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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: charles e strickland on January 22, 2018, 01:22:18 pm

Title: eaw sb1001
Post by: charles e strickland on January 22, 2018, 01:22:18 pm
I'm sure I just missed it, but I can't find any opinions on the sb1001's . was thinking about a second sub rig. any input on their performance would be helpful. thanks Charles
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 22, 2018, 02:21:22 pm
I'm sure I just missed it, but I can't find any opinions on the sb1001's . was thinking about a second sub rig. any input on their performance would be helpful. thanks Charles

They've been out for 8 years, most of the "shiny new" has worn off.  EAW touted them as a major improvement over the SB1000 but my recollection is that output didn't *seem* significantly greater compared to the SB1000.  I recall they sounded a little tighter and might have gone a wee bit lower.

While working as a stage hand I'd moved a whole bunch of 1000/1001 but can't recall any in the last 5 years.  If you've already got EAW inventory and the price is right, go for it.  I'm not sure I'd spend the price of new SB1001 unless I was filling out an existing rig and couldn't find trusted, used gear.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: brian maddox on January 22, 2018, 02:55:18 pm
They've been out for 8 years, most of the "shiny new" has worn off.  EAW touted them as a major improvement over the SB1000 but my recollection is that output didn't *seem* significantly greater compared to the SB1000.  I recall they sounded a little tighter and might have gone a wee bit lower.

While working as a stage hand I'd moved a whole bunch of 1000/1001 but can't recall any in the last 5 years.  If you've already got EAW inventory and the price is right, go for it.  I'm not sure I'd spend the price of new SB1001 unless I was filling out an existing rig and couldn't find trusted, used gear.

So, it's basically "1 more" than an SB1000...  :)
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 22, 2018, 03:46:01 pm
So, it's basically "1 more" than an SB1000...  :)

That was my aural impression.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on January 22, 2018, 04:50:15 pm
Did an install last week in a 750 cap room with two SB2001 a side, very impressive output and sound quality.

Highly recommended.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Jeremy Young on January 22, 2018, 05:11:29 pm
So would that be "1001 more" than an SB1000? Sorry I couldn't resist.  Those always looked impressive on paper, was the rest of the rig EAW?
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on January 22, 2018, 05:48:37 pm
So would that be "1001 more" than an SB1000? Sorry I couldn't resist.  Those always looked impressive on paper, was the rest of the rig EAW?

Yes.

Itís one QX564+544 as mains with two SB2001 a side. MK2366 frontfills and VFR89i delays. All powered and processed by Powersoft.

Pics here:
https://www.facebook.com/lydsystemer/posts/10156149542009973
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Don T. Williams on January 22, 2018, 07:12:15 pm
The SB2001's are dual 21" subs.  I recently installed three 2001's with the center one turned 180 degrees and set up as a cardioid array in a 600 seat church. PowerSoft amps with internal processing here also.  They wanted low bass and they got what they wanted!
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: charles e strickland on January 22, 2018, 10:54:25 pm
while we're at it would a ma 9000i be enough amp for the 1001's one channel per box or is going to take a 12000i to get the job done { live sound } thanks.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on January 23, 2018, 04:40:13 am
while we're at it would a ma 9000i be enough amp for the 1001's one channel per box or is going to take a 12000i to get the job done { live sound } thanks.

I wouldn't run a MA90o0i in 2 ohms. SB2001 is a dual 4ohm load.

Also, you would need a UX8800 to process it, so you might as well look into Powersoft. They do EAW processing internally in their amplifiers and can do 2ohm all night.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: charles e strickland on January 23, 2018, 09:24:03 am
Thanks for the reply.I was asking the amp question for sb1001, not the 2001. my stock is all KF and MA gear and yes I would be using a ux3600.  I use 9000i"s with my sb1000"s with nice H R  the spec"s on the 1001"s call for a little more gas. I know the 12000i would be a good match. was hoping that the 1000 w would be enough H R  if I went with the 9000i on the 1001"s Thanks, Charles.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Don T. Williams on January 23, 2018, 10:32:27 am
Thanks for the reply.I was asking the amp question for sb1001, not the 2001. my stock is all KF and MA gear and yes I would be using a ux3600.  I use 9000i"s with my sb1000"s with nice H R  the spec"s on the 1001"s call for a little more gas. I know the 12000i would be a good match. was hoping that the 1000 w would be enough H R  if I went with the 9000i on the 1001"s Thanks, Charles.
Sorry for the confusion.  I was just trying to clarify that the sb2001, being a dual 21" sub, was not the same as the sb1001.  I should have left off the additional comment.  There are a lot of sb1000's and sb1001's out there, so I'll bet  some forum members have the experience with them that I don't have.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: charles e strickland on January 23, 2018, 10:56:50 am
No worries Don. while I got you could you give me some info on the powersoft k10. I went to the website and it said 4000 w @ 4 ohms stereo in one rack space.{ beam me up Scottie}. how do they hold up? would I need dsp or could I get by without it if I process with my ux3600 would be using it for sub duty thanks for your time Charles
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 23, 2018, 02:26:34 pm
Did an install last week in a 750 cap room with two SB2001 a side, very impressive output and sound quality.

Highly recommended.

The SB2001 *is* a significant improvement, no question.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Jeremy Young on January 23, 2018, 06:23:43 pm
Charles, the Powersoft K-series are considered class-leading.  I don't have any first-hand experience with their products (one day hope to add some K10's to my rig) but I've read nearly everything on this forum and the soundforums site regarding reviews/tests/real world experiences and the verdict is that they are fantastic. Do some searching and you'll find a lot of information on these forums regarding the powersoft products. 

i'll let the other more experienced members chime in (Ahem, Helge?), but if you already own the EAW processor there wouldn't be a need for another "processing" step in the chain, so the non-dsp amps would be a good fit.  Again, the "in over my head but still giving advice" disclaimer applies.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: charles e strickland on January 23, 2018, 07:11:28 pm
Thank you for your input, Jeremy. I am building a new sub rig mostly to cross rent with the 1001"s I do love my eaw"s. The price for the K 10"s are close to the ma"s and taking up less Rackspace is a big plus ad that to the fact that I have the UX 3600 sitting on the shelf and it might be a good time to try something new. I"ll need to research it a bit and think about the ROI end of it.I seldom look for something new but I"m always looking for something better. Thanks again Charles.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on January 24, 2018, 03:39:20 am
Thank you for your input, Jeremy. I am building a new sub rig mostly to cross rent with the 1001"s I do love my eaw"s. The price for the K 10"s are close to the ma"s and taking up less Rackspace is a big plus ad that to the fact that I have the UX 3600 sitting on the shelf and it might be a good time to try something new. I"ll need to research it a bit and think about the ROI end of it.I seldom look for something new but I"m always looking for something better. Thanks again Charles.

IMHO K10 is one of the best subwoofer amps on the market, right up to the moment you try the K20  ;)

You really canít go wrong with K10 and SB1000/1001, sounds sweet.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Jeremy Young on January 25, 2018, 04:25:04 pm
Sorry for the slight swerve.

Helge, have you worked with the non-DSP K-series amplifiers?  I'm trying to determine whether the limiters (true power/peak voltage) are still available on non-DSP versions. 

The brochure says "full protection scheme" under features for the non-dsp version, but that could just be describing overtemp, clip etc. 

The manual refers to the clip limiter/max output voltage/max mains current section of the menu tree as being under the "amplifier settings" section and not the "dsp settings" section.  I've never had one in front of me to play with.  I'm sure the DSP is excellent, but for my needs would be money spent that I wouldn't necessarily need to spend if it's primarily EQ and crossover functions.  And of course I could always buy the DSP upgrade at a later time.

Install looks great BTW.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on January 25, 2018, 05:21:37 pm
You can download Armonia and have a look for yourself here:

http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/software/armonia-pro-audio-suite

On the non-DSP-units in the K-series, you can access clip limiter, mains current protection plus a few other things.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Lee Buckalew on January 25, 2018, 10:32:38 pm
You can download Armonia and have a look for yourself here:

http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/software/armonia-pro-audio-suite

On the non-DSP-units in the K-series, you can access clip limiter, mains current protection plus a few other things.

Plus you can add DSP later as an upgrade if you want.  You can also upgrade to a larger model within the same chassis size. 
K series has two different chassis depths and, unless they have changed this, you can buy an upgrade kit to make your K series amp into any larger model within the same chassis size.

Lee
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on January 26, 2018, 03:46:40 am
Plus you can add DSP later as an upgrade if you want.  You can also upgrade to a larger model within the same chassis size. 
K series has two different chassis depths and, unless they have changed this, you can buy an upgrade kit to make your K series amp into any larger model within the same chassis size.

Lee

You are correct :)

K2->K3
K6->K10 are the available upgrades.

K8 is discontinued and replaced by the X-series.
K20 is a different platform.


Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Jeremy Young on January 31, 2018, 07:24:53 pm
For those following along at home, I followed Helge's advice and downloaded the Armonia software and started playing around.  I'm sure it's more fun when there are amps connected and sound coming out, but it was still relatively easy to navigate with no prior understanding of the software (intentional to see how intuitive it was).

I was able to drop a K10(non-DSP) into the mix, and adjust things like the clip limiter, max mains current limiter, gate, gain setting, levels and mute, and idle delay.  So yes, the mains current limiter is included with the non-DSP models.  Unfortunately it doesn't seem that the "full protection scheme" the brochure talks about includes the multi-stage limiters.

When I dropped a K10-DSP into the mix, suddenly I had access to all of the DSP parameters, which included input delay, EQ's on inputs and outputs including custom FIR capabilities, damping control, power limiter settings, peak limiter settings, and crossovers.  Very comprehensive and pretty easy to navigate.

Hope that information helps someone looking into this same thing. 

Pretty cool product structure to be able to buy a K6 non-DSP today, and grow it into a K10-DSP later.
Title: Re: eaw sb1001
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 02, 2018, 07:57:27 am
They've been out for 8 years, most of the "shiny new" has worn off.  EAW touted them as a major improvement over the SB1000 but my recollection is that output didn't *seem* significantly greater compared to the SB1000.  I recall they sounded a little tighter and might have gone a wee bit lower.

While working as a stage hand I'd moved a whole bunch of 1000/1001 but can't recall any in the last 5 years.  If you've already got EAW inventory and the price is right, go for it.  I'm not sure I'd spend the price of new SB1001 unless I was filling out an existing rig and couldn't find trusted, used gear.

Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.

These subs were always an attractively sized package, but by design marginalized available internal volume, sacrificing  VLF extension.