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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Jeff M Hague on January 14, 2021, 01:07:52 pm

Title: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Jeff M Hague on January 14, 2021, 01:07:52 pm
These are the mains from the earlier post asking about DSP replacements.
No one at the church knows what they are and no paperwork from the original install exists.
All  I know is they are EAW. Looks like either d12 or possibly d15 lows, 6" horn loaded mid and maybe a 2" high on a CD lens. Because of their age I am guessing they are loaded with JBL drivers. There is a passive crossover between the mid and high so the box is essentially 2way as far as the DSP is concerned.
Does anyone know what model these are so I can get a better idea of where to start with crossover settings?
Thanks!

Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Doug Fowler on January 14, 2021, 05:08:44 pm
These are the mains from the earlier post asking about DSP replacements.
No one at the church knows what they are and no paperwork from the original install exists.
All  I know is they are EAW. Looks like either d12 or possibly d15 lows, 6" horn loaded mid and maybe a 2" high on a CD lens. Because of their age I am guessing they are loaded with JBL drivers. There is a passive crossover between the mid and high so the box is essentially 2way as far as the DSP is concerned.
Does anyone know what model these are so I can get a better idea of where to start with crossover settings?
Thanks!

If they are what I think they are, they sound pretty darn good in passive mode.  We pulled one out of an install to test, and if the passive Xover is in good shape you might consider doing things that way.  Can't recall a model number, sorry.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Jeff M Hague on January 14, 2021, 05:44:04 pm
If they are what I think they are, they sound pretty darn good in passive mode.  We pulled one out of an install to test, and if the passive Xover is in good shape you might consider doing things that way.  Can't recall a model number, sorry.

They do sound good - I was quite surprised! But I was totally guessing at the crossover. Especially because of the layout of the cab. Front loaded lows and mids are pretty true to the driver but these are not front loaded. The 6" is on a horn and the lows - I think there is 1 driver pointing straight up in to a chamber, 1 pointing straight daown in to a chamber and the box behind both is ported. Ive seen that arrangement before even recently. I think the JBL PRX835 is loaded that way. I dont know what thats called though.
There is a pair of EAW d18s under the stage and I crossed those at 100HZ. Crossed the low section of the cabinets in the picture at 100 and 500 and there is a passive crossover between the mids and highs. Total guess but it sounded decent to tracks Im familiar with. I didnt do any eq on the 260 either. The house eq is in the Soundcraft Si they are using at FOH. Like I said it sounded good and my friend was real happy with it for services the next day so....
Im hoping to identify them so I can at least look at some specs and then go back and do a more thorough job.
I can see the EAW tag on the front but cant see the back. They are 20' in the air and there was no lift or ladder.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on January 14, 2021, 05:49:58 pm
These are the mains from the earlier post asking about DSP replacements.
No one at the church knows what they are and no paperwork from the original install exists.
All  I know is they are EAW. Looks like either d12 or possibly d15 lows, 6" horn loaded mid and maybe a 2" high on a CD lens. Because of their age I am guessing they are loaded with JBL drivers. There is a passive crossover between the mid and high so the box is essentially 2way as far as the DSP is concerned.
Does anyone know what model these are so I can get a better idea of where to start with crossover settings?
Thanks!

Maybe something from the EAW AS line.  Hard to tell though.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Jeff M Hague on January 14, 2021, 05:55:14 pm
Maybe something from the EAW AS line.  Hard to tell though.

And navigating their legacy site is no fun at all...
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on January 14, 2021, 07:57:24 pm
EAW ASR 660's or 690's.

Probably not JBL components, most likely RCF.

Here's a link that will get you close.
https://eaw.com/downloads/#142-558-wpfd-asr660e (https://eaw.com/downloads/#142-558-wpfd-asr660e)

Looks like with passive mid and highs you want to be at 320hz between the mids and lows.
100hz between the lows to the subs would be a good start, maybe a bit lower.
Make sure you have a high pass about 35 to 40 on the 18's.
Dig deeper or call EAW to see if there are any general DSP specs for them.

For the fill speaker hanging under the mains I would high pass them upwards to 200hz.

You mentioned blown speakers in the lobby in the other post, depending on the size and type those should be high passed accordingly as well if they get them replaced.



Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Jeff M Hague on January 15, 2021, 07:50:56 am
EAW ASR 660's or 690's.

Probably not JBL components, most likely RCF.

Here's a link that will get you close.
https://eaw.com/downloads/#142-558-wpfd-asr660e (https://eaw.com/downloads/#142-558-wpfd-asr660e)

Looks like with passive mid and highs you want to be at 320hz between the mids and lows.
100hz between the lows to the subs would be a good start, maybe a bit lower.
Make sure you have a high pass about 35 to 40 on the 18's.
Dig deeper or call EAW to see if there are any general DSP specs for them.

For the fill speaker hanging under the mains I would high pass them upwards to 200hz.

You mentioned blown speakers in the lobby in the other post, depending on the size and type those should be high passed accordingly as well if they get them replaced.

Excellent - thanks so much! They are definitely AS6xx but not sure which. The main differences between the various models is the dispersion of the HF section but this helps a LOT!
The fills hanging below the EAWs are on a separate output on the crossover. I will have to check the filters though. The lobby speakers are the same as the Fills but I am told they are blown. The current residents of the church have never used them. They also have a dedicated output on the crossover.
Thanks again!
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on January 15, 2021, 09:09:10 am
The DBX 260 while an older unit with a dated looking GUI it still a fully programmable unit in terms of IO routing and filter processing.

You mentioned the system was mono, maybe look at setting up the system and DSP for aux fed subs.
One input on the DSP could feed the mains and fills, the other could be just for the subs.

Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Jeff M Hague on January 15, 2021, 10:32:18 am
The DBX 260 while an older unit with a dated looking GUI it still a fully programmable unit in terms of IO routing and filter processing.

You mentioned the system was mono, maybe look at setting up the system and DSP for aux fed subs.
One input on the DSP could feed the mains and fills, the other could be just for the subs.

Yes I have discussed that with their Tech. I don't see any advantage in this situation to go stereo so an aux fed sub would be a good use for the extra input.
They do have plans and apparently budget approval to replace the speaker system as well as the monitors but he does not know how soon. (How they have budget approval without any idea of what they are going to replace things with is beyond me but...) If it is within the next month we likely wont touch anything. Longer than that we may go ahead and make some changes.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 15, 2021, 11:21:35 am

Does anyone know what model these are so I can get a better idea of where to start with crossover settings?
Thanks!
I would start with measuring the individual bands, seeing where they overlap, what the high and low cutoffs are etc, and go from there. 

I like to do individual band eq first, then apply filters, then adjust delay time as needed for a smooth phase response, and then tweak as needed.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on January 15, 2021, 11:31:10 am
Yes I have discussed that with their Tech. I don't see any advantage in this situation to go stereo so an aux fed sub would be a good use for the extra input.
They do have plans and apparently budget approval to replace the speaker system as well as the monitors but he does not know how soon. (How they have budget approval without any idea of what they are going to replace things with is beyond me but...) If it is within the next month we likely wont touch anything. Longer than that we may go ahead and make some changes.

Any idea what there looking as a replacement?

The speakers they have look like and kind of are big ugly speakers but if they are all working good
just putting up a smaller friendly looking speaker could be big step backwards in performance.

You said there were comments on how things sounded better with the 260, with some further refinement in the DSP setup it may sound like a new system.

It wouldn't be the first time a good system was thrown out just for the sake of change when what really was needed was just a system tune up.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Jeff M Hague on January 15, 2021, 11:53:14 am
Any idea what there looking as a replacement?

The speakers they have look like and kind of are big ugly speakers but if they are all working good
just putting up a smaller friendly looking speaker could be big step backwards in performance.

You said there were comments on how things sounded better with the 260, with some further refinement in the DSP setup it may sound like a new system.

It wouldn't be the first time a good system was thrown out just for the sake of change when what really was needed was just a system tune up.

My understanding is the Top Pastor doesn't like how the system looks (and it is not that aesthetic really). He wants a line array like many of the other churches. The Tech is interested in Nexo bc there is an outdoor municipal venue that has Nexo and he has mixed on it quite a bit. I think it is the only line array he has mixed on. I agree that Nexo is a nice bit of kit but we haven't started looking at specifics just yet.
The room could just as easily work with point source though. It isn't all that big - maybe holds 800 1000 max? And it is wider than it is deep (and wider at the back than the front) with no balcony or raked floor. It is also very tame acoustically - no heavy reverb, no noticeable standing waves that I have heard, no slap off the back wall.
I have rocked similar rooms with a pair of JBL SR4732s over 4719s tbh.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on January 15, 2021, 12:01:45 pm
AS-series is good stuff.  I retuned a 600 cap church two years ago with AS mains, JF fills with LA subs, still a good system 15 or something years after it was installed.
If they decide to upgrade and wish to stick with EAW, QX5 would be my first choice. Installed a few systems, never had any complaints.
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Jeff M Hague on January 15, 2021, 12:51:56 pm
AS-series is good stuff.  I retuned a 600 cap church two years ago with AS mains, JF fills with LA subs, still a good system 15 or something years after it was installed.
If they decide to upgrade and wish to stick with EAW, QX5 would be my first choice. Installed a few systems, never had any complaints.

The EAW QX stuff looks very interesting - thanks!
Title: Re: Can anyone ID these speakers?
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on January 15, 2021, 01:11:15 pm
I installed 4 ASR speakers with 2 speakers on each side with an ASR 660 on top with an ASR 690 underneath. I used an XTA DP226 DSP. The top speaker was aimed at the balcony and the bottom one to the main floor and we also had under balcony fills. The recommended settings are probably available on EAWs web site or if you send me a PM with your email address I will send you what I have. They sounded very good, the dual 12-inwoofers are separated vertically to create a dipolar array, giving a directionality to them.

I like line array speakers when it is called for and it really bothers me when people waste the money putting them in where they are not called for. And of course they are usually putting in a very inferior speaker system because they could never afford a line array that would work properly in the room. The funny thing with the EAW ASR speakers hung the way we did was some people though it was a line array because the bottom one was hung from the top one. We bought then in plain wood and had them custom stained to match the wood in the room. They were big but no one complained because they sounded so good. And they match the interior of the church.

The sanctuary that they were in was torn down a few years ago and a new one was built in its place. It is a much different room then the old one. I have no idea what happened to the ASR speakers or a whole lot of the other gear. Their sound guy came down with early onset Alzheimer's and I donít think he knows what he did with stuff.