Post by: israel ramirez on February 24, 2005, 11:01:01 AM
I have heard the tx's, but i want to know if the 850's are louder.
I have also considered building them myself with B&C TBX100 drivers according to the design at:
http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=3&categoria=45&a mp;prodotto=142
A drawback of the tx'x is that they are heavier (not sure) than the eaw's, and I often work at venues on second floors.
So I guess that weight is also an issue.
Any input on this will be appreciated. Thanks
Post by: [x] on February 24, 2005, 02:20:48 PM
Post by: Michael_Elliston¶ on February 24, 2005, 03:03:15 PM
| BHFProfessional wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 19:20 |
You should have put this on the LAB. The title of this forum is somewhat misleading. It deals with one particular subwoofer, the LAB Horn subwoofer designed by Tom Danley, formerly of SPL/Servodrive. |
Home of the LAB Subwoofer Project, with on-line design work, access to plans and data, and plenty of "sub talk".
Post by: Mike MacWillie on February 24, 2005, 06:17:43 PM
| BHFProfessional wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 11:20 |
You should have put this on the LAB. The title of this forum is somewhat misleading. It deals with one particular subwoofer, the LAB Horn subwoofer designed by Tom Danley, formerly of SPL/Servodrive. |
Then why is the crusher posted here?
Post by: Steve Shafer on February 25, 2005, 11:20:08 AM
First off Mr BHFProfessional surely gets his share of free promotion from the LAB for his own "designs"(see his post below), but he calls you on the carpet for your post?
The determination of what is or is not appropriate for this forum is up to Craig. So I would not wory about your TX-9 vs SB850 post for right now. Follow to the end of this quote for some comments about the two subs in question.
"BHFProfessional
Messages: 203
Registered: August 2004
Location: West Lafayette, IN Has No Life
Stack two per side and get out of the way!
From the designer of the BH10 "Crusher" bass horn, which gave new meaning to "Portable Performance", comes the newest addition to the BHFProfessional family of professional high-performance horn speakers - the BHFProfessional V-2. The V-2 is a highly-specialized horn-loaded LF enclosure. It does not reach deeply into subwoofer frequencies, but it provides outstanding reinforcement to low frequency sound, with long-throw peformance that's tough to match. The V-2 is well at home in outdoor performances, where long throw and high output are priorities, while ultra-deep LF performance may not be. The enclosure itself is relatively compact: 20" wide x 28" deep x 36" high. Yet it horn-loades twin 15" woofers, which allows it to serve up concert-level LF with power and punch.
Real Performance:
Marketing-speak only gets you so far in the world of pro audio, where tangible benefits MUST be proven in order to prove a product's worth. Early simulations of the V-2's enclosure, which is like a W-bin on steroids (but with some notable improvements), show surprisingly good results. One enclosure has a +/-3dB response of 55-330 Hz, with a slight +3dB rise near 200 Hz, in the range commonly referred to as the "punch" frequencies, thus filling the greatest design goal of the V-2. Through the passband, the single enclosure has an average sensitivity of 108dB 1w/1m. The V-2 horn-loads two widely-available Peavey Black Widow BWX1508-8 woofers. These woofers have an added benefit: Field-replaceable basket/cone assemblies. When a woofer fails, it's usually the voice coil or suspension components. The precisely-machined metal components of the motor assembly can be removed from the back of the BWX-series woofers, and a new basket and cone assembly can be installed. This is less expensive than replacing entire woofers if a part of them should fail. For applications where extension to 55 hz is not sufficient (such as rap, hip-hop, R&B, and some flavors of pop), you can pair the V-2 with a folded horn subwoofer like the upcoming BH15 "Carnivore" folded horn subwoofer, featuring Peavey Low Rider subwoofer drivers with the same replaceable basket/cone features, but extended LF performance.
Timetable:
Expect more detailed simulation data and enclosure construction plans to be made available in February or March of 2005, unless interest is extremely high. Otherwise I'll just focus on getting some BH10 "Crusher" plans drawn using CAD.
[Updated on: Fri, 10 December 2004 19:09]
------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
Rory Buszka
BHFSpeakers
BHFProfessional"
The original TX-8 used the RCF L18p300. I believe the TX-9 did as well. Yorkville then switched to the B&C driver. There are some on the LAB (see archives) who believe the older version to be a better sub.
The original SB850 (not z) also had the RCF L18p300 drivers as well. I have heard that the Z version uses a variation of the AEB/18 Sound L18w1400. It is a very impressive driver at a very reasonable price. Universal music is the 18 Sound US distibutor
Both of these subs are pretty well respected subwoofers. From a DIY point of veiw, the TX-8s might be easier to build, but you want to reverse engineer the TX-9 which is not inproduction anymore.
I would not go by the quoted SPL specs for either box unless it is clarified if the spec is calculated or measured and under what circumstances.
Charlie Tappa @ pro sound service in Brain Tree MA is an expert on B&C and RCF drivers, perhaps he could give you a few pointers on your project. He would be able to clarify which driver from B&C would be the best replacement for the RCF L18p300. BTW Charlie will be one of RCF's new dealers and driver repair centers.
Welcome to the LAB. It seems to me that your question is "Sub Talk" and you are not promoting your own products or designs nor are you making your subs for commerical purposes.
Steve S
Post by: Dave Rickard on February 26, 2005, 04:01:30 PM
| BHFProfessional wrote on Fri, 25 February 2005 17:10 |
The Crusher is a 10" design. I have considered a Super Crusher with a 12" driver, but it would take a longer time to develop. I still haven't had a chance yet to do the 3D modeling for the prototype Crusher, even though I have the thing on paper. I still want to see if I can make the Crusher only 15" or 14.5" wide for truck packing if I possibly can. I have not that much on the project in the past month or so, because the time just hasn't been there. I hope to get the 3D modeling done in the week before Spring Break so I can build the prototype. |
| Craig Leerman, Forum Moderator wrote: |
OK, I'm getting a little tired of all the "new" subwoofer design posts where the poster brags about how great their design will be, but unfortunately they have not made one! So here is the deal. I don't want to see a post introducing any new designs as a completed project unless you have actually measured A REAL ONE! This does not mean that you can't discuss a new design, or its merrits. Of course, general subwoofer theory and design questions can still be posted. EXAMPLE of what not to do in a post: "Here is my new Discombobulator (tm) sub that will blow anything away using an 8" Radio Shack speaker. I havn't built one yet, but my computer calculation show that in a stack of 4 they make a Lab Sub cry!" EXAMPLE of an acceptable post: "I've been working on a small portable sub based around a Rat Shack 8" speaker. Here is what the computer program shows it will do. What do you guys think?" If you want to brag and basically ADVERTISE your design, then GET YOUR OWN WEB PAGE and provide a link to it in a post. If you want to discuss the merrits of a design, feel free to do so here. But knock off the "My sub blows the doors off yours crap" especially since no real measurments have been made! While you guys can't see it, I have had to delete a few posts that took this "one-upmanship" to the stupid level. Here are the basic rules of this forum. * You can discuss any aspect of the LAB subs, from construction, to operation, to redesigning them. This forum is first and foremost about the LAB SUB project. * You can discuss all subwoofer theory and design concepts. Reverse engineering a manufacturers box so you can build one is out, but concepts and application for any manufactures box are on topic. * General woodworking and shop questions. Where to buy wood, parts, etc. Even construction hints and tricks. Basically, anything to do with the construction of the LAB in specific, or in cabinet building in general is allowed here. * Compatible High Packs for the LAB, including design projects for a top box. * Comparisons, or shootout results between subs, especially if they involve the LAB * Any other SUBWOOFER Box designs and ideas including amplification issues for subwoofers and cabling. * Pictures of LAB subs and other projects subs, or topboxes for the lab Because this is a professional forum, we expect a few things from the participants. * A REAL NAME. If you want to participate in an adult professional forum, a name is required. The only exception to this rule is if you are in the Witness Protection Program, and then you may use the alias given to you by the FBI! You may use a handle as your login, but you must put a real name in the body of your post. * A LITTLE SEARCHING BEFORE POSTING. Many questions and topics have been beat to death. Do a search on the site or on Google before posting not only here, but on all of PSW forums. * READ THE RULES. Read the different forum rules before jumping into the discussions. Many forums have different rules and operating principles. In general, The LAB, Lighting, LAB SUB, and Install forums have the same guidelines. The LAB LOUNGE allows the use of handles, and is a little looser. The MARSH and REC Pit forums have entirely different guidelines. * A LITTLE LURKING BEFORE JOINING. Read the past posts and get a feel for the forum you want to participate in. That way you will get an idea of who some of the regulars are, and how the place works. Craig Leerman Forum Moderator Prosoundweb.com Craig @ prosoundweb.com Soundmancraig @ yahoo.com [Updated on: Thu, 27 January 2005 02:39] |
Post by: Adam Kane on March 10, 2005, 03:20:32 PM
As far as building them, each driver has it's own cavity and porting is located towards the outsides of the baffle. May be a little tricky but as long as you've got the tools and know-how, it shouldn't be impossible.
I don't have any personal experience with the EAW sub so I can't be of any help there.
adam
Post by: Peter Morris on March 10, 2005, 05:53:50 PM
The only other thing I should add is that you will find that an RCF 18P300 has a certain sound to it, it has quite a bit of 2nd harmonic distortion that a lot of people love while the 18sound or RCF precision range have much less. Although they are probably capable of more output than the 18P300 they may not sound that way.
Peter
Post by: Tim Padrick on March 16, 2005, 10:55:08 PM
Post by: Gareth James on March 17, 2005, 08:01:14 AM
Post by: Johan Rademakers on March 17, 2005, 08:26:05 AM
Mvg Johan
Post by: David Lee on March 17, 2005, 02:55:02 PM
The cgn 1808 was comissioned by us at BASSMAXX for inclusion into our subwoofer horns. We have changed some of the materials that were originally spec's on the 1808 to better suit our horn-loading needs. We now call it a ZR18. We feel the benefits of this driver can only be fully realized by horn loading it. We also hold exclusive rights to the driver for horn-loaded applications. We are currently negotiating a contract with an importer in Europe. If all goes well the drivers will also be made availble through them. Check with me about availability in a few weeks. If you are interested in knowing all the details about the cgn woofer and/or the changes we've made, feel free to write to me and look for updates on http://www.bassmaxx.com which will be posted when the drivers become available.
Regards,
Post by: Steve Shafer on March 17, 2005, 07:17:34 PM
What changes are you having made to the Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 driver that you use in your "budget" level subs? These drivers are allready pretty solid and represent a real value product. I would think that you would have lowered the FS and raised the xmax a bit??
Steve S
Post by: Juan Pablo Cuervo on March 06, 2006, 07:56:56 PM
like:
B&C 18NW100,
BMSpro.info 18N850
aurasound NRT18-8
& others
looking for deep subs 32-40-50Hz-64Hz, ? feel it
2x JBL 2241H in a 18cu.ft or 509liters box, tunned to 33Hz.
or 1x 2241H in a 9cu.ft box
the JBL sounds great & feels great original its the SR4719A/2/x
but remember fletcher & munson equal loudness curves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves
http://www.rane.com/par-f.html
look fletcher munsn history
looking similar deep performance in a smaller box?, look for RCF L18P300. box like meyer 650 clone, i think its better than Yorville TX9s,
looking for +3dB loud bass? hear it loud, 100Hz-200Hz, but not loose much of the deep ?
look for RCF L18S800 or Beyma 18-G50, in a vended box, 6cu.ft 38Hz each driver,
Beyma 18g50 its more recomended becouse it has the biggest SD of any 18" has more than a SD of 13!!!! and 9mm Xmax!!!!, and great BL!!!!
want an even Louder bass, but not sub bass, ???
cerwinvega B36 clone, or T36 clone, with Beyma 18G50,
or many similar folded horns, that are like
http://www.cerwinvega.com/products/professional/vegabass/ima ges/foldedhorn.gif
S shaped or longer complex W-Bins like EV TL4025 TL4050, or EAW 882 bertha subs need a stronger cone and lots of BL and Xmax, McCauley 6174, Aura NRT18-8, BMSpro.info 18N850 has 31BL and 13mm Xmax but unknown cone strengh at least equal to all paper cones out there,
the ciare 12.00sw 15.00sw & 18.00sw, have a poor SPL response in the 100-200Hz but have the strongest cone, and great BL,
cerwinvega has the T-36 but does not sound earthquake to me,
but has an interesting BL52! and 1/2inch Xmax,
or download the Electrovoice TL4025 1x15" vintage plans at he bottom links, and multiply it by 1.2 x 15" = 18"
or
http://members.aol.com/xxbase80a/
its a great site, he has made all those vintage box plans, and MEASURE THEM! the Freq Responce!!,
has the JBL W-Bin 1x18, but the html code its grong, but the files can be accesed by this link:
http://members.aol.com/xxbase80a/w18.bin/
the TL40XX response curves are a bit dissapointing, I guess becouse the drivers that were used! a new stronger BL , bigger Xmax, would / should give better results!
thats why i want to make them, just for fun
or at least recreate them in the hornresp software thats so great!
http://www.users.bigpond.com/dmcbean/
but read first the GREAT Help tutorial at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.php?page=Loudspeaker
I think/heard the JBL keele W-Bin 1x18" its better
has the loude bass and becouse it has a vented box it has also verry nice deep bass, but intead of the JBL 2240h, a Rcf l18s800 or a beyma 18g50 would be extreme better!
the site says that the 2x15 W-bin has more than JBL W-Bin of deep bass, but... becouse it has 2 drivers that sums way bigger SD, also its wider and does not fit in small doorways ,
i like more the 1x18 ,
even smaller box with out loosing subs? ISOBARIC its the name,
isobaric means twice watts, half box, in speacial driver compound,
isobaric its great, if you like small, and deep,
you can make Isobaric compound = 2x 18" drivers facing in a push+pull separated by a 1" or 1.25" wood ring = same signal , same watts but 1 with reverse polarity = 1 isobaric = 1 normal but isobaric has half 1/2 the box size, and quake feeling increase, becouse the twice hard cone mass & twice watts, no other desing beats the deep sub bass in such small box, too bad JBL 2241H has a bit dificult to make in isobaric becouse the aluminium in the speaker its lower than the foam = too bad becouse the JBL 2241H ask big box for deep bass,
it could be done by cutting or melting the foam at the level of the aluminium and usign 1.25" ring or 2 glued 3/4" rings at the edge, should be so GREAT to make them, a 2x Isobaric of 18" JBL 2241H, its a real portable QUAKE , 2 isobarics of JBL 2241h in one box, but just one isobaric gives great deep in a incredible 1/2 enclosure! but Xmax mmmmmm,
or Aura Sound NRT18-8 has similar box requeriments and freq. response than a JBL 2241h in any software but with way bigger Xmax of 18mm and great BL!
Just BEWare That front facing Isobaric needs more than 6mm of Xmax, driver reach the Xmax too easy,
the EV EVX180B dont have enough Xmax
The McCauley 6174 also asks for big vented box to deliver deep bass in the sotware, it looks in the software that could be great for front isobaric too!
also BMSpro.info 18N850 looks GREAT, but has a bit poor freq. response, but has 1200W, or others could be great, even the Ciare 18.00SW but has even poor SPL,
or Beyma 18G50 that has such great SD!, 1 isobaric in a 3.cu.ft box tunned to 33Hz? or 35Hz? or 38Hz? imagine that!
the eminence software, gives a compound isobarich in puch pull, both drivers separated by the same box, BUT, only if the box has 1" or better 1.25" MDF , and a real door,
its easy to make a 1" 1.25" ring to separate them, and use really LONG Screws! with butterflys
Isobaric its great for cars with small space,
look download eminence.com designer software for more info,
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/ cabinet/maincab.htm
make any box in MDF with lots of wood glue & long wood screws, 3/4" if you want light, 1" if you want strong box, minium for isobaric, or 1.25" MDF = the best but really heavy,
be shure to make wheels like community vlf-218 or meyer 650 makes life really easy to carry arround, JBL original SR4719x are almost imposible to carry, but sound great
then buy some plastic black finish to paint the boxes, make several layers, allow them to dry enough,
and for vented boxes, 1 big vent port in the center of the box for 2x18", i think and hear sounds better than several smaller ports, BUT manufacturers lke makie say that more distributed ventss are better for cone distortion at high drive levels, your choise, make 1 big 33Hz vent for 2x18" in a 18cu.ft or 8 smaller vents arround the 2x18", or make 4 for 1x18" driver,
unless its the W-Bin 1x18", your choise
to make your own boxes you must have access to a table circular fixed rotating saw with mettering, AND a fixed wood leveler table also with mettering and angles, thats a drum roll with 3 knives rotating in a table, AND a powerfull more than 400W Electric Driller with reverse and some screw heads, to screw the screws,
wood sides must fit perfectly before glue and screws,
want a concert SPL sound? emacoustics.co.uk ms-118 in groups of 8, minium 4x,
EAW DSC2 , bh822, la400, bassmaxx
all horn loaded bass must be in groups of 8, horns need to be big to fit the bass wave lenght, or wont go low,
or make your own, keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin in groups of 8, 2x4,
or buy them made from sonic or used from stageaccompany.com vintage used to make that keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin,
use the W-Bins with Beyma 18G50, or RCF L18S800, or RCF P300, or others that make almost JBL 2241h deep bass in a 5.cu.ft 35Hz box,
or make the precision-devices.com 2x24" PD.2450, WOW!!!
that could sound & feel so Amazing! with a RMX2450 for each box 2x24"
or
http://www.egbeck.de/speaker.htm
the california looks interesting
http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/links_page.html
look in small letters for EV TL4025 TL4050 scanns 4 pages
http://mitglied.lycos.de/crusher844/plaene.html
look for eaw la400 interesting
http://www.speakerplans.com/
look the FAQ
http://melhuish.org/audio/horn.htm
if want to know more about horns
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc
or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake% 20B36%20Baskast.doc
but with beyma 15g50 and longer mouth, exending the open, would sound way better! or the McCauley 6174 could make an interesting boost arround 60Hz!
ive seen punisher similar to earthquake with ciare 12.00sw and 15.00sw and 18.00sw,
speakerstore.nl
has great plans
or many other stuff including eminence and fane books:
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/
also look the first link , uploaded by vanhell
look for the eminece vintage loudspeaker book , or the fane vintage loudspeaker book
or the beyma designs on .pdf
i made my self , a community VLF-218, but bigger! to have enough Cu.Ft for JBL 2241H,
originally i used 2 isobaric peavey 18" blackwidows = 4 in one box, sounded great BUT BlackWidows need bigger box= good for isobaric BUT have small Xmax = not good for Subs!, are OK for bass, but not subs
Now they are loaded with JBL 2241H , 2 each box, has a bit less deep bass than original SR4719x, but... has a bit more in 125Hz & 160Hz, way better than Electrovoice MTL-1x,
they sound really great! & really nice to me,
depends on your taste,
hear more bass or hear less but feel more bass
i like more to feel the bass, than hear it,
you could build a 2x18" vented and put a 4" 2" driver horn on top of it, like jbl 2446j + 2380a, or similar, driver and that sounds Great! and use bi-amplified with a JBL M553 at 500Hz, 24dB/oct, Sounds GREAT! & BIG!
or if you put lots of super tweeters like JBL 2405h or 2402h, or similar at 9kHz
SOUNDS AMAZING!!!
i have it like that, it just sounds BIG & CLEAR & AMAZING!
vented subs can be used for bi-amplified, sub horns must be 3-way,
i think & hear the pyle pro ppm501 "an eminence vintage design 1x15 mid box" sounds better than JBL 4560 mid box or peavey HD115 vintage midbass,
http://www.pyleaudio.com/EL/PPM501.jpg
but with a peavey 1508-8he or 15058 ka dt, or 1501-4 or JBL E130-8, or similar high efficiency 15" driver, would sound GREAT LOUD!! & BIG!@
thers another MB115 vintage midbass design similar to emincence but havent heard it, or dont know the measures to know if its better than eminence design, if its bigger deeper, its better, simple for horns
or the Peavey MB-1 or the MB-2, or the FH-2 subs,
http://www.assistanceaudio.com
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc
or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake% 20B36%20Baskast.doc
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/ cabinet/maincab.htm
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/
make any box in MDF with lots of wood glue & long wood screws, 3/4" if you want light, 1" if you want strong box, minium for isobaric, or 1.25" MDF = the best but really heavy,
be shure to make wheels like community vlf-218 or meyer 650 makes life really easy to carry arround, JBL original SR4719x are almost imposible to carry, but sound great
then buy some plastic black finish to paint the boxes, make several layers, allow them to dry enough,
and for vented boxes, 1 big vent port in the center of the box for 2x18", i think and hear sounds better than several smaller ports, BUT manufacturers lke makie say that more distributed ventss are better for cone distortion at high drive levels, your choise, make 1 big 33Hz vent for 2x18" in a 18cu.ft or 8 smaller vents arround the 2x18", or make 4 for 1x18" driver,
unless its the W-Bin 1x18", your choise
to make your own boxes you must have access to a table circular fixed rotating saw with mettering, AND a fixed wood leveler table also with mettering and angles, thats a drum roll with 3 knives rotating in a table, AND a powerfull more than 400W Electric Driller with reverse and some screw heads, to screw the screws,
wood sides must fit perfectly before glue and screws,
want a concert SPL sound? emacoustics.co.uk ms-118 in groups of 8, minium 4x,
EAW DSC2 , bh822, la400, bassmaxx
all horn loaded bass must be in groups of 8, horns need to be big to fit the bass wave lenght, or wont go low,
or make your own, keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin in groups of 8, 2x4,
or buy them made from sonic or used from stageaccompany.com vintage used to make that keele JBL 1x18" W-Bin,
use the W-Bins with Beyma 18G50, or RCF L18S800, or RCF P300, or others that make almost JBL 2241h deep bass in a 5.cu.ft 35Hz box,
or make the precision-devices.com 2x24" PD.2450, WOW!!!
that could sound & feel so Amazing! with a RMX2450 for each box 2x24"
or
http://www.egbeck.de/speaker.htm
the california looks interesting
http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/links_page.html
look in small letters for EV TL4025 TL4050 scanns 4 pages
http://mitglied.lycos.de/crusher844/plaene.html
look for eaw la400 interesting
http://www.speakerplans.com/
look the FAQ
http://melhuish.org/audio/horn.htm
if want to know more about horns
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc
or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake2 0B36%20Baskast.doc
but with beyma 15g50 and longer mouth, exending the open, would sound way better!
mccauley 6174
has an interesting bass booos arround 60Hz in 3cu.ft enclosures
has great 15mm Xmax, cone strengh, but BL could not handle small closed box and a front loaded short folded horn, but should be great to try it against the Bayma 15G50
ive seen punisher similar to earthquake with ciare 12.00sw and 15.00sw and 18.00sw,
speakerstore.nl
has great plans
or many other stuff including eminence and fane books:
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/
also look the first link , uploaded by vanhell
look for the eminece vintage loudspeaker book , or the fane vintage loudspeaker book
or the beyma designs on .pdf
i made my self , a community VLF-218, but bigger! to have enough Cu.Ft for JBL 2241H,
originally i used 2 isobaric peavey 18" blackwidows = 4 in one box, sounded great BUT BlackWidows need bigger box= good for isobaric BUT have small Xmax = not good for Subs!, are OK for bass, but not subs
Now they are loaded with JBL 2241H , 2 each box, has a bit less deep bass than original SR4719x, but... has a bit more in 125Hz & 160Hz, way better than Electrovoice MTL-1x,
they sound really great! & really nice to me,
depends on your taste,
hear more bass or hear less but feel more bass
i like more to feel the bass, than hear it,
you could build a 2x18" vented and put a 4" 2" driver horn on top of it, like jbl 2446j + 2380a, or similar, driver and that sounds Great! and use bi-amplified with a JBL M553 at 500Hz, 24dB/oct, Sounds GREAT! & BIG!
or if you put lots of super tweeters like JBL 2405h or 2402h, or similar at 9kHz
SOUNDS AMAZING!!!
i have it like that, it just sounds BIG & CLEAR & AMAZING!
vented subs can be used for bi-amplified, sub horns must be 3-way,
i thing & hear the pyle pro ppm501 "an eminence vintage design 1x15 mid box" sounds better than JBL 4560 mid box or peavey HD115 vintage midbass,
http://www.pyleaudio.com/EL/PPM501.jpg
but with a peavey 1508-8he or 15058 ka dt, or 1501-4 or JBL E130-8, or similar high efficiency 15" driver, would sound GREAT LOUD!! & BIG!@
thers another MB115 vintage midbass design similar to emincence but havent heard it, or dont know the measures to know if its better than eminence design, if its bigger deeper, its better, simple for horns
or the Peavey MB-1 or the MB-2, or the FH-2 subs,
http://www.assistanceaudio.com
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/
download the target images, GREAT! W-Bin in 3d!!!
and the original paper:
zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc
or the original cerwinvega B36, with a P300 = crap sound
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/pbaudio/earthquakeB36/Earthquake% 20B36%20Baskast.doc
but with beyma 15g50 and longer mouth, exending the open, would sound way better!
or the mccauley 6174 could make it sound a bit more in 60Hz, if the BL can handle the pressure!
ive seen punisher similar to earthquake with ciare 12.00sw and 15.00sw and 18.00sw,
speakerstore.nl
has great plans
or many other stuff including eminence and fane books:
http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/
also look the first link , uploaded by vanhell
look for the eminece vintage loudspeaker book , or the fane vintage loudspeaker book
or the beyma designs on .pdf
i made my self , a community VLF-218, but bigger! to have enough Cu.Ft for JBL 2241H,
originally i used 2 isobaric peavey 18" blackwidows = 4 in one box, sounded great BUT BlackWidows need bigger box= good for isobaric BUT have small Xmax = not good for Subs!, are OK for bass, but not subs
Now they are loaded with JBL 2241H , 2 each box, has a bit less deep bass than original SR4719x, but... has a bit more in 125Hz & 160Hz, way better than Electrovoice MTL-1x,
they sound really great! & really nice to me,
depends on your taste,
hear more bass or hear less but feel more bass
i like more to feel the bass, than hear it,
you could build a 2x18" vented and put a 4" 2" driver horn on top of it, like jbl 2446j + 2380a, or similar, driver and that sounds Great! and use bi-amplified with a JBL M553 at 500Hz, 24dB/oct, Sounds GREAT! & BIG!
or if you put lots of super tweeters like JBL 2405h or 2402h, or similar at 9kHz
SOUNDS AMAZING!!!
i have it like that, it just sounds BIG & CLEAR & AMAZING!
vented subs can be used for bi-amplified, sub horns must be 3-way,
i thing & hear the pyle pro ppm501 "an eminence vintage design 1x15 mid box" sounds better than JBL 4560 mid box or peavey HD115 vintage midbass,
http://www.pyleaudio.com/EL/PPM501.jpg
but with a peavey 1508-8he or 15058 ka dt, or 1501-4 or JBL E130-8, or similar high efficiency 15" driver, would sound GREAT LOUD!! & BIG!@
thers another MB115 vintage midbass design similar to emincence but havent heard it, or dont know the measures to know if its better than eminence design, if its bigger deeper, its better, simple for horns
or the Peavey MB-1 or the MB-2, or the FH-2 subs,
http://www.assistanceaudio.com
could import the 18N850 BMSpro.info cheap!
Good luck!
Post by: Gareth James on March 06, 2006, 08:46:10 PM
You did get me thinking though... of many a manufacturer of "supposed" (or even in most professionals eyes PROVEN) top end subwoofer drivers, of various sizes, how can we rate the "strength" of a cone....especially given newer designs which quite often rely on the strength of the cone to allow for more extreme loading techniques...
Post by: Chris Coleman 2 on March 07, 2006, 10:01:37 AM
"How does BASSMAXX Technology make such deep bass? ....... The Box-Free design avoids the tendencies of rapid low frequency roll-off and driver unloading that occurs below resonance in all vented boxes. It also avoids the low frequency roll-off and terrible dynamic smother associated with all sealed boxes. (This includes horn cabinets that include a sealed or vented driver sub-enclosure.) .......... "
So... you start to think... LAB sub uses sealed sub-enclosures, right ?? How does bassmax produce a horn loaded sub without putting the driver into a sealed or vented sub-enclosure ?? Is there an another possibly way besides sealed and vented sub-enclosures ??
Post by: Antone Atmarama Bajor on March 08, 2006, 02:37:59 PM
I did read a little about sealed chamber driver horn subs vs. open air driver horn subs (I forget the article but someone here posted a link to it a little while ago).
The author made the assertion that some people find open air more "musical" sounding and find sealed subs more "distant" sounding.
The main problem that was stated about open air subs is that the driver is unevenly loaded for its negative wave so you get amplitude distortion. I believe its similar to using a fet (and maybe tube) as a gain stage in its less linear transfer curve region.
A sealed chamber trys to compensate for lack of loading for the negative portion of the wave.
An ideal exponential/hyperbolic horn would have an identical flair on either side of the driver (if the driver had identical resistance characteristics in either direction to begin with, push pull config may help this). The main problem with this is you would have a giant Bidirectional horn. I don't know about its effect on rapid rolloff after flare cutoff. I don't see how free air subs are any better about not having rapid roll off.
Antone-
Post by: sheldon harris on March 19, 2006, 08:01:31 PM
they do sound "diffrent" but picture it this way, have you ever removed the cover from a cerwin vega earthquake and listen to it?
the loading on the driver that was removed with the cover changed the sound but they still maintained the low frequency!
the bassmaxx reproduces some very low frequency content,and when i actually look at the driver,the cone doesnt seem to be doing anything out of the ordinary as compared to a sealed or vented front loaded box.
my guess is, the horn itself is enough to keep the driver loaded,
along with the fact that the driver is turned back out, which makes for a physically stronger moving mass. ( the horn loads driver on one side,the positive preasure, while on the negative the coil moves back into the magnetic field, and because it is harder to compress a cone from the top, this also helps to load the driver.( elctrovoice is famous for back loading drivers, they are much stronger when the cone/coil is aloud to move back into the field on the outward stroke)
i wonder if anyone would be willing to slap a cover on the back side of a bassmaxx and do an a/b?