Post by: Brad Harris on July 10, 2004, 06:36:30 PM
I was watching the VH1 SNL 25yrs + the music today, and noticed that Dan Acroyd(sp?) uses it for his blues brothers jams with his harmonica. I found it funny he's using the 'devils' mic precurser to his mission from 'gawd'.
I dunno, just babling about crap at the moment.
Post by: Tim McCulloch on July 10, 2004, 11:19:14 PM
I always thought the model number was kinda toungue-in-cheek....
The 666 is really a nice piece of vintage kit if it hasn't been abused. Every time I see one on eBay that appears to be in GC, I get outbid quick...
Analog Tom can probably do well at describing the sound of this mic, since I've never been able to do a direct comparison with some of my other vintage favorites.
Tim Mc
Post by: John Horvath on July 11, 2004, 01:46:15 AM
Post by: analog Tom on July 11, 2004, 11:59:05 AM
The 666 also reflects EV's pattern of quality selecting capsules and building two models on "general" capsules and "selected" capsules. So the 666 is the selected capsule version of the 664. Similar selecting leads the RE-10 / RE-15, and RE-11 / RE-16.
The "real" selected 664 is the 665, with the 666 being the 'best of the best'.
These mics (664/665/666) all use multiple rear entrances in an effort to reduce proximity effect. So, if you look at your 664s, you see the grill, then openings on the sides of the head (the openings changed a bit during production, as an aesthetic, but not acoustic decision). Then on the back end of the "spine" there is a hole, which is the last rear opening.
Unfortunately these mics have foam inside the front grill, inside the side entrances, and inside the spine. This soaks up any available contamination (particulary metal particles - since the magnets are very strong). EV no longer sources clean foam, and has no published (that I know of) protocols for cleaning the diaphragms. This is important because the strong magnets of high quality dynamic mics will attract every tiny chip from mic stand threads, bits on the floor (where too many mics get laid), etc. Even some of the particles in cigarette smoke are magnetic, and are attracted to the diaphragms.
I haven't used a 664 in decades, except as film props. Back in their day, they were considered a very good quality, and very durable PA mic. Many small market stations used them for announce mics. Because of their distributed openings, they don't have the proximity effect of the bidirectional ribbons, like 77DX or BX-44 which were still popular in the '50s. This wasn't seen as an announce problem, as shown by the wide acceptance of the later RE-20, which is more of a "continuously variable D" design.
The 666s were the standard 'go to' workhorses for news announce, live performance (look at the cover on the Jefferson Airplane's FIRST album, the one with Toley Anderson as the singer, before Grace Slick), and even as inexpensive boom mics (back in the mid '60s, a 666 was only about $160 list). The 666R stands for "rising response". Actually, it was a slow low end roll off, rather than a rising high end.
For a late '50s - early '60s design, the mics are pretty flat. As dynamics, they have the frequency response and transient response limits one would expect. If you have them, try them out. Particularly for some type of 'event' or theme gigs, they offer interesting visual appeal, with no necessary loss of PA quality.
The mics were, and are considered great drum mics.
I only have five of these. One is a factory prototype, shipped to Hollywood for evaluation. It has a rougher case design, before EV settled on the final version of the spine.
The same "variable D" design was used by AKG in its "2 way" mics, of which the D-202e is the best known. The AKG mics actually use two mic elements (the EVs did not), but the multiple rear entries were used to reduce proximity effect.
One constant problem with both the 666 and the 664 is their connectors. The 664 has an Amphenol MC-4 connector. Try to find those in your local Radio Shack! The 666 uses the Cannon UA-3 connector. Try to find those anywhere! BUT, the 665, which uses the same case and stand mount as the 664, uses a standard XLR-3. So it may be possible to adapt the 664 (I've never tried this, so no guarantees). No such luck with the 666.
If you get a 666, make sure that it comes with a UA-3 cable connector. The best thing is to make up pigtails (about 6' long) which have the UA on one end and an XLR on the other. Make them about 6' long so the change to XLR comes at the bottom of the stand, or otherwise out of camera view.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: Dan Timon on July 12, 2004, 08:40:10 AM
I am copying/pasting this into a word doc, and filing it away in a Microphone folder.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Regards,
Dan Timon
Post by: analog Tom on July 12, 2004, 10:50:55 AM
You're welcome. My little collection is around 300 now, but with many multiples. Mostly studio types, but some home hi fi mics as well.
I try also to collect old literature, so sometimes I have information when people are looking for it. Don't hesitate to ask about specific things. Just don't expect any rapid responses. I'm in Santa Monica, and the collection resides in Burbank - so I really only get to it on weekends, unless I'm going to pull something for a project or prop use.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: Dan Timon on July 12, 2004, 11:03:02 AM
Happy collecting!
Regards,
Dan
Post by: John Horvath on July 13, 2004, 03:12:21 AM
Man, I thought I was doing good. Well someday I might be there, but for now, it's whatever mics I find that look cool on ebay. My price limit is $60 per mic, so unfortunately I don't get too many really cool mics, just the slightly cool.
Post by: Dan Timon on July 13, 2004, 07:38:21 AM
| Klark wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 03:12 |
Holy cow Tom, 300 mics!!?? And Dan, 100 mics??!! Man, I thought I was doing good. Well someday I might be there, but for now, it's whatever mics I find that look cool on ebay. My price limit is $60 per mic, so unfortunately I don't get too many really cool mics, just the slightly cool. |
You may be surprised, as your collection grows, that your definition of "cool" changes as you see more examples of your mics for sale. I have maybe 50 mics that no longer do much for me, and they are not worth much. My goal for a long time was to get to the point where my wife would stop noticing the "new mic" and start lumping them into a collection of "all those mics" but that has not happened yet. I figured that when she lumped them all together, I could then buy more mics than now, with less acountability.
But on a positive note, she now keeps her eyes open for mic paraphanalia for me. 
It is especially rewarding to me when I can actually use one for an event. A D12 for example is a great kick mic for a band that covers 70's rock songs, and the band might feel honored that you would let them use it for a concert.
Good luck with your collection.
Regards,
Dan Timon
Post by: analog Tom on July 13, 2004, 11:53:39 AM
There's more joy in things like a matched sequentially numbered pair of KM-76s (did you know Neumann made multipattern small mics? Did you know they made such mics for "T" power instead of phantom?). And it's nice to have different versions of such things as the Western Electric / Altec 639 "birdcage". Mostly they were Altec labeled. But finding a W.E. labeled one is always a joy.
Then there are the odd ball jobs, like AKG mics using the proprietary 3-blade connectors that AKG tried to promote in the 1950s. Not particularly useable for anything these days, but still built with AKG quality and design sense.
You can visit any antique shop and find old tools from the 19th century, sometimes not being able to figure out what the were for. But think about the extremely rapid pace of technology evolution in the 20th century. We change gear so fast, and throw away what's no longer "good enough", so we risk losing the historic tools which brought us to where we are.
One purpose of my collection is to preserve the studio electronics of the 2nd half of the 20th century, particularly things from the period of transition from tubes to solid state. It's fascinating to study what designers were doing in the '60s.
You can see technology evolving, and also economics, as new players moved into the studio electronics field and forced existing powerhouses to face unprecedented competition. It interesting to reflect on once great and powerful names like Altec, Ampex, Collins Radio, Gates Radio, RCA, Raytheon, and others who have faded away, mostly because they were unwilling to adjust to new market realities and rethink their traditional ways of doing things.
There are lessons here for all of us as we try to run our own businesses.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: John Horvath on July 13, 2004, 01:17:18 PM
| analog Tom wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 10:53 |
One purpose of my collection is to preserve the studio electronics of the 2nd half of the 20th century.. |
Nah, seriously though, I respect what you're doing and I think it's awesome. Are you going to setup a museum someday? With your knowledge, and your collection, it sure sounds like you could. Or maybe a website?
BTW, I hope you have that collection insured. I had 18 of my mics stolen once. After thinking about the time and passion that went into aquiring them all, loosing them was very hard to swallow.
Post by: analog Tom on July 14, 2004, 02:18:08 PM
I keep planning to develop a website museum. So far most of the mics have been photographed and cataloged, as has some of the collection of test equipment. But the numerous radio and recording consoles, speakers, turntables, processors, the almost complete line of Ampex tape machines, etc., etc. are still in the process. My hope is that the web museum will also have an online documentation section, so people can look at the paperwork associated with various pieces of gear.
"BTW, I hope you have that collection insured. I had 18 of my mics stolen once."
Insurance is always important, but it really only provides money, not replacement, of important items. I also rely on a 'friendly-to-some-not-friendly-to-others" trained German Shepard. The Shepard doesn't provide replacements, but it does discourage intentional 'losses'.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: Craig Leerman on July 14, 2004, 08:30:40 PM
I started to collect when I was renting a warehouse from Maryland Sound. My neighbor was a vidio playback guy (He hooks up to the film cameras on location and records the takes on video. Then the director can review the scene and decided which takes to actually print to film. Cheaper than printing every take to film for later review) and had a side business. He also rented out vintage and antique TV sets to the video and movie industry. Some of the sets actually worked, while many others had no screens or CRT tubes. In use, a modern video monitor was placed behind the antique TV's glass and made to look like an operating TV.
We got to talking one day and I discovered that the movies always needed strange props like old microphones, TVs, Radios, Cameras, etc. I got hooked and started to collect old tube table radios, old home style picture cameras (like Brownies and Poloroids) and of course, old microphones.
Over the years I only rented one radio for a shoot (used in a commercial) but I started to rent a bunch of mics for comercials and films. I never really got into the cameras, and ended up selling most of my camera collection to a guy in town who was an avid collector. I liked the radios, but I was running out of places to store them (I had about 100 radios at that point) and I also sold many of the older wooden ones to a collector. I kept a few of the art deco and bakelight models because they are so neat looking (I also kept a few that are worth serious money, and will sell them someday when I need to pay the monthly rent at the old soundman's nursing home)
But, being an audio nut, I kept collecting mics. At first, I would buy any mics that looked neat and were in good cosmetic condition, working or not. Then I started to specialize in mics that were mainly used for live PA and had a built in stand socket. (think the EV 664 or Shure 555) Now I'm back to collecting any type of mic that looks neat or different. I collect all brands of mic EXCEPT RCA! I find that they are too exspensive, and other collectors will pay outrageous prices for even beat up models.
I get a lot of my mics on eBay, but I also find a lot of them at flea markets, pawn shops, antique stores, and Ham fests. A Ham fest is an amatuer radio flea market. Great place to pick up old parts, and odds and ends!
Lately I have been going after boom mics (mics that are used in tv and movie production and used on large mic booms suspended over the talent) Here is a recent buy from eBay. Its the EV 642 Cardiline Mic. Its the second of this type that have now, but this one came with the warranty registration cards and booklet (booklet not shown in pic) The two holes on the body of the mic are to adjust impedances (50, 150, 250 ohms) and to adjust frequency response (flat, curve 1, curve 2) In use it would be mounted in a shockmount and attached to a boom stand.
Post by: analog Tom on July 15, 2004, 12:02:06 PM
That's a great picture of the 642! Thanks for putting it up. Congrats on getting the warranty card & booklet - that stuff disappears so quickly in most real life situations.
Would it be possible to post a picture of the back end of the mic, so folks could see the UA-3 connector EV used on this and the 666 mic?
For the general readers, this mic represents an evolution of the "variable D" design which we see in the 664 and 666 mics. I mentioned that the 664s have three acoustic openings: 1) the front grill; 2) the side holes; 3) the hole at the end of the spine.
The 642 represents a "continuously variable D" design (or "interference tube), in which a long tube is put in front of the mic capsule, and has openings all along the sides of the tube. These openings create acoustic interferences in the tube for sound arriving from the side, but not for sound coming straight in the front. The actual mic capsule is located in the fat part of the mic, just to the right of the silver band in Craig's picture.
The interference tube characteristics are frequency dependent (as well as dependent on the length and diameter of the tube). So it is common to see specs for such mics refer to them as "hypercardiod/cardioid" or similar words. They get more directional as frequency rises.
The interference tube has long been the standard design for shotgun mics, both dynamic and condenser (the 642 is a dynamic mic).
Craig,
If you're collecting studio shotguns now, try to get an AKG D-900e. This was an excellent interference tube shotgun, but was a dynamic, just as the MKH-4xx and 8xx were taking over the shotgun world. There aren't that many around, but they are often low use mics, since they got pushed aside by the Sennheisers.
Also look at the EV-667/668 and other dynamics designed to go after market held by the RCA BK-5 (all 'short' boom mics for in studio use).
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: Craig Leerman on July 15, 2004, 08:30:06 PM
Post by: analog Tom on July 16, 2004, 11:16:23 AM
The shot also gives a good look at the rear entrance grill, just where the case and connector block meet. So thanks again for useful, educational pictures.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: Andy Peters on July 16, 2004, 03:43:30 PM
-a
Post by: Craig Leerman on July 16, 2004, 09:49:40 PM
I need a easy program that will allow me to resize pictures. My camera seems to make really large pictures.
Anybody know of some shareware or other free picture resizing software?
Craig
Post by: John Horvath on July 16, 2004, 10:05:14 PM
| Craig Leerman wrote on Fri, 16 July 2004 20:49 |
Anybody know of some shareware or other free picture resizig software? |
Photo resizer 1.0
It's pretty cheesy, but it's simple and gets the job done.
Post by: Scott Raymond on July 17, 2004, 01:45:44 AM
Craig,
I'm betting you've got Paint if you're using a PC. (Accesories folder in Win98, can't recall about XP on the other machine) It's capable of loading and saving jpg's. Find "Stretch and Skew" and use Stretch to resize the image and save it to a new file. That's what I used for my avatar.
Scott
Post by: analog Tom on July 17, 2004, 05:17:20 PM
The first picture is a bitmapped squeezed image of two EV model 666 mics, the type that started this thread. The second is of an EV model 642, wearing an elastic mount for boom use. These were created with the PC "paint" program, as suggested by ScottR, however my old Win98 paint program won't save to .jpg, only .bmp.
In the picture, note that the left 666 is an older model, and it has a shorter, rounded grill than the one on the right. As far as I know, almost all production 666s had the grill type shown on the right mic.
Also notice the stand clips. Both of these are EV model 300. If you got a 666 back in the '60s, you got the left hand metal clip with plastic insert. If you got a later 666, you got the right hand plastic clip.
In this picture you can see all four of the sound entrances (yah, I know my earlier post said three entrances). The front grill is the main entrance. The large holes on each side of the head were the first rear entrances. The little "button" on top, just where the "spine" joins the head is the third entrance. And then at the end of the spine there is a fourth, small hole, entrance.
Between the mics is the female UA-3 cable end which mates with the UA-3M mounted in the rear of the mic.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: analog Tom on July 17, 2004, 05:46:32 PM
This attachment is of the EV 642. When Criag posted his picture, it was on a metal box. That was EV's standard case for the 642. The 'anvil' type case in this image is a common alternative made by studio guys to carry around the 642, with the boom suspension attacked.
The mic really needs an elastic boom suspensio. The suspension works like this: a) A rubber 'donut' fits around the front of the mic case, and a second one fits around the rear; It is important to position the rear one so that it doesn't block the rear sound entrance grills; c) Rubber bands (round, thick bands)reach from the rubber donuts up to the suspension ring. The suspension ring is mounted in a yoke assembly, which then bolts to the end of a standard Century or Mole boom.
This mic shows a pigtail from the rear connector on the mic up to the yoke. There is normally a cable threaded through the boom arm with will mate with the pigtail. This pigtail is heavy regular mic cable. Normally, it would be made of very light, flexible cable to avoid transmitting mechanical noise back to the mic.
Someone asked about the size of the mic. If yo look at the picture, you can see, lying just in front of the interference tube, a regular Bic disposable pen. I estimate the total length of the mic at 15-18 inches.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: Brad Harris on July 17, 2004, 09:55:18 PM
I'm more and more intregued and interested in how these sound (expecially with thier multiple sound entrances), next week I'll have a little time to play around with them. I also have a few other EV mics, but I can't remember off hand what they are.
Post by: Scott Raymond on July 17, 2004, 11:42:27 PM
| Quote: |
The first picture is a bitmapped squeezed image of two EV model 666 mics, the type that started this thread. The second is of an EV model 642, wearing an elastic mount for boom use. These were created with the PC "paint" program, as suggested by ScottR, however my old Win98 paint program won't save to .jpg, only .bmp. Cordially, Tom |
Tom,
If you would like my paint.exe file I'll sure email in to you. It's 336 KB in size. I suppose it's just a bit newer version. I don't know about the legalities of it but I don't believe they're supporting 98 anymore so it probably doesn't matter much.
Scott
Post by: Craig Leerman on July 17, 2004, 11:45:26 PM
Thanks for the answers on how to resize a pic. I resized this pic and am going to test one now!
In keeping with the EV theme of this thread, here is another cool EV mic. This one is the EV 644 "SOUND SPOT" dynamic shotgun mic. The mic is approximately 16" long overall, and about 2 1/4" wide at the rear. Its about 5 1/2" tall measured from the top of the mic to the bottom of the mic connector threads.
I have a few of these. They actually sound pretty good, and of course are very directional!
Because we have been talking about rear porting for direction mic diaphragms, I will also post a pic in the next post showing the rear port for this mic.
Thanks for posting the great pic of the shock mount, Tom! Also, a great road case for the mic and shockmount. I don't know how the shock mount was packaged from the factory. I bought my shockmount used without any box or other documentation. As shown in my pic, the Cardiline mic came in a steel box with U shaped supports lined with felt to cradle the mic when its in the case. On the label in the steel box, it shows how to mount the mic into the shockmount and shows a few drawings.
Does anybody know if there is a forum for vintage mic collectors? I would love to learn more about older mics and see other peoples collections.
Craig
Post by: Craig Leerman on July 17, 2004, 11:51:49 PM
Now I need program that can remove my finger in front of the camera lens!
Here is the rear port of the EV "Sound Spot".
Post by: analog Tom on July 18, 2004, 02:13:18 AM
AudioLaw@ aol dot com.
I don't understand what I'm doing wrong with the posting. It says "upload" file, but when I do that, it shows up only as a link, not as a displayed picture.
I'm sure it's something simple that I'm missing - that's why I'm still ANALOG Tom.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: analog Tom on July 18, 2004, 02:18:48 AM
Post some model #s or pictures. People here can probably sort you out.
If you find one that looks like the 644 that Craig posted, but it's olive drab, and has an XLR out instead of an MC-4, that would be a 645. Just as the PA model 664 had a broadcast version called the 665, which was drab (so as not to reflect TV lights), the PA model 644 had a TV cousin, model 645.
Also, more rarely, there were gold finished 664 and 644 mics, to appeal to designers who wanted that flavor rather than the standard silver (chrome).
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: analog Tom on July 18, 2004, 02:26:20 AM
There were actually a couple of different EV shockmount designs for the 642, and there were some aftermarket designs as well (at least in the Hollywood community). I'd have to do some searching through old storage stuff to find them, It's sort of like the RCA BK-5A/B and KU-3A. It seems like every grip house at one time tried to come up with a better suspension.
It's interesting to compare these elastic string suspensions with the flexible wire loop suspension that EV offers for the DL-42, which was the replacement for the 642. While taking those pictures this morning, I looked (briefly) for the DL-42s, and couldn't find any of them. Time to get better organized. This shows how little demand there is for them, even as props.
Cordially,
Tom
Post by: Dave Dermont on July 18, 2004, 04:50:17 AM
| analog Tom wrote on Sun, 18 July 2004 01:13 |
I don't understand what I'm doing wrong with the posting. It says "upload" file, but when I do that, it shows up only as a link, not as a displayed picture. I'm sure it's something simple that I'm missing - that's why I'm still ANALOG Tom. Cordially, Tom |
Tom, To display a pic in a post, it has to be somewhere on the Web. To find the URL of a picture, right click it and then click on "properties". you can then highlight and copy the URL.
To stick it in a post, click this button:
It's up in "Formatting Tools". Paste the URL into the little window that opens when you press I hope this helps. Doing it is a lot easier than the reading the instructions on how to do it. Honest.
If the pic is stored on your computer, and not somewhere on the Web, you have to do what you were doing.
Post by: Craig Leerman on July 18, 2004, 08:28:52 AM
| Quote: |
Tom, To display a pic in a post, it has to be somewhere on the Web. |
NOPE! You can upload 1 picture per post to the Prosoundweb Servers! Go to the "File Attachment" section right below your text box and click on browse. Then pick a file on your computer and then click the "UPLOAD FILE"
Give the system time to upload your file (On my DSL, a jpg usually only takes a few seconds). Once the file is uploaded, the name of the file, the size of the file and an "ACTION" menu will appear in the FILE UPLOAD area. You can then click on the "INSERT IMAGE INTO TEXT BODY" link to insert the jpg into the text. I believe the system will only handle JPEGS, NOT BitMaps.
To show you how well this works, I will now magically make a picture of the connector on an EV 644 appear!
Post by: Dave Dermont on July 18, 2004, 01:43:47 PM
| Craig Leerman wrote on Sun, 18 July 2004 07:28 | ||
NOPE! You can upload 1 picture per post to the Prosoundweb Servers! |
Aha! I guess I missed a meeting.
It's also possible I am living in the past, and was thinking of some older forum software.
Thanks for clarifying