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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Frank Caridi on April 18, 2018, 07:09:19 PM
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Going to try this again I am a newb on here and with pro audio gear.
I need some sound at a party that I have coming up and I currently have Samson RSX115 speakers
I need a subwoofer to go with it
I was looking at
Qsc kw181
Ev ETX 18sp
Jbl SRX818SP
Looking for your guys experience and input as to what I should go with. The SQ of them and what hits the hardest sounds good? Thanks appreciate it.
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For indoor or outdoor application?
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For indoor or outdoor application?
It’s going to be indoors but I could also use maybe for blockpartys and BBQS
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It’s going to be indoors but I could also use maybe for blockpartys and BBQS
Block parties? One subwoofer will do nothing beyond 10ft outside.
You choose mid line subs from 3 very popular companies, they are all more the same than different. I doubt any would do better than any other for your purposes. All are much higher grade than your main speakers.
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Block parties? One subwoofer will do nothing beyond 10ft outside.
You choose mid line subs from 3 very popular companies, they are all more the same than different. I doubt any would do better than any other for your purposes. All are much higher grade than your main speakers.
Yea speakers aren’t fancy but it’s what I have right now but they get plenty loud and sound pretty good! I can always get better tops. But what I need Is the subwoofer.
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When are you looking to buy?
In addition to the above mentioned subs, Yamaha will be releasing their new line of powered subs soon. They may well be worth a listen if you can wait.
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They are barely mentioned here, but EV ETX-18SP do what I ask of them.
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Before you spend $1,000 on a subwoofer, you may want to check with local rental houses on what they charge. Also do you have a crossover or do you need a sub that does that for you?
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Before you spend $1,000 on a subwoofer, you may want to check with local rental houses on what they charge. Also do you have a crossover or do you need a sub that does that for you?
I don’t have active crossovers. I need a subwoofer that would do that my speakers are passive.
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When are you looking to buy?
In addition to the above mentioned subs, Yamaha will be releasing their new line of powered subs soon. They may well be worth a listen if you can wait.
Do you know the model number of the new ones? I need it for Memorial Day weekend
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Came across Pevey subwoofers look really promising
Peavey VersArray 118
Peavey QW 118
What do you guys think?
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I don’t have active crossovers. I need a subwoofer that would do that my speakers are passive.
You're going to need some form of active crossover/dsp. Your latest post you suggest the Peavey single 18" Versarray sub as a possibility, and that sub is not powered or processed, just like your Samson tops. This makes an active crossover a necessity, along with proper amplification of both tops and subs
Running those Samson speakers full range with a sub will likely lead to premature failure of the woofers in those Samsons.
Best regards,
John
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You're going to need some form of active crossover/dsp. Your latest post you suggest the Peavey single 18" Versarray sub as a possibility, and that sub is not powered or processed, just like your Samson tops. This makes an active crossover a necessity, along with proper amplification of both tops and subs
Running those Samson speakers full range with a sub will likely lead to premature failure of the woofers in those Samsons.
Best regards,
John
Yes I know the Pevey subs are passive and I’m going to need an amp but the amp that I use to run the Samson’s have a 50hz cut off so is it safe to say that that will be okay? Or just go with an active subwoofer so I can use the subwoofer to set the crossover and send let’s say 100hz to the tops and everything lower to the subwoofer?
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Yes I know the Pevey subs are passive and I’m going to need an amp but the amp that I use to run the Samson’s have a 50hz cut off so is it safe to say that that will be okay? Or just go with an active subwoofer so I can use the subwoofer to set the crossover and send let’s say 100hz to the tops and everything lower to the subwoofer?
Hi Frank - welcome to the forum.
I would argue that your choice of sub today matters less for your current speakers, than for what your future plans are. Ideally, your sub choice will match future new main speakers - i.e. if you are going to eventually move to JBL SRX812p mains, it would make sense to get the JBL SRX818sp subs as they will match, which saves some headaches. It's possible to mix and match, but that requires some setup know how, and as someone mentioned, since most of the subs in your list are more similar than different (passive subs excepted), it's better to just get matching gear if you can.
RE protecting your current main speakers - yes, turn the 50Hz high-pass filter on on your amp. That will help, but ideally you will want a higher rolloff - somewhere between 80Hz and 120Hz, depending on some other variables. This is best done with a DSP, but can probably be approximated if you have a digital mixing board.
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Hi Frank - welcome to the forum.
I would argue that your choice of sub today matters less for your current speakers, than for what your current plans are. Ideally, your sub choice will match future new main speakers - i.e. if you are going to eventually move to JBL SRX812p mains, it would make sense to get the JBL SRX818sp subs as they will match, which saves some headaches. It's possible to mix and match, but that requires some setup know how, and as someone mentioned, since most of the subs in your list are more similar than different (passive subs excepted), it's better to just get matching gear if you can.
RE protecting your current main speakers - yes, turn the 50Hz high-pass filter on on your amp. That will help, but ideally you will want a higher rolloff - somewhere between 80Hz and 120Hz, depending on some other variables. This is best done with a DSP, but can probably be approximated if you have a digital mixing board.
Thank you! Yes that does make sense! I can go cheaper with the subwoofer and get samsons 18in subwoofer but I wasn’t crazy about the subwoofer! The speakers I do like. But my question for get the passive subwoofer cause I see I’m going to have to buy a lot more gear to get that and I just don’t have the know how yet to dabble with that. My question is if I get the ETX 18sp it has a lot of DSP and functionality but if I go with that I can set the crossover in there to send the 100hz and higher to my tops is this correct? Cause with the Qsc I don’t see that option.
This would make my life a lot simpler if the subwoofer has the crossover built in!
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Thank you! Yes that does make sense! I can go cheaper with the subwoofer and get samsons 18in subwoofer but I wasn’t crazy about the subwoofer! The speakers I do like. But my question for get the passive subwoofer cause I see I’m going to have to buy a lot more gear to get that and I just don’t have the know how yet to dabble with that. My question is if I get the ETX 18sp it has a lot of DSP and functionality but if I go with that I can set the crossover in there to send the 100hz and higher to my tops is this correct? Cause with the Qsc I don’t see that option.
This would make my life a lot simpler if the subwoofer has the crossover built in!
First of all, for 99% of users, a self-powered system is the way to go. Apples to apples, they are cheaper than buying speakers plus amps, sound better, are better protected, and easier to use. There are specific use cases where this may not be the case, but for your purposes, I would strongly suggest some kind of self-powered speaker.
Neither the SRX818sp or ETX-18SP have a output that is crossed over. All of the DSP options for these and most other similar speakers is for their internal use, as they were designed to be used with the matching main speakers which also have DSP built-in.
I would not let that be a major deterrent. You can buy a used DBX 223 crossover or similar for $25-$50 that will get the job done in the short term.
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the amp that I use to run the Samson’s have a 50hz cut off so is it safe to say that that will be okay?
No... not the same.
Or just go with an active subwoofer so I can use the subwoofer to set the crossover and send let’s say 100hz to the tops and everything lower to the subwoofer?
None of these active subs have a full crossover built-in so you would still need an external crossover to do this correctly, as a result you may be inclined to go with a passive sub and external amp/crossover combo at this time. If you do buy an active sub then it will make most sense to also buy the matching tops when the time comes to upgrade those.
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No... not the same.
None of these active subs have a full crossover built-in so you would still need an external crossover to do this correctly, as a result you may be inclined to go with a passive sub and external amp/crossover combo at this time. If you do buy an active sub then it will make most sense to also buy the matching tops when the time comes to upgrade those.
My problem is I don’t know how to use a active cross over or how hard it is to set it up. But I have a family members party combing up and they want some music so I figure I give them some sound. I I just buy one of those active subwoofers will it work? I will eventually get power tops but right now I can’t afford to after I get a subwoofer.
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My problem is I don’t know how to use a active cross over or how hard it is to set it up. But I have a family members party combing up and they want some music so I figure I give them some sound. I I just buy one of those active subwoofers will it work? I will eventually get power tops but right now I can’t afford to after I get a subwoofer.
Frank, there are different degrees of "the right way to do something". If you keep the volume moderate and turn your 50Hz filter switch on, you'll get through your gig OK; just use your senses to determine if you're close to the redline - listen for distortion, use your nose to smell if the drivers are getting hot, etc.
That said, a basic active crossover is cheap and pretty simple - they have full-range inputs from your mixer, and they have outputs marked high and low (and sometimes mids) for your mains. There may be a couple switches to put in the right place and a crossover point knob, but they're not too bad.
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Frank, there are different degrees of "the right way to do something". If you keep the volume moderate and turn your 50Hz filter switch on, you'll get through your gig OK; just use your senses to determine if you're close to the redline - listen for distortion, use your nose to smell if the drivers are getting hot, etc.
That said, a basic active crossover is cheap and pretty simple -
they have full-range inputs from your mixer, and they have outputs marked high and low (and sometimes mids) for your mains. There may be a couple switches to put in the right place and a crossover point knob, but they're not too bad.
Yes when I was testing out the speakers the other day to see how they sound with my amp I used the 50hz cut off and ran my iPhone thru the input on the amp and I was cranking them and they sound great! Played them for about 45 min to hr around 100db and sounded good! I just want to add bass. So let’s say I just suck it up and get powered tops nothing crazy what could you recommend?
And if I do just use my speakers and I buy an active crossover I don’t need to buy an amp for the highs and lows and mids? I would just run out of the mixer into the crossover. Out of the crossover into the amp?
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Came across Pevey subwoofers look really promising
Peavey VersArray 118
Peavey QW 118
What do you guys think?
What looks promising to you about them? Maybe if we understood your motivators.
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What looks promising to you about them? Maybe if we understood your motivators.
They seem to be a step up from them but I think they will be to confusing for me to use with my system cause I will need a active crossover and that’s not something I want to get into right. Ow and another amp so to much money!
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Yes when I was testing out the speakers the other day to see how they sound with my amp I used the 50hz cut off and ran my iPhone thru the input on the amp and I was cranking them and they sound great! Played them for about 45 min to hr around 100db and sounded good! I just want to add bass. So let’s say I just suck it up and get powered tops nothing crazy what could you recommend?
And if I do just use my speakers and I buy an active crossover I don’t need to buy an amp for the highs and lows and mids? I would just run out of the mixer into the crossover. Out of the crossover into the amp?
Frank, you go out of the board with the main signal to the crossover. From there you have a low out and a high out that go to your amp or amps, whichever is driving the tops or sub. You could also go out of the crossover to a powered sub. It's really quite simple, and on the crossover you will have a low & high volume knob to allow you to balance the subs & tops. Here is a cheap, simple crossover: https://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHCX2310?siid=7602&-4YmM2EKQ7g1Wku7Kn-9U9w9YQDiOOR-yoaAgKnEALw_wcB=
Regarding the sub choice I agree with those recommending a powered unit. I've used all 3 of those and they're all great. The SRX has a low input gain, so you have to drive it much harder to get the volume out of it, bit it delivers better than the others IMO. The KW118 would be a great choice as well, and would match up nicely with the newer K12.2 should you decide to upgrade your tops.
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lets nail down a couple things.
1. Your current tops are lower end MI grade and are not to the performance spec of ANY of the subs you are looking at.
2. Not knowing what amp you are using for the tops, I would will a bet there is a crossover built into that amp though. Many these days do. We need to know the amp model though. Even if it doesn't, it is not the end of the world.
3. If you get any of the self powered subs, they will have a crossover for them already built in.
My 2 pennies on your sub choices.
The Peavey models are good, but they are not to the same spec ( or at least pedigree ) as the other options. So while budget may prevail in this case, I would not invest in Peavey unless you truly know what you are doing. They are actually pretty good, but they are not as turn key as the others.
EV is probably the best budget sub you can get. They sound good and perform well, but they are cheaper for a reason. The ones I have seen used went thermal under fairly normal conditions. They just don't quite have " IT ".
The QSC is a favorite because of its output and name. I am not a fan of them. I think they are a one note wonder and they have a sound to them, which I don't care for. They do perform well though and will get rather loud.
The JBL SRX is certainly the best in this list for many reasons. It is pretty much exactly what it says it is. It sounds really good and it performs really well. I own a pair and I love them. The DSP on them is worth the money. That being said, it is the one I would go with if I had the money.
There are some other options that you did not list, that I wouldn't rule out. The JBL PRX line is no slouch and would be a great option. There is RCF and DB Technologies as other choices, as well as Yorkville and believe it or not, Mackie.
The newest Mackie SRM series stuff is pretty good, and given a budget that will afford 1 JBL SRX, you could acquire 2 of the Mackie's for a little bit more.
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Frank, you go out of the board with the main signal to the crossover. From there you have a low out and a high out that go to your amp or amps, whichever is driving the tops or sub. You could also go out of the crossover to a powered sub. It's really quite simple, and on the crossover you will have a low & high volume knob to allow you to balance the subs & tops. Here is a cheap, simple crossover: https://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHCX2310?siid=7602&-4YmM2EKQ7g1Wku7Kn-9U9w9YQDiOOR-yoaAgKnEALw_wcB=
Regarding the sub choice I agree with those recommending a powered unit. I've used all 3 of those and they're all great. The SRX has a low input gain, so you have to drive it much harder to get the volume out of it, bit it delivers better than the others IMO. The KW118 would be a great choice as well, and would match up nicely with the newer K12.2 should you decide to upgrade your tops.
Thank you! My thing is that the speakers are self contained it’s not like I’m putting the highs to the tweeter and mids and lows to the woofer in the speaker? I’m confused how I split the signal? From the crossover.
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lets nail down a couple things.
1. Your current tops are lower end MI grade and are not to the performance spec of ANY of the subs you are looking at.
2. Not knowing what amp you are using for the tops, I would will a bet there is a crossover built into that amp though. Many these days do. We need to know the amp model though. Even if it doesn't, it is not the end of the world.
3. If you get any of the self powered subs, they will have a crossover for them already built in.
My 2 pennies on your sub choices.
The Peavey models are good, but they are not to the same spec ( or at least pedigree ) as the other options. So while budget may prevail in this case, I would not invest in Peavey unless you truly know what you are doing. They are actually pretty good, but they are not as turn key as the others.
EV is probably the best budget sub you can get. They sound good and perform well, but they are cheaper for a reason. The ones I have seen used went thermal under fairly normal conditions. They just don't quite have " IT ".
The QSC is a favorite because of its output and name. I am not a fan of them. I think they are a one note wonder and they have a sound to them, which I don't care for. They do perform well though and will get rather loud.
The JBL SRX is certainly the best in this list for many reasons. It is pretty much exactly what it says it is. It sounds really good and it performs really well. I own a pair and I love them. The DSP on them is worth the money. That being said, it is the one I would go with if I had the money.
There are some other options that you did not list, that I wouldn't rule out. The JBL PRX line is no slouch and would be a great option. There is RCF and DB Technologies as other choices, as well as Yorkville and believe it or not, Mackie.
The newest Mackie SRM series stuff is pretty good, and given a budget that will afford 1 JBL SRX, you could acquire 2 of the Mackie's for a little bit more.
Yes I know they aren’t the top tier of speakers but theyy are decent and plus it’s what I have. I also have the alto Ts215 active.
But only one I can buy one more but I don’t think it will keep up with those subs and I think the RSX is better. Do you think the alto ts215 would be the way to go?
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Given that this is unlikely to be used as a long-term professional system, I'd suggest renting a sub. Day rate around here for a KW181 is $50/day.
If you absolutely must purchase a sub, I'd look at the Alto TSSUB18. It's $699 retail, and with any digging around, you can probably find a 10-20% discount coupon for use at Guitar Center, which lowers the price to around $600.
The TSSUB has L/R inputs and outputs. So, you could run the signal from your board out to the TSSUB, and then take the LPF output and run that to your amplifier for your tops. The sub would effectively do all of the crossover work.
Would require a few extra XLR cables, but might be the easiest method.
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They are barely mentioned here, but EV ETX-18SP do what I ask of them.
+1 on the ETX.
But for the original poster, rent or at least make a plan for what their "goal sound system" will look like. I'm guessing the Samson tops aren't part of anyone's five year plan.
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Yes I know they aren’t the top tier of speakers but theyy are decent and plus it’s what I have. I also have the alto Ts215 active.
But only one I can buy one more but I don’t think it will keep up with those subs and I think the RSX is better. Do you think the alto ts215 would be the way to go?
They are not any tier. They are simply a speaker you would not see anyone for hire show up with. If you find the sound acceptable then you ear is not trained to pick up different types of distortion.
You really need to decide what your goals are and not just to buy a sub. You came to a professional forum, not the house of DJ misinformation. Sorry if this is harsh.
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Hi Frank-
Watch out for The Anvil of Reality®.
If I understand correctly you want to provide some music for a relative's party. You own some equipment already and want to add a subwoofer. You're not especially technical and have time/budget constraints.
I'd suggest you rent. Everything. A pair of subs with 12" tops, speaker poles or stands... and use your DJ controller/mixer/PC as the input source. Keep the system in the same model line and brand, i.e. JBL SRX800 or EV ETX or Yamaha DSR/DXR, etc.
First this takes care of ALL your technical concerns - the manufacturer has done all that pesky science stuff for us. Second this will allow you to audition the equipment without further obligation; if you don't like it you just saved yourself a potential mistaken purchase. Third this helps make you look like a pro to your family or client - you'll go from setting it in place to making sound in a much shorter time than trying to kluge together a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
Finally, renting means you don't have to make a PURCHASE decision right this instant. It takes off some of the pressure and that will let you devote more attention to the music and presentation you'd like to give.
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Hi Frank-
Watch out for The Anvil of Reality®.
If I understand correctly you want to provide some music for a relative's party. You own some equipment already and want to add a subwoofer. You're not especially technical and have time/budget constraints.
I'd suggest you rent. Everything. A pair of subs with 12" tops, speaker poles or stands... and use your DJ controller/mixer/PC as the input source. Keep the system in the same model line and brand, i.e. JBL SRX800 or EV ETX or Yamaha DSR/DXR, etc.
First this takes care of ALL your technical concerns - the manufacturer has done all that pesky science stuff for us. Second this will allow you to audition the equipment without further obligation; if you don't like it you just saved yourself a potential mistaken purchase. Third this helps make you look like a pro to your family or client - you'll go from setting it in place to making sound in a much shorter time than trying to kluge together a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
Finally, renting means you don't have to make a PURCHASE decision right this instant. It takes off some of the pressure and that will let you devote more attention to the music and presentation you'd like to give.
hey guys i appreciate the advise i thought about renting also called a place! but then i realized i rather have my own. i figured i can use it for when i have parties and bbqs at the house! you see i am somewhat of a gear junkie. i love audio! i come from a home audio back round recently i started getting interested into pro audio gear and sound. i also did DIY builds. i dont do this for a living or make money off of it i do it as a hobby. i decided to look for a forum for help i found this place for advice and experience. i did installs and automation programming.
so on that note i decided to go with the EV ETX 18sp for now eventually i will upgrade my mains but for now ill start with what i got! i will definitely let you guys know what i think!
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so on that note i decided to go with the EV ETX 18sp for now eventually i will upgrade my mains but for now ill start with what i got! i will definitely let you guys know what i think!
Why that particular sub?
I'd recommend getting a sub that's got built in high pass capabilities, and unless I'm reading the specs incorrectly that sub does not.
I'd also recommend getting the largest sub you can transport. A single 18" sub does not put out a ton of sound. And near the pricepoint of that EV you can pick up a JBL SRX828sp.
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Why that particular sub?
I'd recommend getting a sub that's got built in high pass capabilities, and unless I'm reading the specs incorrectly that sub does not.
I'd also recommend getting the largest sub you can transport. A single 18" sub does not put out a ton of sound. And near the pricepoint of that EV you can pick up a JBL SRX828sp.
I went to Sam ash and I listen to the 2 subs
Qsc kw181
Ev ETX 18sp
Jbl SRX818SP
And I thought the ETX sounded the best ad I was able to get the best deal on that subwoofer like I said I won’t be doing big party’s or anything the party I will do in my will be around 45 50 ppl no more then 10ft-15ft away from the subwoofer and speakers so it shouldn’t be a problem. I ordered a new mixer mackie profx8 it has a HP built in. And a EQ. definitely made everything sound much better and a lot more control I have. I can also push the speakers much harder now that I have the HP. Once I get the subwoofer working with it it should sound pretty good. Deciding if I should get a crown or Samson amp that has crossover built in.
I also got a BBE sonic maxizer for fairly cheap so curious as to how it going to sound. But maybe it’s a gimmick will see. If I don’t like the ev I can swap it out for the jbl no problem but I didn’t feel or hear that much of a difference btw the ev and jbl. Jbl might get a tad louder but the ev sounded so good! My opinion. Hopefully I’ll get it next week and try it out in my house with my mains and let it rip and see what I can get out of it.
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I went to Sam ash and I listen to the 2 subs
Qsc kw181
Ev ETX 18sp
Jbl SRX818SP
And I thought the ETX sounded the best ad I was able to get the best deal on that subwoofer like I said I won’t be doing big party’s or anything the party I will do in my will be around 45 50 ppl no more then 10ft-15ft away from the subwoofer and speakers so it shouldn’t be a problem. I ordered a new mixer mackie profx8 it has a HP built in. And a EQ. definitely made everything sound much better and a lot more control I have. I can also push the speakers much harder now that I have the HP. Once I get the subwoofer working with it it should sound pretty good. Deciding if I should get a crown or Samson amp that has crossover built in.
I also got a BBE sonic maxizer for fairly cheap so curious as to how it going to sound. But maybe it’s a gimmick will see. If I don’t like the ev I can swap it out for the jbl no problem but I didn’t feel or hear that much of a difference btw the ev and jbl. Jbl might get a tad louder but the ev sounded so good! My opinion. Hopefully I’ll get it next week and try it out in my house with my mains and let it rip and see what I can get out of it.
Return the Sonic Maximizer. Don't even take it out of the box. It's awful. Psychologically you will think it works because it's louder when inserted. You can do the same with the level and a touch of compression.
You really should call Mike Pyle and get a price on that sub. Retail sucks.
BTW this is why I hate answering these threads. All the advice you received and you did what you wanted. Emotional validation isn't my strong suit.
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Return the Sonic Maximizer. Don't even take it out of the box. It's awful. Psychologically you will think it works because it's louder when inserted. You can do the same with the level and a touch of compression.
You really should call Mike Pyle and get a price on that sub. Retail sucks.
BTW this is why I hate answering these threads. All the advice you received and you did what you wanted. Emotional validation isn't my strong suit.
Yea that’s what I figured with the sonic maximizer. Prob will
I didn’t get the subs for retail cost. I got them discounted but the discount was better on the ev then the jbl. Well of course I’m going to do what I can afford and works best. I came here to have your guys thoughts of the subwoofer cause I figured you hear these things day in and day out. I listen to the subs at the store and liked the ev better. What was I suppose to do? The ev sounded deeper and smoother from what I heard. Grated when I get it in my hands I might not like it after I put it thru it’s paces then I will try the jbl. I like the jbl but I just liked the ev better. I prob could have even went with the ekx line and saved more but for the price I got the ETX was almost the price of the EXK. Who is mike? I could have rented but I rather own cause now I can use it for parties if I like it. Or just sell it off eventually. I’m here for help and experience with these. Yes I know my step up isn’t ideal but it’s not like I’m getting paid for this or anything I’m just playing music at my gf daughter baptism and I’m sure it will sound okay.
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I ordered a new mixer mackie profx8 it has a HP built in. And a EQ. definitely made everything sound much better and a lot more control I have. I can also push the speakers much harder now that I have the HP.
The HPF in that mixer is at the wrong point in the signal chain to do what you need to protect & improve the sound/headroom of your RSX115s (at least, without unnecessarily convoluted wiring hijinks, which, even if utilized would still result in a highly compromised outcome).
You definitely still need a crossover after the desk and before the amp feeding those speakers.
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I ordered a new mixer mackie profx8 it has a HP built in. And a EQ. definitely made everything sound much better and a lot more control I have. I can also push the speakers much harder now that I have the HP. Once I get the subwoofer working with it it should sound pretty good. Deciding if I should get a crown or Samson amp that has crossover built in.
I also got a BBE sonic maxizer for fairly cheap so curious as to how it going to sound. But maybe it’s a gimmick will see.
I'm not trying to be harsh but it's obvious from these statements that you don't really know exactly how this is all works. It doesn't matter if the sub you bought sounded the best if you're not going to set up the system properly. The HPF present on the channels of your mixer is of no use when setting up the system of subs and mids/highs. A BBE sonic maximizer is of no use then the sytem isn't going to set up properly to begin with.
At the very least you need to run your mixer outs to crossover. It can be an external crossover unit, or a crossover that's integrated into either the sub or the tops. Right now you have none of those options, as far as I can tell. You mention maybe purchasing a new amp with a built in crossover. The question there is will it provide through-put to the sub so that it's low-passed to work well with the main.
Typically manufacturers design their systems at this price point with the sub/top crossover integrated, so EV ETX subs and tops should work well together, QSC KW subs and tops, JBL SRX subs and tops, etc. I'm running JBL PRX712s over PRX718xlf subs. The mixer outs go to the subs. The sub handles the crossover duties and sends a high-passed signal to the tops. All of the engineering has been done by the manufacturer, you just plug cables in. This is the direction you should be looking to go in.
Sell all your tops and the amp and bring back the BBE. Buy the EV tops that match the sub. Done.
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The HPF in that mixer is at the wrong point in the signal chain to do what you need to protect & improve the sound/headroom of your RSX115s (at least, without unnecessarily convoluted wiring hijinks, which, even if utilized would still result in a highly compromised outcome).
You definitely still need a crossover after the desk and before the amp feeding those speakers.
I don’t get why tho if I use the HP on the mixer I send it to the mains and then I use the MON on the mixer and send the full signal to the subwoofer and use the subwoofers LP why wouldn’t that work. I also have a bit of EQ i can do to tam the highs mids and lows. Not trying to brush you off just trying to understand
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I'm not trying to be harsh but it's obvious from these statements that you don't really know exactly how this is all works. It doesn't matter if the sub you bought sounded the best if you're not going to set up the system properly. The HPF present on the channels of your mixer is of no use when setting up the system of subs and mids/highs. A BBE sonic maximizer is of no use then the sytem isn't going to set up properly to begin with.
At the very least you need to run your mixer outs to crossover. It can be an external crossover unit, or a crossover that's integrated into either the sub or the tops. Right now you have none of those options, as far as I can tell. You mention maybe purchasing a new amp with a built in crossover. The question there is will it provide through-put to the sub so that it's low-passed to work well with the main.
Typically manufacturers design their systems at this price point with the sub/top crossover integrated, so EV ETX subs and tops should work well together, QSC KW subs and tops, JBL SRX subs and tops, etc. I'm running JBL PRX712s over PRX718xlf subs. The mixer outs go to the subs. The sub handles the crossover duties and sends a high-passed signal to the tops. All of the engineering has been done by the manufacturer, you just plug cables in. This is the direction you should be looking to go in.
Sell all your tops and the amp and bring back the BBE. Buy the EV tops that match the sub. Done.
I’m going to see what I can get for my speakers. All this gear I have I use in my theater at home. Maybe I’ll just buy a cross over and see if I can figure this out. What cross over do you recommend I buy that’s not to expensive and easy to understand. Thanks for your help. I know it’s all easy if I just had tops to go with the subwoofer cause then there nothing to really figure out just plug and play pretty much. I don’t have the money to go and spend 3000$ on new speakers for a 3 hr party where I will be badly blasting it. I played with the idea of the heat I have and how to set it up to sound best.
I can come out of the mains on the mixer to the amp then speakers and use the HP.
then come out of the MON channel straight to the subwoofer and use the internal crossover in the subwoofer for the LP.
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Grab a pair of ELX-200 10p (call Mike Pyle!). They will set you back about a grand.
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I don’t get why tho if I use the HP on the mixer I send it to the mains and then I use the MON on the mixer and send the full signal to the subwoofer and use the subwoofers LP why wouldn’t that work. I also have a bit of EQ i can do to tam the highs mids and lows. Not trying to brush you off just trying to understand
As is clearly shown in the block diagram in the manual, the HP on each channel occurs upstream of the Mon send, so by the time the signal gets to the Mon send in your proposed usage it's already had the lows cut out.
That's why you'd need to do some wiring shenanigans as I already said.
Basically you'd have to split the input signal into two of the channels on the desk - HP one and send it to your amp for the main speakers, then don't HP the other and send that to your bass bin. (If you want to preserve stereo information from your source material, you're therefore now up to 4 inputs used - L+R mains and L+R subs.)
Remember you then have to adjust both (or all 4) faders in parallel to maintain the sub-main balance any time you want to adjust volume.
Remember also that as the HP on the Mackie is almost certainly a different slope and likely a different frequency from the built in LP on the sub, you'll get a far from perfect transition between the two, using a kludge like this.
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The HPF on the Mackie will not work for all the reasons David Morison lays out in his post. A properly designed system crossover has purposefully selected frequency points, filter types and out of band EQ to ensure that the subs and tops work well together at the crossover point. Using randomly selected HP and LP filters may or may not work well at all, particularly if they over- or under-lap by a great deal.
The easiest solution is to get a simple analog crossover, a used one in decent condition will be fine.
Not that I'm a huge fan of guitar center, but they have a selection of used units:
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Crossovers.gc
David Winner's recommendation on the ELX200-10p is spot on as well.
I’m going to see what I can get for my speakers. All this gear I have I use in my theater at home. Maybe I’ll just buy a cross over and see if I can figure this out. What cross over do you recommend I buy that’s not to expensive and easy to understand. Thanks for your help. I know it’s all easy if I just had tops to go with the subwoofer cause then there nothing to really figure out just plug and play pretty much. I don’t have the money to go and spend 3000$ on new speakers for a 3 hr party where I will be badly blasting it. I played with the idea of the heat I have and how to set it up to sound best.
I can come out of the mains on the mixer to the amp then speakers and use the HP.
then come out of the MON channel straight to the subwoofer and use the internal crossover in the subwoofer for the LP.
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I posted this back on page 3, but here it is again:
https://goo.gl/o5SVRy
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If you took purchase of the EV subs, I would not go investing in all kinds of peripheral gear. You do not have to use a crossover between the subs and the tops. It won't be 100% correct that way, but it is not a requirement. I would sell your tops and invest in the like model EV mains at this point. This will give you the best results and keep you within a moderate budget. I have seen and found over the years that if you buy a bandaid part ( to save money or get by ), you simply find a way to keep making that work and you forgo purchases that will take you to the next level.
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If you took purchase of the EV subs, I would not go investing in all kinds of peripheral gear. You do not have to use a crossover between the subs and the tops. It won't be 100% correct that way, but it is not a requirement.
One issue I see with not running a crossover it the operator trying to get more bass out of the system and then blowing the woofers in the tops because they're running full range. Buying a sub $100 analog crossover (could be $50 used) is not a big purchase and will provide a cleaner overall sound and hopefully eliminate that type of user error.
I'd bet everyone agrees that matching tops are the best solution.
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I equate running the tops full range as being simply that. Basically he loses the benefits and protections of a crossover and the limited bandwidth, but what do you typically do with a 12" speaker on sticks with no subs. You run them full range. The tops likely go down close to 50hz and by then the sub will be doing some good work. He is less likely to try and get some thump and bump with the sub inline than without it. So I don't see any reason to go out and spend $80-100 on something that only adds marginal results and will have little to no resale value later when he goes to upgrade.
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I have a used Furman analog 2 way stereo, 3 way mono crossover I'd sell you cheap. After you get it, I'll talk you through setting it up on the phone.
I apologize if this is against the rules.
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Right now the Yamaha DXS18 has a $200 manufacturer rebate. It does have a full crossover with selectable frequencies.
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So I don't see any reason to go out and spend $80-100 on something that only adds marginal results and will have little to no resale value later when he goes to upgrade.
Highpassing the main speakers is as important as having a highpass on the subwoofer - protection from over-excursion, and an increase in headroom. Midbass cones flapping around trying to do bass doesn't sound good.
Chris
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I posted this back on page 3, but here it is again:
https://goo.gl/o5SVRy
I was expecting sometimg more sassy from a page 3 article... ;D
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okay I’m going to try a crossover but I definitely have questions on how to set this thing up.
Okay so my list is
Behringer CX2310 Super-X Pro
DBX 223xs or 234xs
Samson S-3
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Anyone know when the new DZR / DXS XLF Series comes out?
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The crossover is pretty simple. In 2-way mode:
Input - input gain. Set this so your output on your mixer plays nicely with the volume of your speakers (no clipping).
Low cut - cuts extremely low frequencies to protect speakers. Your sub already does this.
Frequency - the frequency at which the crossover is centered. Everything below goes to the sub. Everything above goes to the tops. Set this to 100hz.
Output gains - independent level for each output. You can use this to balance the level of the sub to the tops.
Set everything on left and right the same.
Left in-left main output from the mixer--> crossover
Right in-right main output from the mixer--> crossover
Left low out---> subwoofer input
Left high out---> left top amp channel input
Right low out---> subwoofer input (if the sub has L+R inputs)
Right high out---> right top amp channel input
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Subwoofer is coming Friday
Can someone tell me out of the 3 which one is a good one
I hear the Samson is really good
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Subwoofer is coming Friday
Can someone tell me out of the 3 which one is a good one
I hear the Samson is really good
Any of those will work fine. They're all similar quality with similar features, the Samson's got some extras (phase, limiter, delay) but in this case I think simpler is better.
FWIW, I'm not sure that Samson anything is really good. They are not a big player in the pro audio (or even MI audio) world.
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Any of those will work fine. They're all similar quality with similar features, the Samson's got some extras (phase, limiter, delay) but in this case I think simpler is better.
FWIW, I'm not sure that Samson anything is really good. They are not a big player in the pro audio (or even MI audio) world.
Just ordered Behringer Super-X Pro CX2310 let’s see how this goes
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PLONK-
Forum participants familiar with Ye Olde UseNET will understand.
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PLONK-
Forum participants familiar with Ye Olde UseNET will understand.
You're making me feel old Tim :)
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You're making me feel old Tim :)
How did we get anything done (successfully) in the 70's and early 80's without this interthingy ?
Don't know about you, but I made a lot of noise, and some good cash.... 8)
Chris.
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How did we get anything done (successfully) in the 70's and early 80's without this interthingy ?
Don't know about you, but I made a lot of noise, and some good cash.... 8)
Chris.
Same here.
Actually, bar bands in this area are still making the same money as we were back then. $150 a night, 2-3 nights a week, was damn good money when I was a kid. There were also far more venues that featured bands back then. It was a little heartbreaking when the DJs started taking over, cops started handing out DUIs the baby boomers grew up. [/swerve]
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Same here.
Actually, bar bands in this area are still making the same money as we were back then. $150 a night, 2-3 nights a week, was damn good money when I was a kid. There were also far more venues that featured bands back then. It was a little heartbreaking when the DJs started taking over, cops started handing out DUIs the baby boomers grew up. [/swerve]
$150 a night per musician or for the whole band? In Northeast OH the A List bar bands make 10 times that.
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$150 a night per musician or for the whole band? In Northeast OH the A List bar bands make 10 times that.
$150 a night each.
Typical mid level bands in NW Ohio get $600 a night. That's the same pay we were making in the 80s and 90s. Festivals pay more.
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one of our local venues pays $250/night which normally has 3-4 bands+sound man. I made more than that at this same club 20 years ago and we played the entire night. These bands play original material with occasional cover. Most do it for the love of music and don't care if they make money.
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one of our local venues pays $250/night which normally has 3-4 bands+sound man. I made more than that at this same club 20 years ago and we played the entire night. These bands play original material with occasional cover. Most do it for the love of music and don't care if they make money.
And that screw's the pooch for the rest. Live sound around here has largely dried up. I haven't done a "bar band" in well over 25 years now. Back then it was 6 or 700 for Thursday-Friday-Saturday. I went Corpy and Reception Hall to eke out a few more dollars.
Chris.
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$150 a night each.
Typical mid level bands in NW Ohio get $600 a night. That's the same pay we were making in the 80s and 90s. Festivals pay more.
You ever play Bar 145 in Toledo? Do you know Lara? I am just down the road in Avon Lake, have we had this discussion before?
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You ever play Bar 145 in Toledo? Do you know Lara? I am just down the road in Avon Lake, have we had this discussion before?
I haven't played there yet. One of my bands is talking to them. I live in Bryan just off 6. I play mostly in the animal clubs around here (Moose, Eagles, Amvets) and then several clubs in Angola and Fort Wayne Indiana. I don't get to Toledo often.
I see you are close to Sandusky. I shot fireworks for Zambelli at Cedar Point for years before I joined the Army. My buddy still shoots all their shows.
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I haven't played there yet. One of my bands is talking to them. I live in Bryan just off 6. I play mostly in the animal clubs around here (Moose, Eagles, Amvets) and then several clubs in Angola and Fort Wayne Indiana. I don't get to Toledo often.
I see you are close to Sandusky. I shot fireworks for Zambelli at Cedar Point for years before I joined the Army. My buddy still shoots all their shows.
We did all the installs at the Bar 145 locations and I was the house guy in Avon. The SRX systems do a great job.
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We did all the installs at the Bar 145 locations and I was the house guy in Avon. The SRX systems do a great job.
I've run a few different SRX rigs, and I've always been impressed. I'm still debating SRX, JTR, DSL for a bigger rig for festivals. The price vs. Performance of the SRX rig is hard to beat.
Do you guys run sound at the Bar 145 locations?
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I've run a few different SRX rigs, and I've always been impressed. I'm still debating SRX, JTR, DSL for a bigger rig for festivals. The price vs. Performance of the SRX rig is hard to beat.
Do you guys run sound at the Bar 145 locations?
Lara is the house engineer in Toledo and she is awesome and a good friend of ours. Avon and Kent are closed. We occasionally work in Dayton but have not worked Columbus location.