Post by: Adam Whetham on January 20, 2010, 05:04:36 PM
Right now they have a 12 year old Barco 8200 projector thats at End of life. We have one more lamp and after that we haven't been able to source anything, not to mention there's been calls for HD movies to be played/higher resolution power point's displayed during presenters/events.
Right now I know about Barco and Christie. What other Projectors would have a nice long support and life span? what else should we be looking at?? is their that much of a difference between 2k and 4k chips?? (still doing some research into this)
Post by: John Birchman, CTS on January 20, 2010, 06:42:33 PM
Here is some more reading if you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema
There seems to be a mix of 2K and 4K projectors out there now, however most things are being done in 4K now as far as major film production, and will likely be gaining ground as the standard within the next few years. If the money is there for 4K, try and get it. Also, 3D is becoming more prevalent, so perhaps consideration should be made on a 3D capable projector, for future expansion.
John
Post by: Brad Weber on January 20, 2010, 11:31:03 PM
Movies open up a whole new area with licensing, so be sure to consider that before bothering to try to plan specifically for it. Also keep in mind that "HD" and digital cinema are two different things, if the concern is "HD" (720p, 10808i or 1080p) content and computer based presentations, then a 1920x1080 or similar native resolution projector might actually be a better fit than a 2k or 4k digital cinema projector. It also might open up more options on models and manufacturers for the projector. And considering that you would be replacing a 2,000 ANSI lumen (on 120VAC), 756x556 native resolution projector, that would still allow for a significant improvement.
Do you have any criteria as far as projector brightness or budget? Are you trying to fill an existing screen or produce a certain image size from a specific projector location? What are your sources for the projector?
Post by: Adam Whetham on January 21, 2010, 12:31:52 AM
40 foot proscenium in this PAC. here is a pic with the screen down. Perforated for speakers to be wheeled in behind the stage.
Throw is about 90ish feet. I haven't done an exact measure on the screen but since the stage is 40 feet wide, with the black on the sides it seems to be about 38 feet wide? It was made so it would do 16:9 movies.
Video inputs include would include Computer (VGA and DVI), DVD, and blueray right now. There has been talk of the local indie theater renting the place to show movie's, so the thought of Digital Cinema is a big interest, although the budget isn't sure. They would like to be a little forward planning this time though.
They already do movies there so licensing is known about, they go through the correct channels and get the rights. ETC.
Brightness was hoping to have something in the 8-10k range so that some house lights can be on and the video can still be seen for pre-show advertising of upcoming events.
The other question that came up is 4:3 movies to 16:9 movies. Are their optics that let you do both without climbing out to projector mounted to the ceiling to change the lense?
Motorized Douser was also a subject brought up. althought not necessary, a nice option to have for later expansion.
Thank you for the links Brad and John, I'm reading up to get a better idea of what to bring to the board of director's and what options would fit our needs. Then we should be able to go out and look for bids with some technical requirements we've decided upon.
Post by: Ken Freeman on January 21, 2010, 12:55:52 AM
I just installed a Christie's 10 K in a very similar space. These are easy to take care of and with the next generaation of lamps are pretty cheap to operate.
http://www.christiedigital.com/AMEN/Products/RoadsterHD10KM. htm
These are full HD and can be used with a whole variety of inputs without having to get a $5,000 box.
Ken
Post by: Andrew Welker on January 21, 2010, 09:07:05 AM
| Adam Whetham wrote on Wed, 20 January 2010 22:31 |
The other question that came up is 4:3 movies to 16:9 movies. Are their optics that let you do both without climbing out to projector mounted to the ceiling to change the lense? |
Most of the time its not the lens that determines your aspect ratio, its the LCD panel/DLP chip inside the projector. Most modern projectors have several different aspect ratio settings, ranging from fixed 16:9, to just displaying whatever is coming in straight through without scaling, to stretching to fit the native resolution of the projector. In your case, it would just be a matter of making sure the projector is set up correctly in the installation phase.
Post by: Brad Weber on January 21, 2010, 10:59:13 AM
I always ask about the movie aspect as many people are thinking 16:9 format HD rather than 2.39 or 2.35:1 CinemaScope and 1.85:1 Academy formats or the related higher resolution sources that are defined in te DCI and more likely to be part of actual digital cinemas. Nor is achieving the very low light levels, viewing angles, etc. associated with a digital cinema always practical in a multipurpose space.
One consideration may be that while "HD" is 16:9 format, typically either 1280x720 or 1920x1080 resolution, many common computer sources are 4:3, 5:4 or 16:10 format resolutions. It is usually no problem to show a 'narrower' format on a wider format projector, for example displaying a 4:3 image on a 16:9 native projector just leaves a black column down each side, which can probably be masked with your curtains if desired. Doing this may require some scaling, either in the projector or externally, for many common resolutions but that would primarily be upscaling. A more common issue is 16:10 format computer images versus 16:9 film images. If HD video is the primary source than a 1920x1080 native resolution projector may be the best choice. However, where computer images are the priority then my personal preference is to use a 1920x1200, 16:10 format projector as that allows direct display of 1920x1200 computer resolutions and full screen projection of any 16:10 computer resolutions while also supporting native 1920x1080 video with minimal letterboxing at the top and bottom.
The projector brightness might also be something to really think about. The Digital Cinema Initiative specifies a goal of 14ftL from the screen but that also assumes very low ambient light levels, levels that are often too low for other uses. Thus I typically try to get significantly greater image brightness off the screen, maybe 2 to 3 times that, for a multipurpose venue like yours where you do appear to have good ambient light control but likely have to support note taking during presentations, lighting of presenters on stage, etc. Assuming an approximately 900 to 1,000 square foot screen (40' width and 16:9 or 16:10 format) and a screen gain of 1.0, that would be a 12,600 to 14,000 lumen projector for digital cinema and a 25,000 to 40,000 lumen projector for multipurpose use. And that is not accounting for any losses due to lamp life or any lens losses. It is not that a lower output projector will not work, your current setup proves that, but at least in what you look at as a goal you may want to look at higher output projectors. Barco, Christie and Digital Projection all offer 1920x1080 native projectors rated 20,000 lumens and up while Digital Projection also has 1920x1200 native resolution models rated at 20,000 lumens or more.
Post by: Adam Whetham on January 21, 2010, 06:03:16 PM
I'm guessing 85% of usage would be movies on DVD/Blueray and the other percentage would be Powerpoint and other video input.
Thats some good info to think about Brad. I actually may have been off with 16:9 because the two lenses for the 8200 now are for 4:3 and the wider format. whether thats cinemascope or not I'm not sure, but the 35MM we have will do Cinemascope So one would assume thats what the screen would be designed for. I didn't know that was a different output than 16:9. Good info to know.
Thanks for the reccomendation on Lumen output. I was guessing something in the 10,000 plus range, but I'm worried about being out of date to soon again. So a higher range projector that can display in 16:9 and 4:3 in consumer HD is what we most likely will be looking at.
Post by: Craig Hauber on January 23, 2010, 07:27:47 PM
Barco makes a 2K cinema-grade unit called a DP-1200 that I looked at in a theater similar to yours that looked amazing. However it did want a dark cinema type environment.
There was also the Barco FLM-HD14 that looked really good, I don't know if 14k would be bright enough for you but it was a native HD multi-input presentation type projector.
Other than those everything else was in the 4500 lumen range that I saw.
Post by: Todd Cooke on January 26, 2010, 10:29:40 AM
http://www.digitalprojection.com/
We had a demo of the Titan 1080p-600m and was blown away. I had also demo'd Christie, Sony, and Sanyo. The Titan was the best fit for me by far. I have a 400 seat house with an 80' throw to a 31' screen.
Now if I can just get my parent company to loosen the belt a little and let me purchase it......
Cheers,
Todd
Post by: Adam Whetham on January 26, 2010, 11:22:24 AM
I'll have to take a look. what was your uses?? Just movies? or multi-media also?
Post by: Todd Cooke on January 26, 2010, 11:30:21 AM
Post by: Adam Whetham on January 26, 2010, 06:37:03 PM
Right now we have the 8200 mounted outside the projection booth from a ceiling mount. which then has an RGBHV 5 BNC cable going in and into a Barco input switcher that lives in a rack with the DVD players and such.
Would we be looking at an extron/altinex/crestron unit or something of the sorts?? It would be nice to have a wall control for play and pause etc down in the audio booth or in the concession booth so running upstairs isn't necessary.
Post by: Kevin Maxwell AKA TheMAXX on February 07, 2010, 05:01:43 PM
| Adam Whetham wrote on Thu, 21 January 2010 00:31 |
There has been talk of the local indie theater renting the place to show movie's, so the thought of Digital Cinema is a big interest, although the budget isn't sure. They would like to be a little forward planning this time though. They already do movies there so licensing is known about, they go through the correct channels and get the rights. ETC. |
I just did 4 live musicals in a theater that is also used for movies. They actually use film projectors. But the thing I wanted to comment on is they sell your typical movie snacks (popcorn, soda, candy). What a mess this makes of the theater. People were spilling everything on the floor and on the seats. To clean up they were using an electric leaf blower to blow all of this mess to the front of the theater and into the pit. We had all of out amps and wireless receivers in the orchestra pit. I had to stop the person one day from blowing all of the junk around. I am saying all of this because it looks like you have a rally nice venue there and if they open it up to someone to use as a true movie theater you will want to keep the mess it can make in mind. I really hated sitting there and having my feet sticking to the floor when I tried to move them.
Post by: Adam Whetham on February 07, 2010, 08:01:15 PM
| Kevin Maxwell AKA TheMAXX wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 16:01 |
I just did 4 live musicals in a theater that is also used for movies. They actually use film projectors. But the thing I wanted to comment on is they sell your typical movie snacks (popcorn, soda, candy). What a mess this makes of the theater. People were spilling everything on the floor and on the seats. To clean up they were using an electric leaf blower to blow all of this mess to the front of the theater and into the pit. We had all of out amps and wireless receivers in the orchestra pit. I had to stop the person one day from blowing all of the junk around. I am saying all of this because it looks like you have a rally nice venue there and if they open it up to someone to use as a true movie theater you will want to keep the mess it can make in mind. I really hated sitting there and having my feet sticking to the floor when I tried to move them. |
They already do sell the same things. And Ironically they do the same thing with the leaf blower... after having to clean up without it I will tell you its much easier. But we don't blow it into the pit in the front (They're a 4ft pit under the floor in the front)
No sticky floors here. they get mopped. if soda gets spilled.
Post by: Kevin Maxwell AKA TheMAXX on February 07, 2010, 11:49:58 PM
| Adam Whetham wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 20:01 | ||
They already do sell the same things. And Ironically they do the same thing with the leaf blower... after having to clean up without it I will tell you its much easier. But we don't blow it into the pit in the front (They're a 4ft pit under the floor in the front) No sticky floors here. they get mopped. if soda gets spilled. |
They also mop at the place I was doing these shows but the floor is still sticky. So I guess they just don’t do a good job mopping up. A person sitting 2 seats away from my mix position spilled an entire large cup of soda onto her chair totally soaking it. I told the person cleaning up afterwards and he did nothing at all about it. But then he started using the leaf blower and proceeded to blow all sorts of debris towards the mix position. I had to stop him and tell him not to do that.
Post by: Adam Whetham on February 08, 2010, 06:34:09 PM
| Kevin Maxwell AKA TheMAXX wrote on Sun, 07 February 2010 22:49 |
They also mop at the place I was doing these shows but the floor is still sticky. So I guess they just don’t do a good job mopping up. A person sitting 2 seats away from my mix position spilled an entire large cup of soda onto her chair totally soaking it. I told the person cleaning up afterwards and he did nothing at all about it. But then he started using the leaf blower and proceeded to blow all sorts of debris towards the mix position. I had to stop him and tell him not to do that. |
That might be different. We only sell 20oz Bottles. so we don't really have Horrible spills.
They were looking at fountain soda, but they decided against it for this reason.