Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 15:39 |
If you've really measured the SPL with a reliable meter and are not guess-timating, I'd say 108 (dBA?) is just too loud. And probably over OSHA specs..... More information is needed, as usual, but just taking a shotgun approach I'd want to know what the SPL is in the front row without the mains on. Most often the problem is that the onstage volume is such that the mains must be pushed into excess to allow enough headroom to get a full mix. Start by turning down the band. Then you can turn down the system. "Make a joyful noise......but at a reasonable level." |
Adam Foster wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 10:45 |
Hello Everyone, Our Pastor just informed me at the beginning of this week about complaints from a lot of saints about the loudness of our services. I measured one of our services and its about 96 in the sound room in the back and 108 on the front row. And now the biggest issue, acoustics. I am not sure where to go from here or what to do. I need to come up with some type of solution to increase clarity so I can lower the overall volume. Any help is appreciated. Thanks |
Adam Foster wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 16:48 |
Thank you everyone for your input. I will let you know that the drums are already in a cage with padded treated. |
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All of the muscians are using the Aviom system for personal mixes. The only monitors I have are the pulpit, for lead singer and music, and the praise team monitor hung above the pulpit for jus the praise team. |
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As far as the line array the more I think about it the more I don't like the idea of them in that building. However I do need to get the speakers in the air in a cluster as some of you stated. I just don't know what type of speakers to turn to. Any suggestions on speakers would be great. Thank you everyone Adam Foster |
Adam Foster wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 19:17 |
The drums are in a fully enclosed cage. Only a little bit of low end travels through the cage. As far as the muscians being too loud, I don't think that is the case. We doe not have any amps on the stage. I have an active direct box that the guitar and bass use. I do agree however that our pulpit monitors could be too loud and reflecting back in the sanctuary. We are currenly in a new building project so treating the current sanctuary for acoustics will be useless at this point. I was hoping maybe I could get a more directional approach with the speakers and then be able to turn it down because the sound is pointed at them instead of hearing off the walls. Any suggestions? |
Adam Foster wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 16:48 |
As far as the line array the more I think about it the more I don't like the idea of them in that building. However I do need to get the speakers in the air in a cluster as some of you stated. I just don't know what type of speakers to turn to. Any suggestions on speakers would be great. |
Dick Rees wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 12:23 |
Adam.... So the actual level is considerably lower than your original estimate......at least on the measurement day. I usually take measurements A weighted/slow and that would read a tad less than the C scale. I think you'll find that 86 dBA/slow will be acceptable to most folks in the front row. Your mix position is not the best, but still not the worst if you're out in the open and not in a recessed space. You can certainly try some treatment on the walls behind and to either side of you. But as long as you're going into a renovation, why not just consider working the accoustic treatment into the job? I'd also look at some smaller speakers and make sure that the pattern is narrow enought to keep the sound off the walls and ceiling. There are angle tilters available for stand mounted speakers. If you want to fly the speakers, please use a certified/bonded/insured install outfit. DIY is just not an option here. Also, if you use such an outfit they'll be a resource for recommending speaker type/configuration and install them at the proper angle for best coverage. Good luck. |
Taylor Phillips wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 18:13 |
Reading all this, I have to ask does the room have accoustic panels on the walls? You said you had cinderblock walls, but I don't recall a mention of accoustic panels. Putting some in will help with clarity and should be cheaper and easier than reworking your system. |
George S Dougherty wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 15:45 | ||
Just because the cluster arrangement is the way it's often done doesn't mean that it's the best way to do things. I've yet to hear a center cluster that provided as even, non-comb filtered, coverage as an LCR setup. That's my preference at least. |
Brad Weber wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 00:15 | ||||
I am a big fan of LCR systems but I don't understand this. LCR systems commonly consist of left, center and right arrays/clusters with each covering the entire listener area. Thus the center component of an LCR system is often essentially the same as what you would provide for a mono center array/cluster. In addition, typically many vocals would end up in the center array only. So for many vocal sources or anything panned center, there doesn't seem to be much difference between a mono center cluster and an LCR system. At the same time, the possibility of the same signal being sent to multiple arrays in an LCR system would seem to increase the likelihood of interaction and combfiltering between the multiple sources compared to a mono center cluster. Perhaps you mean LCR in a different sense. |
George S Dougherty wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 01:00 |
I was talking more about a single box or small array per, rather than a trap cluster. I can get away with it though since my mains have 120 degrees of horizontal dispersion. Not all speakers would do well in that arrangement. My sanctuary is wider than Adam's and with two mains hung from beams on the 1/3 and 2/3 points of the sanctuary I have even coverage from wall to wall and no noticable comb filtering effects. You're right though, an LCR arrangement with trap clusters would probably only make things worse. |
Brad Weber wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 10:10 | ||
Thanks for the clarification. Since both approaches require full coverage from the center element, if you use a single speaker as the center element in a well designed LCR system then you could probably use that same speaker as a mono center 'cluster'. Or conversely, if a multi-box array is required for a mono center cluster then it is also likely required for the center element in an LCR system. LCR systems are very nice when properly designed and implemented but people often overlook that in regards to the speaker system a properly designed LCR system is essentially combining a properly designed mono center cluster with a properly designed stereo (L/R) system. It does not really change any single element, they each still require the same coverage, output, response, etc. |