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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: Josh Evangelista on April 22, 2016, 02:57:32 AM
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Hi everyone,
I currently own 4 red SRX835ps together with 4 SRX828sps. Im about to drop the ball on a pair of Void Acoustics Air Motion. I really love the specs and aesthetics of Void. I already own a pair of white Void Airtens which I intend to use as DJ monitors. Currently I get hired for small-medium private DJ club events including weddings but I also would like to get into underground house music events as I promote and DJ these events myself and these Air Motions are really an eye popper for the ordinary clubber. As I cant afford to purchase the Stasys X horn subs, I am thinking of just using my 4 SRX828sp subwoofers to pair with the Void tops for the meantime. However someone told me I will need to have the guys at Void program the sub to match the Air Motions which I think is needed to move from horn to reflex subs, granting I use the SRXs.
I'd like to ask for advice if I should stick with the 4 SRX828sp with 2 on each side, or upgrade to 4 passive SRX828S, or buy something that will pair better with the Air Motions? I plan to sell all 4 SRX835ps, which I am not sure at the moment if it is wise to do. I also plan to stick with the Air Motions for all my events.
Thank you!
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I know this is off topic, but how did you get red SRX boxes? And why?
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I know this is off topic, but how did you get red SRX boxes? And why?
Id like to put some character on the speakers lol. I took off the grilles and had them custom powder coated. JBL says its fine.
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I'd like to ask for advice if I should stick with the 4 SRX828sp with 2 on each side, or upgrade to 4 passive SRX828S, or buy something that will pair better with the Air Motions? I plan to sell all 4 SRX835ps, which I am not sure at the moment if it is wise to do. I also plan to stick with the Air Motions for all my events.
Thank you!
Josh,
It appears a "visually striking appearance for style-led environments" is your primary goal, as the 50 degree horizontal dispersion and 140 Hz lower cutoff of the Void Air Motions is unlikely to work well for all your events, unless they all happen to be in shotgun shacks.
The SRX828sp won't be the weak link in the chain, though 140 Hz is on the high side for them. I'd suggest hanging on to the SRX835ps until you have had a chance to compare them to the Void, and determine that the Void does what you want from an audio standpoint.
Art
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Josh,
It appears a "visually striking appearance for style-led environments" is your primary goal, as the 50 degree horizontal dispersion and 140 Hz lower cutoff of the Void Air Motions is unlikely to work well for all your events, unless they all happen to be in shotgun shacks.
The SRX828sp won't be the weak link in the chain, though 140 Hz is on the high side for them. I'd suggest hanging on to the SRX835ps until you have had a chance to compare them to the Void, and determine that the Void does what you want from an audio standpoint.
Art
Thanks Art. The SRX based on specs can only go 120Hz.
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Void may be able to give you processing data but I doubt they'll be able to provide you with a Device or Preset file for Harman HiQnet "Audio Architect", the software needed to do this work. You'll end up building the preset in your subs by calling up a blank preset in the sub with A.A., entering the various parameter settings from Void, and saving it to the sub (and your computer).
I'd think the fantasy "look" of a Void or Funktion One rig is the antithesis of most wedding work.
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Void may be able to give you processing data but I doubt they'll be able to provide you with a Device or Preset file for Harman HiQnet "Audio Architect", the software needed to do this work. You'll end up building the preset in your subs by calling up a blank preset in the sub with A.A., entering the various parameter settings from Void, and saving it to the sub (and your computer).
I'd think the fantasy "look" of a Void or Funktion One rig is the antithesis of most wedding work.
The stasys and arcline look pretty normal to me.
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Void may be able to give you processing data but I doubt they'll be able to provide you with a Device or Preset file for Harman HiQnet "Audio Architect", the software needed to do this work. You'll end up building the preset in your subs by calling up a blank preset in the sub with A.A., entering the various parameter settings from Void, and saving it to the sub (and your computer).
I'd think the fantasy "look" of a Void or Funktion One rig is the antithesis of most wedding work.
Tim I dont think there will be for the HiQnet. My concern right now is the 20hz hole in between the Air Motions and the SRX if I decide to use them together. With weddings, I actually plan to cover them with Airtens which may have an visual appeal as Airmotions are too big and looks weird. However, I will be slowly moving away from these types of events. The bulk of my rentals will be mainly underground DJ events where these Air Motions and the Stasys X can really shine. Its just hard to justify purchasing the whole rig at the moment. I do plan to maintain a variety of brands with Voids being the primary and another prosumer brand as backup for smaller events. However, I am trying to see if I can make money from using AirMotions as front.
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Tim I dont think there will be for the HiQnet. My concern right now is the 20hz hole in between the Air Motions and the SRX if I decide to use them together.
You are talking about an ELECTRICAL hole-NOT an acoustical hole.
In almost every case-the subs will be run at quite a bit higher level than the tops.
So the ACOUSTICAL crossover will actually be higher than the electrical.
There are a lot "it depends" in this situation and assumptions (such as do the full range boxes go to the rated low end response flat? or are they rolled off by some amount or a large amount at that that freq).
My guess is that there will not be a hole (unless you don't have a good alignment between the subs and tops-in which case you could have a HUGE HOLE).
And if the freq response actually overlapped-with a bad alignment- you could actually have a LARGER HOLE than if they don't overlap.
Simple numbers often give simple wrong answers
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Id like to put some character on the speakers lol. I took off the grilles and had them custom powder coated. JBL says its fine.
I don't personally want red speakers grills, but I have to say I think that looks pretty cool. Even better after I went to the Void site.
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Thanks Art. The SRX based on specs can only go 120Hz.
Ivan's advice is what I was thinking too. Do those things just sit on a pole? I can't really tell from their web site.
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Ivan's advice is what I was thinking too. Do those things just sit on a pole? I can't really tell from their web site.
A quick google suggests pole is definitely an option:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8a/e6/1d/8ae61d60f314ca7a7351d74c753309b7.jpg)
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You are talking about an ELECTRICAL hole-NOT an acoustical hole.
In almost every case-the subs will be run at quite a bit higher level than the tops.
So the ACOUSTICAL crossover will actually be higher than the electrical.
There are a lot "it depends" in this situation and assumptions (such as do the full range boxes go to the rated low end response flat? or are they rolled off by some amount or a large amount at that that freq).
My guess is that there will not be a hole (unless you don't have a good alignment between the subs and tops-in which case you could have a HUGE HOLE).
And if the freq response actually overlapped-with a bad alignment- you could actually have a LARGER HOLE than if they don't overlap.
Simple numbers often give simple wrong answers
If the Airmotions can go lower until 140hz and the SRX828sp high up until 120Hz, dont you call that a hole granting the other variables are present?
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The poles are sold at the time you buy the speakers. Its made by Void.
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If the Airmotions can go lower until 140hz and the SRX828sp high up until 120Hz, dont you call that a hole granting the other variables are present?
NO.
Only if the subs are ran at the same acoustic level as the tops.
I have NEVER seen ANY DJ or dance or EDM system run that way.
In many cases the subs are ran 20-25dB HOTTER than the top.
So there would actually be a overlap of freq-NOT a hole.
But of course without seeing the actual freq response, it is hard to be 100% sure.
As I said earlier, electrically they would "appear" to be a hole, but ACOUSTICALLY (the important area) there won't be.
It is IMPORTANT to understand that the sound does not STOP at the crossover points or upper or lower freq response points, but rather SLOPES at some rate.
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NO.
Only if the subs are ran at the same acoustic level as the tops.
I have NEVER seen ANY DJ or dance or EDM system run that way.
In many cases the subs are ran 20-25dB HOTTER than the top.
So there would actually be a overlap of freq-NOT a hole.
But of course without seeing the actual freq response, it is hard to be 100% sure.
As I said earlier, electrically they would "appear" to be a hole, but ACOUSTICALLY (the important area) there won't be.
It is IMPORTANT to understand that the sound does not STOP at the crossover points or upper or lower freq response points, but rather SLOPES at some rate.
Gotcha. I didnt realize that but right I think its wise to test and see visually how high can the sub go. Now I just have to figure out if I continue with the SRXs to pair with the Airmotions or buy a diff brand other than a Void sub.
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Gotcha. I didnt realize that but right I think its wise to test and see visually how high can the sub go. Now I just have to figure out if I continue with the SRXs to pair with the Airmotions or buy a diff brand other than a Void sub.
It is NOT just a matter of how high the subs can go, but ALSO how LOW the full range cabinets can go.
Very often the freq of the -3dB point on the spec sheet is often -10dB, when looking at THEIR OWN data. It would take 4 times the power at those freq to make that up.
The "simple numbers" often give VERY WRONG ideas of the ACTUAL performance.
You HAVE to look a bit deeper to the REAL data.
Sometimes they give it to you, sometimes they don't.
It seems to getting pretty popular these days to not provide any real useful data.
That way the manufacturer cannot be "held" to a particular spec.
Coverage patterns like "wide" and "narrow" don't really tell very much. Is "wide" 90* or 120* and at what freq?
And just how loud is "adequate"? anyway----------
Hey-but it keeps you guessing anyway :)
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Ive done some work with void boxes. Recently Ive been working on a growing trimotion system. I cant imagine carting them around tho a few companies here do it. They do sound fantastic. Your subs will be just fine if you run them high enough. As to pole mounting, they dont use standard poles tho void sells several options. Normally they use standard gas pipe that you can get at threaded at home depot. This is actually nice as you can get several lengths depending on your needs. Void is rather into custom design tho so Im pretty sure they will fabricate to fit your needs. Personally Id just stick with the subs you have until you can afford the correct matching subs. You should be able to make them sound fine with just about any processor.
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I've got about seven years experience with various iterations of the Air Motion and have six in inventory at present - we regularly use them with their own double 18" reflex box which is not going to be a million miles from the SRX you have. Presets will differ based on amp and DSP so really it would be best to pull something together with somebody who can do some transfer functions for you. And yes as Ivan has said the acoustic crossover when you're running the subs at a normal DJ event level is close enough that there is no massively noticeable hole.
What amps and processing are you planning to use with the Air Motion?
Also of note is that the dispersion is conical and closer to 60 degrees, so using the distance pole options and getting them up suitably high means they are very much point and shoot - and at the distances the crowd usually end up being we find that a pair covers quite a sizeable area. In fact this weekend just gone I had one Air Motion a side over 3 of the Stasys X v2 double 18" horn loaded subs for 700 people and it was nowhere near being pushed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ive done some work with void boxes. Recently Ive been working on a growing trimotion system. I cant imagine carting them around tho a few companies here do it. They do sound fantastic. Your subs will be just fine if you run them high enough. As to pole mounting, they dont use standard poles tho void sells several options. Normally they use standard gas pipe that you can get at threaded at home depot. This is actually nice as you can get several lengths depending on your needs. Void is rather into custom design tho so Im pretty sure they will fabricate to fit your needs. Personally Id just stick with the subs you have until you can afford the correct matching subs. You should be able to make them sound fine with just about any processor.
Thank you! This was a great advice.
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I've got about seven years experience with various iterations of the Air Motion and have six in inventory at present - we regularly use them with their own double 18" reflex box which is not going to be a million miles from the SRX you have. Presets will differ based on amp and DSP so really it would be best to pull something together with somebody who can do some transfer functions for you. And yes as Ivan has said the acoustic crossover when you're running the subs at a normal DJ event level is close enough that there is no massively noticeable hole.
What amps and processing are you planning to use with the Air Motion?
Also of note is that the dispersion is conical and closer to 60 degrees, so using the distance pole options and getting them up suitably high means they are very much point and shoot - and at the distances the crowd usually end up being we find that a pair covers quite a sizeable area. In fact this weekend just gone I had one Air Motion a side over 3 of the Stasys X v2 double 18" horn loaded subs for 700 people and it was nowhere near being pushed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi Kyle. I plan to use Void amps which have built-in DSPs. The dealer will be able to provide the settings. I was looking to save by using Powersoft amps but theyre on the same price range so I guess Void amps will suit it best. So you ran one airmotion with 3 Stasys X on each side?
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Hi Kyle. I plan to use Void amps which have built-in DSPs. The dealer will be able to provide the settings. I was looking to save by using Powersoft amps but theyre on the same price range so I guess Void amps will suit it best. So you ran one airmotion with 3 Stasys X on each side?
The Void amps are OEM Powersoft K series, so you're all good there. And yes it's a good fit, they go very loud.
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The Void amps are OEM Powersoft K series, so you're all good there. And yes it's a good fit, they go very loud.
So will 3 SRX828sp on each side identical to this setup?
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Well it won't be identical, probably bit less SPL overall and not sure on stacking height as the JBL isn't so popular over here, but it should work well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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A quick google suggests pole is definitely an option:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8a/e6/1d/8ae61d60f314ca7a7351d74c753309b7.jpg)
Wow! So that is what a "visually striking appearance for style-led environments" looks like? Looks like a Warner Bros. cartoon to me!