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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Frederik Rosenkjær on February 16, 2011, 03:55:35 AM
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Inspired by the "Too much bass"-thread in the SUB-forum, I thought it'd be interesting to shed some light on the differences there most likely is between our individual experiences of hearing.
So - do you have a particular frequency range that most often annoys your ears?
Personally, I find 2-3 kHz (the "gak") most troublesome, both when mixing myself and especially when attending other concerts. I must have a lower threshold for pain in that range than some if not most sound engineers, because I very often find vocals and guitars painfully loud right about there, when not mixing the show myself. Also the 'beam of death' from most guitar amps is not a friend of mine.
But I have no problem at all with 4kHz, which is an area I often hear others complain about. I rarely find annoyances there, not in other people's shows nor sound sources hiding under my own faders.
At one theater gig I was setting up for, I was playing a few tones at, what I considered to be, very moderate levels. When around 800Hz a stage tech who was in the room commented on how painfully loud that was, while it was very far from annoying me, while he didn't seem too troubled with 2-3kHz.
Btw. my hearing checks out fine at the ear specialist.
What are your thoughts and experiences of this?
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I find too much "sizzle" makes my ears tire quicker and go into protection.
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10K.
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While 4Kish can get painful, I find that between 100-200Hz the sounds tends to "pile up" and get all mushy.
You need to take steps to keep this area under control or else the lower bass (below 100Hz) will not sound as defined.
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While 4Kish can get painful, I find that between 100-200Hz the sounds tends to "pile up" and get all mushy.
You need to take steps to keep this area under control or else the lower bass (below 100Hz) will not sound as defined.
160Hz seems be a favorite on GEQs for 'dumping' in monitor situations, based on observation.
3-4KHz definitely can bring the 'icepick'.
-my 160hz worth
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250Hz and 1kHz.
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6.4kHz & 10KhZ
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10K.
Dude I just shot soda out of my nose....
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Anything that's not supposed to be there;.
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At loud concerts 1-3 kHz and somehow it always sound better through my ear buds. More intelligible and spectral balanced.
When I'm mixing myself 250 - 600 Hz. Not because It's to loud, but I tend to be over sensitive for room modes or any other standing waves in this area. This is very subtle and not be confused with feedback.
Regards,
Merlijn
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I love hating 400hz. :P
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WOW-with a few more replies we should have all the freq covered. I haven't seen 534.36Hz mentioned yet
I remember an article a couple of years ago about a local church in which the designer had "gotten rid of all the bad freq" in the design.
I wonder what freq he got rid of.
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Interesting question (although somewhat silly).
As for me, I quite like 2k5 and 3k15 and very rarely pull them out. 160 to 630 seems to bug me most, but that's likely a product of the rooms in which I'm mixing (possibly a product of rooms modes). Outdoors, 800 is irritating.
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3.15k - 4k and sometimes around 6k always kills me. It is very seldom it doesn't get at least a wee notch out.
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Anything that's not supposed to be there;.
lol best answer yet
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Everyone knows that in every room, for every style of music, and for every rig your mixing on, a smiley face :) EQ curve sounds the best.
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Anything there is too much of. Although, I tend to be a little sensitive to those upper mids, like 2.5k - 4k, more so, the 2.5k, it's possible there is too much of it some times. I also really hate not having enough of some part of the spectrum. Hear too many mixes completely shot to hell because of the lack of content between 90 and 800. I feel like that is the "power" range in the spectrum.
Interesting thread, I like it
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Assuming the system is tuned right and reasonably flat a la impulse response tuning, 125, 250, 2.5kHz seem to be the faders that see the most action in my experience. On monitor EQ's anything goes.............
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I'd say pick your speaker system first, include all its inherent strengths/weaknesses, and you will have your most annoying problems. For this reason, one man's annoying frequencies are not necessarily another's.
Address this with proper system tuning, channel EQ, compression, de-essing, whatever it takes, and the problem magically goes away.
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Depends on system, genre and acoustics. But most often on my rig 160-250 needs a little "touch up" cut, and also 2.5-3.15 can be a little nasty. Often the 160-250 stays as tuned, sometimes some of the 2.5-3.15 cut gets replaced by dynamic EQ or de-essers when the crowd affects the acoustics, when you need to "cut through" without being too nasty. Also depends how much time I have for sound check, many parameters are constantly adjusted during gig.
Smaller line arrays I rather often think need less 3-400, 800 and 2-4k. Just a little touch up can do so much on these systems, even if you often lack "physics" in the rig.
// Gustav
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Be very careful with the 6th slider-thingie over from the right........
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Be very careful with the 6th slider-thingie over from the right........
6.3K ? ;)
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Used to be 2.5ish, but I evolved to 630esque.
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160Hz seems be a favorite on GEQs for 'dumping' in monitor situations, based on observation.
3-4KHz definitely can bring the 'icepick'.
-my 160hz worth
160 to to 315 : that pass-band is prime real-estate that wants to be occupied by everything. a vast majority of indoor rooms and gyms i have been to compound this "problem region" a lot.
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lol best answer yet
I seem to like a ""way too much" problem" range in the 35-40hz area. It usually makes me smile actually.
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1.6k and 2k.
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The ones actually caused by speaker response.
I also have a soft spot for the squeals where a singer palms the mic in a way that I hadn't thought of. Usually like 600-2k.
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The ones that most often bug me,regardless of the system, are ~80Hz and ~7kHz.
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2.5k always sounds better pulled down, but sounds like crap once it's missing