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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => DJ Forum => Topic started by: Mike Henderson on January 22, 2021, 09:22:12 AM
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Any of you DJ's here ever tried any Bass Enhancers and can give your feedback on them please?
Many years ago I had owned a couple of the dbx 120 Subharmonics units. I can;t remember which of the models [120a, 120x, 120xp or the 120x-ds] i had owned. I am now seeing there is a 510 model too. I have also been told that units like the BBE models help give the bass a nice tone.
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Not to come in and crap up your thread sir. I've messed around with a few in demo rooms and a couple of club installs that had dbx units years ago. In the grand scheme of things, no hauling anything but what ya need and over time evolving the PA's themselves - I don't use them and won't use them.
A good PA (Playback System) stands on it's own merit and that's been my approach. That being stated, I'm a bit more that a single entity DJ show - now the DJ systems are a part of the overall operation. Processing I have used was back in the vinyl days Phase Linear auto correlators which provided ~4db dynamic range expansion. When setup correctly they sounded pretty good for vinyl. Also use compressors for talk-overs or ducking to make clean announcements without completely muting music program.
In dance music the LF energy is there - it takes a system that can pump it out there night after night - in the end it's the cost of amps and subs.
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Not to come in and crap up your thread sir. I've messed around with a few in demo rooms and a couple of club installs that had dbx units years ago. In the grand scheme of things, no hauling anything but what ya need and over time evolving the PA's themselves - I don't use them and won't use them.
A good PA (Playback System) stands on it's own merit and that's been my approach. That being stated, I'm a bit more that a single entity DJ show - now the DJ systems are a part of the overall operation. Processing I have used was back in the vinyl days Phase Linear auto correlators which provided ~4db dynamic range expansion. When setup correctly they sounded pretty good for vinyl. Also use compressors for talk-overs or ducking to make clean announcements without completely muting music program.
In dance music the LF energy is there - it takes a system that can pump it out there night after night - in the end it's the cost of amps and subs.
Yeah when I had used them back then it was with a vinyl system.
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Yeah when I had used them back then it was with a vinyl system.
i have a couple of dbx DriveRack PA2's in the studio and den music systems that are playback systems and messed around with the sub synth in the den a little and ended up defeating it. The den system had 4 x JBL 2245's in a pair if MD7 enclosures, so no lack of bottom end capability. For music during the day it's on MC DirecTV which has limited bandwidth from processing which is why I started playing around in the first place. If I want to rock, just play a CD.
Good question you pose - I'll keep a watch on the thread just for curiosity on what others are doing these days. With all the powered stuff out there with built in processing I would suspect not much usage. However, I've seen setups that were way over the top for signal manipulation and there are probably a few of those out there. :)
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Read the previous post: "On The Turning Away" (from unpowered speakers)
-Dennis
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Good question you pose - I'll keep a watch on the thread just for curiosity on what others are doing these days. With all the powered stuff out there with built in processing I would suspect not much usage. However, I've seen setups that were way over the top for signal manipulation and there are probably a few of those out there. :)
Yeah seems most folks opt to use the included Subharmonics in Powered Speakers or Digital Processors these days instead of Hardware. At any rate though, if memory serves those DBX units were used to lower the bass frequency and not enhance? I think the BBE units might have been used more for enhancing but I never used one of those.
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Yeah seems most folks opt to use the included Subharmonics in Powered Speakers or Digital Processors these days instead of Hardware. At any rate though, if memory serves those DBX units were used to lower the bass frequency and not enhance? I think the BBE units might have been used more for enhancing but I never used one of those.
I used to have a BBE unit in the 90's. The bass enhance was useless. It just muddied things up.
I always thought of those DBX 120's as something to add bass that wasn't there. That was an issue with older recordings but there's a TON of low end on modern trax. If you need more bass in the mix, turn up the subs or the bass instruments. I would think that using one of these FX to add more bass that you can get with a system might damage your speakers.
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I used to have a BBE unit in the 90's. The bass enhance was useless. It just muddied things up.
I always thought of those DBX 120's as something to add bass that wasn't there. That was an issue with older recordings but there's a TON of low end on modern trax. If you need more bass in the mix, turn up the subs or the bass instruments. I would think that using one of these FX to add more bass that you can get with a system might damage your speakers.
I am not seeking to add more bass on my system or get deeper bass, got lots of it. Was just curious about enhancers and what they do. Actually it was speaker cabinet builder who had told me short while back that the BBE and Aural Exciters adds better tonal tonal quality to bass.
Personally I think the old school way to put an Eq separately on the bass is as good as anything but question is, does it really make any difference than from having an Eq between the Mixer and Crossover?
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I am not seeking to add more bass on my system or get deeper bass, got lots of it. Was just curious about enhancers and what they do. Actually it was speaker cabinet builder who had told me short while back that the BBE and Aural Exciters adds better tonal tonal quality to bass.
Personally I think the old school way to put an Eq separately on the bass is as good as anything but question is, does it really make any difference than from having an Eq between the Mixer and Crossover?
You can't get deeper bass from a speaker that can't reproduce deeper bass in the first place.
Your average off shelf decent single 18 is only going down to a useful 40hz give or take a little,
if your bass enhancer box tells it to do 20hz while rocking out things are going to break after a while.
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DBX 120A as an fx insert was fun, but it put stress on the drivers.
If you want to rock it and not kill your subs, look at the Waves MaxxBCL.
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You can't get deeper bass from a speaker that can't reproduce deeper bass in the first place.
Your average off shelf decent single 18 is only going down to a useful 40hz give or take a little,
if your bass enhancer box tells it to do 20hz while rocking out things are going to break after a while.
Or, for modern active speakers, the sub's own driver protection HPF will cut enough of it that there's little point using it anyway.
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Or, for modern active speakers, the sub's own driver protection HPF will cut enough of it that there's little point using it anyway.
Good point.
Regardless how powered every speaker needs a proper HPF in place.
Though with enough crazy stupid EQ ect. the effects of a HPF can be negated to some degree.
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The original dbx "Professional Disco Boom Box" was the 500. This one work similar to an octave divider (proprietary system, I think there was a patent on part of it) with additional processing. The 120 series were digital processors and I'm not sure how dbx achieved their result with those.
I used a 500 (still own it, somewhere in my pile of gear at the shop) as a subgroup insert for bass drum and toms (saved a bunch of badly tuned kick drums and "fake bass guitar" when a bassist's instrument was left at another venue). On a whole mix or applied to an entire pass band? NO. This will end up being far too much for program material that has "contemporary" amounts of <80Hz info already. For vinyl LPs of 1970s and 1980s it's a nearly universal solution, but for mixed origin media it's likely to be unsatisfactory as "global" processing.
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the best bass enhancer was the Power TF9100. it had a cool 2.1 output
They also made the best DJ mixers 30 years or so ago. .Comel from France. Always wondered what happened to them.
still have a spiral bound catalog of their line
i recall selling a TF9100 to Tom Lord Alge for use in studio
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I am not seeking to add more bass on my system or get deeper bass, got lots of it. Was just curious about enhancers and what they do. Actually it was speaker cabinet builder who had told me short while back that the BBE and Aural Exciters adds better tonal tonal quality to bass.
Personally I think the old school way to put an Eq separately on the bass is as good as anything but question is, does it really make any difference than from having an Eq between the Mixer and Crossover?
first off...plus 1 on what Mike Caldwell just posted...those old doublers..were usually going to either exceed a lot of cheap dj rigs capability, or just add mud to the signal...that said, and to your original question... I had enjoyed having an aural exciter in my rack back when my own small club band was playing...made the vocals better, was actually noticable all around..but I'm sure it comes down to what we're ultimately sending signal too...years back (and many mobile djs today still) still just run cheap analog mixers..$120 blue yamaha mixers..so they are coming at their powered mackie or qsc etc with a 3 band eq..."mo bass!!"
then they cry cause their little powered sub just doesn't seem to punch like the big club boys say...but put an eq in front...find the sweet spots where your sub can work..and you'd think you have a new rig! I love showing my daughter and couple other djs and band guys even the simple interface on my ipad against the behringer xair..cause it's easy for them to see.drag their finger to hear the massive change when they move freqs below what a box can do, or take gain so high that they are overdriving the signal, etc..but slide that dot to , say, 70 for a small compact sub..and all of a sudden...bass!!! where it might have been fading at 55 ...when you get closer to 65-70..the rig comes alive..and that's what matters.
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Any of you DJ's here ever tried any Bass Enhancers and can give your feedback on them please?
Many years ago I had owned a couple of the dbx 120 Subharmonics units. I can;t remember which of the models [120a, 120x, 120xp or the 120x-ds] i had owned. I am now seeing there is a 510 model too. I have also been told that units like the BBE models help give the bass a nice tone.
Big reggae systems, Go Go Bands, house and dance music - vinyl, CDs, and now MP3 experience.
Use this scale of 1 to 10 for worst to best
Bass enhancer will make a 1 system sound like a 5 at best.
Bass enhancer will make a 6 system sound like a 5 at best.
Bass enhancer will make a 10 system sound like a 5 at best.
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Building a nightclub sound system around heavy Subharmonic Synthesis is interesting, if done with the right genre of music. Steve Dash did this with his installs at Twilo/Crobar NYC. The sound wasn’t at all accurate to the source, but it left quite the impression on many people who’ve attended, me included. The brand new subharmonic content resulted in a very unique vibe. It’s been 15 years since the clubs closed and I still run into people who will say “There’s nothing like a Phazon Sound system!”
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Building a nightclub sound system around heavy Subharmonic Synthesis is interesting
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Any of you DJ's here ever tried any Bass Enhancers and can give your feedback on them please?
Many years ago I had owned a couple of the dbx 120 Subharmonics units. I can;t remember which of the models [120a, 120x, 120xp or the 120x-ds] i had owned. I am now seeing there is a 510 model too. I have also been told that units like the BBE models help give the bass a nice tone.
Scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best:
If your system is a 1, bass enhancer will improve your bass to a 2
If your system is a 5, the bass enhancer will not enhance it.
If your system is a 7, the bass enhancer will make your system sound like a 5 (or less).
If I have a guest DJ, I go straight from their DJ mixer to the BBE to a channel on the board. The reason is because it gives the DJ that 'nice tone' that kind of sounds like the mixer in the red. Then when the DJ really cranks their mixer, the BBE acts as the best limiter ever and prevents the system from overdriving the console input.
Hope this helps,
tracy
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Building a nightclub sound system around heavy Subharmonic Synthesis is interesting, if done with the right genre of music. Steve Dash did this with his installs at Twilo/Crobar NYC. The sound wasn’t at all accurate to the source, but it left quite the impression on many people who’ve attended, me included. The brand new subharmonic content resulted in a very unique vibe. It’s been 15 years since the clubs closed and I still run into people who will say “There’s nothing like a Phazon Sound system!”
I worked with Dash from 2000 to 2003 and we never used subharmonic synthesizers during that time. That included Twilo, Arc, Shelter, Crobar Miami. RLA style analog dj crossovers, bss, rane, or klark technik processing for typical delay, eq, xover, limiters were used, but no enhancement effects.