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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: Justin Smith on April 02, 2015, 12:51:51 PM
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Hello all!
I should know this by now but I just want to double check before I go spending money. I am planning on getting a Yamaha SW218V subwoofer soon (dual 18's). For this cabinet at 4ohms, the RMS is 600W, program is 1200W, and peak is 2400W. I want to keep my amplifiers consistent. I currently have a Behringer EP2000 and a Behringer EP4000. I am looking to get another Behringer EP4000 to power this cabinet. For this amp, the RMS @ 1% THD (sine wave), bridged mode is 2400W at 4ohms and the peak power for bridged mode is 4000W. For 20Hz - 20kHz @ 0.1% THD, both channels driven it is 950W at 4ohms and 1400W peak power. Is this amp too powerful or would it work okay? I know the "general rules" for picking the right amplifier for speakers but I always forget if I should follow RMS power or program power for the subs.
Thanks!
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Hello all!
I should know this by now but I just want to double check before I go spending money. I am planning on getting a Yamaha SW218V subwoofer soon (dual 18's). For this cabinet at 4ohms, the RMS is 600W, program is 1200W, and peak is 2400W. I want to keep my amplifiers consistent. I currently have a Behringer EP2000 and a Behringer EP4000. I am looking to get another Behringer EP4000 to power this cabinet. For this amp, the RMS @ 1% THD (sine wave), bridged mode is 2400W at 4ohms and the peak power for bridged mode is 4000W. For 20Hz - 20kHz @ 0.1% THD, both channels driven it is 950W at 4ohms and 1400W peak power. Is this amp too powerful or would it work okay? I know the "general rules" for picking the right amplifier for speakers but I always forget if I should follow RMS power or program power for the subs.
Thanks!
Quit thinking so hard and go make some noise.
Yes, the EP4000 will work. Although it might not be enough to drive the cab to 100% performance, idk. I've heard those 4000's were rebadged 2500's with new "creative" specs.
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Quit thinking so hard and go make some noise.
Yes, the EP4000 will work. Although it might not be enough to drive the cab to 100% performance, idk. I've heard those 4000's were rebadged 2500's with new "creative" specs.
Haha. Gotcha, thank you! I haven't had a problem with either of my Behringer amps yet, hopefully it stays like that. So for future knowledge, should I match amp up with the sub's RMS or program noise?
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Haha. Gotcha, thank you! I haven't had a problem with either of my Behringer amps yet, hopefully it stays like that. So for future knowledge, should I match amp up with the sub's RMS or program noise?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+much+amplifier+power+do+i+need&l=1
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+much+amplifier+power+do+i+need&l=1
Never seen that before! Haha. Thanks!
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How about 1 higher quality, smaller sub vs 1 larger, cheap one? Maybe powered?
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How about 1 higher quality, smaller sub vs 1 larger, cheap one? Maybe powered?
I really want to do that but I currently already have all passive equipment and I am not looking to change at the moment. I will in the future but now is the time. I was looking at the Mackie SRM1850 but again, that is powered and I have all passive equipment.
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How about 1 higher quality, smaller sub vs 1 larger, cheap one? Maybe powered?
What brands would you recommend? Would Mackie and JBL be part of them? It seems like every sub I look at that aren't those two brands get called cheap and bad quality. Unfortunately, those two brands aren't really in my price range right now, being a college student.
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It all depends on what you are trying to do with the sub.
Rock? DJ? Bluegrass? EDM?
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It all depends on what you are trying to do with the sub.
Rock? DJ? Bluegrass? EDM?
Mostly EDM for college parties and what not. So it may sound bad, but I'm looking for more of a punch with the subs rather than clear quality if that makes sense?
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It all depends on what you are trying to do with the sub.
Rock? DJ? Bluegrass? EDM?
I currently have two Behringer VP1800 and two Behringer VP2520. I haven't had any problems with them but they just aren't giving me as much bass as I want anymore. I am constantly pushing them to their clipping point. I know I have been told by others on this forum that adding subs won't help and that I should invest in higher end subs and sell the ones I have but I am not looking to do that so I am trying to find a different route. Any sub suggestions for a passive system would help. Or the best way to mix passive and active (which I've been told I shouldn't do).
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Mostly EDM for college parties
In that case power the subs to something around the RMS rating and keep the amps out of clipping, in other words 1 channel of an EP4000 per 218 should do it.
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Unfortunately you are bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Until you can buy some badass subs, you just won't get satisfactory performance for edm.
And there's nothing inherently wrong with mixing powered and unpowered gear. It just means you have to run more cables.
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Mostly EDM for college parties and what not. So it may sound bad, but I'm looking for more of a punch with the subs rather than clear quality if that makes sense?
EDM (done right anyway) requires MUCH MORE subbage than other styles.
It just depends on what the budget and what you are trying to "achieve".
Here is a link to a "college EDM party" I did last weekend.
We were providing a good "full body experience" out of 4 speakers (2 tops and 2 subs). At least until we had to turn down due to complaints 4-5 miles away :(
However these were not budget speakers.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1070611356301576
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It just means you have to run more cables.
I am ok with that. But I was told by other people on here that it isn't a good idea. I'm really indecisive of what subs I want right now because of my budget.
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EDM (done right anyway) requires MUCH MORE subbage than other styles.
Right, that's why I am trying to add more subs. As I said in the other post just now, I am just really indecisive of what subs I want to get right now because of my current budget. I currently have two Behringer VP1800s and I like them but I just need more bass now.
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The easiest thing is to get more of what you have. Especially if you like them.
What you don't necessarily want to do is to mix and match different types of subs. They don't always play nice with each other. That may have been what the advice was about.
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Right, that's why I am trying to add more subs. As I said in the other post just now, I am just really indecisive of what subs I want to get right now because of my current budget. I currently have two Behringer VP1800s and I like them but I just need more bass now.
A wise man (one of my early mentors) pointed out to me that is far better to use fewer quality pieces of gear-rather than more "cheap stuff".
All you get with more "cheap stuff" is louder sounding crap.
But as Tim pointed out-it may be better to just get more of the same.
If you start to mix and match- you can actually end up with LESS sound at some freq, due to cancellations of different phase responses.
Yes there are exceptions, but you need to measure to be sure.
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EDM (done right anyway) requires MUCH MORE subbage than other styles.
It just depends on what the budget and what you are trying to "achieve".
Here is a link to a "college EDM party" I did last weekend.
We were providing a good "full body experience" out of 4 speakers (2 tops and 2 subs). At least until we had to turn down due to complaints 4-5 miles away :(
However these were not budget speakers.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1070611356301576
Which tops and subs did you use?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Which tops and subs did you use?
BC218 subs and SM80 tops.
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BC218 subs and SM80 tops.
The amps were a EDA12K for the subs and a DLA7500 for the SM80s.
The 80s were in stereo up on scaffolding, and the subs were in the middle and summed mono.
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A wise man (one of my early mentors) pointed out to me that is far better to use fewer quality pieces of gear-rather than more "cheap stuff".
All you get with more "cheap stuff" is louder sounding crap.
But as Tim pointed out-it may be better to just get more of the same.
If you start to mix and match- you can actually end up with LESS sound at some freq, due to cancellations of different phase responses.
Yes there are exceptions, but you need to measure to be sure.
Gotcha. Well if I happen to get two more of the subs that I already have plus the amp, it would be close to the same price as a restock Mackie SRM1850. So my final question (excluding quality) is what do you think would be best for me in the situation that I have explained? The powered Mackie SRM1850 rated at 800W RMS or two more unpowered Behringer VP1800S rated at 400W RMS? I was looking at the specs of each but I am not sure how to match them to see if they would be "compatible" in terms of canceling each other out. Keep in mind I also already have a crossover for my passive system right now. Any help on this would be great! I was set on buying two more of what I already have but the Mackie SRM1850 looks so nice to me.
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Gotcha. Well if I happen to get two more of the subs that I already have plus the amp, it would be close to the same price as a restock Mackie SRM1850. So my final question (excluding quality) is what do you think would be best for me in the situation that I have explained? The powered Mackie SRM1850 rated at 800W RMS or two more unpowered Behringer VP1800S rated at 400W RMS? I was looking at the specs of each but I am not sure how to match them to see if they would be "compatible" in terms of canceling each other out. Keep in mind I also already have a crossover for my passive system right now. Any help on this would be great! I was set on buying two more of what I already have but the Mackie SRM1850 looks so nice to me.
I would NEVER consider mixing power and non powered gear together.
WITHOUT proper measurement-knowlege and processing power to be able to control/adjust if needed.
The main reason is that the delay in the powered version is probably unknown.
yes you might could "play around A LOT" and get lucky with getting the different cabinets to "play well together", but in most cases (without proper measurement) it would be a guessing game.
Buy more of what you already have is the best 'known" approach.
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I would NEVER consider mixing power and non powered gear together.
WITHOUT proper measurement-knowlege and processing power to be able to control/adjust if needed.
The main reason is that the delay in the powered version is probably unknown.
yes you might could "play around A LOT" and get lucky with getting the different cabinets to "play well together", but in most cases (without proper measurement) it would be a guessing game.
Buy more of what you already have is the best 'known" approach.
Sounds good! Thanks for the advice!
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The Behringer VP are one of least expensive subs on the market. You could sell them and use the 300 toward something listenable. If they are the 400 watt model the drivers are real weak. The new ones have 800w drivers with a decent magnet structure. You need to at least reinforce the cabinets with a solid horizontal brace. The divider in between the vents is very susceptible to breaking. I would suggest reinforcing that too. Put some screws in too the staples are inadequate. Lastly solder the speaker wires.
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The Behringer VP are one of least expensive subs on the market. You could sell them and use the 300 toward something listenable. If they are the 400 watt model the drivers are real weak. The new ones have 800w drivers with a decent magnet structure. You need to at least reinforce the cabinets with a solid horizontal brace. The divider in between the vents is very susceptible to breaking. I would suggest reinforcing that too. Put some screws in too the staples are inadequate. Lastly solder the speaker wires.
Ok. Thanks for the advice! I know everyone says these are really cheap but I have had both for more than a year now and I move them around a lot and I haven't had any problems at all. Lets hope I dont jinx it.
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Ok. Thanks for the advice! I know everyone says these are really cheap but I have had both for more than a year now and I move them around a lot and I haven't had any problems at all. Lets hope I dont jinx it.
Trade the B'ringers in on the Yamaha 218's Justin. They will represent a real step up from what you have now, just as going from the yamahas to Danley th 118s would be another real step up. The B'ringers are "entry level spkrs" They serve a purpose of getting you started out with a minimal investment but the problem with entry level equipment is it will not let you to stand out from a crowd, -even a small one.
The yammers are working class. They allow you to have some fun and make some money. While still fairly common, they will get 'r' done at a lot of smaller parties and clubs. A critical difference going forward is you can hook them up to an amp that puts an honest 1000+ watts into 4 ohms with less worry about blowing them up! If after a year or 2 the yammies are paid 4 and your getting a bit of a name for your skills, you can sell them to one of the many bands/djs eager to find a deal on a good set of used double 18 boxes, and start thinking about getting some "world class" subs with serious (137 db+) output below 100 hz. The best stuff is never cheap so save some coinage everytime you get paid. In the meantime study the coupling and dispersion effects of multiple source arrays so you can begin to understand things like power alleys, nulls, cardioid, end fire and center source deployment of subwoofers.
May you have some fun with more and deeper low end!
Chuck
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I always don't know what to say when someone says they have had no quality problems. My concern is not to run down your stuff but to discourage others from wasting their money. The construction is very weak sometimes they don't make shipping intact. The sound is another story, they don't meet the expectations of the average cover band or decent DJ.
Gear is an investment in your trade. You came to a forum comprised of folks that take their craft seriously. Invest in yourself with training and gear that will allow you to deliver a quality product.
On the plus side decent gear holds resale very well.
Best of luck and welcome to the forums.
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Again this is another thread involving 20ish year old technology.
the s218 yamaha sub is an old style low excursion physically big for its volume output box.
If that is all you need fill yer boots and feel good about being the "just take my money" customer the seller is looking for.
welcome to a forum with plenty of crotchety old geezers offering free advice on how not to spend your money. Most were around when all this stuff was new and did offer extreme value for money, currently the 20 year old tech does not.
Don't let me discourage you in the slightest, it might be just what you need for the moment but in under a years time you will likely realize something new and self powered (4 times output 1/2 the size) might have been the answer in the first place and the real power yo have as a consumer is to keep your cash in pocket for future purchases. Financing a purchase or long term lease are reasonably easy things to do these days seeing as credit crunch is over as is hiring a dry rental till you know exactly your needs.
Will a customer oooo and ahhh over your yamaha fur box rig? nope its far more likely to send you packing or tell your band to not hire the guy with the antiques....
rant mode off