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 1 
 on: Today at 11:29:44 PM 
Started by Al Craig - Last post by Thomas Le
What lav specifically is it? Usually with lavs you will need to EQ the heck out of the channel/system to get something remotely acceptable. For something cheap and "need it now", a used 31 band GEQ or PEQ rack unit could solve the issue, otherwise as Tim as alluded, you may need to get a better mixer for the job.

 2 
 on: Today at 11:25:49 PM 
Started by Al Craig - Last post by Tim McCulloch
Hi experts!

I have been struggling to get lav systems working for my live sound needs. Primarily doing business conferences for 50-60 people. Here is my gear:

2x QSC CP10 speakers
Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer
Shure BLX wireless systems with handheld and lav transmitters
Shure lav mics
DPA headset
Sony UWP-D Wireless System with Sony lavs (cardioid and omni)

Whenever I use the Shure handheld mics or the DPA headset mic the sound levels are good. Whenever I use the Shure lavs or Sony system with its lavs the sound levels are too low or start to provide feedback. I have tried various settings of gain staging, connecting directly to the QSC speakers bypassing the mixer, and anything else I can think of but the results remain the same.

What am I missing here?
Should this setup work? How are others using Shure BLX lavs for similar work?

Thanks in advance!

What Mac said.  Start with the lav system as the 'setter of expectations' and then match the ear set and stick mics to the lavs.

The gain you need is not electrical.  What the stick mics and ear set mics have in common is (typically) being closer to the mouth than a lav can be positioned without creating other complications.

The inverse-square law is not your friend here.  With an ear set mic about 20mm from the corner of the presenter's mouth, to have equal level at a mid/high chest postion, a lav needs about 24dB more input level, or 24dB more electrical gain.  The latter amplifies room and HVAC noise, clothing noises, all the sounds... by 24 dB.  And it reduces your gain before feedback by 24 dB compared to the ear set.

If you've not already done so, disabuse yourself of Mackie's "unity."  Like " 'normal' is just a setting on the clothes dryer", 'unity' is just a label on the panel.

The high pass and low pass filters on modern compact digital consoles can be very helpful in live situations, along with have full parametric filter sets on each input and output.  You may wish to explore other mixer options with a larger feature set but starting with expectation management will help.

Finally, post-mixer, most systems have too much gain.  A common rig in my old shop was JBL VerTec 4887 in ballrooms, ITech powered.  The Itech input sensitivity were set for 26dB gain and to get useful meters and compressors on the console, I lowered the input trim -6dB on each amplifier channel, too.  For fun we switched the amps to 1.4v sensitivity and OMG was it loud and comparatively noisy.

Carefully done, a 4 member panel discussion on stage with a host/emcee on lav mic, downstage of the PA in the audience was entirely possible with that rig, my tuning, and having really good presenters.  You're using different gear but the basic principles are the same.

Get your CP10's up as high as you can and aim them down.  This does a couple things:  it puts a little more distance between the loudspeakers and the mics and lets the "other side" of the inverse square law work for you with more even coverage of the audience area.

Accept that in some rooms it may be better to patch into the house overhead speaker system.  You'll still need to do your normal stuff and you may want to keep your PA (especially subwoofers) "perceptibly" on (clients who listen/pay with their eyes) but this can work in rooms with low ceilings or where you can't get your PA up as high as it needs to go.

Good luck, and let us know how things work out.

 3 
 on: Today at 10:52:12 PM 
Started by Tim McCulloch - Last post by Tim McCulloch
Unrealistic expectations about the amount of free radio spectrum in such close proximity. Too much reliance on technology and special effects in order to cover for the sheer lack of actual talent or musicality.

At my more charitable I think of most 'concerts' these days as shows in the sense of musical theatre with less plot.

It's not enough to go out to sing and play your ass off, presenting well crafted songs with compelling performances and musicianship, under 120kW of conventionals with 4 house follow spots.  I hope I live long enough to witness the great retro revival... ;)

 4 
 on: Today at 10:51:49 PM 
Started by Mac Kerr - Last post by Mac Kerr
This topic has been moved to LAB Lounge.

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=180847.0

 5 
 on: Today at 10:50:50 PM 
Started by Al Craig - Last post by Mac Kerr
Hi experts!

I have been struggling to get lav systems working for my live sound needs. Primarily doing business conferences for 50-60 people. Here is my gear:

2x QSC CP10 speakers
Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer
Shure BLX wireless systems with handheld and lav transmitters
Shure lav mics
DPA headset
Sony UWP-D Wireless System with Sony lavs (cardioid and omni)

Whenever I use the Shure handheld mics or the DPA headset mic the sound levels are good. Whenever I use the Shure lavs or Sony system with its lavs the sound levels are too low or start to provide feedback. I have tried various settings of gain staging, connecting directly to the QSC speakers bypassing the mixer, and anything else I can think of but the results remain the same.

What am I missing here?
Should this setup work? How are others using Shure BLX lavs for similar work?

Thanks in advance!

Itís impossible to know without being there, but my guess is unrealistic expectations.

Mac

 6 
 on: Today at 10:47:57 PM 
Started by Phil Schrantz - Last post by Mac Kerr
Check and make sure channels are set to Pre Fader that are going to the IEM.

Why would you do this when the mons are on their own console? You do that when mixing mons from FOH.

Mac

 7 
 on: Today at 10:24:27 PM 
Started by Al Craig - Last post by Al Craig
Hi experts!

I have been struggling to get lav systems working for my live sound needs. Primarily doing business conferences for 50-60 people. Here is my gear:

2x QSC CP10 speakers
Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer
Shure BLX wireless systems with handheld and lav transmitters
Shure lav mics
DPA headset
Sony UWP-D Wireless System with Sony lavs (cardioid and omni)

Whenever I use the Shure handheld mics or the DPA headset mic the sound levels are good. Whenever I use the Shure lavs or Sony system with its lavs the sound levels are too low or start to provide feedback. I have tried various settings of gain staging, connecting directly to the QSC speakers bypassing the mixer, and anything else I can think of but the results remain the same.

What am I missing here?
Should this setup work? How are others using Shure BLX lavs for similar work?

Thanks in advance!

 8 
 on: Today at 09:31:09 PM 
Started by Phil Schrantz - Last post by Bill Hubbard
Check and make sure channels are set to Pre Fader that are going to the IEM.

 9 
 on: Today at 09:22:38 PM 
Started by Tim McCulloch - Last post by Justice C. Bigler
I wonder what the hell is going on. To have such persistent problems, whatever they actually are, at this level of production seems so improbable. I hope we learn what happened so that it never happens again Ė to any of us.
Unrealistic expectations about the amount of free radio spectrum in such close proximity. Too much reliance on technology and special effects in order to cover for the sheer lack of actual talent or musicality.

 10 
 on: Today at 08:12:14 PM 
Started by Henry Cohen - Last post by Jordan Wolf
Thatís some high praise from a highly-regarded member of this forum and the event production community!

Great job, Diogo! May your good reputation ever precede you.

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