Jason Lavoie wrote on Thu, 05 July 2007 01:23 |
I have a situation where I'm running Cobranet from rack to rack and it may be a bit over the 100m maximum length and the only option seems to be to put a switch somewhere in between. the only location that will work is in a drop ceiling air plenum space. is there any way to install a hub in a ceiling that won't violate fire regulations? any cobranet recommended hubs that are nice and small and can be installed right in a pull box? I wish there was a better option, but it seems this is the only place I can put it. |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Thu, 05 July 2007 04:42 |
I was ready to try pushing the limits of cobranet, but a few things have me scared away from that. number one is that the 100m limit is imposed by the computer industry, who can afford a few errors and dropped packets here and there, so if they could go over 100m without too much loss they probably would (and I haven't found many hits on the web of people recommending it) With cobranet (correct me if I'm wrong) even a few errors could be pretty bad right?) add to that the fact that 120m or more of cat5 strewn around my shop could behave very differently once it is installed and in a different environment and if I do get it in and there's a problem, it'll be too late to ask for the necessary stopover point. Jason |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 11:56 |
thanks for the tip. anyone know if they have a reseller in Canada? |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 19:53 |
Sorry to drag this up again, but I had decided to go with the media converter/switch from blackbox mentioned above, but I would like to hear from at least one person who has used their switches successfully with Cobranet. everyone I ask gives me wishy washy answers, and either says only to use really expensive switches, or only switches from brand X the problem is, I really don't want to put an expensive switch (most of which are 48 ports) at each end only two plug in two devices each. Does the amount of traffic affect things? the traffic will be limited to 4 multicast bundles (9 channels total) and 3 unicast bundles (5 channels total) if that helps. Any experience would be appreciated, or even if someone has one of these switches they could try out to save me buying one just to find out it won't work. Thanks. Jason |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 17:30 |
thanks for the recommendation. does that box run on DC? ie: can I feed DC down the conduit instead of having to add an outlet near the pull box? if that is the case then it may well work for me. as for bundles. that's the total number of bundles in my network. not necessarily from one box, so I think I'm still well under the max. I have called Symetrix but they are very hesitant to recommend anything (especially since they didn't design cobranet they just license it) Jason |
Kent Clasen wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 14:27 |
Jason, yes it has a wall wart. As far as Multicast bundle limits, what I have been told is that all units (if they are all on the same network) receive the multicast bundles, regardless of if they have the been programmed to receive it, then they look at it and ignore it if not, but this is what eats up your bandwidth. I believe all of the specs for Cobranet can be found at www.cobranet.info |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 23:00 | ||
I guess it would be good to know if I have a network with 4 devices and a signal that has to get to two of the 4, am I better off with one multicast bundle, or two unicast bundles with only one channel each? I'm using more channels but fewer bundles. it seems like duplication, but if it keeps the data flow to only the 2 boxes that require it then it may be better right? I understand how bundles work, but I don't understand why it is important to bundle signals together other than keeping track. |
Josh Millward wrote on Fri, 03 August 2007 00:45 |
Oh yeah, one last thing, you aren't doing something silly like using one of the "low latency" modes, right??? |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Fri, 03 August 2007 08:08 |
WELL! that statement just begs more explanation.. (you knew that was coming didn't you?) |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Fri, 03 August 2007 08:08 |
certain people at an undisclosed company told me that the higher latency modes were only really for compatibility with other equipment and that unless there's a reason not to, that I should set it to the lowest (1-1/3ms) in my application the extra 4ms to up it to higher latency likely won't negatively affect anything but I'm curious now.. Jason |
Quote: |
This has to do with how many channels of audio you can move. The standard latency is 5.33 milliseconds (mS). Using this latency you can move 32x32 channels on Cobranet. If you switch to the next lowest latency which is half that, you also halve the number of channels you can move to 16x16. You can again halve the latency, but it will again halve the channel count down to 8x8. |
Josh Millward wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 01:55 |
I haven't tried setting to lower latency settings in CobraCAD either, but I figured it would be in there somewhere. If it isn't, have a look at the network utilization. If you are under 50% utilization, I would guess you would be okay with the middle latency and if it is under 25% utiliziation, you should probably be okay with the lowest latency. |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 18:11 |
... or does a bundle take up the same amount of network traffic even if it's not full? Jason |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 18:11 |
... or does a bundle take up the same amount of network traffic even if it's not full?Jason |
Greg Bellotte wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 11:47 |
as for maximum bundles to transmit, i have successfully set up a system with nine broadcast (multicast) bundles for a total of 72 channels of audio (actually we had two parallel systems for 144!). everything was moving in one direction, and we had three sets of units to receive in three different locations. this seems to be about the limit for multicast, as the bandwidth of our 100mbit switch was pretty much at its limit. gigabit switches DO NOT help, as the 100 mbit ports on the cobranet units will still get clogged with multicast traffic. |
Greg Bellotte wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 16:47 | ||
for the most part, a bundle takes the same bandwidth regardless of its content. a bundle with one channel of audio still contains seven channels of silence, repesented by a boatload of digital zeroes. as for maximum bundles to transmit, i have successfully set up a system with nine broadcast (multicast) bundles for a total of 72 channels of audio (actually we had two parallel systems for 144!). everything was moving in one direction, and we had three sets of units to receive in three different locations. this seems to be about the limit for multicast, as the bandwidth of our 100mbit switch was pretty much at its limit. gigabit switches DO NOT help, as the 100 mbit ports on the cobranet units will still get clogged with multicast traffic. as for cat5 length, 100m *IS* the number, and existed long before cobranet. longer runs require a repeater, switch, or media converter/fiber extension. the above system was originally on <100m cat5 and worked very reliably. we set up this same system again, with 100mbit fiber links between the sending and receiving units about 3000ft apart. we found we lost enough bandwidth through the media converters to limit us to eight broadcast bundles. still a lot of signals. as noted before, you should really limit the use of multicast bundles when possible. the switch is required to pass these packets to all rx units, even if they wont be needing them. a unicast bundle will only be passed to the unit that needs it, so you can have many more bundles than 9 if you plan it out right. |
Jason Lavoie wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 17:24 |
I'm confused though because we're still moving the same quantity of data, just encoding and decoding faster right? maybe I'm missing something here.. |
Greg Bellotte wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 11:47 |
we set up this same system again, with 100mbit fiber links between the sending and receiving units about 3000ft apart. we found we lost enough bandwidth through the media converters to limit us to eight broadcast bundles. still a lot of signals. |
Greg Bellotte wrote on Sun, 26 August 2007 14:57 |
my future specs will call for managed switches and gigibit fiber links. we can then split the switches into vlans and use one physical cat5 system for even more channels than we use now. i'm shooting for 256 channels on a single fiber run! |