Post by: Howell Repaja on November 02, 2010, 11:17:35 PM
I am planning to buy for the following with a tight budget.
1. Active Crossovers
Which to choose? behringer Super-X Pro CX3400 or dbx 234XL
2. Graphic Equalizers
Which to choose? Behringer Ultragraph FBQ-PRO FBQ6200,
dbx 231 or any dbx equivalent to behringer?
3. Feedback Suppressors
Which to Choose? behringer FEEDBACK DESTROYER PRO FBQ2496 or dbx AFS224?
I am new to this Pro-audio Gadgets, I am planning to buy, but im confused and i am tempted with Behringers low price. Please share your reviews for these products or any other products.
Thanks very much.
Post by: Adam Whetham on November 03, 2010, 12:20:12 AM
EQ. Get the DBX, splurge and get the 1231 if you have the rack space.
Feedback suppressor, Don't get one, instead learn proper mic, and speaker placement, along with using your EQ to notch problem spots.
Post by: Howell Repaja on November 03, 2010, 01:48:51 AM
Thanks for your ideas and reviews. What is the difference between 231 and 1231? do they have effects aside from gain range?
Hi all,
Any other has experienced with these gadgets? Thanks.
Post by: Nils SK Erickson on November 03, 2010, 12:45:35 PM
For a similar price point you could get a DBX drive rack PA or 260 which gives you much more robust signal processing possibilities.
Post by: Alexander Beitzel on November 03, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
Post by: Adam Whetham on November 04, 2010, 02:18:22 AM
| Nils Erickson wrote on Wed, 03 November 2010 11:45 |
IMHO... the DBX 1231 is a fairly noisy device. For a similar price point you could get a DBX drive rack PA or 260 which gives you much more robust signal processing possibilities. |
Never noticed it in any rock and roll setting.
Main thing i like about the 1231 more is the longer fader travel. It seems to make a difference when doing adjustments.
Also he didn't really mention what he was using these units for so recommending a Drive rack 260 for a replacement is kind of a little overkill if he's looking for a monitor EQ, as its much easier to grab and notch than go into the computer.
Post by: Howell Repaja on November 04, 2010, 12:11:13 PM
So, if i am on a budget? Is it OK i will go to dbx 231 not the 1231?
How about active crossover? is dbx is much more worthy than behringer?
Please share all your experiences. Thanks.
Post by: Alexander Beitzel on November 04, 2010, 12:21:13 PM
Post by: Nils SK Erickson on November 04, 2010, 12:25:20 PM
If you get a chance take a listen to the hiss the 1231 puts out (without live mics), pull a few of the eqs down (like you're notching a monitor mix) and listen to how the unit responds, I often find the hiss is more prominent and perhaps actually louder.
To me that hiss means intelligibility suffers until you match that db level and leads to a less musical experience.
Howell what are you using the gear for? Bar bands, presentations?
It will probably help folks make good recommendation to know what you are willing to $pend on the gear too.
Post by: Howell Repaja on November 04, 2010, 12:43:51 PM
| Nils Erickson wrote on Fri, 05 November 2010 00:25 |
I agree with you on the fader distance. If you get a chance take a listen to the hiss the 1231 puts out (without live mics), pull a few of the eqs down (like you're notching a monitor mix) and listen to how the unit responds, I often find the hiss is more prominent and perhaps actually louder. To me that hiss means intelligibility suffers until you match that db level and leads to a less musical experience. Howell what are you using the gear for? Bar bands, presentations? It will probably help folks make good recommendation to know what you are willing to $pend on the gear too. |
Hi Nils,
I will be using it for mobile sound system, like disco party, live bands sometimes, any other public programs outdoor.
Thanks. Please recommend whats the best to $pend.
Post by: Nils SK Erickson on November 04, 2010, 02:41:21 PM
When I buy gear I like to get the very best I can afford and that will hopefully not need to be upgraded in a couple-few years (no point in spending the money twice).
The higher up the product lines you go, you generally get better performance and more functions in each box... some folks like this and some prefer more modular systems which are easier break up for those times you have multiple setups. Some folks are also very fond of their graphic eq sliders.
I've not had bad experiences with behringer gear myself, but I've heard some horror stories.
For what you'd spend on the eq, crossover, and FB suppressor the Driverack PA is right in that ballpark. I think its eq sounds better than the 1231 and it will do all of those functions in one rack space. But I also don't mind scrolling through some menus during setup.
Post by: Nils SK Erickson on November 04, 2010, 02:49:25 PM
If you do go with a feedback suppressor... First think about the placement of your microphones and speakers... place monitors where the microphones naturally reject sound (many cardiod mics have little response around 45-60 degrees off the back of the mic), make sure your singer's head is in the path of the HF drivers. Then put some pink noise in them and get a reasonably flat response in each.
This should serve you well in most situations. If you still don't have good gain before feedback, complain loudly about the architect, buy hypercardiod mics, and then think about dusting off your feedback suppressor.
And I wouldn't let a feedback suppressor take out more than a few squeals... You can get some really bad sound by letting a piece of hardware think for you.
Post by: Howell Repaja on November 04, 2010, 02:56:19 PM
Any other experiences? Who tried behringer eq's? Please share.
Post by: Bob Josjor on November 05, 2010, 07:52:29 AM
I own a music store and was once tempted to bring in Behry as an entry level line of gear. Did some inquiries with fellow store owners that were Behry dealers. Many of them reported return rates as high as 40%!
I'm a Peavey dealer. Many Peavey products aren't priced much more than most Behry products. My return rate with Peavey is almost zero.Just saying.
Oh, and as long as I'm "Just saying", an oft repeated phrase is "Buy once, cry once." Spend a little more money for your gear and you'll only cry about the initial investment. Spend a lot less for your gear and you cry when you spend the money and cry again each time it fails you.
Post by: Howell Repaja on November 05, 2010, 09:33:45 AM
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on November 05, 2010, 10:53:59 AM
| Bob Josjor wrote on Fri, 05 November 2010 06:52 |
Behrenger? Well, I would challenge you to find a true pro that has any in the rack that they truly depend on. I own a music store and was once tempted to bring in Behry as an entry level line of gear. Did some inquiries with fellow store owners that were Behry dealers. Many of them reported return rates as high as 40%! I'm a Peavey dealer. Many Peavey products aren't priced much more than most Behry products. My return rate with Peavey is almost zero.Just saying. Oh, and as long as I'm "Just saying", an oft repeated phrase is "Buy once, cry once." Spend a little more money for your gear and you'll only cry about the initial investment. Spend a lot less for your gear and you cry when you spend the money and cry again each time it fails you. |
While it warms my heart to hear such anecdotes, this second-hand hearsay about 40% failure rates in "behry" (Behringer?) without attribution is not very credible. Any company suffering even a fraction of that failure rate couldn't possibly stay in business.
I don't doubt that there may have been specific production runs of some models with unacceptable failure rates, but on the whole, they must be making a number of perhaps less discerning customers happy as they are prospering.
I find it amusing to hear "buy once cry once" mentioned in the same post with Peavey, but perhaps compared to the new crop of bottom feeders who have redefined cheap. Peavey has never really been cheap (IMO), while not featured up for big dog professional users, it is built to a decent standard of performance and reliability on a budget (of course I may be biased by my past exposure to years of drinking the corporate kool aid, but I know more than a little about what goes on under the hood).
JR
Post by: Nils SK Erickson on November 05, 2010, 11:20:56 AM
Post by: John Chiara on November 05, 2010, 03:01:14 PM
| Bob Josjor wrote on Fri, 05 November 2010 07:52 |
Behrenger? Well, I would challenge you to find a true pro that has any in the rack that they truly depend on. . |
I have Behringer digital units in a few small installs and in my smallest system monitor rack and all has been well with them.
Bought 3 Peavey CS4080HZ amps since 2007.....one totally destroyed itself and one other went in the shop yesterday for malfunctioning fans.
My bigger rig has a UX8800 that was shipped with very old firmware and that went down during a county fair.
Sometimes stuff breaks regardless of cost or company. Gotta know what you are committing to and accept the risks...or not. YMMV
Post by: Nils SK Erickson on November 05, 2010, 04:58:52 PM
| Bob Josjor wrote on Fri, 05 November 2010 07:52 |
Behringer? Well, I would challenge you to find a true pro that has any in the rack that they truly depend on. . |
I was just on a Barenaked Ladies load in and they had several ADA8000 for their recording setup.
Post by: Bob Josjor on November 06, 2010, 09:29:11 AM
"Behringer? Well, I would challenge you to find a LOT of true pro's that have any in the rack that they truly depend on."
As for my statement about the high failure rates, that is taken from several Behringer dealers throughout the nation via honest replies they gave at an independant-music-store-owner-only web forum I am a member of.
Sorry, but when you can buy their "pro" audio products at Walmart, it simply doesn't inspire confidence.
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=Behr inger&ic=48_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=0
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on November 06, 2010, 10:04:54 AM
| Bob Josjor wrote on Sat, 06 November 2010 08:29 |
I am never too proud to admit when I'm wrong. Let me re-phrase my statement: "Behringer? Well, I would challenge you to find a LOT of true pro's that have any in the rack that they truly depend on." As for my statement about the high failure rates, that is taken from several Behringer dealers throughout the nation via honest replies they gave at an independant-music-store-owner-only web forum I am a member of. Sorry, but when you can buy their "pro" audio products at Walmart, it simply doesn't inspire confidence. http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=Behr inger&ic=48_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=0 |
Believe me when I say I have no love for Behringer. Them being sold in Walmart is certainly reason for dealers to question their loyalty to dealers.
There is no dispute that they are targeting low end consumers. Their product seems about right for Walmart who has been flirting with too cheap to work right for years.
A 40% failure rate would not be tolerated by Walmart either. Some of the worst of the weak sister SKUs have been identified and discussed here and about, but entry level customers are not very discerning, and haven't reached the show must go on part of their career yet.
JR
Post by: Howell Repaja on November 06, 2010, 07:56:59 PM
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on November 06, 2010, 08:13:56 PM
| Howell Repaja wrote on Sat, 06 November 2010 18:56 |
Thanks for your info JR, this can help a lot for a starter like me. |
If you can't afford the better new dbx vs new behringer consider buying better quality used gear.
or not...
No simple answers
JR
Post by: Duane Massey on November 07, 2010, 10:02:08 PM
No doubt the majority of applications can be handled quite adequately with a 1/3 EQ, but the 1/60th filters in most FBX's are much better at surgically removing the offending frequency.
FBX should be a last resort, not a first-choice device.
If you have a decent knowledge of sound equipment I'd suggest 1 of the following for mobile DJ operation:
DBX DRPA+
BSS DS26 or DS24, depending upon your system
Behringer Ultradrive
I have used (and will continue to use) some Behringer products, but the analog crossovers in their line are pretty much unusable, as the cut/boost range is only 8db.
The build quality of the DBX vs Behringer is an issue (DBX is superior), but the Behringer is useable if you have few options.
I do continue to see the Composer Pro units in FOH racks and some studios for secondary apps.
Post by: Guy Johnson on November 12, 2010, 06:43:46 PM
DBX better IMHO ... and yes, they're a bit noisy if you're not careful with gain structure.
Feedback destroyers work ... bearing in mind they are just another tool ...
~ Good for catching feedback from mike-wavers and cuppers.
~ Good for people not used to mics and feedback.
~ Good for tidying up a sound system which is not far from feeding back if the customer wants More Volume.
One thing I like is taming bass-feedback, allowing a warmer tone than a 1/3rd octave graphic / desk Eq would allow. I like that a lot, especially with some vocals and many bassier acoustic instruments.