Post by: Ron Kimball on January 08, 2010, 02:16:51 PM
!
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 09, 2010, 09:37:44 PM
. I'll let you all know when I get it in 
or if they back order it on me 
.
Post by: Doug Sprinthall on January 10, 2010, 06:12:20 PM
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 10, 2010, 06:43:06 PM
| Doug Sprinthall wrote on Sun, 10 January 2010 23:12 |
I'm really curious about these. Almost too good to be true. If they do what they say, I can run my little yami club foh system off one 6000. |
. What Yamaha Clubs are you running that won't blow up from that kind of power?
Post by: Whit Hutchinson on January 11, 2010, 11:34:07 AM
Does this not bother anyone else besides me these days?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 11, 2010, 11:54:33 AM
We do pay a premium for domestic products, and I'm willing to do that if it means: a) the product is a suitable fit for my application; b) domestic production provides better delivery; c) better tech support, repairs & parts inventory; d) keeps my fellow Americans in their jobs a bit longer.
The "value" has been out of the bag and into former 3rd world countries as the automated assembly equipment was sold in those places. The differences for manufacturing in such places are a lack of pesky environmental laws and abundant, cheap labor. So much cheaper that first world workers can NEVER compete. I mean really, what USA worker could give up 80% of his/her wages and benefits? Our economic system wasn't designed to *compete* with economies of such a different wage scale.
Back when the oceans divided us and the cost of transportation was high relative to the value of the product, we were protected. Now that relatively high value products are made in places with unpronounceable names and can be shipped for a fraction of value our economy faces different risks than 50 years ago.
Whether or not you purchase a product based on its country of origin is up to you. Global trade is a fact of life, and with the genie out of the bottle I don't see it changing in my lifetime or yours. Don't buy cheap stuff from China (or Malaysia, etc...) if that makes you feel better. But you'll need to find a way to compete with those providers that deliver a quality service with lower capital equipment costs.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim "lots of coffee today" Mc
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 11, 2010, 12:14:02 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Sun, 10 January 2010 02:37 |
Perhaps B.S. but NorthernSound.net's website shows the IPR-4500 in stock so I ordered one up for $380 shipped . I'll let you all know when I get it in or if they back order it on me . |
Post by: Art Welter on January 11, 2010, 01:53:59 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Sun, 10 January 2010 16:43 | ||
. What Yamaha Clubs are you running that won't blow up from that kind of power? |
It would be hard to find 8 ohm speakers that can not take the 300 watts the Peavey IPR-1600 is rated for.
And with a maximum RMS voltage swing of 55 volts, even clipped you won't see much more power than that.
The 2 ohm rating is about 3dB down from the maximum RMS voltage swing, so plenty of current limiting goes on. The two ohm rating of 800 watts would only be 200 watts per 8 ohm speaker.
The amp may be a good value (we'll see if it holds up to the usual abuse over time),and have a good power to weight ratio, but is not a real powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination.
Art Welter
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 11, 2010, 01:59:55 PM
| Art Welter wrote on Mon, 11 January 2010 18:53 | ||
|
.Post by: Art Welter on January 11, 2010, 02:43:06 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Mon, 11 January 2010 11:59 | ||||
. |
Ron,
My mistake, I missed the distinction between the message line and the "6000".
The IPR-6000 rated at 3,000W RMS x 2 at 2 ohms =750 watts per 8 ohm speaker.
Unless someone is compressing the crap out of music to get more than 1/3 of the 750 watt max output as average power, 250 watts per speaker, I wouldn't worry too much about using that amp with the 15 or 18 inch Yamaha Club series speakers. The 10 and 12 inch could be burned depending on the program.
I’ll be interested in your review of the IPR-4500 if it arrives, and a comparison between it and whatever you currently use.
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 11, 2010, 03:02:40 PM
| Art Welter wrote on Mon, 11 January 2010 19:43 |
The IPR-6000 rated at 3,000W RMS x 2 at 2 ohms =750 watts per 8 ohm speaker. Unless someone is compressing the crap out of music to get more than 1/3 of the 750 watt max output as average power, 250 watts per speaker, I wouldn't worry too much about using that amp with the 15 or 18 inch Yamaha Club series speakers. The 10 and 12 inch could be burned depending on the program. |
.| Quote: |
I’ll be interested in your review of the IPR-4500 if it arrives, and a comparison between it and whatever you currently use. |
but I like my stuff to last a while 
. I even have a couple crap low power amps around I could power the compression drivers with if I get ambitious and want to biamp the tops - but even those are about 2x the weight of an IPR-1600.
Post by: Doug Sprinthall on January 11, 2010, 09:14:37 PM
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 11, 2010, 09:26:28 PM
| Doug Sprinthall wrote on Tue, 12 January 2010 02:14 |
I run sm115v for tops and the Sw2118 for a sub. I run mono so each of the tops would see 1000w each and the sub 2k which is about the peak ratings according to yamaha. |
. Personally I'd use the 3000 on them and still feel I was pushin' things a bit.
Post by: Doug Sprinthall on January 11, 2010, 09:47:17 PM
Post by: Jamin Lynch on January 12, 2010, 05:17:45 PM
| Whit Hutchinson wrote on Mon, 11 January 2010 10:34 |
Made. In. China. Does this not bother anyone else besides me these days? |
It's hard to find anything these days that isn't either made in China or is assembled using parts from China.
It's still a Peavey. Does that bother anyone else besides me?
Post by: Dan Richardson on January 13, 2010, 11:00:15 AM
| Jamin Lynch wrote on Tue, 12 January 2010 17:17 |
It's still a Peavey. Does that bother anyone else besides me? |
Would you like it better if it said Crest on the front?
And no, it doesn't bother me. If it was a speaker, a mixer, or a microphone, sure. It's not.
I'm not sure how I feel about the way this is going to destroy the market in used amps.
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 13, 2010, 11:47:57 AM
| Dan Richardson wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 16:00 | ||
|
| Quote: |
I'm not sure how I feel about the way this is going to destroy the market in used amps. |
! If these IPR's work as well as initial reports they are gonna dominate the semi-pro market. Already Crown XTI's are being blown out and Crown announced class-d replacements for all but the XTI-6000 which is already that.
Post by: Scott Deeter on January 13, 2010, 04:03:24 PM
| Art Welter wrote on Mon, 11 January 2010 14:43 |
The IPR-6000 rated at 3,000W RMS x 2 at 2 ohms =750 watts per 8 ohm speaker. |
Art,
Do you know the 8 ohm rating as a fact? I was turned on to the IPR 1600 just yesterday, and I thought my buddy at the music store was playing a joke on me when he handed it to me. I said "get the f*** outta here" thinking it was some sorta filler for a display rack or something it was that light. I came home got on the Peavey site to get info, not much there in regards to specs on the various amp models in the IPR line but what you posted from the manual.
I went to the Peavey forum and a poster had this up:
I don't understand why Peavey isn't giving the specs for 8 ohm ratings.
Here's some prices from MF for the IPR 1600's:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=Peavey+IPR+1600
Hmm, normally when a product has been out awhile the price drops a little over time, can the 1600 go down any lower you think?
Personally I don't care if it's a Peavey, a few years ago I went the route of an FX mixer against what was discussed here on small format mixers just b/c of a gut feeling on the price and what the FX had to offer in its price point. I was very happy with my decision (for myself). If these IPR amps make it through a time regiment with success, I too believe these amps will have a good amount of the market where they fit the bill so to say.
Hmm, SKB racks and IPR amps, now you'll need weights just keep them from blowing around during outdoor gigs
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 13, 2010, 04:23:17 PM
.
Post by: Art Welter on January 13, 2010, 04:31:41 PM
| Scott Deeter wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 14:03 | ||
Art, Do you know the 8 ohm rating as a fact? I was turned on to the IPR 1600 just yesterday, and I thought my buddy at the music store was playing a joke on me when he handed it to me. I said "get the f*** outta here" thinking it was some sorta filler for a display rack or something it was that light. I came home got on the Peavey site to get info, not much there in regards to specs on the various amp models in the IPR line but what you posted from the manual. |
I couldn’t find an 8 ohm rating for the IPR-6000, the figure of 750 watts was simply 3000/4, I had thought Doug Sprinthall was running four 8 ohm speakers per side for a 2 ohm load.
I don’t know why Peavey does not seem to spec the larger amps at 8 ohm, maybe they figure no one would buy that much power and just put one speaker per side.
If the IPR-6000 has the same power ratio as the IPR-1600, it would probably be about 1125 watts per side into a single 8 ohm load.
Post by: Geoff Doane on January 14, 2010, 01:41:39 PM
| Dan Richardson wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 12:00 | ||
Would you like it better if it said Crest on the front? And no, it doesn't bother me. If it was a speaker, a mixer, or a microphone, sure. It's not. |
What if it turns out to be a repeat of the Peavey DECA debacle?
(Sorry if I dredged up old demons for any Peavey people here.)GTD
Post by: Grant Conklin on January 14, 2010, 01:44:55 PM
| Dan Richardson wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 10:00 | ||
Would you like it better if it said Crest on the front? And no, it doesn't bother me. ... |
Turns out, you can get it in Crest: http://www.crestaudio.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/46 1/20101401.cfm
Post by: Mike Smith on January 14, 2010, 02:22:08 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 16:23 |
I guesstimate the 6000 puts out ~1150 watts per channel @ 8 ohms based upon the ratio between the 1600's 8 and 4 ohm rating. Yah, pretty brain dead of Peavey not to publish the 8 ohm ratings - they musta been taken over by !@#$%^& MBA's . |
Maybe the amps are unstable when run into high impedance loads. Or they get too cold.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 14, 2010, 02:38:37 PM
| Geoff Doane wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 12:41 |
What if it turns out to be a repeat of the Peavey DECA debacle? (Sorry if I dredged up old demons for any Peavey people here.)GTD |
The DECA was an achievement for what and when it was done... switching device technology has come a long way since then,.. That said.. I'm glad it wasn't my baby.
JR
Post by: Steve Ferreira on January 14, 2010, 02:48:29 PM
6000w amp with a 400w input.
Post by: Scott Deeter on January 14, 2010, 02:52:07 PM
| Grant Conklin wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 13:44 | ||||
Turns out, you can get it in Crest: http://www.crestaudio.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/46 1/20101401.cfm |
Grant,
With being out of the loop here for quite a long time I noticed that Crest is on Peavey's site. What the story behind this, was there some type of merge, buy out or something I just never knew?
Looks like the write up for the Peavey and Crest amps are very similar also.
http://www.peavey.com/products/ipr/index.cfm
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 14, 2010, 03:00:03 PM
| Steve Ferreira wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 19:48 |
6000w amp with a 400w input. |
. Prol'ly a photoshopped IPR-1600. I've long ago concluded that the entire marketing and documentation departments at Peavey consist of government subsidized "mentally disabled" workers out of one of them "adult daycare" places 
.
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on January 14, 2010, 03:08:03 PM
| Grant Conklin wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 13:44 | ||||
Turns out, you can get it in Crest: http://www.crestaudio.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/46 1/20101401.cfm |
Yup!
Shipping 1st quartar 2020!
Nice looking amps but I've gone grey waiting for them to ship.
Douglas R. Allen
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 14, 2010, 03:17:09 PM
What cave or desert island have you been occupying? Is there more room?
Crest was purchased by Peavey... er, "strategic alliance was formed" about 5 years ago.
Latest news: parent company of Behringer purchased Midas/KT. No joke.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
Post by: Jamin Lynch on January 14, 2010, 04:05:27 PM
I guess all that would add to the cost.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 14, 2010, 04:16:03 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 14:00 |
You missed the 800w @ 2ohms on each of the outputs . Prol'ly a photoshopped IPR-1600. I've long ago concluded that the entire marketing and documentation departments at Peavey consist of government subsidized "mentally disabled" workers out of one of them "adult daycare" places . |
That isn't very kind... I used to work in marketing there, among other gigs. I was not aware of any mentally disabled employment programs while I was working there.
I know a few of the folks still working there (Marty, etc). They seem competent to me.
Sorry that they haven't dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's on the latest amplifier "for almost nothing per watt" model... I've seen worse gaffs on websites.
JR
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 14, 2010, 04:23:52 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 21:16 |
That isn't very kind... |
? I mean, what's up with not publishing 8 ohm specs for these amps? Sorry, but that's just stoopid.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 14, 2010, 05:15:40 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 15:23 | ||
? I mean, what's up with not publishing 8 ohm specs for these amps? Sorry, but that's just stoopid. |
Trust me, as someone who wrote docs/manuals/brochures/ads/articles/schematics/ etc. it is even more frustrating to have your personal work adulterated. I could tell you stories but I will leave the worst dogs sleeping.
One of my personal favorites, was seeing an ad that I actually wrote, printed in a magazine, with bus spelled "buss"... funny in an extremely ironic way, but not funny ha ha. Of course no one else noticed or much cared. I did make that one kid who altered my spelling, care a little more (in fact I was supposed to see and sign off on all my ads, but was out of town at a trade show or some other such excuse) .
But that's life when you don't do every thing yourself, and even I make mistakes, but not that one.
FWIW I'd worry more about my amp having the components in the right holes, than web copy, but that's just me...
JR
Post by: Art Welter on January 14, 2010, 05:19:54 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 14:16 |
I know a few of the folks still working there (Marty, etc). They seem competent to me. Sorry that they haven't dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's on the latest amplifier "for almost nothing per watt" model... I've seen worse gaffs on websites. JR |
Who you gonna trust, that spec sheet or your lyin’ eyes?
Maybe someone should copy Marty.
Interesting, 40 Volts at 2 ohms is 800 watts (1600 both channels driven), from 400 watts at 120 volts.
The images of the IPR-1600, 3000, 4500, and 6000 on the Peavey website all show the same back panel, other than the model #. Wonder if the real units are silk screened with the same mistake, or if this is just a Photoshop moment.
Even if the IPR-1600 was 100% efficient, it could only have a 25% duty cycle to stay at 400 watt line draw when putting out 1600 watts...
But true enough, what can you expect "for almost nothing per watt".
Art Welter
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 14, 2010, 05:42:51 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 22:15 |
with bus spelled "buss"... |
.| Quote: |
But that's life when you don't do every thing yourself |
I was really spending too much of my time helping them out 
.| Quote: |
FWIW I'd worry more about my amp having the components in the right holes, than web copy, but that's just me... |
I actually like Peavey products and part of my frustration with them is they don't seem to care that the industry looks upon them as less than pro. Most of that is the image they present through their literature and not that the products suck. At least I see that someone got that fugly "Peavey" logo off the front of the Impulse cabs - I had to "stealth" mine as that was just too much even for me . Too bad 1/2 the pictures on their website still show the fugly ones - I mean, come on guys !
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 14, 2010, 05:50:53 PM
| Art Welter wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 22:19 |
Interesting, 40 Volts at 2 ohms is 800 watts (1600 both channels driven), from 400 watts at 120 volts. |
| Quote: |
Wonder if the real units are silk screened with the same mistake |
.
Post by: Scott Deeter on January 14, 2010, 07:47:16 PM
| Art Welter wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 17:19 |
Who you gonna trust, that spec sheet or your lyin’ eyes? Maybe someone should copy Marty. Art Welter |
Marty has been replying on the Peavey forum, but the way I take it, no "Solid" data regarding 8 ohm loads (except for the IPR 1600) to report on except for guestimates.
http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11225
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 14, 2010, 09:58:19 PM
Photoshop on the internet... I'm Shocked.
Pretty simple math to estimate 8 ohm power when you know 2, 4.. If you want to earn extra credit, calculate the extra rise at 8 from the sag between 4 and 2.. (show your work).
But watch out a class D amp may be voltage limited, but it will put out at least the same voltage as 4 ohm, so 1/2 that power.
JR
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 15, 2010, 03:25:56 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Mon, 11 January 2010 17:14 | ||
|
. I've plenty of "heavy iron" amps for outdoors shows next summer anyways .
Post by: Adam Whetham on January 15, 2010, 03:56:32 PM
| Scott Deeter wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 18:47 |
Marty has been replying on the Peavey forum, but the way I take it, no "Solid" data regarding 8 ohm loads (except for the IPR 1600) to report on except for guestimates. http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11225 |
Which is just plain stupid. So they want to sell these with their own speakers... are they going to have a cross reference sheet on which one to use?? an SP2 is an 8ohm speaker... so which one might work best since you don't have an 8ohm rating?? well i can guesstimate it myself but not having that to make your numbers look better is just plain silly.
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 15, 2010, 04:16:13 PM
| Adam Whetham wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 20:56 |
[...] don't have an 8ohm rating?? well i can guesstimate it myself but not having that to make your numbers look better is just plain silly. |
.
Post by: Adam Whetham on January 15, 2010, 04:20:07 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 15:16 |
Kinda interesting Peavey's official position on using these amps on subs as stated by Marty on that forum . |
Kind of amusing as the SP118 is an 8 ohm cabinet... maybe someone still wants to run stereo subs...
Yea our local peavey rep was the same way... kind of baffled. they would sell a few more when they show up if they show the 8ohm load...
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 15, 2010, 04:24:19 PM
| Adam Whetham wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 21:20 |
They would sell a few more when they show up if they show the 8ohm load... |
.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 15, 2010, 05:18:16 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 15:16 | ||
. |
Give Marty a break, he's just trying to make some lemonade with the hand he was dealt. While I don't buy his blinding them with science spiel I know who he learned that stuff from.
The amps sound like they are based on some perhaps consumer PWM/DSP IC chip-set. Whomever designed the output filter didn't read Langston's love letters to Crown. If the DCR is .05 Ohm (based on DF) I wonder what the Inductance is?
A DF of 40 is not going to be the weakest link for many systems (this is the lounge after all), and efficiency of PWM, with light weight, and modest cost, sound like positive aspects.
Anybody expecting gold for straw prices, needs to keep shopping.
JR
Post by: steve harbin on January 15, 2010, 11:33:29 PM
Steve
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 16, 2010, 09:58:29 AM
| steve harbin wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 04:33 |
Ron, I bought one of these the other day havnt tried it out yet but we have a gig tomorrow night so ill find out i guess! |
.| Quote: |
Ive heard they cannot be bridged Is this true? |
.
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 16, 2010, 10:08:20 AM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 22:18 |
A DF of 40 is not going to be the weakest link for many systems (this is the lounge after all), and efficiency of PWM, with light weight, and modest cost, sound like positive aspects. |
. In my case I'm willing to trade off some sound quality for light weight and convenience. For instance I love my PR12D's 
and will most likely only use the Impulse 1012's (and the amp(s) for them) for outdoors events.
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 16, 2010, 10:56:51 AM
| I wrote on Thu, 14 January 2010 22:50 | ||
|
.
Post by: Grant Conklin on January 16, 2010, 11:41:59 AM
http://www.crestaudio.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/46 1/20101401.cfm
Grant
Post by: Greg Cameron on January 16, 2010, 01:52:01 PM
| Ron Kimball wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 06:58 | ||
. |
I doesn't make sense that they cannot be bridged unless they're using some unconventional output topology. They're rated down to 2 ohms stereo which mean in theory they should operate down to 4 ohms bridged. Is far as the amp is concerned, it's the same load either way.
Greg
Post by: Art Welter on January 16, 2010, 02:46:01 PM
| Greg Cameron wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 11:52 | ||||
I doesn't make sense that they cannot be bridged unless they're using some unconventional output topology. They're rated down to 2 ohms stereo which mean in theory they should operate down to 4 ohms bridged. Is far as the amp is concerned, it's the same load either way. Greg |
True, but the lack of a bridge switch and bridge output jack would require a polarity reverse input "y" cord and a custom output Y cord.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 16, 2010, 03:10:14 PM
| Greg Cameron wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 12:52 | ||||
I doesn't make sense that they cannot be bridged unless they're using some unconventional output topology. They're rated down to 2 ohms stereo which mean in theory they should operate down to 4 ohms bridged. Is far as the amp is concerned, it's the same load either way. Greg |
Not if the output is already bridged internally to get that much power? I notice the Speakon outputs are labeled POS and NEG not POS and GND or common.
Using a topology that delivers higher power for a given voltage rail/device technology has merit, especially in consumer electronic where loudspeakers are rarely bridged.
An alternate consideration related to bridged amplifiers is that current limiting and protection circuitry needs to be coordinated between the two channels or undesirable stuff happens... This is unrelated to class D but a different possible excuse for not having bridge capability.
Of course reason #2 doesn't make much sense if amp is already bridged internally.
JR
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 16, 2010, 03:15:46 PM
| Art Welter wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 19:46 |
[...] the lack of a bridge switch and bridge output jack would require a polarity reverse input "y" cord and a custom output Y cord. |
. Even without bridging ability it would have been nice to have both channels available on one speakon for biamping?Post by: Steve Payne on January 17, 2010, 10:46:37 AM
| Dan Richardson wrote on Wed, 13 January 2010 11:00 | ||
Would you like it better if it said Crest on the front? And no, it doesn't bother me. If it was a speaker, a mixer, or a microphone, sure. It's not. I'm not sure how I feel about the way this is going to destroy the market in used amps. |
I am sure it will have about as much impact on the used market for pro amps as a gnat biting an elephant's ass.
Post by: Doug Maye on January 17, 2010, 06:04:59 PM
Post by: Jeff Babcock on January 18, 2010, 04:52:49 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 15:10 | ||||||
Not if the output is already bridged internally to get that much power? I notice the Speakon outputs are labeled POS and NEG not POS and GND or common. Using a topology that delivers higher power for a given voltage rail/device technology has merit, especially in consumer electronic where loudspeakers are rarely bridged. An alternate consideration related to bridged amplifiers is that current limiting and protection circuitry needs to be coordinated between the two channels or undesirable stuff happens... This is unrelated to class D but a different possible excuse for not having bridge capability. Of course reason #2 doesn't make much sense if amp is already bridged internally. JR |
Since the Crest-branded version of this amp is bridgeable, I would suspect that Peavey has left out bridging features just for the sake of cost and simplicity, and also to perhaps give some better separation between the MI (Peavey) branded product and the Crest product.
Post by: Art Welter on January 18, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 13:10 | ||||||
Not if the output is already bridged internally to get that much power? I notice the Speakon outputs are labeled POS and NEG not POS and GND or common. Using a topology that delivers higher power for a given voltage rail/device technology has merit, especially in consumer electronic where loudspeakers are rarely bridged. An alternate consideration related to bridged amplifiers is that current limiting and protection circuitry needs to be coordinated between the two channels or undesirable stuff happens... This is unrelated to class D but a different possible excuse for not having bridge capability. Of course reason #2 doesn't make much sense if amp is already bridged internally. JR |
Jr,
Gastric posted several internal photos of the IPR 1600 at
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=617982
This photo, with the fan flow diverter removed shows some devices that appear to have the identification scraped off. They also seem to have the center leg removed...
Any more educated guesses regarding the output configuration?
Art Welter
Post by: Duncan McLennan on January 18, 2010, 06:18:46 PM
Post by: Geoff Doane on January 18, 2010, 06:21:37 PM
There's not much inside that chassis, and they could have made it an inch or so more shallow if they had wanted. It's not going to make the "big iron" guys happy
.GTD
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 18, 2010, 07:52:05 PM
| Art Welter wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 16:52 |
Jr, Gastric posted several internal photos of the IPR 1600 at http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=617982 This photo, with the fan flow diverter removed shows some devices that appear to have the identification scraped off. They also seem to have the center leg removed... Any more educated guesses regarding the output configuration? Art Welter |
Life is too short for me to second guess too much.
RE: The parts with the middle leg cut off are probably power diodes and come that way. Perhaps cheaper to just use the body diode that comes inside a power MOSFET. Not hard to imagine why someone would be paranoid about being copied these days? How long did it take for photos to hit the WWW?
====
RE: fitting it in one rack space,, I do know a little about that from my old DPC days. The biggest PIA for one rack space is fans,,, in 1U you either get tiny ass muffin fan (dentist drill sounding) screamers that push almost no air, or oddball configuration air blowers that cost a ton and take up a lot of internal volume, also pull air from above or below, so not rack friendly. Also fitting in large value high voltage caps can be a challenge in 1U. There would be a cost hit to shrink this design into 1U, and I get the sense this is a sharp pencil exercise. May not be as bad as when I last looked into this but 2u is the sweet spot for cost effective power amp chassis.
RE: Bridging. I can't tell from the pictures, but it could still be H switch output with two coil windings on a single common core..(there might even be some benefit to doing that) or not.. I don't know and I'm just guessing too, but I do know better than to ASSume I can do something the manufacturer doesn't explicitly say I can.
I don't think any of the pictures give a good look at the actual audio amp section. The bunch of stuff in the middle looks like the switching power supply. The audio amp my be hiding behind that row of capacitors over on the left.
JR
Post by: Weogo Reed on January 18, 2010, 09:39:55 PM
From your view, does it look like there's enough room in there to make this a four-channel amp?
Thanks and good health, Weogo
Post by: Dan Richardson on January 18, 2010, 10:08:51 PM
| Steve Payne wrote on Sun, 17 January 2010 10:46 |
I am sure it will have about as much impact on the used market for pro amps as a gnat biting an elephant's ass. |
You might be surprised. Take a look in The Marketplace. It's already decimated the market for the big guy's cheaper lines. Why by a used CE1000 or XTI1000 for $250 when $300 buys a brand new IPR1600 that has more power and a five year warranty? We'll see what happens when the bigger models hit.
Post by: Steve Payne on January 18, 2010, 11:00:33 PM
| Dan Richardson wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 22:08 | ||
You might be surprised. Take a look in The Marketplace. It's already decimated the market for the big guy's cheaper lines. Why by a used CE1000 or XTI1000 for $250 when $300 buys a brand new IPR1600 that has more power and a five year warranty? We'll see what happens when the bigger models hit. |
Dan,
Actually, I would not be at all surprised that this amp will have an impact on the resale value of used budget amps. I don't even know what a CE1000 or a XTI1000 is. Sorry, I just forgot where I was for a second. All the best.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 18, 2010, 11:59:06 PM
| Weogo Reed wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 20:39 |
Hi John, From your view, does it look like there's enough room in there to make this a four-channel amp? Thanks and good health, Weogo |
If you keep in mind I'm just making an educated guess.. the amplifier part looks like a fairly small area.
I think that power chip may have DSP too.
A product that I defined up about 15-20 years ago was about 4 channels of class D amp with a digital crossover, in a 2U box..
PV could have actually cobbled together a pair of DPCs and a digital crossover, but it would have been expensive and too cool for the PV room.
Now they have the pieces, to make a kick ass powered speaker..
I still want to hear how the bigger units hang under hard use..
Digital has long promised it would eventually be cheaper for power.
JR
Post by: Grant Conklin on January 19, 2010, 12:23:46 AM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Mon, 18 January 2010 22:59 |
... Now they have the pieces, to make a kick ass powered speaker.. ... JR |
It appears that they have done just that:
http://www.peavey.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/457/ca t/1/20101401.cfm
and this one w/ a ribbon driver...
http://www.peavey.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/458/ca t/1/20101401.cfm
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 19, 2010, 09:49:45 AM
My definition for a universal powered speaker/powered mixer power module also included universal power supply. I can't tell from the links if they did that too, but if yes those modules could enjoy even better manufacturing volume.
I am still waiting for powered speakers to take over the world and this doesn't hurt.
Why should the end users have to figure out all the details when they can just plug and play?
JR
Post by: Weogo Reed on January 19, 2010, 12:26:24 PM
Thanks for the reply.
Did you see the link in Grant's post about the new Peavey EU series of powered speakers?
Maybe they're going after the Behr 'Eurolive' market?
Good health, Weogo
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 19, 2010, 12:44:39 PM
| Weogo Reed wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 11:26 |
Hi John, Thanks for the reply. Did you see the link in Grant's post about the new Peavey EU series of powered speakers? Maybe they're going after the Behr 'Eurolive' market? Good health, Weogo |
I doubt Peavey, would be chasing Behringer, chasing Mackie, in Europe. Peavey has had a pretty competent loudspeaker design team in Corby England for many years, designing unique "euro" boxes for the different tastes over there. Because of cultural influences, smaller venues, etc, the Euro market prefers smaller footprints, slightly different voicing etc. IIRC they may have been ahead of us embracing powered cabinets.
While I have been outside the castle walls for several years now I wouldn't underestimate Peavey (even without me
), while they do seem to be aiming at a broader market than the more "loved" brands. JR
Post by: Tim Weaver on January 19, 2010, 01:34:04 PM
I need to buy a lightweight amp to run two 2 ohm buttkickers. One for bass and one for drums. When an amp is current limiting it sounds pretty rough. But would that even matter for a shaker? Do you think one of these amps would work for buttkickers? and what is your forecast on how long it will hold up driving a 2 ohm load on each channel?
Thanks,
-=Tim=-
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 19, 2010, 01:48:33 PM
| Tim Weaver wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 12:34 |
JR, Et al.... I need to buy a lightweight amp to run two 2 ohm buttkickers. One for bass and one for drums. When an amp is current limiting it sounds pretty rough. But would that even matter for a shaker? Do you think one of these amps would work for buttkickers? and what is your forecast on how long it will hold up driving a 2 ohm load on each channel? Thanks, -=Tim=- |
I have no friggin idea...
I have read reports, here and about of buttkickers eating normal amps.
I have no reason to expect these amps to be better or worse than other "value" amps. They are new and unproven in the marketplace, so I wouldn't ASSume anything.
The class D is a benefit for efficiency, and perhaps mitigating load angle of exotic loads, but the only way to find out is buy one and flog it.
Re: clipping and the butt-kicker, I expect clipping to be more problematic for the amp than the than the perception by the person "feeling" the music with that pretty low resolution organ.
JR
Post by: Chris Van Duker on January 20, 2010, 05:46:08 PM
| Quote: |
The IPR1600 can be bridged into 8 ohms, but it's kinda tricky. You have to parallel the inputs (no signal inversion or anything, just a straight parallel. Then, you take (+) from channel 1 and (-) from channel 2. Match the gain control on both channels and you're there. |
and
| Quote: |
The 3000 is bridgeable like the 1600, but the 6000 is not. The 1600 will do: 800 watts cont. x 2 at 2 ohms 535 watts cont. x 2 at 4 ohms I'm not sure about the stereo 8 ohm spec. 1600 x 1 into 4 ohms 1000 x 1 into 8 ohms I'm not working on this project. I get my info from the head of the power amp department. If there are specific spec. questions I can ask, but I'm not sure if we are publishing detailed specs on the other models yet. |
Post by: JD Bennett on March 05, 2010, 04:06:53 PM
[/quote]
I still want to hear how the bigger units hang under hard use..
JR[/quote]
Come visit. Let's hang eight 18s on a single channel and a pair of full range cabs on the other and hit it hard.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 05, 2010, 05:40:27 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 15:06 |
Come visit. Let's hang eight 18s on a single channel and a pair of full range cabs on the other and hit it hard. |
Hi JD:
I don't literally want to be in the same room with that much SPL.
I was making more of a rhetorical point, as in I want to hear reports from the field when these start shipping in numbers. Your customers will flog these, as evidenced by the flurry of questions like will these drive 2 ohms? Bridged? on a 15A branch circuit? Under a black blanket, in the sun? If you have a unit that you are willing to lend out for testing perhaps there's enough interest to make it a formal road test item, or maybe get Langston to run it across his test bench. He was pretty critical of the early Crown IT.
If you want to keep it local, maybe Geri O in Jackson could actually lift one of these guys high enough to check it out.
It would probably be better to wait on true production units when these are shipping, but I think there is good interest around here.
-------
I still haven't found a good excuse to listen to the new driver Jon Risch was so excited about, when I ran into him while shopping in town several months ago.
JR
PS: I wouldn't mind hearing the rest of the story on that "energy star" power saving program that requires a night light inside?
Post by: JD Bennett on March 05, 2010, 06:11:23 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 16:40 | ||
I don't literally want to be in the same room with that much SPL........ I wouldn't mind hearing the rest of the story on that "energy star" power saving program that requires a night light inside? |
Too much SPL??? Is old age turning you into a whimp?
As for the Energy Star story: The requirement is to have a stand-by mode drawing a small amount of current (forgot the exact number). I didn't see the point of creating a stand-by going the logical route of leaving supply caps charged while switching is halted. Too many complications without benefit. I settled for just turning the amp completely off and leaving half of the LEDs on low illumination for the logo and switch. Safety Engineering's "official" VA meter reads 0.00 amps in that mode, so I figure that qualifies for low stand-by consumption. This turned out to be a bad plan. We now have customers returning amps with DOA claims because they thought the power was on when it wasn't.
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 05, 2010, 07:10:24 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 17:11 |
Too much SPL??? Is old age turning you into a whimp? As for the Energy Star story: The requirement is to have a stand-by mode drawing a small amount of current (forgot the exact number). I didn't see the point of creating a stand-by going the logical route of leaving supply caps charged while switching is halted. Too many complications without benefit. I settled for just turning the amp completely off and leaving half of the LEDs on low illumination for the logo and switch. Safety Engineering's "official" VA meter reads 0.00 amps in that mode, so I figure that qualifies for low stand-by consumption. This turned out to be a bad plan. We now have customers returning amps with DOA claims because they thought the power was on when it wasn't. |
I haven't cared for loud noises since being drafted into the army.
=========
I'm confused too... Are you saying that the requirement to get approved as an energy saver is to draw more current when turned off, than pretty much every other power amp in the world that draw zero current when turned off?
Is there some instant-on feature (like old TV sets had), or some digital com port in the amp that has to be online 24x7 to detect turn-on control commands?
If this is purposely wasting some current just to meet some statutory requirement, that doesn't really apply to this product category, this is questionable for your Karma account.
Confused customers is just the beginning.
Wait till the Greenie planet huggers find out.
JR
Post by: Grant Conklin on March 05, 2010, 09:22:19 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 17:11 |
Wait till the Greenie planet huggers find out. JR |
I hope they do find out -- the ridiculous results of the legislation they push for.
Post by: JD Bennett on March 05, 2010, 10:48:44 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 18:10 |
I'm confused too... Are you saying that the requirement to get approved as an energy saver is to draw more current when turned off, than pretty much every other power amp in the world that draw zero current when turned off? Is there some instant-on feature (like old TV sets had), or some digital com port in the amp that has to be online 24x7 to detect turn-on control commands? If this is purposely wasting some current just to meet some statutory requirement, that doesn't really apply to this product category, this is questionable for your Karma account. Wait till the Greenie planet huggers find out. JR |
Yes, to get the rating, we have to draw more than when we are completely off. Yes, there is an instant-on feature. It's called your index finger on the button. There are 48 volts worth of LEDs in series that combined draw maybe 4ma. If the greenies get upset, I'll point out that if having the logo and power switch illuminated keeps one person from having to turn on the house lights to find the amp and switch, it's a power savings.
Besides, I sold myself a bunch of carbon credits. I charged those to my Karma account that I pay myself interest on.
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 07, 2010, 01:48:36 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 18:10 | ||
I hope they do find out -- the ridiculous results of the legislation they push for. |
So does Minnesota promote energy waste, or is that your personal agenda?
The main thing this shows is the disconnect between the desires of society and the ways laws/regulations are written and passed.
Post by: Art Welter on March 07, 2010, 02:18:24 PM
| Grant Conklin wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 20:22 | ||||
So does Minnesota promote energy waste, or is that your personal agenda? The main thing this shows is the disconnect between the desires of society and the ways laws/regulations are written and passed. |
Tim,
What does Minnesota have to do with any of this?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 07, 2010, 02:35:22 PM
| Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 12:48 | ||||
So does Minnesota promote energy waste, or is that your personal agenda? The main thing this shows is the disconnect between the desires of society and the ways laws/regulations are written and passed. |
I think I mentioned in another post, I looked into the "energy star" program well over a decade earlier when Peavey was the only, or one of very few, manufacturers of class D power amps.
The "energy star" program is targeted at consumer appliances. Many had and many still do draw significant vampire current when turned off. It used to be instant on TV sets, nowadays it's digital clocks and timers built into everything with a display.
The regulations AFAIK didn't apply to commercial power amps back then, and IMO don't now. If anything this is a misapplication of a potentially useful regulation, to a product it doesn't cover. The irony of this interpretation actually consuming more energy makes this difficult to accept as being in the spirit of the law even if within the letter of the law.
In the grand scheme of things this is a minor offense. I am personally more bothered by the silly night light, then gaming some government program. Any customers who make a purchase decision based on this deserve what they get. of course if some high volume consumer product were to copy this we would be moving in the wrong direction, so it sets a bad example.
JR
Post by: JD Bennett on March 07, 2010, 03:33:38 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 13:35 | ||||||
I think I mentioned in another post, I looked into the "energy star" program well over a decade earlier when Peavey was the only, or one of very few, manufacturers of class D power amps. The "energy star" program is targeted at consumer appliances. Many had and many still do draw significant vampire current when turned off. It used to be instant on TV sets, nowadays it's digital clocks and timers built into everything with a display. The regulations AFAIK didn't apply to commercial power amps back then, and IMO don't now. If anything this is a misapplication of a potentially useful regulation, to a product it doesn't cover. The irony of this interpretation actually consuming more energy makes this difficult to accept as being in the spirit of the law even if within the letter of the law. In the grand scheme of things this is a minor offense. I am personally more bothered by the silly night light, then gaming some government program. Any customers who make a purchase decision based on this deserve what they get. of course if some high volume consumer product were to copy this we would be moving in the wrong direction, so it sets a bad example. JR |
Like I said, if the dimly lit power switch and logo keeps one person from having to turn on the house lights, it's a savings. Does ~ 4ma really bother you that much? You always have the option of turning off the power strip. I didn't make the rules, some bureaucrat out of touch with the real world did.
Post by: Grant Conklin on March 07, 2010, 04:00:31 PM
| Grant Conklin wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 20:22 | ||||
So does Minnesota promote energy waste, or is that your personal agenda? The main thing this shows is the disconnect between the desires of society and the ways laws/regulations are written and passed. |
I knew someone would have a problem with what I said - I didn't figure they'd put words in my mouth. I happen to be pretty conservative with energy -the local power company ranks me in the top 7%. I don't think anyone here will argue that unnecessarily using energy to get a government sticker that says you're saving it is not ridiculous. But then, I've been wrong before.
Grant
Post by: JD Bennett on March 07, 2010, 04:09:05 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 13:35 | ||||||
I think I mentioned in another post, I looked into the "energy star" program well over a decade earlier when Peavey was the only, or one of very few, manufacturers of class D power amps. The "energy star" program is targeted at consumer appliances. Many had and many still do draw significant vampire current when turned off. It used to be instant on TV sets, nowadays it's digital clocks and timers built into everything with a display. The regulations AFAIK didn't apply to commercial power amps back then, and IMO don't now. If anything this is a misapplication of a potentially useful regulation, to a product it doesn't cover. The irony of this interpretation actually consuming more energy makes this difficult to accept as being in the spirit of the law even if within the letter of the law. In the grand scheme of things this is a minor offense. I am personally more bothered by the silly night light, then gaming some government program. Any customers who make a purchase decision based on this deserve what they get. of course if some high volume consumer product were to copy this we would be moving in the wrong direction, so it sets a bad example. JR |
JR, do you have any light switches in your house that stay illuminated when off? Maybe a doorbell where the button glows? How about a night light? If so, better cover them up quickly cause I'm coming over with the green police.
Post by: JD Bennett on March 07, 2010, 04:11:30 PM
| Grant Conklin wrote on Fri, 05 March 2010 20:22 | ||||
So does Minnesota promote energy waste, or is that your personal agenda? The main thing this shows is the disconnect between the desires of society and the ways laws/regulations are written and passed. |
Yes Tim, my personal agenda is to destroy the planet 4 milliamps at a time. I must correct you however regarding "the desires of society". That should be the desires of SOME of society. SOME is not a majority.
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 07, 2010, 04:51:29 PM
| Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 12:48 | ||||||
Yes Tim, my personal agenda is to destroy the planet 4 milliamps at a time. I must correct you however regarding "the desires of society". That should be the desires of SOME of society. SOME is not a majority. |
Hi JD-
Wow, I guess things weren't as clear as I thought.
Grant is from Minnesota, and I took a cheap shot at them. I'm hardly a planet/tree/critter hugger, either, but I like low utility bills, too. My point was "society claims to want energy-thrifty appliances, but THIS (regulation/statute) is what we get by the time political sausage is made." Perhaps I should have said that the first time, eh? Oh well.
We're on the same side of this one, JD. And I'm watching from the sidelines to see how Peavey/Crest scales this up to the "pros". Any insight into that?
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
Post by: JD Bennett on March 07, 2010, 05:37:00 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 15:11 | ||||||||
Hi JD- Wow, I guess things weren't as clear as I thought. Grant is from Minnesota, and I took a cheap shot at them. I'm hardly a planet/tree/critter hugger, either, but I like low utility bills, too. My point was "society claims to want energy-thrifty appliances, but THIS (regulation/statute) is what we get by the time political sausage is made." Perhaps I should have said that the first time, eh? Oh well. We're on the same side of this one, JD. And I'm watching from the sidelines to see how Peavey/Crest scales this up to the "pros". Any insight into that? Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc |
Hi Tim
Boy am I glad I edited my initial response. You are correct, I did read your response wrong. I'll be more careful next time
I don't know what to make of the "pro" end of the market. In a matter of months, we will have the IPR6000 available in both Peavey and enhanced performance Crest versions. They won't be running in the high powered class and they won't be bridgeable. It will sound very good however, drive two ohms easily and will be very reliable. The Peavey version will be under ten pounds and the Crest a couple more. For something under $500 dealer cost, I'm sure those planning to spend thousands for higher power will re-evaluate their need. It could toss a hand gernade into the market. Wish I had a crystal ball. I'm just the engineer, not the marketing guy who is supposed to know.
Better stop typing now and quickly put my computer on stand-by to conserve energy
Oops, I meant turn it off completely
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on March 07, 2010, 05:59:27 PM
| Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 12:48 | ||||||
Yes Tim, my personal agenda is to destroy the planet 4 milliamps at a time. I must correct you however regarding "the desires of society". That should be the desires of SOME of society. SOME is not a majority. |
Knowing ohm's law, I know that "a 4 ma" waste is just about as accurate as using adjectives to describe the audience turnout at a show. I think mW would be more telling.
Regarding these amps. Could you recap what the advantage is to these "ballast diodes" - I guess I'm simply too slow to understand.
I will agree that overly focusing on small waste figures takes focus away from the big picture. And in the grand scheme of things, a lot of waste energy goes toward useful space heating. In other cases, it is a double waste since it produces excess heat for the cooling system to deal with.
The funny thing about consumer electronics is that numbers become staggering, and all those units really add up.
My web router has like 10 LEDs lit all the time, which is a waste, but then again, the wall wart for the damn thing is ridiculously warm to touch. How many LEDs does that equal, you know?
Regarding the power strip: Switched power strips here have a lit switch. Switching off the power strip probably would save more because of the bulb in the switch than the connected amps
Still waiting for LEDs to show up in those switches, they seem to be everywhere else by now...
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 07, 2010, 06:23:17 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 15:09 |
JR, do you have any light switches in your house that stay illuminated when off? Maybe a doorbell where the button glows? How about a night light? If so, better cover them up quickly cause I'm coming over with the green police. |
I have a LED based night light in my bathroom, and a digital clock in my microwave that stays on, but so F'n what?
For me to rise to the same level of hypocrisy I'd have to add some appliance to my house that wasted energy, so I could win a "green" energy saving tax deduction.
--------
If those amps hit the right price points and don't suck, they will sell well with or without "energy star", and no matter how cheesy I think the internal lights look.
JR
PS: This reminds me of our conversations when I interfaced with you as product manager for power amps.
I find your argument that it saves energy as an night light unconvincing. Post by: JD Bennett on March 07, 2010, 08:03:10 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 22:11 | ||||||||
Knowing ohm's law, I know that "a 4 ma" waste is just about as accurate as using adjectives to describe the audience turnout at a show. I think mW would be more telling. Regarding these amps. Could you recap what the advantage is to these "ballast diodes" - I guess I'm simply too slow to understand. I will agree that overly focusing on small waste figures takes focus away from the big picture. And in the grand scheme of things, a lot of waste energy goes toward useful space heating. In other cases, it is a double waste since it produces excess heat for the cooling system to deal with. The funny thing about consumer electronics is that numbers become staggering, and all those units really add up. My web router has like 10 LEDs lit all the time, which is a waste, but then again, the wall wart for the damn thing is ridiculously warm to touch. How many LEDs does that equal, you know? Regarding the power strip: Switched power strips here have a lit switch. Switching off the power strip probably would save more because of the bulb in the switch than the connected amps Still waiting for LEDs to show up in those switches, they seem to be everywhere else by now... |
Hi Kristian
The IPR amplifier has a small push switch that connects the power to a relay. Marketing wanted the soft touch switch and they wanted lots of blue LEDs inside. I need power to turn on the relay. I didn't want a high voltage switching regulator making more noise just to power a relay. Instead, I went with a 48 volt relay and 50 volts worth of LEDs in series. That combination is driven by a conventional high voltage constant current supply. This amplifier is very efficient and marketing wanted to call attention to this. They asked what it would take to get an Energy Star qualification. That meant I needed a standby mode. The easiest and most efficient way was to simply allow a small amount of current to flow through the LEDs while the relay was open. The only measurement that mattered was what our Safety Engineering's calibrated VA meter measured. It read 0.00 amps at 120VAC. That was good enough for me and here we are.
Hope that explains.
Regards
jdb
Post by: JD Bennett on March 07, 2010, 08:15:12 PM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 17:23 | ||
I have a LED based night light in my bathroom, and a digital clock in my microwave that stays on, but so F'n what? PS: This reminds me of our conversations when I interfaced with you as product manager for power amps. I find your argument that it saves energy as an night light unconvincing. |
You missed the point JR. For $299 you not only get a night light, you get one that has a long cord and can be placed anywhere. At seven pounds, it won't fall off the night stand easily either. The really cool feature that your current LED night light does not have is the two level brightness the IPR offers. Amp off and you get soft romantic illumination. Amp on and you don't need to turn on your night stand light to find the remote control to activate the standby circuit in your TV. Gotta think positive!
jd
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 07, 2010, 08:31:14 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 19:15 |
You missed the point JR. For $299 you not only get a night light, you get one that has a long cord and can be placed anywhere. At seven pounds, it won't fall off the night stand easily either. The really cool feature that your current LED night light does not have is the two level brightness the IPR offers. Amp off and you get soft romantic illumination. Amp on and you don't need to turn on your night stand light to find the remote control to activate the standby circuit in your TV. Gotta think positive! jd |
deja vu man...
I'm positive.
Maybe we can get some of that same government brilliance and attention to detail working on our health care.
What's the worst they could do?
JR
Post by: JD Bennett on March 07, 2010, 08:40:49 PM
Maybe we can get some of that same government brilliance and attention to detail working on our health care.
What's the worst they could do?
JR[/quote]
Hide and watch, cause it's coming.
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on March 07, 2010, 08:53:22 PM
| Kristian Johnsen wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 16:59 | ||||||||||
Hi Kristian The IPR amplifier has a small push switch that connects the power to a relay. Marketing wanted the soft touch switch and they wanted lots of blue LEDs inside. I need power to turn on the relay. I didn't want a high voltage switching regulator making more noise just to power a relay. Instead, I went with a 48 volt relay and 50 volts worth of LEDs in series. That combination is driven by a conventional high voltage constant current supply. This amplifier is very efficient and marketing wanted to call attention to this. They asked what it would take to get an Energy Star qualification. That meant I needed a standby mode. The easiest and most efficient way was to simply allow a small amount of current to flow through the LEDs while the relay was open. The only measurement that mattered was what our Safety Engineering's calibrated VA meter measured. It read 0.00 amps at 120VAC. That was good enough for me and here we are. Hope that explains. Regards jdb |
Thank you for the explanation, very interesting. I still think waste or savings should be specified in watts/milliwatts for them to be useful as comparison data, though.
Two things that spring to mind:
1). Whoever wrote the book on the need for a standby mode to get the energy star rating needs to do their homework. I'm sure they have read somewhere that standby mode is great for energy savings and missed the fact that this is as opposed to full operation. Being completely switched off will beat standby for energy savings. In fact, I urge Peavey to contact them to explain this.
2). It surprises me that your marketing department is convinced that the customers will prefer a soft switch. I'm struggling to think of even one piece of gear amongst hundreds of devices in my inventory that has a "soft switch". Even the digital mixers I have seen have push or toggle "hard switches". Stuff like home DVD players, Macs, cell phones, is what I associate with soft switches.
In my very personal opinion, this amp seems so revolutionary for its intended market that I'm sure it would sell even without an on/off switch. I'm sure you could have constructed an audio-sensing switch that drew even less current, kinda like some active home cinema subs?
Is there a 230 volt version coming?
Post by: Adam Schaible on March 07, 2010, 09:18:01 PM
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on March 07, 2010, 09:50:06 PM
| Adam Schaible wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 03:18 |
my itech hd's have a soft switch. |
Is that why you bought it?
Post by: Adam Schaible on March 07, 2010, 09:57:51 PM
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on March 07, 2010, 09:59:21 PM
| Adam Schaible wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 03:57 |
Hahaha... no but I was a bit surprised with it. |
Agreed! I'm sure you would have considered the amp for it's amp qualities no matter what switch it had, which was my point exactly.
Post by: Adam Schaible on March 07, 2010, 10:01:28 PM
No big deal, I don't really use that feature.
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on March 07, 2010, 10:15:06 PM
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10 876
Hopefully these type of things won't become common, since that could really put a damper on these amps.
Take Care,
Phil
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 07, 2010, 10:32:21 PM
If the amp fan didn't work, though, it's DOA/infant mortality and Peavey will take care of it. Unfortunate, but it does happen.
With the weight, output, size and price of this series, I doubt a few initial problems will be a significant factor in long term sales.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on March 07, 2010, 11:03:44 PM
| Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 22:15 |
One "unfortunate" field report- http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10 876 Hopefully these type of things won't become common, since that could really put a damper on these amps. Take Care, Phil |
Phil,
I got a deal I couldn't turn down on one of these amps, so I'm going to put it through it's paces and report back.
Evan
Post by: JD Bennett on March 08, 2010, 01:21:37 AM
| Phil Lewandowski wrote on Sun, 07 March 2010 21:15 |
One "unfortunate" field report- http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10 876 Hopefully these type of things won't become common, since that could really put a damper on these amps. Take Care, Phil |
Ouch! The fan is the same expensive Panasonic/NMB fan we have been using on the top of the line Crest for years. Fan failure is virtually non-existent. The connector not being plugged in fully is more likely. Sigh......
Post by: JD Bennett on March 08, 2010, 01:28:55 AM
In my very personal opinion, this amp seems so revolutionary for its intended market that I'm sure it would sell even without an on/off switch. I'm sure you could have constructed an audio-sensing switch that drew even less current, kinda like some active home cinema subs?
Is there a 230 volt version coming?[/quote]
Auto sensing circuits usually consume more. You still have to drop 120 or 230 down to something. The voltage conversion gets you regardless. I'm not sure how to do the math for milli-watts for the IPR circuit since the "official" measurement was 0.00 amps. 0.00 x 120VAC = ?
230 volt versions are shipping.
Post by: Kristian Johnsen on March 08, 2010, 08:11:11 AM
| JD Bennett wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 07:28 |
In my very personal opinion, this amp seems so revolutionary for its intended market that I'm sure it would sell even without an on/off switch. I'm sure you could have constructed an audio-sensing switch that drew even less current, kinda like some active home cinema subs?
Is there a 230 volt version coming?[/quote]
Auto sensing circuits usually consume more. You still have to drop 120 or 230 down to something. The voltage conversion gets you regardless. I'm not sure how to do the math for milli-watts for the IPR circuit since the "official" measurement was 0.00 amps. 0.00 x 120VAC = ?
230 volt versions are shipping. [/quote]
If the 4mA figure you qouted earlier is correct it's just a matter of measuring the voltage across the LEDs, no?
Anyway, I'm not posting to pester you over the LED, any idea of whether these will be shipping to Norway?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 08, 2010, 10:37:28 AM
Even a cheap fan is expected to work out of the box, so if anything I am encouraged that the thermal protection worked and saved the amp from actual failure.
It stands to be seen if this is an isolated (process) incident, or more general (design) issue. One amp does not prove a pattern.
It will take time to see if any trends emerge.
JR
Post by: JD Bennett on March 08, 2010, 11:23:42 AM
| Kristian Johnsen wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 07:11 | ||
In my very personal opinion, this amp seems so revolutionary for its intended market that I'm sure it would sell even without an on/off switch. I'm sure you could have constructed an audio-sensing switch that drew even less current, kinda like some active home cinema subs? Is there a 230 volt version coming? |
Auto sensing circuits usually consume more. You still have to drop 120 or 230 down to something. The voltage conversion gets you regardless. I'm not sure how to do the math for milli-watts for the IPR circuit since the "official" measurement was 0.00 amps. 0.00 x 120VAC = ?
230 volt versions are shipping. [/quote]
If the 4mA figure you qouted earlier is correct it's just a matter of measuring the voltage across the LEDs, no?
Anyway, I'm not posting to pester you over the LED, any idea of whether these will be shipping to Norway?[/quote]
It's a series connection, so it's 4ma at 120 or 230VAC. The 4ma is a guess. I'll have to do an exact measurement sometime. It's under 1 watt in the US and double that for Norway.
Seems silly to be concerned on something that draws hundreds of watts when used and is unplugged en route to the gig or back home. In a budget fixed install generally it's either on or turned off at the power stip. Al Gore won't be coming to vist me cause I'm warming the planet with this one. Of course that's just my logic that JR loves so much.
As for shipping to Norway, we have lots in stock, so I'm sure they are shipping.
jd
Post by: JD Bennett on March 08, 2010, 11:26:14 AM
| John Roberts {JR} wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 09:37 |
Don't try to argue logic with JD, Even a cheap fan is expected to work out of the box, so if anything I am encouraged that the thermal protection worked and saved the amp from actual failure. It stands to be seen if this is an isolated (process) incident, or more general (design) issue. One amp does not prove a pattern. It will take time to see if any trends emerge. JR |
Ummmmm...... trying desperately to save face here =>
Does the IPR get any points for working for much of the gig without a fan?
Post by: Mike Pyle on March 08, 2010, 11:37:52 AM
Post by: JD Bennett on March 08, 2010, 02:05:30 PM
| Mike Pyle wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 10:37 |
Whay are all of the quotes in this thread so f*&^%d up? |
Consider the sources
Post by: Adam Whetham on March 08, 2010, 02:34:39 PM
| Mike Pyle wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 10:37 |
Whay are all of the quotes in this thread so f*&^%d up? |
I was wondering the same thing... I think they don't know what the preview button is...
Post by: Greg Cameron on March 08, 2010, 03:17:44 PM
| Adam Whetham wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 11:34 | ||
I was wondering the same thing... I think they don't know what the preview button is... |
Just as important, there's also the "edit" button when you see things are broken after the fact.
Greg
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 08, 2010, 03:36:39 PM
Hey.. I fixed it once, because it had me quoted wrong... but it comes from people improperly editing quotes, then others after them, just hitting the quote button and immortalizing the previous errors..
This thread has pretty much deteriorated into noise, and I apologize if I pressed to hard on a minor point.
JR
Post by: drewgandy on March 08, 2010, 04:02:37 PM
Since you're on the thread could you add some info?
A) Any more info on the dsp option?
B) Does the Crest version have the same dsp (it looks like the Crest features usb)?
C) Based on the picture, the Crest version has a more traditional power switch arrangement?
Thanks
drew
Post by: JD Bennett on March 08, 2010, 04:26:20 PM
| drewgandy wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 15:02 |
JD, Since you're on the thread could you add some info? A) Any more info on the dsp option? B) Does the Crest version have the same dsp (it looks like the Crest features usb)? C) Based on the picture, the Crest version has a more traditional power switch arrangement? Thanks drew |
Hi Drew
The link for the owner's manual is:
http://www.peavey.com/assets/literature/manuals/03001260_865 9.pdf
I didn't write it and I haven't proof read it, so .......
The DSP is just a basic features device. Code is still being written for the Crest version. It gets more features as well as USB. The power switch is a traditional Crest front panel magnetic/hydraulic breaker. No blue LEDs. That's gonna break JR's heart I know.
Post by: drewgandy on March 08, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Thanks, for the manual.
Seems like there are no presets at all on the IPR models (except sort of for PV speakers). And the Crest press release mentions 4 total presets. If the dsp is at all useful I think a bit more than 4 would be a must have. The IPR also seems to be missing limiters altogether in the dsp. I would gladly trade the maxxbass for a decent limiter. But that's just me. Of course the Crest seems to have both.
Any info on what goes at the other end of the usb cable? It doesn't look like the socket is on the front panel. I think that would be the preferred place for it. If it were ethernet then probably the rear.
Let us know when you have new info on the Crest versions or info on shipping dates for the higher power models in either brand.
Thanks
drew
Post by: Chris Van Duker on March 09, 2010, 02:47:10 PM
Will the Crest amps have about the same power points, or will they go up higher? Any MSRP yet on the Crests?
Incidentally, between the lack of a limiter, the single save position, and the lack of an interface for moving settings between amps, it looks like the IPR-DSP is a miss for me. But I'm still planning to try the vanilla IPRs with outboard processing.
-Chris
Post by: JD Bennett on March 09, 2010, 03:35:55 PM
| drewgandy wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 16:26 |
JD, Thanks, for the manual. Seems like there are no presets at all on the IPR models (except sort of for PV speakers). And the Crest press release mentions 4 total presets. If the dsp is at all useful I think a bit more than 4 would be a must have. The IPR also seems to be missing limiters altogether in the dsp. I would gladly trade the maxxbass for a decent limiter. But that's just me. Of course the Crest seems to have both. drew |
Hi Drew
You are correct, no presets on the IPR version. The Crest is four plus whatever you program in via the USB. The IPR gets clip limiting only. The Crest gets adjustable limiting. The Crest also gets a bit more power via larger storage caps.
Regards
Post by: JD Bennett on March 09, 2010, 04:13:02 PM
| Chris Van Duker wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 13:47 |
Sweetwater is saying a day or two until they have the IPR 6000. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IPR6000/ Will the Crest amps have about the same power points, or will they go up higher? Any MSRP yet on the Crests? -Chris |
Hi Chris
I'm going to moonwalk out of the 6000 delivery issue and let marketing handle that one
No MSRP on the Crests yet, sorry.
Post by: drewgandy on March 09, 2010, 11:01:10 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 14:35 |
The Crest is four plus whatever you program in via the USB. |
Can you expound on how this works?
drew
Post by: Doug Sprinthall on March 10, 2010, 03:31:01 PM
He didn't have much info as to what caused the delay. He did tell me that they had recieved their 1st shipment last week (they were all sold). Perhaps they will be collecters items.
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 10, 2010, 03:47:41 PM
| Doug Sprinthall wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 14:31 |
I bought a 1600 that I've been really happy with so far and ordered a 6000 from sweetwater last week as it looked like the would be in soon. Got a call from the rep today that said Peavey told them today that they wouldn't be able to ship till mid November. He didn't have much info as to what caused the delay. He did tell me that they had recieved their 1st shipment last week (they were all sold). Perhaps they will be collecters items. |
November? That will be the death of the 6000 and maybe the entire line. I presume it's a parts-sourcing issue, but by November forum users will be asking, "what's an IPR?" The buzz and curiosity will be gone and much of the market, too, as other manufacturers bring new designs to the table.
The IPR line will be well over a year past target release date. Hartley might as well scrap the model line, write it off and transfer the technology to other products.
Jerry Pournell would call this "vaporware."
Tim Mc
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on March 10, 2010, 03:51:44 PM
| Tim McCulloch wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 15:47 | ||
November? That will be the death of the 6000 and maybe the entire line. I presume it's a parts-sourcing issue, but by November forum users will be asking, "what's an IPR?" The buzz and curiosity will be gone and much of the market, too, as other manufacturers bring new designs to the table. The IPR line will be well over a year past target release date. Hartley might as well scrap the model line, write it off and transfer the technology to other products. Jerry Pournell would call this "vaporware." Tim Mc |
Crown's not having much luck with their new XLS series either. They announced them at the start of the year, originally spec'd them to be available in March, and now pre-order says June at the earliest...
Evan
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 10, 2010, 04:50:06 PM
| Tim McCulloch wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 14:47 |
November? That will be the death of the 6000 and maybe the entire line. I presume it's a parts-sourcing issue, but by November forum users will be asking, "what's an IPR?" The buzz and curiosity will be gone and much of the market, too, as other manufacturers bring new designs to the table. Tim Mc |
Wow, like Peavey never heard that before... but they're still around, making amps that piss people off because they "can't" get them yet. The only thing that matters, is what the power amp market looks like, when these amps are finally shipping, whenever that is.
If Peavey can't ship for more than half a year because of parts lead time, what makes anyone think that some other manufacturer can get parts sooner?
I'm not sure I buy that as the sole excuse for delay, but I do know that I don't know, and don't care to know.
I've got my share of butt scars on one cheek from dealers because I showed a product too soon, and on the other cheek from Hartley for not showing soon enough. It doesn't look like much has changed since I left.
JR
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 10, 2010, 04:53:54 PM
Then we'll hold off calling for last rites... I supposed it mostly depends on who can bring what to the table sooner.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
ps. Urban legend says vitamin E is good for scars...
Post by: Mike Smith on March 10, 2010, 10:23:58 PM
It's been pretty quiet at QSC. They have already achieved some success with lightweight power amps(!) and seem to know how to produce Class D designs. I'm sure they're just too busy building loudspeaker systems to bother with more amplifiers...
Post by: drewgandy on March 11, 2010, 03:12:45 AM
| Tim McCulloch wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 14:47 |
November? That will be the death of the 6000 and maybe the entire line. I presume it's a parts-sourcing issue, but by November forum users will be asking, "what's an IPR?" The buzz and curiosity will be gone and much of the market, too, as other manufacturers bring new designs to the table. The IPR line will be well over a year past target release date. Hartley might as well scrap the model line, write it off and transfer the technology to other products. Jerry Pournell would call this "vaporware." Tim Mc |
November can't be right. It's too optimistic.
drew
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on March 11, 2010, 11:45:26 AM
| drewgandy wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 03:12 | ||
November can't be right. It's too optimistic. drew |
November, 2011.
Evan
Post by: JD Bennett on March 11, 2010, 12:22:59 PM
| Evan Kirkendall wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 10:45 | ||||
November, 2011. Evan |
Guys, don't blame us, blame every #@#%@#!#% semiconductor and every ceramic cap manufacturer. The only way to build anything these days is to either wait, wait, wait, or rob parts from another project. No worries about the IPR6000. When it does come out, there will be demand. Watt to $$ ratio is too good and still will be November 2011.
Post by: Iain_Macdonald on March 11, 2010, 01:47:33 PM
Either I missed it, or nobody has yet mentioned that this Amp has the MaxxBass chip from Waves. So I am interested in what settings in the "DSP" the amp has as standard out of the box? Also can you bypass the Maxx chip?
I can foresee that a few unscrupulous sales people will really love this product? Hey! Just listen to how much bass this amp puts out compared to that xxx model.
Iain.
Post by: JD Bennett on March 11, 2010, 02:14:45 PM
| Iain Macdonald wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 12:47 |
Hi, Either I missed it, or nobody has yet mentioned that this Amp has the MaxxBass chip from Waves. So I am interested in what settings in the "DSP" the amp has as standard out of the box? Also can you bypass the Maxx chip? I can foresee that a few unscrupulous sales people will really love this product? Hey! Just listen to how much bass this amp puts out compared to that xxx model. Iain. |
Hey .... if we can cheat fair, we will
Zoom up a few posts. The link to the manual along with personal disclaimer should be there.
Post by: drewgandy on March 11, 2010, 05:40:56 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 11:22 |
Guys, don't blame us, blame every #@#%@#!#% semiconductor and every ceramic cap manufacturer. The only way to build anything these days is to either wait, wait, wait, or rob parts from another project. No worries about the IPR6000. When it does come out, there will be demand. Watt to $$ ratio is too good and still will be November 2011. |
I'm not upset. And the truth is probably that even those semiconductor and ceramic cap manufacturers wish they weren't the hold up. Maybe they're waiting on a supplier of their own. Hmm... what if the cap manufacturer was waiting on a machine to put together a new line to make a special cap. But the manufacturer of the machine needs a certain cool new power amp to test some stage of their machine. And that power amp isn't shipping because it's waiting on a special cap. They have to make chickens without eggs.
It is what it is. We'll see what happens. Now, that said, I am wondering if all the other models are currently having the same problem as the 6000. Are we likely to see the 3000 or 4500 any sooner?
And another idea. How about sending some of the prototypes to Evan and let him beat on them for several months? Depending on his results you would either have a solid review heading into the shipping date or you may want to just cancel the orders with those suppliers.
I'm likely waiting for the Crest versions before I decide if I'm interested in this.
drew
Post by: Andy Peters on March 11, 2010, 09:37:37 PM
| drewgandy wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 15:40 | ||
I'm not upset. And the truth is probably that even those semiconductor and ceramic cap manufacturers wish they weren't the hold up. Maybe they're waiting on a supplier of their own. Hmm... what if the cap manufacturer was waiting on a machine to put together a new line to make a special cap. But the manufacturer of the machine needs a certain cool new power amp to test some stage of their machine. And that power amp isn't shipping because it's waiting on a special cap. They have to make chickens without eggs. |
Naaah, it's just that a lot of the suppliers have been putting customers on allocation because the "downturn in the economy" scared them so they shut everything down last year. Once everything that was in the distribution pipeline got used up, OEMs had to wait.
So everything, even common parts, has lead times out to the summer if not later.
-a
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 11, 2010, 11:44:02 PM
Yup, everybody puckered up looking at the economy go over the edge at the end of the world, but go figure, the world is round not flat, and the sun still comes up every day. So time to turn on the chunk-a-chunk machines again.
Tho' I think the days are a little shorter since that Chile earthquake, rearranged some of our mass to a more compact arrangement.
JR
Post by: Steve Hurt on March 12, 2010, 12:18:52 AM
| drewgandy wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 17:40 |
And another idea. How about sending some of the prototypes to Evan and let him beat on them for several months? |
Screw that! Evan's too busy playing with other people's A-List rigs!
Send it to me and I'll tell you what it will do on outlets that starve it, run it into clipping all night because I didn't bring enough amps for the rig, let it bang around in the single axle 5 x 8 trailer and deal with extreme hot, cold, moisture, and dry (well not Arizona hot....but)
Hell, we'll toss it out of the van door at 65 mph into a puddle and then try to use it (like those old Crown amp ads) if you want!
Thats the kind of testing they need, by giving it exactly the abuse their target audience will throw at it!
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on March 12, 2010, 12:29:23 AM
| Steve Hurt wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 00:18 | ||
Screw that! Evan's too busy playing with other people's A-List rigs! Send it to me and I'll tell you what it will do on outlets that starve it, run it into clipping all night because I didn't bring enough amps for the rig, let it bang around in the single axle 5 x 8 trailer and deal with extreme hot, cold, moisture, and dry (well not Arizona hot....but) Hell, we'll toss it out of the van door at 65 mph into a puddle and then try to use it (like those old Crown amp ads) if you want! Thats the kind of testing they need, by giving it exactly the abuse their target audience will throw at it! |
But, I wanted to put them on a pair of mids and see what would give first: the mids, or the amp.
Evan
Post by: Matt Harris on March 12, 2010, 02:57:38 AM
Post by: David Morison on March 12, 2010, 07:56:11 AM
| Evan Kirkendall wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 05:29 |
But, I wanted to put them on a pair of mids and see what would give first: the mids, or the amp. Evan |
Given your new boxes are 960's, can I vote for Your Ears
Cheers,
David.
Post by: JD Bennett on March 12, 2010, 12:08:04 PM
| Andy Peters wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 20:37 |
.......... everything that was in the distribution pipeline got used up, OEMs had to wait. So everything, even common parts, has lead times out to the summer if not later. -a |
And that pretty well sums it up. Some parts show up late so the production managers get spooked and bump the schedule. They delay rescheduling and setting up the lines until ALL the parts arrive. Then they have to setup, build, test, pack and ship from China. Customs tosses an additional delay on the containers. From the port it's off to the warehouse for AQL testing. Finally its off to the retailer.
WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: Matt Harris on March 16, 2010, 12:53:53 AM
First impressions- The thing feels like a toy. I think I have some compressors that weigh more. looking inside, they could have maybe fit this into a single rack space. Most of it is empty!
The blue lights may get on my nerves later. I might slap some gaff on top of the LED's.
The amp was pushing a pair of yammy monitors and 2 veris 26 for infills so the amp had 4 ohms on one side and 2 ohms on the other.
Performance wise everything was flawless. I noticed no sound difference between this and the crown although I didn't get the chance to A/B them. Maybe I could take some traces soon.
The amp runs VERY cool, even with a 2ohm load. I also couldn't tell that the fan was blowing.
If the Crest versions come out I'd love to replace my 9200 with something utilizing this technology.
My back will thank me.
Post by: JD Bennett on March 16, 2010, 09:36:00 AM
| Matt Harris wrote on Mon, 15 March 2010 23:53 |
I used the IPR 1600 on my monitors and infills this past weekend....... The blue lights may get on my nerves later. I might slap some gaff on top of the LED's....... If the Crest versions come out I'd love to replace my 9200 with something utilizing this technology....... My back will thank me. |
Peavey thanks you also!
Perhaps we can convince marketing to include a pair of shades with every purchase to protect against the blues.
Post by: Jay Barracato on March 16, 2010, 09:45:19 AM
How about increasing the number the LEDs and making them programable through the DSP. We could use them to spell out band names etc.
I bet the guys in marketing would love that idea.
Jay
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on March 16, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
| Matt Harris wrote on Tue, 16 March 2010 00:53 |
The blue lights may get on my nerves later. I might slap some gaff on top of the LED's. |
First thing I did when I bought mine was put black gaff over all of the LED's. Blue LED's just scream cheap and DJ grade to me.
Evan
Post by: Matt Harris on March 16, 2010, 04:39:48 PM
| Evan Kirkendall wrote on Tue, 16 March 2010 11:14 | ||
First thing I did when I bought mine was put black gaff over all of the LED's. Blue LED's just scream cheap and DJ grade to me. Evan |
They do scream cheap. I'm going to desolder the blue LEDs and put in green ones
Post by: Scott Deeter on March 16, 2010, 05:29:05 PM
| Matt Harris wrote on Tue, 16 March 2010 16:39 | ||||
They do scream cheap. I'm going to desolder the blue LEDs and put in green ones |
When/If.........If/When they become the latest craze, then the gaff will come off and the Blue lights will be put back in so everyone will notice, "Hey....he's running with the Peavey IPR's!!!"
Post by: JD Bennett on March 16, 2010, 10:20:57 PM
Besides, come summertime, it's a great bug light.
Post by: Matt Harris on March 17, 2010, 06:54:45 AM
Post by: JD Bennett on March 17, 2010, 09:53:32 AM
| Matt Harris wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 05:54 |
Just keep them out of the Crest line up! |
Okay, just for you, since we owe you one
However, the DSP is still blue as are the signal presence LEDs. Post by: Andy Peters on March 17, 2010, 04:33:45 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Tue, 16 March 2010 19:20 |
Besides, come summertime, it's a great bug light. |
Wrong wavelength ...
-a
Post by: Ron Kimball on March 17, 2010, 04:39:54 PM
| Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 20:33 | ||
Wrong wavelength ... -a |
.
Post by: Mike Christy on March 17, 2010, 04:56:00 PM
| Matt Harris wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 06:54 |
Just keep them out of the Crest line up! |
It may already be on the AVL... the Crest CC series have that same BRIGHT blue LED on the front panel, I'll wager you a glass of green beer it the same LED in the IPRs, good chance it could be in the 7# Crests!
Post by: JD Bennett on March 17, 2010, 05:37:45 PM
| Mike Christy wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 15:56 | ||
It may already be on the AVL... the Crest CC series have that same BRIGHT blue LED on the front panel, I'll wager you a glass of green beer it the same LED in the IPRs, good chance it could be in the 7# Crests! |
Nooooo, you aren't that lucky. The CC series uses a smaller & lower illumination LED. The IPR uses the same LEDs as in the Crest 200 series.
Email me my green beer.
jd
Post by: Mike Christy on March 17, 2010, 05:49:29 PM
| JD Bennett wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 17:37 | ||||
Nooooo, you aren't that lucky. The CC series uses a smaller & lower illumination LED. The IPR uses the same LEDs as in the Crest 200 series. Email me my green beer. jd |
Too late JD, it's in my tummy!
(BTW the CC4000 has been a great performer for me on subs, bought before the 5500 was released, oh well)
Mike
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on April 21, 2010, 03:39:24 PM
Apparently a congressional audit found a few other shortcomings in the energy star program.. besides turning on LEDs to save energy, like this gasoline powered alarm clock, etc. .
JR