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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Goerge Thomas on June 28, 2016, 02:47:54 AM
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Hello all,
Fun situation I am in. I have a permanent venue that does concerts outdoors for 1-350 people and we have been running 4 EV QRX 212s as tops with proper power and processing. They are ground stacked with the lowest portion of the box 5 feet above the audience. These sound great for the most part with 2 per side. My venue decided to buy 8 JBL VRX 932LA-1s and will fly 4 per side with the lowest box being 15 feet above people's heads instead of the 2 QRX boxes per side. (area is 100X70) Forget about CCA (constant curvature array) and coverage and install and flying versus ground stacking. Putting 8 of these VRX boxes up against 4 QRX 212s I am trying to see if I should expect equal or better sound quality assuming everything else is about perfectly the same variable wise and the install is correct. I sit at FOH around 60 feet and would like to know opinions on the VRX 932 sound versus the QRX 212 sound. I would describe the QRX as a fairly smooth if not almost a rather "hifi" sounding type box run passively. I have heard other people describe the VRXs as having harsh highs and this concerns me. So let me know your thoughts, this will be bands of all genres and canned music and speech... once again for DB level and coverage references.. the 4 qrx 212s covered well and were loud enough for our needs.
By the way, it was not my choice to buy them and will not be my choice to keep using the QRX boxes. So I am looking for opinions on my future rig. They bought it because "line array!" and because many more riders would accept 8 VRX boxes than would ever consider 4 QRX boxes. SO they made that call, not me. First thing I will do is stick 2 VRXs on a pole together and play music through it with a QRX next to it to A/B and compare sonically.
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Hello all,
Fun situation I am in. I have a permanent venue that does concerts outdoors for 1-350 people and we have been running 4 EV QRX 212s as tops with proper power and processing. They are ground stacked with the lowest portion of the box 5 feet above the audience. These sound great for the most part with 2 per side. My venue decided to buy 8 JBL VRX 932LA-1s and will fly 4 per side with the lowest box being 15 feet above people's heads instead of the 2 QRX boxes per side. (area is 100X70) Forget about CCA (constant curvature array) and coverage and install and flying versus ground stacking. Putting 8 of these VRX boxes up against 4 QRX 212s I am trying to see if I should expect equal or better sound quality assuming everything else is about perfectly the same variable wise and the install is correct. I sit at FOH around 60 feet and would like to know opinions on the VRX 932 sound versus the QRX 212 sound. I would describe the QRX as a fairly smooth if not almost a rather "hifi" sounding type box run passively. I have heard other people describe the VRXs as having harsh highs and this concerns me. So let me know your thoughts, this will be bands of all genres and canned music and speech... once again for DB level and coverage references.. the 4 qrx 212s covered well and were loud enough for our needs.
By the way, it was not my choice to buy them and will not be my choice to keep using the QRX boxes. So I am looking for opinions on my future rig. They bought it because "line array!" and because many more riders would accept 8 VRX boxes than would ever consider 4 QRX boxes. SO they made that call, not me. First thing I will do is stick 2 VRXs on a pole together and play music through it with a QRX next to it to A/B and compare sonically.
Will you be posting the QRX's for sale?
As far as opinion. I occasionally work at a venue just about the same size with the 212's, love them. I also have run the 932's with and without V5. With V5 processing it is at best a lateral move.
From a coverage and level standpoint you are going to gain a bunch of headroom if the old system covered the area and ran at the levels desired by the venue.
In my opinion they are "touchy" and very hot on the high end.
After hanging out in these forums I have listened far more critically. To my ear, even a well processed line array will never have the vocal clarity of a single source. You will chase the EQ and mix and generally work harder to get the vocals ride on top. Then you will fall into the trap of compressing the shit out of everything so you can get all the elements out in the mix but you lose so much of the live show sound.
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Will you be posting the QRX's for sale?
As far as opinion. I occasionally work at a venue just about the same size with the 212's, love them. I also have run the 932's with and without V5. With V5 processing it is at best a lateral move.
From a coverage and level standpoint you are going to gain a bunch of headroom if the old system covered the area and ran at the levels desired by the venue.
In my opinion they are "touchy" and very hot on the high end.
After hanging out in these forums I have listened far more critically. To my ear, even a well processed line array will never have the vocal clarity of a single source. You will chase the EQ and mix and generally work harder to get the vocals ride on top. Then you will fall into the trap of compressing the shit out of everything so you can get all the elements out in the mix but you lose so much of the live show sound.
The QRXs will not be going up for sale at this point. They will be put in another room. My other question would be if you had the budget of the 8 VRX units and had to buy a fox for the same price that was either constant curvature or line array style, what would you look into instead? Roughly 7.5K they bought 8 of these plus rigging frames for (very very used) Their biggest concern is being rider friendly for B and C level acts and NOT buying an old box like KF 650/850 or turbosound flood/flashlights not matter what I tell them...I've quite liked the sound of the QSC KLAs but heard no other budget CCA or Line array box enough to have an idea.
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The KLA might sound nice and smooth or polite in a demo but I've heard people pushing them in a local rock venue. No clarity at all. The times I've heard 932s they've had the classic JBL forwardness. Which is probably easier to tame than trying to get vocals out front with the KLAs.
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The QRXs will not be going up for sale at this point. They will be put in another room. My other question would be if you had the budget of the 8 VRX units and had to buy a fox for the same price that was either constant curvature or line array style, what would you look into instead? Roughly 7.5K they bought 8 of these plus rigging frames for (very very used) Their biggest concern is being rider friendly for B and C level acts and NOT buying an old box like KF 650/850 or turbosound flood/flashlights not matter what I tell them...I've quite liked the sound of the QSC KLAs but heard no other budget CCA or Line array box enough to have an idea.
You have rider issues on an installed system for acts playing to 350 people? I would rather see a trap system on a spec than a faux array. How does that vertical dispersion make sense? Who decided this?
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It sounds like a done deal.
Score: Line array on tech rider . . . 1.
Audio quality and physics . . . 0.
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Hi Goerge-
JBL has prediction software for the VRX series:
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/VRXLACSetup_v1-0-0-0.zip
I strongly suggest you download, install, and use it to determine the coverage provided. It's possible that 4/side will either play to the rafters or put a whole bunch of sound down on the stage, or miss a whole bunch of audience UNLESS you do this. It could well be that 3/side will do what is needed.
That said, if this were my room I'd be telling acts "the installed system is QRX, and any change to the PA will at artist's expense (deducted from their fee)."
Any act that rejects a KF650 rig will likely reject VRX (if the act is specifying a line array, they probably know VRX is NOT a line array). I doubt anyone on your board of directors even had that as a passing thought. If I were a BE, I'd happily accept a properly installed/deployed QRX rig over VRX any day of the week.
I take it you are the technical person at a theater or performing arts facility...
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Maybe I am missing something here.
Apparently you have more than 1 room involved.
So in "room A" (the room in question) you have a system that is doing the job fine (from what I read).
So "somebody" wants to take that system out-put it in room B and put another system in room A.
Is the current room A system proper for room B?
Why take a working system out, and move it?
Why not just put a new system in room B?
And when talking about a "proper" system, the FIRST thing that SHOULD be considered is-"Is the coverage correct for the room"
If it is not, then nothing else matters.
But if "somebody" just "has" to have a particular product, whether or not it is correct for the room or does the job properly, then by all means let them spend their money.
But reserve the old "told you so" for your defense.
But VERY OFTEN, people will overlook actual defects in the performance of a system, simply because the new system gives them some sort of "feel good" because they bought it.
VERY RARELY does anybody admit they made a bad decision.
They just start looking for others to make them feel good about their decision. You see it hear all the time.
People will buy a system, then ask for opinions. When the opinions don't go the way they way-they get very defensive about the purchase.
Maybe they should have looked for opinions BEFORE purchasing--------
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Hi Goerge-
JBL has prediction software for the VRX series:
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/VRXLACSetup_v1-0-0-0.zip
I strongly suggest you download, install, and use it to determine the coverage provided. It's possible that 4/side will either play to the rafters or put a whole bunch of sound down on the stage, or miss a whole bunch of audience UNLESS you do this. It could well be that 3/side will do what is needed.
That said, if this were my room I'd be telling acts "the installed system is QRX, and any change to the PA will at artist's expense (deducted from their fee)."
Any act that rejects a KF650 rig will likely reject VRX (if the act is specifying a line array, they probably know VRX is NOT a line array). I doubt anyone on your board of directors even had that as a passing thought. If I were a BE, I'd happily accept a properly installed/deployed QRX rig over VRX any day of the week.
I take it you are the technical person at a theater or performing arts facility...
Unfortunately, yes. That's me. Everyone here is right. Bands so far just want to see JBL "Line Array type" system installed at X venue with a hang of 4 per side. I did not make the choice nor do I have the money to! I will play with the JBL prediction software. I did think 4 a side was going to be too much with 60 degrees.... I considered taking 2 and doing an LCR setup with 3 per side and 2 in the middle... all 8 are already bought.
Now the fun part of this. My employer also somehow thought buying 6 used Vertec 4888 boxes ($3500 each) would put us into the next level for our ballroom. Don't even get me started on having 8 VRX932s and 6 VT4888s.... we could have had such better systems for the money...Now I get to deal with deploying that as well with no actual processor besides 31 band eq's, old school 3 way analog crossovers and an X32. Someone put me out of my misery. But at the end of the day we now have "line arrays" and that brings in business.....This will be the subject of my next post! Can't wait to talk about that.
Ivan, you are 100% correct. We have 3 rooms. Our A rig (QRX) is going into our C room, the VT4888 into the A room and the VRX rig into the B room. Before this we only had sound for our B room with the QRX rig. They should have asked me before but someone got too excited with these deals they found and bought without talking to me. Now I certainly will do my best to deploy and operate but will reserve the told you so for a later date....
Thanks for the responses so far.
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But at the end of the day we now have "line arrays" and that brings in business.....
And everyone here who is turning a profit knows that what makes money does not always make sense sound-wise.
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Unfortunately, yes. That's me. Everyone here is right. Bands so far just want to see JBL "Line Array type" system installed at X venue with a hang of 4 per side. I did not make the choice nor do I have the money to! I will play with the JBL prediction software. I did think 4 a side was going to be too much with 60 degrees.... I considered taking 2 and doing an LCR setup with 3 per side and 2 in the middle... all 8 are already bought.
Now the fun part of this. My employer also somehow thought buying 6 used Vertec 4888 boxes ($3500 each) would put us into the next level for our ballroom. Don't even get me started on having 8 VRX932s and 6 VT4888s.... we could have had such better systems for the money...Now I get to deal with deploying that as well with no actual processor besides 31 band eq's, old school 3 way analog crossovers and an X32. Someone put me out of my misery. But at the end of the day we now have "line arrays" and that brings in business.....This will be the subject of my next post! Can't wait to talk about that.
Ivan, you are 100% correct. We have 3 rooms. Our A rig (QRX) is going into our C room, the VT4888 into the A room and the VRX rig into the B room. Before this we only had sound for our B room with the QRX rig. They should have asked me before but someone got too excited with these deals they found and bought without talking to me. Now I certainly will do my best to deploy and operate but will reserve the told you so for a later date....
Thanks for the responses so far.
If they try to use the 4888 without appropriate processing, they will soon be on "do not play this room, the PA is FUCKED" list of every act that plays your circuit. Seriously. If your employer does not believe you, PM me with with your phone number and we'll have a little conference call.
This is the kind of shit that gives a venue a bad name...
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If they try to use the 4888 without appropriate processing, they will soon be on "do not play this room, the PA is FUCKED" list of every act that plays your circuit. Seriously. If your employer does not believe you, PM me with with your phone number and we'll have a little conference call.
This is the kind of shit that gives a venue a bad name...
+17 for Tim. Sursly. George, he knows what he's talking about.
As a VerTec 4888 owner myself, I don't deploy ANYTHING under 4bx/side. Never. Haven't done it. People have asked, and I said no. (For mains/outfiils/delays; this doesn't negate the use of 1 bx bits for front fills. But I've not needed to do that either; I have VRX for those.) Company here in the area used to deploy 3bx hangs for an art museum's event space. That's it. They had 10 more in their shop, but only sent out 6 for these shows. Apparently (I never went to a show there) it didn't sound very good.........
Regarding the processing that Tim alluded to- you just cannot do that yourself. There's a bunch of HarmanFairyDust® in the settings that Harman provides for All Of Your Favorite DSPs, or the Crown I-Tech amplifier series. You just need that. If you don't use what Harman provides, there is very little chance of you making the 88s sound like they're supposed to-- the reason BEs spec certain PA is that it's a known factor- they know what it will sound like. They can get the tone they want. That's also why BEs generally won't take proprietary/home brew gear- no idea what it is going to do once it's fired up and pounding.
What Tim said: You'll get a bad rep in the area, and find it hard to book shows- both because promoters won't want to use the rig, and also because as people realize it sounds bad (the audience- and they won't know WHAT they don't like about it-- just that it doesn't sound right!) then attendance will drop off, and promoters aren't going to book a show at a venue that won't sell well.
PM me if you'd like to chat more about VRX and VerTecs- we use both 932LAPs/932LA-1s and VT4888s.
-Ray
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If they try to use the 4888 without appropriate processing, they will soon be on "do not play this room, the PA is FUCKED" list of every act that plays your circuit. Seriously. If your employer does not believe you, PM me with with your phone number and we'll have a little conference call.
This is the kind of shit that gives a venue a bad name...
+1,
I can speak as someone who ran such a rig because management didn't want to pay a tech to do a simple firmware upgrade on their BSS Omnidrive V3 to V4 on their 8 per side 4888 rig. Having a VerTec rig was enough. It didn't matter how it sounded.
If it were me, I would let them know you will do everything in your power to get the rig sounding its best with what you have to work with but that the system is incomplete without the proper processing and the expected results may not be achieved. Keep a positive attitude!
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+1,
I can speak as someone who ran such a rig because management didn't want to pay a tech to do a simple firmware upgrade on their BSS Omnidrive V3 to V4 on their 8 per side 4888 rig. Having a VerTec rig was enough. It didn't matter how it sounded.
If it were me, I would let them know you will do everything in your power to get the rig sounding its best with what you have to work with but that the system is incomplete without the proper processing and the expected results may not be achieved. Keep a positive attitude!
I have had the conversations with the management now and they are giving me a budget for processing needed for some of the systems. Including the RIGHT processing for the vertecs they bought. I count that as a win for the little guy ....
My next questions with the VRX 932s, In that system, we already have them bi-amped with 31 band EQs and active X over and compressors in addition to the X32 we use for FOH. My management wants to know if they REALLY need to buy a Drive Rack 260 for the JBL tunings for the VRX boxes or if I can tune them by ear with the 31 band eq and active x overs and compressors already in place in my signal chain. (If I don't use the cash for the driverack 260, they will buy some extra Senny E935s for bands)
I wanted to see what you all thought, forget about the other functions of the drive rack 260. Would the ability to use JBLs V4 tunings on the driverack make a big difference compared to just using my ears and the 31 band eqs? Like I said, they already agreed to pony up real money for the vertec system but are hesitant about my ear and a 31 band eq versus a driverack with JBL tunings making a decent difference... I myself am curious for those of you using VRX932s with and without the JBL tunings, are they worth it or can you find a sweet spot with your ear and your favorite test tracks for an hour or so?
-G
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I do not know about the 260 on JBL but when I went from the 260 to a EV DX-46 on my QRX rig it came to life like you could not imagine.
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Yes, a graphic eq has fixed point and a fixed response curve. The tunings involve specific filters designed not just to alter frequency response but also phase relationships. 260 is dosscontinued. Too bad you can't get some itechs and do it right.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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My 2 pennies is simple.
The VRX rig will do you well, especially if you have it well processed. I too believe 4 per side is extraneous. 2-3 per side is spot on for a floor level audience. As to the sound? I don't think they sound that great, but they are certainly a better option than many other speakers. With enough work they can sound plenty good. They have a high end cackle that I especially don't appreciate.
The QRX 2x12" is another option I have worked with and again I am not a huge fan. Do they work? Yes. Do they sound great? No. They get loud enough and sound good enough to do the job. It takes a little too much work I feel for them to be a great option.
As to the 4888's I don't have much experience with myself. I have heard several systems that comprised of them though and only 1 of them I would say was good. And that " good " rating is being generous. They sound ok for what they are, but you can easily tell when they were not set up right. The one system that I did hear that was set up mostly correctly, was for a play I attended. It had a " sound ", lets say that, but that sound was ok and I could hear everything well. I left another show I paid good money to see because it sounded so bad; for an idea of how bad they can sound when not set up right.
Interestingly the best sounds I have heard come from an LA system have been from D&B Audioteknic rigs. Of the few I have directly dealt with and the other few I have been in attendance of the show, they seem to me to sound the best. Having experience with the setup and the prediction software for the D&B Q series, I can say that it is not a very magical thing. Enter the proper parameters and the prediction software tells you pretty much everything you need to know. I have also worked with a few Meyer rigs in my time and I wasn't that impressed with them either. Perhaps D&B is on to something? I had an L-Acoustics Arc system that I worked with once, it was also astonishingly easy to set up and work with. Maybe it is just a Lab Gruppen thing? In either case the processing seems to be where it is at.
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For one company I do a lot of work with we use EV QRX212 2 per side over 2 QRX 218 for a series of outdoor shows. I have never been a real fan of them but I am very fussy. I feel that the stock horn orientation doesn’t work well for more than 1 per side. To splay them far enough apart for the horns to work in the standard horn orientation, the 12’ drivers are now too far apart. We rotated the horns and just did one show so far with them like that. This is outdoors and the audience is wide and deep and I think the coverage with the horns rotated seems to be more along the lines of what we need and they seem to work together better this way. We are using a DBX 4800 to control them in passive mode. I would love to try an EV processor if it has the FIR filter setting for them.
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On our QRX212 two per side we have the horns rotated so there is an outer and an inner. We have them marked on the back and still gap them in the front about a fist width.
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On our QRX212 two per side we have the horns rotated so there is an outer and an inner. We have them marked on the back and still gap them in the front about a fist width.
That is how we are now doing it also.
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On our QRX212 two per side we have the horns rotated so there is an outer and an inner. We have them marked on the back and still gap them in the front about a fist width.
I have mine with about a fist between the fronts too, biamped with tunings from EV for my DSP and normal horn position.
I used the SMAART Spectrograph outdoors with them elevated 4' and walked the mic back and forth 10' out and adjusted for the least damage.
No changes in over 10 years.
Biamping them made a huge improvement. Perhaps getting the EV processor would be even better?
To the OP, get the right processor (not an old discontinued bottom of the pro line) and power them per JBL. Don't try to fake it. You can't do it by ear.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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To the OP, get the right processor (not an old discontinued bottom of the pro line) and power them per JBL. Don't try to fake it. You can't do it by ear.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Spot on. V5 processing on the VRX is a completely different speaker. Zero chance you will get it close on your own. We own itech12k HD amps and the difference between the old presets and the v5 is like a major speaker upgrade. Especially with the VRX.
Grey box/black box processing is just at a point where if you use JBL you get far better sound out of v5. Likewise when we used EAW KF650's the difference between our dialed in processing and the UX8800 Grey box was like upgrading several levels on sound quality. The limiting alone can be worth the money in saving you blown speakers, but I have found BE's and rental clients are always happy with the rig on grey box settings.
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I came across this old topic and thought that 6 years later I'd mention that my most successful system in one particular theatre just happens to be the VRX (passive version, as we had piles of amps already). I first came across the VRX when we flew out to Portugal and a VRX system was setup for the corporate show on a sort of desert island. I really loved the sound - it just sounded nice and clean and the small size of the boxes and the hardware intrigued me. Back home we look after a seasonal 1400 seater that does mainly 'light entertainment' and comedy, plus dance shows. No in-house gear so the kit goes in around June and by October it's out again. It is very wide, and very deep, but not at all tall - in front of the stage it's 6m to the ceiling but at the rear the ceiling is 2.5m. The snag with every system is that practically everyone ground stacks because typical line arrays take too long to rig for one-nighters. Also they all seemed to be too loud at the front and too quiet at the back. The low ceiling and width making delays too low, and a drop down follow spot box making them ineffective anyway. The JBLs are working freally well. The constant curvature design means that with the rear switches we get a counter to the drop off of HF with distance and the rake of the seating. a flown sub and 3 932's each side with a slight toe-in do the job nicely, and we have another ground stacked cluster of subs each side on the floor, with two more 932s aiming in to centre for the front rows. Apron edge fills would be better, but the one-nighters often make this placement impossible. The result is impressive. Our old system was an elderly EAW system and because the get-in is a bit of a box push, people would come in, look and then bring their own kit in. With the JBL, people ask to hear it, we play them a track, and they often leave their PA on the truck and just bring in monitors. The internet seems to really not like them, but my ears are very happy with them.
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I came across this old topic and thought that 6 years later I'd mention that my most successful system in one particular theatre just happens to be the VRX (passive version, as we had piles of amps already). I first came across the VRX when we flew out to Portugal and a VRX system was setup for the corporate show on a sort of desert island. I really loved the sound - it just sounded nice and clean and the small size of the boxes and the hardware intrigued me. Back home we look after a seasonal 1400 seater that does mainly 'light entertainment' and comedy, plus dance shows. No in-house gear so the kit goes in around June and by October it's out again. It is very wide, and very deep, but not at all tall - in front of the stage it's 6m to the ceiling but at the rear the ceiling is 2.5m. The snag with every system is that practically everyone ground stacks because typical line arrays take too long to rig for one-nighters. Also they all seemed to be too loud at the front and too quiet at the back. The low ceiling and width making delays too low, and a drop down follow spot box making them ineffective anyway. The JBLs are working freally well. The constant curvature design means that with the rear switches we get a counter to the drop off of HF with distance and the rake of the seating. a flown sub and 3 932's each side with a slight toe-in do the job nicely, and we have another ground stacked cluster of subs each side on the floor, with two more 932s aiming in to centre for the front rows. Apron edge fills would be better, but the one-nighters often make this placement impossible. The result is impressive. Our old system was an elderly EAW system and because the get-in is a bit of a box push, people would come in, look and then bring their own kit in. With the JBL, people ask to hear it, we play them a track, and they often leave their PA on the truck and just bring in monitors. The internet seems to really not like them, but my ears are very happy with them.
Long ago I realized that very rarely what people hype on the internet as "so much better" or "blows away such and such" or other typical line, is actually true. The differences are so minor and subjective, along with how they are setup and mixed, that it's just not worth buying into the hype. Sure a JBL JRX is going to suck compared to an SRX, but within comparable product levels the gap is small. Those who say the QSC's suck compared to Yamaha or JBL or whoever else is the flavour of the month, are just trying to justify their own purchases.
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I came across this old topic and thought that 6 years later I'd mention that my most successful system in one particular theatre just happens to be the VRX (passive version, as we had piles of amps already). I first came across the VRX when we flew out to Portugal and a VRX system was setup for the corporate show on a sort of desert island. I really loved the sound - it just sounded nice and clean and the small size of the boxes and the hardware intrigued me. Back home we look after a seasonal 1400 seater that does mainly 'light entertainment' and comedy, plus dance shows. No in-house gear so the kit goes in around June and by October it's out again. It is very wide, and very deep, but not at all tall - in front of the stage it's 6m to the ceiling but at the rear the ceiling is 2.5m. The snag with every system is that practically everyone ground stacks because typical line arrays take too long to rig for one-nighters. Also they all seemed to be too loud at the front and too quiet at the back. The low ceiling and width making delays too low, and a drop down follow spot box making them ineffective anyway. The JBLs are working freally well. The constant curvature design means that with the rear switches we get a counter to the drop off of HF with distance and the rake of the seating. a flown sub and 3 932's each side with a slight toe-in do the job nicely, and we have another ground stacked cluster of subs each side on the floor, with two more 932s aiming in to centre for the front rows. Apron edge fills would be better, but the one-nighters often make this placement impossible. The result is impressive. Our old system was an elderly EAW system and because the get-in is a bit of a box push, people would come in, look and then bring their own kit in. With the JBL, people ask to hear it, we play them a track, and they often leave their PA on the truck and just bring in monitors. The internet seems to really not like them, but my ears are very happy with them.
The VRX is a well thought out product *for what it is*. I've mixed a bunch of corporate gigs on them. What I do not like about them is what happens in the horizontal plane, and that characteristic is common to all products with the same format. If I ignore that (like clients seem to do), I can mix on them as well as any other loudspeaker system of similar quality.
Certainly there are worse speaker systems out there (JBL makes a couple of those, too). The VRX hits a particular price/feature/value point that other manufacturers also pursue, so there is a market for them regardless of perceived shortcomings.
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The VRX is a well thought out product *for what it is*. I've mixed a bunch of corporate gigs on them. What I do not like about them is what happens in the horizontal plane, and that characteristic is common to all products with the same format. If I ignore that (like clients seem to do), I can mix on them as well as any other loudspeaker system of similar quality.
Certainly there are worse speaker systems out there (JBL makes a couple of those, too). The VRX hits a particular price/feature/value point that other manufacturers also pursue, so there is a market for them regardless of perceived shortcomings.
A former contributor here who now works for a manufacturer owns an AV company. He bought truckloads of VRX, doing corporate events. I think he would call it a lucrative investment. Say you need 60x boxes to cover a giant convention hall (mains plus delays) plus breakouts, etc. While everyone knows the constant curvature won’t scale to a large crowd, there is VTX to handle that. Sound quality? Absolutely a non-issue.
On the sales call, “JBL” seals the deal. That’s all that matters. I visited one of his rigs in the convention center here in STL and it’s just as I described. And it “sounded” fine. Consistent coverage, good to go.
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My next questions with the VRX 932s, In that system, we already have them bi-amped with 31 band EQs and active X over and compressors in addition to the X32 we use for FOH. My management wants to know if they REALLY need to buy a Drive Rack 260 for the JBL tunings for the VRX boxes or if I can tune them by ear with the 31 band eq and active x overs and compressors already in place in my signal chain. (If I don't use the cash for the driverack 260, they will buy some extra Senny E935s for bands)
Using a DriveRack (or other processor) can do many additional things over a simple EQ. Delay timing, phase adjust, etc. In reality, you could scrap the eqs and JUST use a DR260 if you wanted to.
The question is though, have they bought the boxes yet? Do you need (or want) 4 per side? These are not 'line array' boxes in the traditional sense that you get better pattern control with more boxes. They are a constant curvature array. More boxes simply means more vertical coverage. Chances are with 4 boxes, you're going to start having a lot of spill to the floor or to the ceiling which makes things worse, not better.
If you cut down to 3 boxes a side, now you've freed up a big chunk of budget that you can use for processing, or to make it even easier, an iTech amplifier that already has processing built in so you don't need more bits and pieces.
Sell off the EQs and existing amps you have and put in a complete happy system.
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For what it is worth, YEARS later on this thread (2016) the VRX932 have been our main rig, convinced them to not buy Vertec w/o processing and the VRXs have been used and abused routinely for years without failure. Very heavy EQ applied and I have been pleased with them 3 a side with front fills for lots of shows. Not my favorite but they paid for themselves over and over.
With that being said, the QRX 212s are still hands down my favorite mid level boxes for being smooth as butter. Lots of MI grade powered boxes with FIR filters finally have caught up but the QRX212 will always be one of my favorites. They stay in storage for small shows and I'll probably have them for another 10-20 years (already 12+ years old).
-G
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The VRXs are a money making box; I really like them. As others have said they’re reliable, get loud, and can sound pretty good with the V5 presets. Be ready to EQ a bit out around 1.5-3kHz, as they can be a bit bright in that area, but properly setup and RTAd they sound fine and get the job done.
With that being said, I wonder if this would be a lateral move for you. I’m not sure how many riders the VRX would fill that your QRX would not. As you know the VRX isn’t a true line array, which is both a good and a bad thing depending on the situation. I like the VRXs for how light and easy to rig they are; they can be flown, put on a pole, or used as front fills all very easily. This flexibility means they go out all the time in plenty of jobs. But for a permanent install, I’d look at the JBL VT4886; it’s a better sounding box in my opinion, has a symmetrical coverage, and may satisfy more riders than the VRX. If you’re not taking it up and down at the end of the night, those little boxes allow you to adjust the angle better than the VRX which is fixed angle.
For sound quality alone, I’d look at other options if you need an upgrade. But if you want to be able to fly them, have that “line array” look, not block sight lines etc, I’m sure the VRXs would pay off. Also, the matching VRX subs (active or passive) are fantastic in my opinion and get deeper than many other subs in that size. They’re also incredibly small.