up and going....kick, snare, toms, and....you got it....VOCAL! |
Kristian Johnsen wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 17:39 |
I hope you are at liberty to answer as per your own opinion. |
Stavross (Sam Buck) wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 16:17 | ||
Presets are great, but for me personally a digital board without recallable preamps is a no go. |
Matthew Haber wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 00:52 | ||
What kind of endorsement arrangement would allow for that? Not one that most manufacturers are going to like, IMHO. |
Dick Rees wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 01:00 | ||||
Presets are fine. I ignore all the Presonus ones and made my own, but even then they are just a "shotgun" approach and need tweaking to taste in each situation. For those who have little or no experience the stock ones may avail. For wider and varied applications I prefer to dial things in as needed. The thing that makes me less than comfortable at this stage of the "discussion" is that opinions are being posted by a user who, if not a paid employee of the company, at least derives certain sponsorial benefits and has a somewhat vested interest in spouting the company line. I thought such posting was not exactly kosher....... |
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 20:01 |
I would love to use the SLive for the little theater gigs that I do, but the muting of the sound for the (slow) scene changes is a deal-breaker for this use. |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 19:52 |
...and NOT ONCE did a paying customer come to the console and say that the mix didn't sound like a Midas. |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 18:52 |
I knew that the clubs that we would be playing in would have small sound booths and that House Engineers were not going to dig me coming in and telling them to move their desk. I also knew that being a small rock club (with a lot of sold out shows), Promoters were not going to let me take up any extra customer seating. Plus....it wasn't my 1st European tour....I knew that there would be stairs.....lots and lots of stairs to carry the gear up and down. I needed something small, something reliable, easy and with multi-tracking capabilities.....when I looked at my options, the StudioLive seemed perfect. |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 20:59 | ||
If I had to pick one reason, it would be the same complaint I have with all the low-market digital, not enough physical controls or space. That is certainly much less of an issue with a band that you know and have set up, but I almost never have the luxury of running the same act on the same desk more than once in a row. I also hate to see it going into applications where a more capable desk is needed, but because this is now available for what it costs to hire an engineer to run it for a few days, the StudioLive is substituted. Of course, trying to fight against market forces is a losing battle. |
Dave Bjornson wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 04:39 | ||||
O please let me tell you why they're not for me!!! I own two which I purchased without evaluating for a last minute show, and I've never recorded ONE SHOW successfully. Dropouts galore, on different tracks at different times, tested with multiple drives and laptops tweeked for multimedia use. Cross your fingers when you plug in the firewire cable as it freezes both my desks over 50% of the time. God forbid you try and actually link the consoles together, as the odds go down from there. After 10 shows, the faders on the older console already feel quirky compared to the new one. Add in the 2 second mute on scene change, cludgy rubber buttons and the on/off non-variable switching of FX returns to Auxes, and I think you have a real loser product. Mine are both delegated to the "community talent show rig". Worst purchase of 2010. YMMV |
Dave Bjornson wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 21:39 |
O please let me tell you why they're not for me!!! I own two which I purchased without evaluating for a last minute show, and I've never recorded ONE SHOW successfully. Dropouts galore, on different tracks at different times, tested with multiple drives and laptops tweeked for multimedia use. Cross your fingers when you plug in the firewire cable as it freezes both my desks over 50% of the time. God forbid you try and actually link the consoles together, as the odds go down from there. After 10 shows, the faders on the older console already feel quirky compared to the new one. Add in the 2 second mute on scene change, cludgy rubber buttons and the on/off non-variable switching of FX returns to Auxes, and I think you have a real loser product. Mine are both delegated to the "community talent show rig". Worst purchase of 2010. YMMV |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 15:17 |
Howdy fellas, Ace here....don't want to start any trouble.....just thought I'd make a few points. First of all, what's wrong with the Prius? |
Steve Payne wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 17:32 | ||
Hiya Ace, I won't touch the rest of this discussion, other than to say: Glad the Presonus deal is working out for you. But, really, what's wrong with a Prius!! My wife owned one for about a year and a half, so I got a lot more up close exposure than I needed. Granted, I am a "car guy", but please, a Prius for gawd's sake!!! The Prius provides the most divorced, alienated, totally unsatisfying driving experience I have ever endured. Granted, it creates the illusion of being good to the environment and being cheap to operate. A nearsighted, short term smoke and mirrors trick at best. How long will the batteries last? How will they be disposed of? How much will it cost to replace them? How much will it cost to repair any other part of this extremely complicated system? But much important than any of that stuff -what a total POS driving experience. No key. No satisfying engine rumble (or at least purrrr!) No gear shift. A back up camera so you won't have to look in your rear view mirrors or over your shoulder to see what's behind you. A freaking back up beep, beep, beep INSIDE the car to remind you that you are going backwards (but not outside to warn the unaware pedestrian that you are about to back over them)....and there is NO option to disengage this stupid, useless feature. BEEP,BEEP,BEEP,BEEP....oh, I must be in reverse, thank's for that. Also love the cartoon animation that occupies half the dash, letting you know if you are running of the battery powered motor or the anemic 4 cylinder booster engine. Mission critical information at it's best! Steering, brakes, accelerator are all completely divorced of any feel for what they are doing. In a year and a half, the sole redeeming feature of this miserable mode of transportation (it does not DESERVE to be called a car) was dribbling gas into the tank at the the gas station. A benefit paid for dearly by every other negative attribute. That's what's wrong with a Prius. Cheers. |
Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 08:03 |
IME the problems with the recording feature not working and the board locking up as a result are just as likely to be from the computer as the unit itself. Or to put it another way, the two units (comp and desk) won't talk to each other. Mac users seem to have fewer if any problems here, but PC users (I'm one) have a fight on their hands. The way it has been explained to me is that the many selectable parameters in a PC are difficult to write program for when creating the recording interface while the Mac platform has fewer variables with which to cope, ergo fewer failures. I'm naive enough to give this some credence. There was a thread on setup difficulty started by Mary America. He has since gotten it up and running and the last I heard had it working with a PC......which he purpose built strictly for recording. It does that and nothing else. Of course, building computers is his profession so his skills are tailor-made for the task. Not something that your average soundie could do without a tutor. Tom Reid and a few other Labsters could probably help me out with an explanation with more experience behind it. |
Kristian Johnsen wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 05:06 | ||||||
Wow. Quick question. Does this mean that when the artist asks "can I have reverb in the monitors" the answer is either "yes" or "no"? |
Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 15:03 | ||
IME the problems with the recording feature not working and the board locking up as a result are just as likely to be from the computer as the unit itself. Or to put it another way, the two units (comp and desk) won't talk to each other. Mac users seem to have fewer if any problems here, but PC users (I'm one) have a fight on their hands. The way it has been explained to me is that the many selectable parameters in a PC are difficult to write program for when creating the recording interface while the Mac platform has fewer variables with which to cope, ergo fewer failures. I'm naive enough to give this some credence. There was a thread on setup difficulty started by Mary America. He has since gotten it up and running and the last I heard had it working with a PC......which he purpose built strictly for recording. It does that and nothing else. Of course, building computers is his profession so his skills are tailor-made for the task. Not something that your average soundie could do without a tutor. Tom Reid and a few other Labsters could probably help me out with an explanation with more experience behind it. Ta. |
Kristian Johnsen wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 09:36 | ||||
What did a 02R cost when it came out? And how was the feature set compared to a digital mixer of today? New tech has to start somewhere. Hybrids/electrics will get there IMO. And some design features in whatever car you and I buy 10 years from may be based on the failures of the Prius. Just saying. |
Art Welter wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 20:06 | ||||||
Steam power preceded electric power by about sixty years, and electrics preceded gas powered autos by about twenty years.Electric vehicles have been around since the 1830s, I'm not holding my breath regarding the "new tech". By the way, one guy working out of his garage in Minneapolis in around 1992 built a hybrid using off the shelf parts from his day job at Tenant (they make electric and fuel powered cleaning equipment), and a kit VW Kharman Ghia that did better than 60 mpg, and would beat the pants off a Prius. Total costs IIRC were less than $20,000. Meanwhile, the big three USA auto manufactures were asking for billions in government funding for "research" to achieve that same goal... |
Steve Payne wrote on Sat, 08 January 2011 05:32 |
....really, what's wrong with a Prius!! Cheers. |
Moby (Mike Diack) wrote on Fri, 07 January 2011 20:08 | ||
Hey, it's the only car you can use as a whole house UPS http://priups.com/ Brought to you by the bloke who invented some of pro-audio's best loved toys. |
Michael Ace Baker wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 14:00 |
I used 2 different consoles (1 in L.A. and 1 in Europe), and the PCAudioLabs Rok Box to record. I would record straight to the computer's hard drive and then dump to an independent hard drive after the show. |