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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Kenny Deal on November 22, 2012, 07:21:35 PM
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Hey Guys, Just wanted to say thanks for the help I have gotten here in the past,. I did a job last night that turned into a complete disaster. The drummer was an asshole and After the 1st set I offered them their money back so I could just pack up and go. It started out on a small stage, 5 piece band. Bass drums two gtrs Girl lead vox as well as drum vox and one gtr vox. I had no problem with the guys but the girl kept complaining she could not hear herself. I pushed the monitors to the point where I could not control the feedback. The stage volume was beyond ridiculous. The drummer was so friggin loud that the singer was covering her ear by the third set. How the hell can I compete with that ? And then they are yelling at me telling me it's my fault and I don't know what I am doing. First off when we did the sound check she was using a Senhieser wireless and I told them the gain was way too high. it was actually distorting her vox. they dropped it some but then the show began they all played way louder than sound check and when I tried to bring her up it just fed back. I even went up and one point and tested the mic and I could hear myself . She had a very thin voice. They wanted 4 monitor mixes from a portable sound system.The two gtr players were fighting over who should be louder in the monitor mix for them so I gave a 4th mix just for the singer/gtr player. I forgot my drum claws which made me look like an ass. Luckily I had 4 of those cheap clothes pin ones to get by with . That was a sign of a night to come. Then I tried to swap her mic out halfway through the 1st set with a 58 but thy were bitching about what she sounded like in the monitors. What was I supposed to do ? I had eq'ed her mix for the Sennhieser and now I could not re eq it while they were playing. especially with that stage volume. It was so loud It way overpowered the PA.The drummer had just gotten the drumset and it was giving me a mid-range feedback I could not seem to get rid of. I actually switched Mics from the 112 to a cheap CAD I had and it sounded better. I have never dealt with a band that played so loud. The drummer was calling me obscenities and told me I'd never work again and he would black ball me. well I felt completely incompetent after that and all I wanted to do was just go home. I knew then I was done. all this for 175$ ?? ON thanksgiving eve no less ? I sat in 2 hrs traffic to get there and they gave me a check besides.
Nope, I'm finished. lot of it had to do with them but I also cracked under pressure and I never want that feeling again. I have done sound in that room a few times with my own band and had NO problems but I obviously don't have what it takes under tough conditions. You should have seen all the crap they wanted in the monitors. What was I thinking when I took this job ??
It's just not worth it.
Anyway thought I'd share that disaster.
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Also right on thier stage plot it had to put an extra Sm58 for her as backup. When I asked them why they told me her mic has caused feedback city as they called it. It was not setup properly and the moron drummer had no idea what he was doing with it.
She did say it was better in the 2nd and 3rd sets once I re configured the monitors and re eq'ed them but i was so stressed out by then I just didn't care anymore. I still had to ride her gain to the point of feedback to try and compete with the stage volume. Honestly I have dealt with loud bands before but never anything like this. everythig was wayy too loud.
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Also right on thier stage plot it had to put an extra Sm58 for her as backup. When I asked them why they told me her mic has caused feedback city as they called it. It was not setup properly and the moron drummer had no idea what he was doing with it.
She did say it was better in the 2nd and 3rd sets once I re configured the monitors and re eq'ed them but i was so stressed out by then I just didn't care anymore. I still had to ride her gain to the point of feedback to try and compete with the stage volume. Honestly I have dealt with loud bands before but never anything like this. everythig was wayy too loud.
This, too, shall pass........
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Eat turkey, wait 1 week, cross them off of your list, and get back to work. Everyone has one of those nights, and you just had yours. Like Dick said, this too shall pass.
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Thanks. I realize it wasn't all my fault but I just cracked and could not handle it.That is the difference between a pro and an amateur The only reason I did sound was as a filler when my band wasn't gigging but since my band broke up I have no desire to do this anymore. A job like that should pay min 250$.
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Funny thing is you would think the girl would be the bitch right ? She was very nice and apologetic for the drummers behavior. I suggested to her for her own benefit to invest in an IEM system so she can save her voice and hearing playing with that band.
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Thanks. I realize it wasn't all my fault but I just cracked and could not handle it.That is the difference between a pro and an amateur The only reason I did sound was as a filler when my band wasn't gigging but since my band broke up I have no desire to do this anymore. A job like that should pay min 250$.
Sorry Kenny! I'm with Dick & Bob, but I think one can't get paid enough for a gig like that... Yikes! Was it just a pick-up thing, or did you know about the band beforehand?
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I did have another show booked with them which I cancelled at the end of the night. If I do anything I may just keep doing small jobs with my 8 channel and powered FOH. I make more money with that and it's way easier to move and setup. I am getting old and lugging all this gear around is taking it's toll.
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Sorry Kenny! I'm with Dick & Bob, but I think one can't get paid enough for a gig like that... Yikes! Was it just a pick-up thing, or did you know about the band beforehand?
I met them at another Job I did over the summer.
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I did have another show booked with them which I cancelled at the end of the night...
Good idea!
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The other thing is liability. The place was packed last night and all I kept thinking is I should have strapped the speakers down better. What if one falls on somebody. I am an individual not a corp. I carry liability insurance but you never know how good it is until you make a claim and find out the incident needed to happen at 12:01:39 on a full moon and over 32 deg f...:)
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A job like that should pay min 250$.
There is no job out there that I would do for $250. My minimum price is more than double that.
Regardless of the pricing, you need to keep practicing to get better. Once you have confidence then these bad gigs will happen a lot less often and with experience you'll be able to recognize the bad ones before you take the gig, saving you the frustration of actually taking them.
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You need to charge more. Even in my first year doing this I wouldn't do a bar gig for less than $450 and that was when I had NO IDEA what I was doing. Seriously, keeping your cool is 90% of this business.
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There is no job out there that I would do for $250. My minimum price is more than double that.
Regardless of the pricing, you need to keep practicing to get better. Once you have confidence then these bad gigs will happen a lot less often and with experience you'll be able to recognize the bad ones before you take the gig, saving you the frustration of actually taking them.
That is pretty much the problem around here. these bar bands don't make that much and 175 seems to be the going rate around here. That is why I make more money using a small powered mixer and the stuff fits in my car vs having to pay for a Van and expenses.
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don't give up so easy. Stick with it. Unless someone is hurt or dead because of your actions don't let one lousy band ruin your ride.
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That is pretty much the problem around here. these bar bands don't make that much and 175 seems to be the going rate around here. That is why I make more money using a small powered mixer and the stuff fits in my car vs having to pay for a Van and expenses.
$250 is what one should receive for bringing the following:
Board tape
Sharpie
Headphones
That weeds out the s*** stuff.
Well, most of it...........
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$250 is what one should receive for bringing the following:
Board tape
Sharpie
Headphones
That weeds out the s*** stuff.
Well, most of it...........
Oh man...you are making me cry laughing. You are so right...
But alot of guys do it as cheap as i did. For me wasnt a big deal because That was still more than I made doing it for my own band and playing besides but of course I never played in the band for the money, I did it for the love of doing it.
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$250 is what one should receive for bringing the following:
Board tape
Sharpie
Headphones
That weeds out the s*** stuff.
Well, most of it...........
Sign me up! I bring that plus mics and dis (radial, shure, audix, sennheiser) for a lot less. I honestly haven't met anyone or myself got a gig that was walk in for 250.
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I think if I ever considered doing this again I wuld want to work side by side sort of apprentice with a pro. That is the way to learn. I have had some good gigs too though. I did an oldies band a few weeks ago. what a difference. went very smooth. The band showed up late and I had to fly with no sound check and still didnt have any of the problems of last night.
These guys were so easy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSw7ZAawusQ&list=UUdb5JicXJ6rEUlfnbrRy3Iw&index=4&feature=plcp
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3MGgZUjXLY
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From my little bit of experience it seems you need to get the monitors right before the set begins. If they are not right it is very difficult to re eq them while the band is playing. Is this correct ? I went out several times and tipped the monitor over so I could hear it and could not hear over the stage volume of the band. I mean the fact that the girl was covering her ear because of the drummer's volume means something no ?
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That is pretty much the problem around here. these bar bands don't make that much and 175 seems to be the going rate around here. That is why I make more money using a small powered mixer and the stuff fits in my car vs having to pay for a Van and expenses.
First, as others have said-I don't walk out the door for that kind of money.
Second, if I do(and it does happen for the occasional charity function that I like to contribute something), I'd never show up with a lunch box mixer and the typical gear associated at that level-I'd only be hurting my bottom line ability to do a good job.
You should have shown up with something better.
I won't hesitate to fiddle with eq and gain if that's what's needed-there are far too many musicians who tip toe through sound check, only come out roarin' for the first set. Next time you mix them, you'll know.
Also, if the drummer is that damn loud, I'm at least going to try and diplomatically explain this problem, with the band present. If they don't get it, be nice, cash the check, and make notes for next time....or be conveniently "booked" with another gig when they call to hire you.
Best regards,
John
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I used a 16:2 Mixwiz. I realize that is the low end of stuff but for small bands like my own it has served me pretty good. I had her mon mix on it's own send/eq. I use rane and Ashley Eq's. I have Crown PB3 for the monitor amps. The FOH mix was fine. the issues were Monitors.
Funny thing is I gave her a Yamaha 15 wedge. I think the 12 inch ones sound better myself. maybe I should have done that. I ended up swapping them around second set and gave her 1 mix with 2 JBL Powered monitors Side by Side. She was also a good 3-4 ft back from the monitor. The whole stage layout was wrong IMHO.
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From my little bit of experience it seems you need to get the monitors right before the set begins. If they are not right it is very difficult to re eq them while the band is playing. Is this correct ? I went out several times and tipped the monitor over so I could hear it and could not hear over the stage volume of the band. I mean the fact that the girl was covering her ear because of the drummer's volume means something no ?
Hi Kenny-
I feel for you, brother. Your experience is one of the reasons I haven't done a bar gig since 1999... well, okay, just ONE and that was a favor to the band. My guys were nice, but still had the wireless vocal mic feedback issues, stupid loud stage volumes from one player, then another (they seemed to alternate), and a severely compromised performance space. I did the best I could, the band was sufficiently happy they asked me back (I was a substitute) and I didn't leave with any new battle scars - but I don't wish to do it again because I don't feel I delivered the kind of results I'm capable of and that I was shortchanging my client.
The real issue with getting anywhere near a decent monitor check is if you have the time and the band plays like they will at show time. Fat chance. SOMEBODY sandbags the sound check, always.
Another aspect is that "loudest sound at the mic, wins" and that means all the drums and guitars are getting into the vocal mic. More vocals for Little Missy? Sure thing, just tell me how much drums you'd like with it.
This band clearly sucks and scapegoats the poor soundguy/gal. Avoid them and anyone else that has a reputation for out of control stage levels and unprofessional behavior. Life is too short to suffer fools politely.
Is there more you could have done? Probably, but that's not the point. These assholes are toxic and want to blame everyone but themselves.
Kick back, watch some TV, build a ship in a bottle, take your significant other on a "date". Time will heal this wound.
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Thanks Tim.
BTW Happy Thanksgiving to everyone !!
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Just thought of something funny. the gig I cancelled on them in a few weeks was at very small place in hartford. I feel really sorry for the poor guy that takes that job. In fact I want to go sneek in incognito just to see how the soundguy handles them. Maybe I could learn something or maybe I'll just see that it wasn't me as much as I think.
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Don't give up Kenny. It seems like you really care about doing a good job. By the sounds of it that band did not deserve your support. Every so often I will get stuck with a gig like this. It is usually an irritating and uncomfortable situation. You can look at it as a character building experience.
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It definitely taught me to look at the size of the room/stage vs demands of the bands stage plot. that reminds me. I specifically asked for the stage plot the day before and went by what they gave me then the drummer tells me it's wrong after I had everything setup.
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Just my 2 cents.
Kenny judging form your first post you don't seem to be confident in yourself and that would make me assume that your not confident in yourself in person and other people see that. Musicians are animals man you need t take charge and tell them what needs to happen. They hire you to do a job and trust your judgement right out of the gate. If you don't carry yourself with that confidence they are expecting they will chew you up and spit you out.
Like someone else already said we all have had those nights. If you get into that situation again. Stop take a min go out side collect your thoughts and take charge. Always remember the band wants you to take charge. They may not know it but that is why they hired you in the first place.
I have had gigs with people like the drummer described. You need to let those people know that you are making a decision and it is the best for the band and all parties involved. If they don't like your microphone change then you need to stop them and regain that wireless they insist on using or whatever the situation calls for.
WE DONT CALL IT COMBAT AUDIO FOR NOTHING!!!
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Just my 2 cents.
Kenny judging form your first post you don't seem to be confident in yourself and that would make me assume that your not confident in yourself in person and other people see that. Musicians are animals man you need t take charge and tell them what needs to happen. They hire you to do a job and trust your judgement right out of the gate. If you don't carry yourself with that confidence they are expecting they will chew you up and spit you out.
Like someone else already said we all have had those nights. If you get into that situation again. Stop take a min go out side collect your thoughts and take charge. Always remember the band wants you to take charge. They may not know it but that is why they hired you in the first place.
I have had gigs with people like the drummer described. You need to let those people know that you are making a decision and it is the best for the band and all parties involved. If they don't like your microphone change then you need to stop them and regain that wireless they insist on using or whatever the situation calls for.
WE DONT CALL IT COMBAT AUDIO FOR NOTHING!!!
I've got one band that I've had to put up with once a year for 6 years now. Excellent lead guitar player, but TFL.....and the drummer can match him. This year I just set up 3 vocal mics instead of miking the amps (2 gtrs, keys, bass and blues harp) and the kit. I explained to them that I got everything with just the vocal mics. I wonder if they really got the message.
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I've got one band that I've had to put up with once a year for 6 years now. Excellent lead guitar player, but TFL.....and the drummer can match him. This year I just set up 3 vocal mics instead of miking the amps (2 gtrs, keys, bass and blues harp) and the kit. I explained to them that I got everything with just the vocal mics. I wonder if they really got the message.
LOL For people like that I just mic the guitar rig and run a dead XLR to the mic. Just to save a fight.
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Anybody that says they have not had a night or felt like this has either not been doing it long, or is just lying. Everyone gets THAT act you just cannot deal with. Some nights I wonder why I don't do this full time, and then I get those nights where coal mining looks promising. You just have to look at the averages. Most of the time everyone is happy, and sometimes one of us wants to kill the other one. Let it go, take a little time off, re-group, and take a deep breath. If you enjoy it when it goes right, keep doing it. Soon enough they will generally go right, but they will never always go right. Thats just life.
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Everyone (at least most everyone) on this board has worked a gig exactly like what you experienced.
When working with bands like that, no one will ever get the sound right for them. A few years ago, I provided sound for a band that had "issues" with everything I did. It was easy to remedy... I did the best I could (similar situation as yours) collected my rate from them and at the end, told them I will not be working with them again. Done.
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We have all had those gigs. It is true tho on how you project yourself. I don't play the nice guy, and I will walk up on stage and tell them to turn down because they are sounding like a bunch of kids playing. OR I do the walk up to them point at them and give the turn down sign. I am not afraid to do this because I know when they are down playing and they hear "you guys sounded awesome" I am not losing the next gig.
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The thing about retiring is that it doesn't have to be permanent.
No matter ho much it sucks to have a bad experience like you describe, it IS a learning experience which you can use in future endeavors.
Last night I did a band in a small bar who seemed surprised that I showed up after they booked me. The guy that called simply forgot or something. The bar had a stage but the owner parks his motorcycle on it and didn't want to move it for the show... band set up in the bar area. No power whatsoever in this area... well an outlet with Jukebox, dartboard, and ATM plugged into it...
Still all problems were worked out and dealt with, the band sounded decent (one loud guitarist at times but what else is new?)
The main objective was to give one of my buddies hands on experience with the Presonus board on preparation for a charity job on Sunday. This was accomplished, got paid more then what I asked for and the band wants to book me for a show in January.
It my firm opinion that by far that when an event goes bad it is primarily due to lack of preparation. Each time a problem arises at an even ask yourself "if I had prepared more effectively would this have happened?"
This summer I agreed to do a field day show with what I jokingly refer to as CNY's loudest country band. We were shut down by the state police after only one song. (its a funny story - they surrounded a house about 1/4 mile away shout out the windows with bean bag, blew the door open, sent in a robot only to find the occupant was asleep the whole time) If we had been allowed to continue we might had woken her up and ended the problem. It was hours before we could resume, the crowd thinned to a few people, the kick drum rattled the tin roof, the snare dueled with lead guitar for dominance, I mixed on I-pad as far back as I could get.
Now why would I put myself in this situation? Well for one, 2 of the band members put in 3 long days for me at a festival this summer. Without them the job would have turned in to a epic disaster as NONE for the promised help ever put in an appearance.
Live sound isn't all fun and games. Hopefully the parts that are fun compensate for the parts that aren't.
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The thing about retiring is that it doesn't have to be permanent.
No matter ho much it sucks to have a bad experience like you describe, it IS a learning experience which you can use in future endeavors.
Last night I did a band in a small bar who seemed surprised that I showed up after they booked me. The guy that called simply forgot or something. The bar had a stage but the owner parks his motorcycle on it and didn't want to move it for the show... band set up in the bar area. No power whatsoever in this area... well an outlet with Jukebox, dartboard, and ATM plugged into it...
Still all problems were worked out and dealt with, the band sounded decent (one loud guitarist at times but what else is new?)
The main objective was to give one of my buddies hands on experience with the Presonus board on preparation for a charity job on Sunday. This was accomplished, got paid more then what I asked for and the band wants to book me for a show in January.
It my firm opinion that by far that when an event goes bad it is primarily due to lack of preparation. Each time a problem arises at an even ask yourself "if I had prepared more effectively would this have happened?"
This summer I agreed to do a field day show with what I jokingly refer to as CNY's loudest country band. We were shut down by the state police after only one song. (its a funny story - they surrounded a house about 1/4 mile away shout out the windows with bean bag, blew the door open, sent in a robot only to find the occupant was asleep the whole time) If we had been allowed to continue we might had woken her up and ended the problem. It was hours before we could resume, the crowd thinned to a few people, the kick drum rattled the tin roof, the snare dueled with lead guitar for dominance, I mixed on I-pad as far back as I could get.
Now why would I put myself in this situation? Well for one, 2 of the band members put in 3 long days for me at a festival this summer. Without them the job would have turned in to a epic disaster as NONE for the promised help ever put in an appearance.
Live sound isn't all fun and games. Hopefully the parts that are fun compensate for the parts that aren't.
Over the years, I have learned that preparation is the key to making SR jobs run smoothly. I have taken the time to experiment with different mic/monitor combinations and store all of my EQ settings in the library on my Yamaha console. As a result, I can recall a setting based on what gear I am using, and I know that significant monitor volume can be reached with that setting. If band members can't hear themselves at that point.....they either need to get up on the mic and sing or turn down their stage volume. Luckily, after 20 years in the SR business I have built up enough of a client base that I can pick and choose who I work with.....which makes it much easier to get positive results. Getting to this point takes alot of time to achieve, but once you are there it's awesome. Many times new clients wonder why I contact them to go over details about their band and performance. I get all of the information that I can....this way I can do the best job possible, or I can choose not to take the job. The last thing I want to do is put myself in a situation where I can't achieve the quality that I'm capable of producing.....that just hurts potential client's opinions of my quality of work.
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Yeah makes me wonder what these's guys rep is among sound guys and why they came to me. usually once you find a sound guy you like, you stick with him. I have had a few repeat cliens. In fact one emailed me this a.m. and asked what gives ? He must of seen this thread or maybe some of the gear I put on CL. There just isnt enough quality paying work. everybody is cutthroat and it's simply not worth it for those rates. Most bands around here avergage 500 for a bar gig(That is with an agent who then takes 15%). So not much lft to pay for sound. That is why i work more using my lunchbox mixer than I do using a full system like I did wed night. The bands are happier, the club is happier because I don't overpower the place and I can move and setup fast.
This job a did a few months ago was in a bar no bigger than my basement. I used an 8 channel Mackie 808s, 1 monitor mix with 1 powered monitor for the drummer and 4 passive monitors for the rest. I used Powered Mackie tops and subs, mic'd the kick bass gtrs and vox. it sounded good, no feedback at all and everyone was happy . I got 150$ for it and it took me 45 mins to setup.
These are the only jobs I would even do in the future. They booked me for two more shows already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WctgO5HISNg&list=UUdb5JicXJ6rEUlfnbrRy3Iw&index=10&feature=plcp
But the big thing is both gtr payers played at very reasonable volumes(The lead guy had an axeffect..Damn that thing sounded good). The drummer was not pound the crap out of the drums like it was Madison Square garden and the singer actually asked me to turn the monitors down a little.
This setup was all I ever used with my own band. I'm gonna keep this equipment to do jobs like this. No more big jobs. I only made 25$ less. Like you guys said and yor right, to do a job the size I did Wed night with multiple monitor mixes (I ended up with 4 mixes) and put up with all that BS for 175$ ??? No way.
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Kenny, I've dealt with more of these crapshack bands than I remember. Do not let it get you down. I was a house guy for a while in a place that had metal bands exclusively. Probably, 99% didn't know what the fark they were doing. Everyone was way too damned loud and their performance suffered because of it. The house gear wasn't the best but I got the job done everytime. When people were too loud, I would go tell them to turn down in between songs. If they didn't, oh well, no skin off my back. I would have patrons come up to me, telling me they couldn't hear the vocals.
You know what I told them? Neither can I.
Brush it off and keep moving forward!
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Thanksgiving Eve has become almost like New Year's Eve for most clubs. My little 135 seat room was at capacity. Did this band pack the club? Are they important at all in the area?
If they didn't, I wouldn't worry about them at all. But even if they did, it's just one bad gig. For most of us we just brush it off and move on.
If we all quit after one bad gig there would be no one left standing.
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I work for $175 a night on average. I'm paid a little better than the band members. When a band gets $600-750 for a night, it's kinda hard to pay a sound man what it's actually worth. The bonus is that I work with the same people all the time. I basically serve 3 bands, and I stay busier than I want to. I feel your pain. That's one of the reasons I got out of the business I was in, freelance, and hooked up with some bands I like. I leave at the end of the night with money in my pocket and no real overhead, no payroll, no worrying about help not showing up. For anyone who might say I'm lowering the bar for the real sound companies, that's just not true at all. If not for me, these bands would do their own sound, and sound bad. I'm not taking anyone's business. It works for me, and it works for the bands. If a band did me the way that band did you, they'd never see me again unless they came to somebody else's show.
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See my sig...
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See my sig...
And mine. We all make mistakes, but unless you hit the Suck button, or you're an ankle-biter who undercuts the pros' bids and shows up with a bottom-dweller rig, it's generally the "talent" that's the issue.
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I'm now involved with a really nice, small-ish venue (400 cap.) When a band comes in I have a nice chat with them about how if they play too loud they are screwing themselves. The PA is there to amplify them, they don't need to kill people with loud stage volume. If after that they still play too loud I turn their monitors OFF until they get the idea that I'll turn 'em back on when they settle down and start acting like professionals, or at least trying to. If/when patrons come up to me to complain about not hearing X, Y or Z because something else is too loud I tell them to go up to the stage and complain to THE BAND, specifically the offending member. So far that has gotten some amazing results.
Don't give up, it's not you.
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And here I am at the opposite end of this wanting to learn more and get into mixing live events....:)
Any pro's in the Northern Colorado area willing to take on an apprentice? :)
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And here I am at the opposite end of this wanting to learn more and get into mixing live events....:)
Any pro's in the Northern Colorado area willing to take on an apprentice? :)
There is nothing wrong with that. This was the final nail in the coffin for me. I am pushing 50, have some minor disabilities and lugging all this gear around for the rates around here and then that kind of aggrivation...No thanks. I thought about it all weekend up in the Poconos while I was spending time with my son riding quads and that it what I should be doing. he is growing up so fast. I don't need to be out in gin mills on weekends. I am keeping my smaller setup for future band projects and they few easy bands I do small jobs for. That's it. These top40 coverbands are a huge PIA and I don't wanna be bothered. I would love to learn how to run a real house sound . system. Doing portable sound is just too much work for the money around here.
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Jared you can always come work at the union colony civic center in Greeley. We're always looking for good people who will work hard and by complain. We'll teach you some about production( sound, lighting, rigging, etc) it's also a place you can experiment and get better when not in a show.
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I thought about it all weekend up in the Poconos while I was spending time with my son riding quads and that it what I should be doing. he is growing up so fast. I don't need to be out in gin mills on weekends.
You're making the right decision for the right reason. Carry on, and good luck in all your future endeavors.
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Sounds like you've given it the time and thought to settle back and prioritize. Good for you.
Here's a link to a YouTube channel that I use for background music around the house. Good time music from the Golden Age of the 20's:
https://www.youtube.com/user/edmundusrex?feature=watch
Try it out. It's great stuff.
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Just thought of something funny. the gig I cancelled on them in a few weeks was at very small place in hartford. I feel really sorry for the poor guy that takes that job. In fact I want to go sneek in incognito just to see how the soundguy handles them. Maybe I could learn something or maybe I'll just see that it wasn't me as much as I think.
You mentioned Hartford, are you in CT? I am in southwestern CT. I don’t do and never have done bar gigs, for many of the reasons you have shared here.
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You're making the right decision for the right reason. Carry on, and good luck in all your future endeavors.
I agree and also wish you the best. If you're ever in Boston and I'm working a gig with the band you're welcome to push faders any time you wish.
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Kenny, you know it when you're done. The lousy band just helped you see your family is more important.
Just use your talents just on special events that will put a smile on your face.
Best!
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You mentioned Hartford, are you in CT? I am in southwestern CT. I don’t do and never have done bar gigs, for many of the reasons you have shared here.
Out in the Hills...lol Stafford..
I sold my Board, my snake and some knick knacks so far. I have a Charity Job Sat for my son's school. I will keep my 8 channel and my FOH Powered Mackies for stuff like that which I enjoy doing. In fact if I don't get decent buck for my Crown PB's I may just donate them to the School. They are old tech but they work good. The PA amp they have in the auditorium...well...it has tubes...:)
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Nothing explains them treating you the way they did.. If I ha $.05 for every show that didn't end well I could buy a big mac! With that being said though, I know that with our PA I know that it's only a 20,000w system. It will only get so loud. I let them know this. If they choose to accept, and can't hear I'm not going to blow up my stuff for them. A recone kit will wipe out my profit.. Plus I try my best to stick with bands I want to go out and spend the evening with.
Heads up buddy... You'll have nights like that, but you'll have better nights than bad nights..
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"One more complaint about the monitors and the wedge becomes a wedgie. then you'll have all the 'me' you want in it."
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Out in the Hills...lol Stafford..
I sold my Board, my snake and some knick knacks so far. I have a Charity Job Sat for my son's school. I will keep my 8 channel and my FOH Powered Mackies for stuff like that which I enjoy doing. In fact if I don't get decent buck for my Crown PB's I may just donate them to the School. They are old tech but they work good. The PA amp they have in the auditorium...well...it has tubes...:)
If you are doing if for the enjoyment of it then only do the jobs you will enjoy. I do this for a living and I can’t afford to retire from it. But I rarely have to deal with the type of situation you had. I don’t do clubs and most of the bands I deal with don’t usually give me any problems. I also hardly ever do a show by myself. We did have one this summer where the lead singer supposedly had just been signed to some sort of recording deal. She couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket and she shouted instead of singing her songs. She asked me how it was after sound check and I tried to just keep my mouth shut but she wouldn’t leave me along, so I told her. I am not very good at lying when someone asks me something like that. The lesson I learned from that is to come up with some excuse to have to run to the bathroom quickly. She had the look but that was about it.
I took a ride up your way in the middle of October heading to MA. There sure is a big difference between SW CT and NE CT even though it isn’t a big state.
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If you are doing if for the enjoyment of it then only do the jobs you will enjoy. I do this for a living and I can’t afford to retire from it. But I rarely have to deal with the type of situation you had. I don’t do clubs and most of the bands I deal with don’t usually give me any problems. I also hardly ever do a show by myself. We did have one this summer where the lead singer supposedly had just been signed to some sort of recording deal. She couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket and she shouted instead of singing her songs. She asked me how it was after sound check and I tried to just keep my mouth shut but she wouldn’t leave me along, so I told her. I am not very good at lying when someone asks me something like that. The lesson I learned from that is to come up with some excuse to have to run to the bathroom quickly. She had the look but that was about it.
i have a standard answer whenever the 'talent' asks me how it sounds. i say 'it sounds like you, but louder' with a big smile and a thumbs up. keeps me from having to express my qualitative judgements.... :)
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i have a standard answer whenever the 'talent' asks me how it sounds. i say 'it sounds like you, but louder' with a big smile and a thumbs up. keeps me from having to express my qualitative judgements.... :)
I can’t remember exactly what I said but I tried something like that and she keep pushing it. After thinking about it I think she wanted her ego stroked and was thinking she was going to get a compliment from me.
I tired everything I could to make her sound good but it was hopeless. He backup band sounded good and I think that helped to show how off she was.
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I can’t remember exactly what I said but I tried something like that and she keep pushing it. After thinking about it I think she wanted her ego stroked and was thinking she was going to get a compliment from me.
I tired everything I could to make her sound good but it was hopeless. He backup band sounded good and I think that helped to show how off she was.
I once had a singer ask me (after the first set) what I thought.
My answer ??
Who cares what I think. What does the audience think, that's the real question.
"Jimmy, you provide a show - a package. You voice is only a small part of that package. Everyone is up and dancing, they must be enjoying themselves. So again, don't worry what I think. I am here to mix the band. I ain't no talent scout"
I ended up working for that band 60 shows a year, for 6 or 7 years.
No, his voice wasn't that good, sometimes he WAS in tune. So what ?
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Well it's been a month. I had pulled my ads but someone called me anyway. it was a southern/country band. They had a small venue to do and wanted to use a small setup and save a few bucks. I was hesistant. I explained to the guy that I really wasnt going to do it anymore and had sold sold some stuff and could only offer him an 8 channel mix(which was more than adequate for the size of the room). they agreed.
WOW...What a difference working for REAL musicians. This band could not have been further from the band that tortured me Thanksgiving eve. The singers were both amazing, nice easy to work with. The owner was concerned about volume and I told the band that if they play loud I cannot do anything for them. they said no problem and I have never heard a band control stage volume like these guys(and gal) did.
It was such an easy job. I barely touched the mixer all night. The club owner was happy and will be booking them alot. They will also be booking me. Unfortunately for them the events of Friday put a damper on the mood and the place was pretty empty.
If al bands were like these guys sound jobs would be a pleasure. I was really doubting myself last time but now I realize it was not me. I will NEVER do sound EVER again for loud obnoxious Top40 Rock/bar bands. NO Thanks...Not worth it. Only country, oldies etc with mature musicians.
Anyway it was a nice evening. I am doing a job for them Memorial day weekend at a campground so I can camp too and bring the family.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZh0Zah3XSs&feature=youtu.be
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they're not all like that. I work for several cover bands, mostly 80's music, and they are all super people to work with, and they get the bookings. The bands like you had problems with wont be getting return bookings.
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Welcome back Kenny, now we can discuss important stuff like the best cowbell, kick, harmonium, glockenspiel mic...
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So, It's been awhile. Funny....I basically pulled my ad and didn't want to do this anymore after working for that band back in Nov and I have had 2-3 jobs a month since I scaled down and work fairly consistently with 2-3 bands regularly. I am booked as much as I want to be till Sept.
Small jobs that most guys would probably turn away but I am having trouble physically so small jobs are all I want to do. Have not had one single problem since that night in November. I actually did a job Sat night at a campground and stayed there as well although the weather kinda stunk.
I have started wearing ear plugs though. Funny when I do these jobs I don't drink because it's my feeling that I am working for the band and not there to get hammered but yet I feel like I was out all night boozing anyway the next day. Headache etc. Since I used ear plugs...headaches are gone.
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talk about cramming. I had to do sound for 3 bands in a friggin hallway...lol
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93097302@N08/8848616419/in/photostream/
and yes, I had to leave access to the POS system...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93097302@N08/8848592163/
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How is this for a sound towing rig ??
lol
You can barely see my trailer behind it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93097302@N08/8848745645/
The campground towed my trailer up to the pavilion.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93097302@N08/8849396440/
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Kenny
I just saw this topic and wanted to share my story.
We have all had these crappy gigs.
The first real pro gig I mixed for was very hard. Got a little flustered and said I did not want to mix pro stuff again. Later on that year I had a major wireless malfunctioning system for a high end Christmas drama the first night of a two night gig. But this time I got flustered during the gig but as soon as it was over I cleared my head and turned to my colleagues for help. And with their help and my keeping cool and finding the solution the second night went flawlessly. Moral of the story keeping cool is key. And you were working to cheep.
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lol...cheap isnt the word..borderline charity.
I make more money on the small jobs now.
There is just no money in it around here. Not with bar bands. You either gotta take it to a pro level and do REAL sound for REAL acts or work for nothing doing crapholes like I was doing.
I got over the Nov gig. I know what went wrong.
Me:
had the flu on all kinds of bad Rx meds. Should have cancelled the job.
Got flustered too easily as a result and overlooked obvious. Also should have been more assertive with band concerning Stage Volume
Band:
Completely unprofessional attitudes. OUT OF CONTROL
stage volume.
Expectations way too high for what they wanted to pay.
The drummer was the main problem and he thought he was Animal form the Muppets. The singer was covering her ears he was so loud and then complains she can;t hear the monitors...really ??
I still do sound for one rock band but they are much more professional and they for the most part keep stage volume real. If they get too loud and I tell them turn down, they do.
I actually did a Hard rock heavy metal band. I knew the drummer so I did it as a favor but would not do it again. Nice guys. First two songs were rough because the singer showed up 2 mins before showtime and they went on with no sound check but he knew it and had no prob.
The reason I would not do it again s they were way too loud. Deafening. Also I won't do sound for bands that play stuff like Rage against the Machine, etc. I personally like hard rock...but these are small crapholes with no real security and I don't need my equipment destroyed by a bunch of punks in a moshpit nor do I need to get sued when a speaker falls on someone. No thanks. Give me oldies and country music. What a difference...No stress at all.
I would love sometime in my life though to tag along to a real sound job like at an arena and see it all on a pro level. I can't imagine how one guy can keep control over all that...
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I would love sometime in my life though to tag along to a real sound job like at an arena and see it all on a pro level. I can't imagine how one guy can keep control over all that...
One guy does not its a team effort. Monitors are done separate from FOH. And the bands you work with know how things work and have reasonable expeditions. The information that is gathered ahead of time is mostly correct. Your received stage plots patch lists etc. The team all know the "drill".
There is a huge difference between bar gigs and real sound jobs. (Not knocking and bar guys) the equipment is on a whole different level. And 175 will maybe pay for fuel.