Jim Bowersox wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 09:54 |
When engaged, the console has a wide-Q curve when EQ is boosted and a somewhat more narrow-Q when cut. I found myself using less EQ than I normally would on this desk. Whether or not this was a function of the different EQ feature of the desk, I'm not sure, but I liked it |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 12:04 |
that asymettrical cut/boost is just on the high and low sweeps when you've got them in bell mode, as opposed to shelf mode. The two swept mids have the option of symmetrical cut/bost either wide or narrow... I think they're 1 octave and 1/3 octave, respectively, but don't hold me to it. The cut on the high and low shelves is 1/4 octave. |
Jim Bowersox wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 10:07 |
I'll bet the APB design team all have small fingers...those little buttons take a little getting used to by a large-handed individual like myself. |
John Horvath wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 14:19 |
Thank you for the nice review, Jim & Brian. Couple questions though.. How's the build quality? Due to the lack of high-res pics, or ANY pics for that matter, for some reason the console has a Biamp/Phonic look to it. Are the pots nutted? Are the jacks plastic? And is there built in pink noise or external pink/osc output? With the amount of Smaart users nowadays, it's my opinion every mid-priced console should have built in pink noise with an external output. |
John Roberts {JR} wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 14:29 |
Wow? A "Biamp/Phonic look"... that's really cold dude. |
Grayson Rech wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 15:27 |
I just noticed that for the master outputs there is only one fader next to the 8th VCA. Maybe I'm old school or just picky but does anyone else find it a but odd that there aren't 2 or 3 master (L R C) faders for a great console like this? In my decision between Soundcraft MH2, Spectra-T and AH GL4800 (no VCAs) It was my top choice until I noticed that . . . Someone please give me a great reason or modivation to get past this unpleasantry. blarn it blarn it blarn it Grayson "the Sad hoobster" Rech |
John Horvath wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 14:46 |
Well, doesn't it though? I'm very excited about hearing this console, but only after Jim & Brian's reviews of it's sound quality. The MH2/3 definitely win in the aestetic appeal and overall 'look of quality' category. I guess the good thing is APB spent their time on building a great sounding console as opposed to a great looking console. |
Grayson Rech wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 15:27 |
I just noticed that for the master outputs there is only one fader next to the 8th VCA. |
Jim Bowersox wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 16:21 |
Pots are nutted |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 13:27 | ||
Of course... otherwise you'd be changing your levels (and maybe crosspoints) between parts of your speaker system (L,C,R and Sub, potentially) whenever you adjusted it. A properly put together PA shouldn't have that happen to it. |
Jim Bowersox wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 15:34 |
They're not nutted? My B. They felt like they were. They certainly didn't have the amount of "play" that I've experienced in my former FOH console. -JB |
John Roberts {JR} wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 17:53 |
Likewise there was a comment in passing about use of plastic jacks... Any use of jack nuts for structural attachment/support is questionable design practice whether it's metal or plastic. The difference between good/bad mechanical design is not quite that easy to discern from casual inspection or assumptions based on components used. I recall in the past using metal nuts instead of plastic on a mixer because of so many customers who judge the book by it's cover. (FWIW the cost difference between metal and plastic nuts was a fraction of a cent per.) |
Fred Merkle wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 17:59 |
Secondly, I also believe that in terms of shielding and immunity, having a metal jack and jack nut with properly masked chassis (or lock washer of sorts) is far superior to plastic jacks. I'm especially concerned about it in this day and age of GSM. |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 18:15 |
Wouldn't the chassis act as a faraday cage? |
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It's certainly properly "grounded" to the signal reference... I'd think that incoming cables (which are outside) of the shield would be much more of a problem, but seeing as the whole design team was there with myself and a few other LABsters at SynAudCon Hums, Buzz, and RF I doubt you'll be able to get the console to have any sort of noise susceptibility. |
Alexandre Richer wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 21:38 |
http://www.apbdynasonics.com/Downloads/Photos/SpectraPhoto1_ 300dpi.jpg |
Rick Stansby wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 18:39 |
Does anybody know what that little hole is next to the line in jacks? I think it is labeled "Ext In". |
Fred Merkle wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 18:35 |
Your faraday cage is only as good as the holes in it... |
Fred Merkle wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 18:35 |
That's easy enough to test out. Do you have a GSM phone? (preferably a Treo) Set it on the console and call it. See what happens when you move it around. |
Fred Merkle wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 16:59 |
What do you expect the jack to be supported by? The PCB? I think there's still very good reason for using nuts as physical attachment points to provide support. Secondly, I also believe that in terms of shielding and immunity, having a metal jack and jack nut with properly masked chassis (or lock washer of sorts) is far superior to plastic jacks. I'm especially concerned about it in this day and age of GSM. I certainly agree with you though, that metal or plastic jacks provide very little insight into the quality of the overall mechanical design. There are always price points and manufacturing constraints to deal with. -Fred |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 00:17 |
... there are (three?) expansion slots by the master section that let you plug in external inputs (like CAT-5 from a digital snake) and then you bypass the console's pres and use your alternate input by pressing that recessed switch. |
John Petrucelli wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 23:07 |
Sorry, had to break into JR and Fred's "discussion" of metal and plastic jacks. Just to be clear, we use metal bushing jacks with metal nuts on the Spectra in all locations that call for Sleeve=Chassis. The jacks have pointy barbs at the base of the bushing that dig into the metalwork when the nuts are tightened to make a solid electrical connection. For the XLRs, we use the type that provide a Pin-1 to Chassis connection at the mounting screw. Again, these have a small barb at the mounting locations to insure good chassis contact. I think that most Pro gear these days would use these same components- the connector manufacturers have been quite good at responding to the audio industry's requests for better "grounding". Thanks, JP |
John Roberts {JR} wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 19:29 |
I am not going to write a tutorial on packaging and there are folks much better than I at that game, but better 1/4" jacks have screw bosses in them so they can be screwed down to the PCB. Even lower labor approaches involve solid bosses that nest into holes in the PCB to strain relief the forces from insertion/removal cycles. The fastest way to fatigue and trash a solder connection is to make it structural. Likewise if you have tens of 1/4" jacks in a PCB you need to resist the temptation to use that for fastening, although I suspect many smaller low cost (disposable) products do that (who me? ) . |
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What exactly do you expect the metal barrel on a 1/4" jack to shield, the ground lead? With modern powder coating and metal treatments getting a proper ground even with metal nuts isn't insured. |
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Good quality plastic jacks can even have special piercing ground contacts to cut into the panel chassis and make a decent quality ground connection. This is often adequate for shielding, not for high current safety ground bonding. |
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If you're a customer tho' of course you're right. |
Fred Merkle wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 09:55 |
As I stated before. You and I are (mostly) in agreement. Metal jacks and metal nuts do not imply good design practice. (Now here's the part that I'm not sure whether we agree on.) Metal jacks and metal nuts do not imply bad design practice or even poor design choice. You really have to either respect a manufacturer's technical competence or test for yourself. -Fred |
Grayson Rech wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 14:22 |
Lastly, thank you Mac for pointing out the lack of subgroups. I knew it did not have subgroups but until this moment I didn't think of the impacts of my style of mixing as I was focusing more in the VCA realm. Without subgroups how could I insert processing over a select group of channels? As always thanks to all who help sharpen my knowledge and give me a different perspective. Greatfull, Grayson Rech |
Grayson Rech wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 14:22 |
Lastly, thank you Mac for pointing out the lack of subgroups. I knew it did not have subgroups but until this moment I didn't think of the impacts of my style of mixing as I was focusing more in the VCA realm. Without subgroups how could I insert processing over a select group of channels? |
Mac Kerr wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 13:35 |
The XL3 and I think the XL4 follow the same method as Dynasonics. |
Grayson Rech wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 19:22 |
So the "get through it" kicked in and ended up running that side 20db hotter than the other. ... Now try and do that on a single fader console quickly. |
Tim McCulloch wrote on Wed, 24 May 2006 04:21 |
Rick- The dbx 120 a "sub-harmonic sythesizer" that has a sub/main crossover function of 6dB/oct. but from what I can tell, left/right control is ganged. Tim Mc |
John Petrucelli wrote on Thu, 25 May 2006 16:33 |
Teri wrote: "This console has more quality features than anything on the market in its price range. As Chuck told me, "We wanted to make a console that would allow production companies to make money." What a concept!" Hey, wait a minute ... Chuck told us that we're building this Console so that WE could make some money ... |
Teri wrote on Mon, 29 May 2006 19:20 |
I still haven't figured out how to use the on-board talk-back mic on the surface, though. |
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We're considering buying a large-frame Spectra-T and using it as a monitor desk for this season until Chuck and the boys get me a real monitor desk, so this was truly a test demonstration and it passes all my tests. |
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 01 June 2006 00:47 |
Could have used a Spectra-T at my show yesterday and today where a failed digital board got replaced with an aging Ramsa WR-S4424 |
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OK Bink, spit it out. What happened? |
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...Ditto on all the cool jack field features mentioned already, and flipping the jacks so one can get to the locks in such tight quarters definitely blew me away... |
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...I like the variable intensity LED labeled CV on each input that tells you how much all the VCA assignments on it are opened up--what the effective level adds up to. -Bink |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 14:01 |
Chuck is fond of saying to me: "We can make good products because we've made every possible mistake in the past". |
John Roberts {JR} wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:42 |
That's why console designers have flat foreheads from smacking themselves with the heel of their hand with every new discovery. |
Andy Peters wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 16:12 |
Dimwit Flathead PS: two bucks via paypal to the first person who gets that reference. |
Rob Burgess wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 13:25 | ||
According to Wikipedia it's from the Zork games. |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 14:27 |
I highly suggest anyone looking into a reliable (dual psu and robust circuit board construction), great sounding, powerful mixing board get a demo. I know it's at the top of my Christmas list. |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 14:27 |
By the way, I took some photos from my first APB factory visit a few months ago, thought I'd post them here: http://www.campuspa.com/images/apb/index.html |
Andy Peters wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 16:32 |
You cheated! A real geek would have known it without needing the crutch called Wikipedia -a |
Andy Peters wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 15:12 |
That's not limited to console designers. Signed, Dimwit Flathead PS: two bucks via paypal to the first person who gets that reference. |
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...Wedge output is 1/4", not XLR |
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Aux out pots start at -20 |
Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 17:11 | ||||
You mean the sum of LCR output? I didn't see a dedicated cue wedge output.
What? Don't the pots have an fully off position? Maybe you mean the level jumps quickly up to -20 with a very small movement of the pot. There wouldn't be a very easy workaround if that were true. |
Bennett Prescott wrote: |
The internal construction is very flexible, making it easy to swap out or move 8-module banks or even the master section around. |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Wed, 06 September 2006 23:03 |
You're right, John, I had double checked that with APB after leaping to a conclusion and they confirmed that there was no way to do it. My apologies. |
Steve Payne wrote on Wed, 28 March 2007 21:51 |
Chuck & JP look like two proud pappas, don't they? |
Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 26 June 2007 19:45 |
My Spectra T case is from LM Engineering. They made it to my spec, full doghouse, casters, all sorts of handles, and composite side panels that are both stronger and lighter than wood. I'm extremely happy with it, and recommend them, my only complaint is they shipped it with 3" casters by default which is not going to be OK, so I'll buy 4" from them and bolt them on myself when I have a chance. |
Jamie Taylor wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 08:04 |
Keagan: They've been in Australia for ages now. The great dudes at Production Audio are the distributors. |
Steve Payne wrote on Sat, 24 March 2007 08:17 |
This is the first "Ti" to roll out of New Jersey. Notice, I didn't say "China". |
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Some things I'd like to see would be: -the much beloved high pass filter. Based on how it's made it's way on all of your other products I doubt that'll be a hard sell. -at least 4 bands of fully parametric eq. -I like for all bands to have some facility for 20-20k operation. I'd prefer only one range selection button. I bet you guys can come up with a better UI on this than me. -Xlr and trx i/o since I would use it with single point inserts and consoles with varied output connectors. While you're at it, I'd love to see you guys enter the fray with Midas and Cadac in the 2 channel strip department. Don't forget to release that monitor console too. Come on guys, get on with it! |
Chuck Augustowski wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 17:08 |
Everyone will eventually join but the question is when and how. But regardless, we will NOT leave analog behind and we do feel analog has not yet reached its full potential. Chuck Augustowski APB-DynaSonics |
Chuck Augustowski wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 10:08 |
Everyone will eventually join but the question is when and how. But regardless, we will NOT leave analog behind and we do feel analog has not yet reached its full potential. Chuck Augustowski APB-DynaSonics |
Tim McCulloch wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 12:53 |
ps. Olga is one of the unsung wizards of APB. It was a treat to meet her at the NYC Sub Shootout in '07. |
Chuck Augustowski wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 09:24 |
in the growing land of digital, would anyone really want to buy any new analog EQ's and these other suggested devices to the levels necessary to make it profitable to a manufacturer like APB? |
Jeff Wheeler wrote on Fri, 24 September 2010 02:56 | ||
Rane recently discontinued their PEQ55, which was really a digital product with almost all the features mentioned here, that happened to look like an analog device. You can still buy them from some dealers, but I am pretty sure they aren't manufacturing any more. |
Franz Francis wrote on Fri, 24 September 2010 10:01 |
A friend of mine who is interested in their products told me the A.P.B (Analog) line is incomplete without those offerings. Franz |