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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Kane Mitchell on July 23, 2017, 10:41:38 PM
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So I need some advice on choosing some active speakers. I recently bought 2 cheap Mackie sw1801 18" subs converted to passive with a 2000W amp which are a little bit excessive for what I realistically need. I now have to choose my FOH speakers. I am mainly going to be using them for party situations (21st's). my price range for the speakers is around $600 per box. The main ones that I have been looking at are the JBL EON or the Yamaha DBR. The EV ZLX are a bit more expensive and I didn't feel like they offer much more than the other 2.
As I will be using them with the subs majority of the time, my question was whether I should get the 10" or 12" drivers. Are there any advantages in getting the 12" speakers over the 10" when using subs?
I was leaning more towards the DBR's but their 10" version is around 150W less than the 12". Max SPL is only a few decibels different so will this matter?
Also in Australia the Yamaha's come with a 5 year warranty whilst the JBL's only come with a 1 year warranty for electronics and 3 years for driver.
Any suggestions what would be the best option?
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A longer warranty is, all things being otherwise equal, always a good thing. As between the 10" and 12" versions, look at where the crossover will need to be from the subs to the tops. I suspect that the 12" might be a bit smoother, but I have not looked at the frequency responses of the options you are considering.
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For that budget I would look for a pair of used Yamaha DSR112, IMO easily better than both your choices.
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For that budget I would look for a pair of used Yamaha DSR112, IMO easily better than both your choices.
Apart from being much more powerful, would the DSR's sound quality be much higher or are you basically just paying for more watts?
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Apart from being much more powerful, would the DSR's sound quality be much higher or are you basically just paying for more watts?
Way better sounding.
Besides, watts doesn't tell you anything about a speaker cabinet.
SPL tells you how loud it can get.
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In between the two is the DXR series, which to me sounds more appropriate from your description.
These boxes sound great, loud and full.
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Yamaha all the way... EONs are horrible sounding boxes IMO. I'd also suggest 12" mains with 18" subs.
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I own a pair of DBR12 that sound fine for what I'm using them for - mostly voice reinforcement and foreground music. I'm told they will sound funky when cranked but I'm not coming close to that SPL with my needs. No subs needed in my use. To me the DBR sound better than the 600 series EONs.
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Kane,
I have the EON 612's that I use for talking heads and a little bit of music and I am not impressed!! I purchased them a few years ago mainly because I have lots of other JBL's; SRX, Vertecs and such. The EONs are lame for anything other than speech. Go with the Yamahas.
Scott
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You might try contacting Mike Pyle on this forum for a delivered price on the Yamaha DSR or DXR. He is a dealer in California, and can possibly help you. I recommend the 12's over the 10's.
If you want JBL get nothing less that the PRX series, but I think you'll be very happy with the Yamaha's and their better warranty.
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My experience of the Eons (most when used as monitors) is that they are targeted to speaker on a stick DJs and voiced to sound as if they have as much bass as possible. If you're going to put your mains over subs, as you should, then this doesn't really buy you much. The EV ZLX is similar with a built in smile eq curve.
I own a DBR10 that I use as a drum monitor over a DXS12 sub. Awhile back I loaned it to a friend who had one DXR10 and wanted to try his keyboard rig in stereo. The sound between the two was different enough he broke down and got another DXR pretty quickly. While I think the DBR is much more accurate than the EON, it's obviously a cost constrained box. It sounds a bit boxy and plastic and gets congested when pushed. Just like any other low cost box with a small compression driver. If you can swing DXR10s I'd highly suggest it. With the subs you won't be giving up that much compared to the 12s and getting the better high frequency section will be well worth it in overall sound compared to a cheaper box with a larger woofer.
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You might try contacting Mike Pyle on this forum for a delivered price on the Yamaha DSR or DXR. He is a dealer in California, and can possibly help you. I recommend the 12's over the 10's.
If you want JBL get nothing less that the PRX series, but I think you'll be very happy with the Yamaha's and their better warranty.
OP is in Australia.
DXR and DSR are quite a bit dearer in Australia. DBR12 can be had for a bit over $600, DXR12 for about $1000.
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OP is in Australia.
DXR and DSR are quite a bit dearer in Australia. DBR12 can be had for a bit over $600, DXR12 for about $1000.
I noted that they were down under and Mike probably wouldn't be able to help them. Didn't know what was different with the various lines.
That said, with the OP having subs, of a sort, I would still recommend getting DXR10s over DBR12s. They don't need extra LF and the extra HF and midrange will be much more useful.
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So I need some advice on choosing some active speakers. I recently bought 2 cheap Mackie sw1801 18" subs converted to passive with a 2000W amp which are a little bit excessive for what I realistically need. I now have to choose my FOH speakers. I am mainly going to be using them for party situations (21st's). my price range for the speakers is around $600 per box. The main ones that I have been looking at are the JBL EON or the Yamaha DBR. The EV ZLX are a bit more expensive and I didn't feel like they offer much more than the other 2.
As I will be using them with the subs majority of the time, my question was whether I should get the 10" or 12" drivers. Are there any advantages in getting the 12" speakers over the 10" when using subs?
Yes. 12" speakers will handle the low mids much better (in general) than 10" speakers will. This portion of the music is where the "punch" comes from (not the subs despite what many people think).
I was leaning more towards the DBR's but their 10" version is around 150W less than the 12". Max SPL is only a few decibels different so will this matter?
Try not to get too carried away with SPL numbers. They are better than "Watts" for sure, but they still are grossly lacking as any real indicator of how much usable volume can be had from the speaker. Either listen to them yourself, or get the advice of people who have. The SPL (especially on lower range boxes) is just not a good indicator really.
Also in Australia the Yamaha's come with a 5 year warranty whilst the JBL's only come with a 1 year warranty for electronics and 3 years for driver.
This is very important (all other things being equal).
Any suggestions what would be the best option?
I know that down under music equipment is higher priced than we in the states are used to. I don't care for the EON's .... and never really have. I am equally unimpressed with the DBR's, but would likely pick these over the EON's.
Here is a really radical idea....
Get a single DSR112. It will (no kidding) blow the doors off of a pair of EON's or a pair of DBR's and it will sound many times better doing it.
I guarantee you won't regret it, and that one top will even out-run both of your subs so you will never be even close to the limit lights (at least on the DSR112 ;) ).
Good luck!
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Yes. 12" speakers will handle the low mids much better (in general) than 10" speakers will. This portion of the music is where the "punch" comes from (not the subs despite what many people think).
All things being equal, yes. But things are not equal between the DBR and the DXR. While I didn't get to compare them side by side when my keyboard buddy had my DBR, I suspect that a DXR 10 will outrun a DBR 12 in the mid bass as well. I know a couple of other keyboard players using a pair of DXR10s (both of which traded in K10s to get them) and their left hand isn't lacking.
Also agreed that a single DSR112 will outrun his subs. Depending on the venues he's doing that may be a possibility. If doing your own band you could definitely get away with it. Hiring out as a DJ or something you'd might get funny looks and not get call backs from people listening with their eyes having only one stack.
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I own a pair of DBR12 that sound fine for what I'm using them for - mostly voice reinforcement and foreground music. I'm told they will sound funky when cranked but I'm not coming close to that SPL with my needs. No subs needed in my use. To me the DBR sound better than the 600 series EONs.
+1
I got a pair of DBR 10's for vocal monitor use in smaller gigs and they work nicely.
I didn't like the Eon's when I did comparison.
I preferred the ZLX12p over the EON as well.
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Also agreed that a single DSR112 will outrun his subs. Depending on the venues he's doing that may be a possibility. If doing your own band you could definitely get away with it. Hiring out as a DJ or something you'd might get funny looks and not get call backs from people listening with their eyes having only one stack.
Put one of your old speakers on a stick, but don't turn it on. It will look right, but sound better.
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OP is in Australia.
DXR and DSR are quite a bit dearer in Australia. DBR12 can be had for a bit over $600, DXR12 for about $1000.
Yes, I was aware of that, but was hoping Mike knew of a dealer in Australia. Do they not have Yamaha or JBL dealers down under?
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Thanks for all the feedback guys, I ended up going with the DBR10's as got them on a pretty good deal. Cost was a pretty big influence in the decision (I'm a struggling Uni kid) but they still sound fantastic. My first real purchase of some proper audio stuff!
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Thanks for all the feedback guys, I ended up going with the DBR10's as got them on a pretty good deal. Cost was a pretty big influence in the decision (I'm a struggling Uni kid) but they still sound fantastic. My first real purchase of some proper audio stuff!
Congrats!
Get covers for them ASAP if you haven't already and take real good care of them so when you're ready to upgrade you can get the most for them to offset your upgrade costs.
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Congrats!
Get covers for them ASAP if you haven't already and take real good care of them so when you're ready to upgrade you can get the most for them to offset your upgrade costs.
+1. I got the official Yamaha covers for my DBR12s. Slick design that is weather-resistant, including a little pop-out shelter for the amp bucket connections and controls.
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+1. I got the official Yamaha covers for my DBR12s. Slick design that is weather-resistant, including a little pop-out shelter for the amp bucket connections and controls.
I got the official ones too. Very nice although how to get to the handle confused my bassist to no end LOL.
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Thanks for all the feedback guys, I ended up going with the DBR10's as got them on a pretty good deal. Cost was a pretty big influence in the decision (I'm a struggling Uni kid) but they still sound fantastic. My first real purchase of some proper audio stuff!
I would agree that they are a big step up from an EON or JRX (neither of which is even good as a foot rest at a frat party). They are also well protected and warranted for 7 years (at least here in the states).
Good luck .... and as others have said, get some bags for em. The finish is not that of a DSR which is nearly bullet proof. The DBR's mark easily (they have to save somewhere to meet price points).
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I would agree that they are a big step up from an EON or JRX (neither of which is even good as a foot rest at a frat party). They are also well protected and warranted for 7 years (at least here in the states).
Good luck .... and as others have said, get some bags for em. The finish is not that of a DSR which is nearly bullet proof. The DBR's mark easily (they have to save somewhere to meet price points).
Yeah I wasn't sure if I would need the covers or not but sounds like its a good idea.
Here in Australia they have a 5 year warranty. The JBL's only had a 1 year warranty on electronics and 3 years on driver. Main reason went with Yamaha. I can't imagine repairs being cheap! Shows that yamaha are more confident in their product compared to JBL
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Yeah I wasn't sure if I would need the covers or not but sounds like its a good idea.
Here in Australia they have a 5 year warranty. The JBL's only had a 1 year warranty on electronics and 3 years on driver. Main reason went with Yamaha. I can't imagine repairs being cheap! Shows that yamaha are more confident in their product compared to JBL
Warranty is provided by the distributor or importer, with subsidy from the manufacturer. Ultimately it's up to the importer to set up warranty terms they feel appropriate.
And, of course, every manufacturer can handle this differently - some may set all warranty terms based on claims history in a given country, or may leave it up to importers/distributors.