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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Frederik Rosenkjær on March 30, 2017, 11:33:35 AM
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What is the situation with getting Dante on newer laptops that don't feature an Ethernet port?
A know Dante Virtual Soundcard works over Thunderbolt on Macs, but does it also work on Thunderbolt via USB-C on a Dell XPS laptop f.inst.? Because I assume it still won't work via USB adaptors?
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What is the situation with getting Dante on newer laptops that don't feature an Ethernet port?
A know Dante Virtual Soundcard works over Thunderbolt on Macs, but does it also work on Thunderbolt via USB-C on a Dell XPS laptop f.inst.? Because I assume it still won't work via USB adaptors?
I have not done a ton of channels of recording but regularly use a generic USB3 to to Ethernet on my ultrabook. USB 3 and USB-C Thunderbolt have a ton of bandwidth. DVS, R Remote, and Dante Controller all work great. The Audinate FAQs does say only official Apple Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapters are supported though.
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Slight topic swerve but does anyone know if there is a technological reason that Dante Controller can't work over wifi for management and routing? I can understand no latency monitoring, but man it would be nice to just do a little patching without having to find a port and hardwire in.
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I've used a cheap usb3 combined hub and ethernet interface (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00U5LBWWE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) with DVS and it's always worked fine.
Slight topic swerve but does anyone know if there is a technological reason that Dante Controller can't work over wifi for management and routing? I can understand no latency monitoring, but man it would be nice to just do a little patching without having to find a port and hardwire in.
You can, as of a recent version.
Can Dante operate over a Wi-Fi network?
No. While possible in principle, the practical limitations of current wireless technology (802.11a/b/g/n) render reliable audio performance, with ultra-low latency unachievable. For this reason, Dante Virtual Soundcard and Dante Via will not recognize wireless connections for audio data.
However, you can use Dante Controller to control and configure the Dante network over a Wi-Fi connection. Dante Controller must be version 3.10 or higher for Wi-Fi support.
To enable this feature:
Open the Configure Dante Interfaces dialog.
Uncheck 'Use shared Dante interface'.
Select your wireless adapter.
The wireless adaptor must be connected to the Dante network.
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Yeah I use a generic usb3 to ethernet and it works fine with dvs and via. I've just ordered a usbC one to see if I can run 2 at the same time, and have via and dvs going together
It just shows up as a gigabit network connection, so dante shouldn't care that its a usb one, as it just sees it as a network connection.
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Thanks for your replies!
So maybe it was just USB2 that wasn't usable...
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Thanks for your replies!
So maybe it was just USB2 that wasn't usable...
The bandwidth of USB 2.0 is only 480Mbps. Dante need to see a full gigabit to work right at full sample rates. USB 3.0 is a 5 gigabit per second bandwidth.
I've used a couple of different USB3.0 to gigabit Ethernet adapters and they work fine.
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The bandwidth of USB 2.0 is only 480Mbps. Dante need to see a full gigabit to work right at full sample rates. USB 3.0 is a 5 gigabit per second bandwidth.
You can run 48ch of Dante on 100MB ethernet, although 1GB is always recommended.
Mac
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OK, Perhaps there is more to be discussed on this subject.
I've got a late 2016 MacBook Pro in front of me, I've tried two different USB-C hubs with gigabit ethernet and DVS only partially works. I can receive audio into the 2016 machine, but it seemingly will not transmit audio onto the network. My test setup is as follows:
Late 2106 MBP with USB-C hub (Anker and J5Create versions)
Switch
Mid 2012 MBP with a good ol' fashioned built in ethernet port. (this machine is has no issue network audio in or out)
Each machine had DVS outs patched one-to-one to the other machine in controller. Each machine is using Waves Tracks Live to monitor Dante input and iTunes for output (with mac system audio set to Dante, naturally)
What is interesting is that if I look at the Transmit tab of the 2016 machine's device view in DVS, it shows green signal markers, but when I look at the Receive tab go the 2012 machine in DVS, the signal marker remains grey.
Anyone care to weigh in?
Thanks in advance !
- Jeremy
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Use your full real name before anyone can respond.
Explained here (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,234.0.html)
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Use your full real name before anyone can respond.
Explained here (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,234.0.html)
Should be all fixed now... somehow missed that.
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What is the clock source on your network? Could you post a screenshot of the Clock status and Routing tabs with everything expanded? I'd be very surprised if the network hardware can allow communication in one direction only.
Also what is the switch?
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What is the clock source on your network? Could you post a screenshot of the Clock status and Routing tabs with everything expanded? I'd be very surprised if the network hardware can allow communication in one direction only.
Also what is the switch?
The clock source is Dante as the only things on the network right now are the two Macs, therefore no real clock sync.. I'm suspectful of this, but then again i have two way audio on the 2012 machine.
The switch is an HP Procurve 1410-8G that has been Dante faithful for years.
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The clock source is Dante as the only things on the network right now are the two Macs, therefore no real clock sync.. I'm suspectful of this, but then again i have two way audio on the 2012 machine.
The switch is an HP Procurve 1410-8G that has been Dante faithful for years.
That's almost certainly your problem. DVS cannot be a clock master, so this kind of config is not supported. If you used Dante VIA on one or both machines it should work.
I'm actually surprised you've got any audio flowing at all, but have never tried it myself as it was always described as a no go.
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That's almost certainly your problem. DVS cannot be a clock master, so this kind of config is not supported. If you used Dante VIA on one or both machines it should work.
I'm actually surprised you've got any audio flowing at all, but have never tried it myself as it was always described as a no go.
OK, I'm going to go drag my QL1 out of its case now... I'll report back.
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OK, I'm going to go drag my QL1 out of its case now... I'll report back.
Richard,
BINGO. I'm ashamed that I didn't catch that to begin with. I guess I was thrown off the trail by the one machine working no problem and somewhat expecting to have trouble with the new mac and the USB-C situation.
Thanks!
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BINGO. I'm ashamed that I didn't catch that to begin with. I guess I was thrown off the trail by the one machine working no problem and somewhat expecting to have trouble with the new mac and the USB-C situation.
Given what I've always thought to be true, I think I'd get thrown as well. I was always sure there would be no way this would work at all. Still good to know you've got some USB-C adapters working. I've never had a problem with either the official Apple thunderbolt one, or an assortment of USB3 ones.
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Given what I've always thought to be true, I think I'd get thrown as well. I was always sure there would be no way this would work at all. Still good to know you've got some USB-C adapters working. I've never had a problem with either the official Apple thunderbolt one, or an assortment of USB3 ones.
Yeah, Audinate has been very cagey on the compatibility of various ethernet adaptors. There is nothing what so ever on their site about USB-C/Thunderbolt 3. I spent some time at their booth at Infocomm a few weeks ago grilling them about this very issue, all they way up to the lead of their engineering team. Not a single one of them had any opinion on the compatibility of USB-C on this current generation of Macs. I guess if they are unaware of it, we can only assume its because they have not been handling a ton of support calls about it and it must work. I just wish they would be more transparent.
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I have been touring a 2017 MacBook Pro with only USB-C ports and converting to ethernet and communicating Dante has been fine. I am routinely recording each show of the tours and using virtual soundcheck at the next venue. All working as described.
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Yeah, Audinate has been very cagey on the compatibility of various ethernet adaptors. There is nothing what so ever on their site about USB-C/Thunderbolt 3. I spent some time at their booth at Infocomm a few weeks ago grilling them about this very issue, all they way up to the lead of their engineering team. Not a single one of them had any opinion on the compatibility of USB-C on this current generation of Macs. I guess if they are unaware of it, we can only assume its because they have not been handling a ton of support calls about it and it must work. I just wish they would be more transparent.
As Dante adheres completely to TCP/IP Ethernet protocol, it is totally divorced from any need to test hardware. Dante will run on all Ethernet hardware, and if it doesn't it's a user error (lack of networking knowledge) or the hardware is faulty. That is why Audinate is not in the business of compatibility recommendations.
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As Dante adheres completely to TCP/IP Ethernet protocol, it is totally divorced from any need to test hardware. Dante will run on all Ethernet hardware, and if it doesn't it's a user error (lack of networking knowledge) or the hardware is faulty. That is why Audinate is not in the business of compatibility recommendations.
I disagree with this.
There have been several instances when I myself have experienced that Dante doesn't run on certain NICs. I had a laptop that wouldn't run Dante without introducing extreme latency, like multiple seconds. No amount of troubleshooting or restoring drivers etc... was able to fix the problem. That same laptop ran any other Ethernet connection just fine. The only solution was to get a different laptop.
Also, my current main workstation at work seems to be having some odd issues with DVS and our Mac Pro that don't make any sense and I haven't been able to find a fix for yet.
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I've also run into issues on computers where one driver manages the wired and wireless NICs. Running spotify through Dante Via while connected to the internet over wifi works for a little while, and then starts getting choppy and eventually dropping out completely. Only way to rectify it is to disconnect from wifi. There's all kinds of little gotchas on a seemingly per-device basis...
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As Dante adheres completely to TCP/IP Ethernet protocol, it is totally divorced from any need to test hardware. Dante will run on all Ethernet hardware, and if it doesn't it's a user error (lack of networking knowledge) or the hardware is faulty. That is why Audinate is not in the business of compatibility recommendations.
I also disagree with this. The reason Audinate makes so few compatibility recommendations is because Virtual Soundcard and Via are the only Dante-based products that rely on off-the-shelf Ethernet NICs. In every "real" Dante application (i.e. hardware of some kind), if you peal back the manufacturer's packaging you'll always find that the networking chip (everything from at least the MII on up) is actually an Audinate part running Audinate firmware. Needless to say, it's a given that Audinate's hardware is compatible with itself.
Dante as a protocol was clearly designed to "play nice" with off-the-shelf switches (which, if they are small, can have a full switching throughput while still being relatively easy to design and cheap to build). That said, Dante's constant clocking datagrams require sub-millisecond timing accuracy to make the network sync properly, and that can definitely give off-the-shelf NICs a run for their money. UDP/IP is a well-defined standard, but to say that Dante will run on "all Ethernet hardware" places a tonne of (IMO misplaced) faith in the firmware- and drive-writing abilities of NIC chipset OEMs, most of whom care only about more mainstream network applications (and their own bottom lines).
For me, the bottom line is this: if off-the-shelf NICs were capable of passing Dante reliably, Audinate would never have bothered to build their own.
-Russ