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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Josh Evangelista on October 21, 2016, 06:41:53 PM
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Hi guys,
How much does an electrician charges if you hire them to tap off the power line of a building for a show?
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Are you asking about a tap downstream from the meter and the main breaker? How much power are you talking about?
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Are you asking about a tap downstream from the meter and the main breaker? How much power are you talking about?
Yes. Sorry I have limited knowledge of electrical power so please bear with me. I will need to power a Danley DNA20k4 and two QSC PLD4.5 amps. I presume I can have two-three 20 amp outlets?
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Yes. The cost is going to vary based on a number of factors:
1. Are there 3 open spaces in the circuit breaker box? If not, then you will need a sub-panel (or a new main panel). (I assume that the electrical service to the building will support the additional amperage needed.)
2. Is this a permanent installation, or a one-off event?
3. How far do you need to go from the circuit breaker panel to the point you need to plug in? Is there good access to run the wires (and conduit, if needed/required). If it is temporary you might be able to run suitable cable to a small distro.
YMMV.
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It varies. A service company in Los Angeles will charge $60-$95 an hour with a 1 hour minimum charge and then 15 minute intervals after. The cost for what you want done will depend on whats involved and if any additional parts are used. Without being there I cant say how much. It will be a time and materials job.
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Yes. The cost is going to vary based on a number of factors:
1. Are there 3 open spaces in the circuit breaker box? If not, then you will need a sub-panel (or a new main panel). (I assume that the electrical service to the building will support the additional amperage needed.)
2. Is this a permanent installation, or a one-off event?
3. How far do you need to go from the circuit breaker panel to the point you need to plug in? Is there good access to run the wires (and conduit, if needed/required). If it is temporary you might be able to run suitable cable to a small distro.
YMMV.
Thanks Mark. Its a one-offf event.
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It varies. A service company in Los Angeles will charge $60-$95 an hour with a 1 hour minimum charge and then 15 minute intervals after. The cost for what you want done will depend on whats involved and if any additional parts are used. Without being there I cant say how much. It will be a time and materials job.
Thanks Jeff. Will this rate normally includes teardown?
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Thanks Jeff. Will this rate normally includes teardown?
If the electrician has to come back out it will cost you. Ask if he will give you a flat rate price when he comes.
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Since you are getting the large Danley amp, I would suggest getting a small distro that feeds of a 50A California plug. That is the most common supply you'll find other than 10A Edisons or cams (which you don't want to play with). Your distro can have a 30A outlet to feed the large amp and a few circuits of 20A outlets for other things.
Now what you want the electrician to do (if a CS outlet isn't at the site) is add in a temporary 50A breaker and a pigtail to the CS plug (which you can buy since you'll be using it all the time). You'll also need enough 4/4 or 6/4 (depending on length) cable to get from the breaker box in whatever venues you'll be working in to where you need the power (typically near your amp rack).
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Now what you want the electrician to do (if a CS outlet isn't at the site) is add in a temporary 50A breaker and a pigtail to the CS plug (which you can buy since you'll be using it all the time). You'll also need enough 4/4 or 6/4 (depending on length) cable to get from the breaker box in whatever venues you'll be working in to where you need the power (typically near your amp rack).
At my day job, we're frequently in the position of having to get a temporary service installed for a mobile recording truck. The truck feeder is 200 ft. of 2 ga. with cam-locks, but the truck only draws a bit over 30A, so we can run off a 50A double-pole breaker. We found it was actually less expensive to have an electrician install a NEMA 14-50R and 40 or 50A breaker than to install the cam-lock tails and then come back and take them out. The return call (especially if it's late at night) costs more than the receptacle, wire and conduit that will get left behind. You're paying for the breaker anyway, even if it's only temporary, so that's a wash. If we never come back to that venue, we still break even, and if we do return, there is no additional cost for electrical hookup (as long as it hasn't been removed since we were last there). The California Connector is a much nicer plug, but are almost unheard of in our market, so we just stick with the 14-50, which is cheap and available almost anywhere.
GTD
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Around these parts I still run into places with a box and a 30A or 50A breaker that's hanging unlocked for tie-ins. So having a pigtail off a CS connector is handy. Usually I have a 14-50 on it that I just take off when confronted with a tie-in box. Given the questions the OP asks (including the threads on putting together his rig) I wouldn't advocate tying in. And if I was going to leave things behind I like the idea of a 14-50. The CS connector is far too expensive. Maybe over time he can similarly populate his likely venues with 14-50s.
CS connectors are popular here. At my work, they're all over the place for pop up events. Most of the larger cities have them where they have events and so on. The biggest problem I've had has been hotel ballrooms. They want you to rent their distro so they often have some oddball Ceeform connector that's really expensive to collect the variations of. Sometimes you can get them to dig up a CS outlet adapter to their internal standard but it often takes some arm twisting.
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Around these parts I still run into places with a box and a 30A or 50A breaker that's hanging unlocked for tie-ins. So having a pigtail off a CS connector is handy. Usually I have a 14-50 on it that I just take off when confronted with a tie-in box. Given the questions the OP asks (including the threads on putting together his rig) I wouldn't advocate tying in. And if I was going to leave things behind I like the idea of a 14-50. The CS connector is far too expensive. Maybe over time he can similarly populate his likely venues with 14-50s.
CS connectors are popular here. At my work, they're all over the place for pop up events. Most of the larger cities have them where they have events and so on. The biggest problem I've had has been hotel ballrooms. They want you to rent their distro so they often have some oddball Ceeform connector that's really expensive to collect the variations of. Sometimes you can get them to dig up a CS outlet adapter to their internal standard but it often takes some arm twisting.
Thanks Stephen. How does a temporary breaker looks like?
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Thanks Stephen. How does a temporary breaker looks like?
It's the same as a permanent breaker. ;) It's a separate 50A breaker you are bringing in to pop into the panel. But, since all manufacturers have different style breakers, you will want to advance to ensure you bring the right style.
-Ray
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It's the same as a permanent breaker. ;) It's a separate 50A breaker you are bringing in to pop into the panel. But, since all manufacturers have different style breakers, you will want to advance to ensure you bring the right style.
-Ray
Make sure it has the same symmetrical rating as the other breakers. It will be a number on the label something like > 10,000 , 15,000 , 20,000 etc.
http://peguru.com/2011/06/what-do-symmetrical-asymmetrical-momentary-interrupting-close-latch-ratings-mean/
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It's the same as a permanent breaker. ;) It's a separate 50A breaker you are bringing in to pop into the panel. But, since all manufacturers have different style breakers, you will want to advance to ensure you bring the right style.
-Ray
Also note that while a particular breaker may look like what's in the panel, and it may fit in the panel, and is probably safe to use, if the type designation on the breaker does not match what the panel is listed for (read the nomenclature label), then it's technically a violation of the UL listing to use that breaker in that panel.
For example, Schneider/Square D "Homeline" breakers and panels have a type code of HOM. And Siemens/ITE have a type code of QP. And Eaton/Cutler Hammer has a type code of BR. Even though they all look and seem to fit exactly the same, a studious inspector will likely fail the installation.
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Also note that while a particular breaker may look like what's in the panel, and it may fit in the panel, and is probably safe to use, if the type designation on the breaker does not match what the panel is listed for (read the nomenclature label), then it's technically a violation of the UL listing to use that breaker in that panel.
For example, Schneider/Square D "Homeline" breakers and panels have a type code of HOM. And Siemens/ITE have a type code of QP. And Eaton/Cutler Hammer has a type code of BR. Even though they all look and seem to fit exactly the same, a studious inspector will likely fail the installation.
That's definitely a good point. (Jeff had a good point as well, but I've never looked at "symmetrical ratings" on breakers, since I always just make sure I am purchasing the exact same breaker that a panel requires...) That being said, I've never had luck with trying to fit the wrong manufacturer's breaker into a panel, so I would HOPE that just wouldn't work at all!
-Ray
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The temporary breaker suggestion was for the OP to have someone qualified put it in and pigtail out to a CS that he could plug a small distro into. As with the tie-in, I wasn't advocating that he get into a breaker box and try to install anything. His original question was for a dedicated 30A for his Danley amp and how to get an electrician put one in. I merely suggested that he get a distro with the 30A circuit along with some regular 20A ones and have a real electrician provide the means for him to plug it in. I do like the idea if the venues will let him of having a real electrician put stove plugs in for when he comes back to that place.
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We found it was actually less expensive to have an electrician install a NEMA 14-50R and 40 or 50A breaker than to install the cam-lock tails and then come back and take them out. The return call (especially if it's late at night) costs more than the receptacle, wire and conduit that will get left behind.
+ 1 on this one. If there's not a 14-50 receptacle and they let you install one, do it! Now, you can hire the electrician to go in at any time prior to the show to do the install, vs being on a tight schedule for the install. That can save you $$$. Additionally, now there's a connection there for future use. Even if it's not you, you get feel good bonus points for the next guy.
And, maybe, just maybe, someone would have done the same thing for you at your next location so you don't have to worry about it!