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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Installed Sound/Contracting => Topic started by: Mike Caldwell on April 30, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
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Has anyone heard the One Systems horn loaded "Cross Field Array" model used in a typical football field scoreboard installation. If so how do you think it compared to the Community R2-52 in terms of throw, clarity, output.
Thanks
Mike C.
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I've been really interested in this as well! we have a bid out for the crossfield array now. If we install it, I'll post my feedback.
I've always thought the community outdoor stuff is great, no complaints so far, but I'm always looking for other options.
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Just reporting back. We got the job a while back, I Have just been too busy. The task was to shoot approx. 85 feet across a soccer field towards the home seating section at a high school. System is used for music playback and game announcements. We had no problem hitting 103 DB (A) with a QSC CMX 800 at 85' with plenty of headroom at the amp. While we didn't get the chance to do a side by side comparison, we do know that both do the job very well, but IMO the Crossfield array has a bit more clarity at long distances.
The customers were blown away that the sound was coming from a single speaker...
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Thanks for the update!
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Just reporting back. We got the job a while back, I Have just been too busy. The task was to shoot approx. 85 feet across a soccer field towards the home seating section at a high school. System is used for music playback and game announcements. We had no problem hitting 103 DB (A) with a QSC CMX 800 at 85' with plenty of headroom at the amp. While we didn't get the chance to do a side by side comparison, we do know that both do the job very well, but IMO the Crossfield array has a bit more clarity at long distances.
The customers were blown away that the sound was coming from a single speaker...
I'd like to know more about the installation. Location of the speaker? Also, did you bridge the amp?
Thanks for the followup
Rain
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I was wondering about the amp as well, in stereo mode that's not much power considering what the speaker is rated for and the output you were getting at that distance. But it is an efficient box.
I'd like to know more about the installation. Location of the speaker? Also, did you bridge the amp?
Thanks for the followup
Rain
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Yes, we ran the amp in bridged mode which put us in the ballpark of 2400 watts (QSC spec). I do not recall the gain setting on the amp but it was very low... We mounted the loudspeaker (using One System's pan/tilt bracket) to the front of the field house approximately 14' to the top of the cabinet so that most of the high frequencies would travel over the heads of the players on the field. HF coverage started roughly halfway across the field.
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Yes, we ran the amp in bridged mode which put us in the ballpark of 2400 watts (QSC spec). I do not recall the gain setting on the amp but it was very low...
The gain setting on the amp has nothing to do with the output capability of the amplifier. You can turn it almost all the way down and the amp can still produce full output (until it gets so low the input stage distorts before the output stage).
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The gain setting on the amp has nothing to do with the output capability of the amplifier. You can turn it almost all the way down and the amp can still produce full output (until it gets so low the input stage distorts before the output stage).
What gain setting? The CMX 800V gain is apparently fixed 46X or 33dB gain. Now the front panel attenuators...
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Ivan, I didn't say that it does. I see how you assumed that because of he preceding sentence, but the point is, we had headroom left. We all know it's not a wattage control.
Brad, QSC has called it a "gain control" knob for years. RMX series evn has it labeled as such. Lol.
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Ivan, I didn't say that it does. I see how you assumed that because of he preceding sentence, but the point is, we had headroom left. We all know it's not a wattage control.
Brad, QSC has called it a "gain control" knob for years. RMX series evn has it labeled as such. Lol.
I would not say "WE ALL"-because that question/statement come up all the time-so I would say that "a large number" of people in the "audio" business don't realize that if you turn the amp down, it can still produce full output.
And turning down the the level control does not give you any more headroom. So your statement about the control being turned down is pretty much meaningless. The way it was stated would leave one to believe that you thought that you had more "level left" BECAUSE the the knob was turned down. The position of the knob has nothing to do with headroom.
And the term "gain" is totally correct, it is a gain knob-that controls the gain from the input to the output of the amplifier. But I have NEVER seen one that says "wattage" or "output power" on it.
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What gain setting? The CMX 800V gain is apparently fixed 46X or 33dB gain. Now the front panel attenuators...
I was refering to the gain setting as a "general" term on amplifiers. The term "gain" couild also be misused, becuase if you look at the whole amplifier as a "gain unit", then the "control knob" affects the overall gain.
Agreed the "control knob" does not add any gain (per say)in the particular stage it is is (like the feedback loop of an amplifier), but rather controls the overall gain of the amplifer by attenuating the input signal to require more drive voltage to get to full output.
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Ivan,
You are absolutely correct. Unfortunatly, we didn't measure the input voltage (to the amp), so that specific statement was indeed meaningless. But we can say that USUALLY full output potential is NOT reached at -24db (amp input attenuation/gain) or so with typical input voltage, and thats what lead me to believe that we were not close to maxing out the headroom on the amp.
Back to the topic... I was pretty impressed with the Crossfield Array. I kinda wish I had one. My company does a Relay for Life were I send a wireless signal to 4 JBL Eon's to cover the opposite side of the field/track. If there was an easy way to deploy one closer to the stage, and shoot it at the back half of the field, I wouldn't have so many audio delay issues at mid-field. The only thing is I worry that with the vertical coverage of my mains that would cause comb filtering issues.
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Ivan,
You are absolutely correct. Unfortunatly, we didn't measure the input voltage (to the amp), so that specific statement was indeed meaningless. But we can say that USUALLY full output potential is NOT reached at -24db (amp input attenuation/gain) or so with typical input voltage, and thats what lead me to believe that we were not close to maxing out the headroom on the amp.
I would be a bit concerned that with 24dB atten on the level control, that the input stage would be overloaded before the output could reach full output.
On some of the pro amps I have measured, once you get to -15 to -20 on the level control, then drive it hard, the input stage clips.
Of course if you don't drive it hard, it doesn't clip.
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Brad, QSC has called it a "gain control" knob for years. RMX series evn has it labeled as such. Lol.
Some amps do have actual adjustable gain but the controls of the CMX 800V being discussed are labeled "ATTEN" and the manual refers to them as "Attenuation control" and "attenuation knobs".
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Some amps do have actual adjustable gain but the controls of the CMX 800V being discussed are labeled "ATTEN" and the manual refers to them as "Attenuation control" and "attenuation knobs".
So the glass is half empty, not half full?
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So the glass is half empty, not half full?
Ayyuuup. Gotta be careful with them pedantics and semantics, them's is stink-bait 'round these here parts.
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Has anyone heard the One Systems horn loaded "Cross Field Array" model used in a typical football field scoreboard installation. If so how do you think it compared to the Community R2-52 in terms of throw, clarity, output.
Thanks
Mike C.
Thanks for posting a thread on that. I learned about something new today.