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Title: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: peter dakin on October 11, 2012, 04:50:18 AM
Anyone recommend a robust one?

I'm after one that's battery powered to quickly test cable runs and self-powered speakers.

Regards
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 11, 2012, 09:11:25 AM
Anyone recommend a robust one?

I'm after one that's battery powered to quickly test cable runs and self-powered speakers.

Regards

I could use one of these.

The Rational Acoustics Noise Stick is great but requires phantom power.

The Ive IE-20 is (after 30+ years) still one of the best portable PNG's and it has a rechargeable battery plus stepped attenuator. But it has an unbalanced output into an RCA. No room for an XLR. Dang.

Shure used to make a battery powered stick-style generator but it (only) provided a 700Hz tone, IIRC.  The replacement battery was hard to find and also not rechargeable.

What I use (which serves this purpose) is an NTI Minirator Pro. But it costs a pretty penny, requires a cable and is not easy to put in your pocket.
 
I would like to see a stick style pink-noise generator with rechargeable or common (easy to find) battery plus 3 step (minimum) gain (level) range switch.

Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Sam Feine on October 11, 2012, 10:23:10 AM
Its is in no way a stick, nor is it cheap, but the Whirlwind cab driver is very robust, has an XLR output and also has the added benefit of being able to test all sorts of non powered speakers.

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/testers/cab-driver
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: kristianjohnsen on October 11, 2012, 10:31:32 AM
Anyone recommend a robust one?

I'm after one that's battery powered to quickly test cable runs and self-powered speakers.

Regards

I also have one powered by phantom power.

How about one of those nearly free MP3 players?

Speaking of which.  I'd love to see a MP3 player housed in an XLR shell!
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Riley Casey on October 11, 2012, 11:39:27 AM
While I still use my Q Box for fast on stage testing I have gone over to my iPhone entirely in the shop for pink noise and tone sweeping.  $1 gets a simple app, $10 gets a full feature app.  Simply recording 30 secs of pink and dumping it on your phone gets you a free sig gen. Plus or minus the cost of the phone.  :P

Anyone recommend a robust one?

I'm after one that's battery powered to quickly test cable runs and self-powered speakers.

Regards
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 11, 2012, 12:02:35 PM
Over the decades I have doodled with a circuit design to make a handy battery powered pocket tester. The premise was to make a free running oscillator, where the frequency of the oscillator would vary based on termination impedance.

Ideally it would provide recognizable frequency discrimination between 0-2-4-8 ohms, all the way up to 600 ohm-2k-10k-higher. Obviously a nonlinear scale.

The oscillator would make enough output to actually be audible (while not very loud) when connected to a speaker, while not so loud, that it would cream a mic input.

I planned to use a square wave, or some variant waveform, so even a LF pitch, could have MF and HF output to exercise all loudspeaker drivers.

So kind of a swiss-army continuity tester, impedance checker, yadda yadda...

Another one of my projects I never finished. FWIW  this would have to sell for next to nothing, so not much dollar sales volume to speak of and encourage me to finish.

JR
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Steve Milner on October 11, 2012, 01:58:28 PM
Anyone recommend a robust one?

I'm after one that's battery powered to quickly test cable runs and self-powered speakers.

Regards

 These aren't pink noise sticks, but if you're on the hunt for testing tools, Dave Rat has some pretty awesome stuff available these days that he has designed himself for his touring needs. The XLR sniffer might work for your needs.

http://www.ratsoundsales.com/soundtools/ (http://www.ratsoundsales.com/soundtools/)

Steve
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Scott Cameron on October 11, 2012, 08:08:07 PM
These aren't pink noise sticks, but if you're on the hunt for testing tools, Dave Rat has some pretty awesome stuff available these days that he has designed himself for his touring needs. The XLR sniffer might work for your needs.

http://www.ratsoundsales.com/soundtools/ (http://www.ratsoundsales.com/soundtools/)

Steve

With a y-split you can use the sender as a phantom power source which would let you use the noise stick as mentioned above.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Lee Douglas on October 11, 2012, 10:24:05 PM
Anyone recommend a robust one?

I'm after one that's battery powered to quickly test cable runs and self-powered speakers.

Regards

Not exactly a stick, but I have a Heath Kit AD 1309 Pink-White Noise Generator that still sees a fair amount of use.  Runs of a 9v battery.  Unbalanced out but still useful for testing.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: peter dakin on October 12, 2012, 06:30:14 AM
I would like to see a stick style pink-noise generator with rechargeable or common (easy to find) battery plus 3 step (minimum) gain (level) range switch.

Yup that's the one I'm after, I'll take two please!
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Simon Lewis on October 12, 2012, 07:30:36 AM
If you can tolerate 1kHz sine wave rather than pink noise then the Ebtech cable tester (or the low cost Behringer "tribute" version) might suit?

Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 12, 2012, 08:00:37 AM
If you can tolerate 1kHz sine wave rather than pink noise then the Ebtech cable tester (or the low cost Behringer "tribute" version) might suit?

Think about it: what does a single frequency tone tell you about the condition of a loudspeaker as opposed to random noise which typically covers the audio spectrum?
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Ed Walters on October 12, 2012, 08:46:33 AM
Think about it: what does a single frequency tone tell you about the condition of a loudspeaker as opposed to random noise which typically covers the audio spectrum?

Is the voice coil rubbing?

If a signal path rather than a loudspeaker in isolation, is it nummy, noisy, or crackly, or distorted? None of these things can be easily determined with pink noise; all are easier to notice with sinusoids....

Ed Walters
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: peter dakin on October 12, 2012, 09:14:39 AM
thanks for the input guys, but i'm really looking for something that does away with having to have a device with cables etc.
I don't need a tester to find faults with wiring, I purely want a simple device to test active speakers or all parts of a x-over are receiving signal, before being flown in the air.

I currently use an ipod with cable to play pink noise, but its annoying to have to find cable and plug ipod in test etc. I just wanted something like the rational noise stick that can easily sit in my pocket. Having to carry a y-split cable to supply 48v, is just the same as carrying ipod cable.

As mentioned a 1k tone doesn't really achieve what I require as I need a full range signal to make sure every element (Sub/LMF/MF/HF) is receiving a signal and devices mentioned still require cables

Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: James Brooks on October 12, 2012, 09:15:50 AM
Goldline GLPN
Pink Noise Generator
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 12, 2012, 09:41:32 AM
Is the voice coil rubbing?

If a signal path rather than a loudspeaker in isolation, is it nummy, noisy, or crackly, or distorted? None of these things can be easily determined with pink noise; all are easier to notice with sinusoids....

Ed Walters

A variable sine wave perhaps, so you can find the particular nasties. Wide band Noise should be better than single fixed tone. But anything is better than nothing for troubleshooting.

JR
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 12, 2012, 10:17:56 AM
Is the voice coil rubbing?

If a signal path rather than a loudspeaker in isolation, is it nummy, noisy, or crackly, or distorted? None of these things can be easily determined with pink noise; all are easier to notice with sinusoids....

Ed Walters

Make that swept sin waves / sinusoids and I'll concede that I should have been more specific.

But the swept sin wave test for distortion needs to be pretty loud in level and is not something one does "on the fly", as implied was needed by the OP.  It also requires a potentiometer (or consist of a wav file) for the sweep function. Either of these would be kind of hard to put on or in a stick/tube device which is what was requested and is required for insertion into the ldspkrs input without need for a cable.

As far as hum, if the tester is battery powered (and therefore not connected to building or tech power ground) it will likely not exhibit hum as might occur when the loudspeaker is connected in a system.

Speaking for myself and (perhaps) the OP; we need a pink noise generator in stick form that is battery powered. This allows one to check several base performance characteristics (ie: the general "health") of self-powered loudspeakers, etc. "on the fly" and without complete diagnostics which are better done in the shop.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: peter dakin on October 12, 2012, 10:19:03 AM
Goldline GLPN
Pink Noise Generator

requires phantom.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 12, 2012, 10:21:59 AM
Goldline GLPN
Pink Noise Generator

It is apparent that you missed the part about being battery powered ...... not phantom powered.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: peter dakin on October 12, 2012, 10:27:25 AM
Speaking for myself and (perhaps) the OP; we need a pink noise generator in stick form that is battery powered. This allows one to check several base performance characteristics (ie: the general "health") of self-powered loudspeakers, etc. "on the fly" and without complete diagnostics which are better done in the shop.

Exactly.. when flying active speakers, such as Meyer boxes, you can have 40+ boxes flown in the air, all requiring power and all requiring signal.
Obviously you want to test each speaker, to ensure it is receiving power and signal, before been flown to "array height", motor cables put away and safety secured, which will generally have happened by the time you have your FOH/multi's ran out. I want a more streamlined device, without cables.
The 'noise-stick' by rational acoustics is exactly what I need, expect for requiring 48v. To get 48v will require cables and another device to supply power, which is more cumbersome than what I already have.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: peter dakin on October 12, 2012, 10:33:05 AM
It is apparent that you missed the part about being battery powered ...... not phantom powered.

specs state "12Vdc - 48Vdc phantom power", and "when connected to 48v LED illuminates", doesn't say anywhere about a battery.. if it does have a battery, I'm all ears!

The European versions: http://www.optogate.com/html/testere.html all state 48v.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Jordan Wolf on October 12, 2012, 11:15:52 AM
Peter,

I couldn't find any with a balanced output, but Markertek makes one (http://www.markertek.com/attachments/productspecs/pn-2_datasheet.pdf) that works on a 9V and uses a 1/4" TS output.  For those short distances you're testing at, you don't NEED a balanced line, do you?

You could also use a battery-powered phantom power adapter like this one (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicPower2/) with a Pink Stick to get you going…plus, they're handy to have around anyway.

EDIT: After listening to Dave Rat's video about his XLR sniffer, you can use the battery-powered side as a +12V DC supply.  Rational Acoustics' pink noise stick can operate on 12V, so it would be alright - especially for your uses.  Just add a wye cable and you're golden.  The only small downside is you're dealing with low dBu (-33) compared to pro line level, which the speakers are going to see.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Kent Thompson on October 12, 2012, 12:15:37 PM
nvm not what I thought it was...
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 12, 2012, 12:50:57 PM
Exactly.. when flying active speakers, such as Meyer boxes, you can have 40+ boxes flown in the air, all requiring power and all requiring signal.
Obviously you want to test each speaker, to ensure it is receiving power and signal, before been flown to "array height", motor cables put away and safety secured, which will generally have happened by the time you have your FOH/multi's ran out. I want a more streamlined device, without cables.
The 'noise-stick' by rational acoustics is exactly what I need, expect for requiring 48v. To get 48v will require cables and another device to supply power, which is more cumbersome than what I already have.

Maybe John Roberts can weigh-in on the viability of such a device. Is there an inherent obstacle to providing pink noise from a stick/tube package (that is able to be inserted into an XLR receptacle) in balanced form and powered by an internal battery ? The battery(s) would have to be AA or AAA size. Could they be rechargeable by plugging the device into a charger *or* a mixer input w phantom power ?
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 12, 2012, 01:08:58 PM
Maybe John Roberts can weigh-in on the viability of such a device. Is there an inherent obstacle to providing pink noise from a stick/tube package (that is able to be inserted into an XLR receptacle) in balanced form and powered by an internal battery ? The battery(s) would have to be AA or AAA size. Could they be rechargeable by plugging the device into a charger *or* a mixer input w phantom power ?

It's certainly doable, but is it worth me doing... probably not.

I would need a more complete definition to give a more complete answer, but just like most things these days a simple MP3 sound file player can make any sound(s) you want.

I think the balanced output is a stretch. For a floating battery powered dongle, there is no external ground connection to corrupt the signal.

A digital console should be able to make noise, or playback a noise file, so what's the difference between patching an XLR from the console into each amp input or a pocket playback source.

In fact this sounds like another candidate for an  $0.99 Iphone app. 

It is against my personal philosophy to design hardware for applications that can be satisfied with an Iphone app, or console plug-in. If I did I would redesign my TS-1 and put a noise source in it along with other bells and whistles, but no, that window of opportunity has passed me by.

JR

 
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Riley Casey on October 12, 2012, 02:30:46 PM
+3 

Whirlwind makes the closet thing to an industry standard box with annual unit sales of what maybe 5000 units and a sale price $200.   A purpose built XLR barrel with volume control, a switch between pink noise and sine wave, output up to one volt into 10K ohm from a AA battery with annual unit volume of maybe 200 pieces?  I'm guessing $500 per unit might cover it.  Just convince someone to pony up a few $k and a few months of effort to design and build a prototype and work up the production resources, line up some working capital - the usual drill.

Apple and presumeably Samsung make do everything boxes with unit sales in the millions and a selling price not much more than the Qbox. Sounds like JR is right on the money.


It's certainly doable, but is it worth me doing... probably not.

I would need a more complete definition to give a more complete answer, but just like most things these days a simple MP3 sound file player can make any sound(s) you want.

I think the balanced output is a stretch. For a floating battery powered dongle, there is no external ground connection to corrupt the signal.

A digital console should be able to make noise, or playback a noise file, so what's the difference between patching an XLR from the console into each amp input or a pocket playback source.

In fact this sounds like another candidate for an  $0.99 Iphone app. 

It is against my personal philosophy to design hardware for applications that can be satisfied with an Iphone app, or console plug-in. If I did I would redesign my TS-1 and put a noise source in it along with other bells and whistles, but no, that window of opportunity has passed me by.

JR
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 12, 2012, 04:20:53 PM
It's certainly doable, but is it worth me doing... probably not.

I really didn't mean to suggest that you would want to do this. I was just interested in your assessment.

I would need a more complete definition to give a more complete answer, but just like most things these days a simple MP3 sound file player can make any sound(s) you want.

We need something kept handy (in shoulder bag, tool box or work box), easy to just put in pants pocket when needed and can survive a drop of 60' or so. Plus it needs to plug into the XLR input of the speaker or speaker patch panel or other device we wish to test.  Having to also schlep a cable puts a serious damper on simplicity an ease

I think the balanced output is a stretch. For a floating battery powered dongle, there is no external ground connection to corrupt the signal.

But we need to drive a balanced input.

A digital console should be able to make noise, or playback a noise file, so what's the difference between patching an XLR from the console into each amp input or a pocket playback source.

And if the console is not "out" (at the gig or in the warehouse) ? Or what about if you find one element in a selfpowered array/cluster to be non-functioning and you have also checked the drive (line level) cable up to the input of the speaker, the next step is to plug into the speaker and this could be while up in the air.

In fact this sounds like another candidate for an  $0.99 Iphone app. 

Given all points I made, not so.

It is against my personal philosophy to design hardware for applications that can be satisfied with an Iphone app, or console plug-in. If I did I would redesign my TS-1 and put a noise source in it along with other bells and whistles, but no, that window of opportunity has passed me by.

Your TS-1 would not be a good candidate for this extremely compact and "single minded" device.

JR
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 12, 2012, 04:57:36 PM


That is how I assess stuff...

====
While you don't want to drop your smart phone 60', MP3 players are pretty compact.

=======

I still don't understand the fixation on balanced output.  You can put a single ended signal into a balanced input and have it work fine. You would only lose the modest additional troubleshooting benefit of exercising both pins of the XLR input connector.

======

The circuitry to do this is about like your pinky fingernail. The 3 position level control switch will probably be larger than that, and the battery will be larger again than all that.

Without a detailed spec I can only guess, but I would be inclined to use a metal tube with XLR male sticking out one end, the on/off and level coming out the other end. The length of tube, could be defined by the voltage needs (i.e. x number of batteries). For example what is the max level of the pink noise and crest factor of that noise waveform? Of course it doesn't have to use AA cells that will grow to some significant length if several volts are needed. While smaller more exotic cells will not deliver the mA hours.   

I could imagine this being relatively large/heavy pocket candy, due to xlr diameter & batteries length, not something you hang from your keychain.   

JR

I suspect you could look at any other similar gadget that share similar connector/battery/etc constraints. The circuity is the relatively easy part.
 
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Simon Lewis on October 12, 2012, 07:02:34 PM
Think about it: what does a single frequency tone tell you about the condition of a loudspeaker as opposed to random noise which typically covers the audio spectrum?
Granted - not much use for speaker analysis - but I've used a cheap device such as that as a low cost test tone generator that can work at mic or line level, and is robust enough to live in the tool box. 
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 12, 2012, 07:33:59 PM
Granted - not much use for speaker analysis - but I've used a cheap device such as that as a low cost test tone generator that can work at mic or line level, and is robust enough to live in the tool box.

With all due respect, that's not quite right. As someone else pointed out, tones can reveal several speaker flaws. But you need to sweep over a range of frequencies (which frequencies depends on whether it's a LF cone or a HF device) and the signal must be amplified.

Everyone with a serious/professional association with audio has a tone generator of one sort or another.

They are invaluable for testing all sorts of things.

But this has nothig to do wth the OP.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Frank DeWitt on October 12, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
Are you willing to do just a little bit of work?  OK  pick one of the many telephone toners.  You can chose by case size or shape or you can pick by the tone.  Some have selectable hi lo or warble.  cut off the alligator clips and wire on a XLR.  (you may need to wire in a simple resistive pad as well. )

Example
http://www.triplett.com/products/fox-and-hound-series/detail/10-fox-and-hound-series/flypage/58-the-fox-jr-a-hound-jr-kit-compact-wire-a-cable-tracing-kit?sef=hcfp

Got to have Pink noise?  build one of these, put it in a little tiny box, run 6 in to a XLR plug.
http://www.vellemanusa.com/support/downloads/?code=K4301

Got to have it in a XLR plug?  Buy a talking greeting card repackage the components (one chip and one miniature coin battery)
I tried it. It works, the sound quality is BAD.

Got to have it on a XLR plug.  Get one of these and some RTV  http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-4GB-Recording-Pen-USB-Flash-Memory-Mp3-Pen-Voice-Recorder-Mp3-Player-USB-Pen-/150921067804?pt=Voice_Recorders&hash=item232398bd1c
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 12, 2012, 09:12:52 PM
Are you willing to do just a little bit of work?  OK  pick one of the many telephone toners.  You can chose by case size or shape or you can pick by the tone.  Some have selectable hi lo or warble.  cut off the alligator clips and wire on a XLR.  (you may need to wire in a simple resistive pad as well. )

Example
http://www.triplett.com/products/fox-and-hound-series/detail/10-fox-and-hound-series/flypage/58-the-fox-jr-a-hound-jr-kit-compact-wire-a-cable-tracing-kit?sef=hcfp

Got to have Pink noise?  build one of these, put it in a little tiny box, run 6 in to a XLR plug.
http://www.vellemanusa.com/support/downloads/?code=K4301

Got to have it in a XLR plug?  Buy a talking greeting card repackage the components (one chip and one miniature coin battery)
I tried it. It works, the sound quality is BAD.

Got to have it on a XLR plug.  Get one of these and some RTV  http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-4GB-Recording-Pen-USB-Flash-Memory-Mp3-Pen-Voice-Recorder-Mp3-Player-USB-Pen-/150921067804?pt=Voice_Recorders&hash=item232398bd1c

None of those solutions meet the requirements Tom is asking for. I understand why he wants the small form factor, and I agree it would be a great device. Whether it is feasible or not remains to be seen. What he wants is something like THIS (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68609-REG/Shure_A15TG_A15TG_Tone_Generator.html) but with wide band noise rather than a 700Hz tone, and the ability to drive line level as well as mic level.

An iPod Shuffle (http://www.walmart.com/ip/15075127?adid=22222222227010714298&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=14100970990&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem) with its left channel only going to a micro transformer inside a MXLR might be a good stopgap measure.

Mac
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 12, 2012, 09:45:23 PM
None of those solutions meet the requirements Tom is asking for. I understand why he wants the small form factor, and I agree it would be a great device. Whether it is feasible or not remains to be seen. What he wants is something like THIS (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68609-REG/Shure_A15TG_A15TG_Tone_Generator.html) but with wide band noise rather than a 700Hz tone, and the ability to drive line level as well as mic level.

An iPod Shuffle (http://www.walmart.com/ip/15075127?adid=22222222227010714298&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=14100970990&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem) with its left channel only going to a micro transformer inside a MXLR might be a good stopgap measure.

Mac

Thanks for getting it, Mac.

The Shure tone generator has some features that would be also be useful for the pink noise generator that the OP and I have in mind:

tolerates phantom power

on-off

recessed switch(s)

I think there may be a conflict between pink noise and battery power, otherwise why wouldn't this have been designed and brought to market already ?

Perhaps the crest-factor / duty cycle of pink noise at signiifcant (line) level (+4)requires more than a small battery can provide without needing a charge too often ? My Minirator Pro uses 3 AA batteries but also has an LCD screen. So that's no guide.

There's also a safety issue. If the generator outputs whatever level it is set to when you power it up, you could inadvertantly plug it into a powered speaker and "tear the roof off the mothersucker" (SPL) and/or damage drivers before you can react and unplug it or reach the gain switch. So an auto ramp-up in level function would be very cool. But up goes the cost and the required real estate, as well.

..... just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 12, 2012, 10:13:56 PM
I mentioned crest factor already but yes, a high crest factor requires more battery (voltage not power).

I use a nice SMD class d power IC (drives a speaker directly). It is about the size of a hungry wood tick and has a differential output so in theory one 1.5V battery could put out effectively 3V p-p, so in theory that would support +6dB crest factor to 0 dBu or so. SInce it is PWM it is also efficient so easy on battery life. Unless you are doing precision measurement you can probably relax on the need for a high crest factor (let momentary peaks clip, just don't tell anybody).

I'd prefer 2 AA cells to support even stronger level with good battery life. There are small bug micros that will run down well below 3V

Mac's Ipod whatever is getting closer, but why use only one output? Have the stereo outputs deliver the + and - polarity for a differential mono (balanced?) output. If the whole thing is battery powered and floating, just don't tell anybody that it isn't transformer balanced. Save your transformer for something grounded to something else, or grounded to anything at all. 

JR

PS: I bet I could sell ten or twenty of these...  8)
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Frank DeWitt on October 12, 2012, 10:55:21 PM
None of those solutions meet the requirements Tom is asking for.
Mac

Understood.  But it appears that nothing does.  So, lets look at another work around.  A Goldline GLPN needs 12 volts DC phantom power so get a XLR to XLR barrel, 2 resistors and two capacitors and an A23 12 volt battery.  Put it together and you have a XLR output no wires round form factor pink noise generator that doesn't need Phantom power.

Want to make it a bit smaller?  Gut the GLPN, and put the guts it in the barrel.  Want it smaller yet, with a switch?  Build the case out of this stuff. http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/accessories/modules/

You could even get fancy and put in two switches, one for power and one for level

Or use the stereo output from a MP3 player as has been suggested.  The one shaped like a pen has the 1/8 stereo jack on the end.  It is just begging to have that end grafted onto a XLR with the stereo output going to pin 2 and 3

Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: gordonmcgregor on October 14, 2012, 06:53:54 PM

Take a RAT sender a Rational Accoustic noise stick tape the 2 together plug in Y cable and leave attached use the switch on the sender to turn it on and off, ugly but works, and you can still use the sender to find the dead bastard cable at the top of the array. G
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 14, 2012, 09:03:56 PM
Take a RAT sender a Rational Accoustic noise stick tape the 2 together plug in Y cable and leave attached use the switch on the sender to turn it on and off, ugly but works, and you can still use the sender to find the dead bastard cable at the top of the array. G

Think about it ......... you sure you want to feed 12VDC to the input of your self-powered speaker or DSP ?
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Jordan Wolf on October 14, 2012, 10:03:18 PM
Think about it ......... you sure you want to feed 12VDC to the input of your self-powered speaker or DSP ?
Tom,

A valid concern to be sure, but one easily remedied by lifting Pin 1 on the other male XLR connector.  For such a compact-looking solution to the OP's problem, I'd think the testing rig could stay together so as not to be mixed up with "normal" wye cables, etc.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Tom Young on October 15, 2012, 09:30:16 AM
Tom,

A valid concern to be sure, but one easily remedied by lifting Pin 1 on the other male XLR connector.  For such a compact-looking solution to the OP's problem, I'd think the testing rig could stay together so as not to be mixed up with "normal" wye cables, etc.

The world I work in is periodically visited by Mr. Murphy who will see to it that either I (late at night, after a 12-16 hour day) or my helper will grab the wrong Y-cable. Or we'll forget that we need all 3 components. Or someone else needs (or failed to return) the sender. Or all of them.

This endless bantering is, in reality, a moot point for me as I have a MR-Pro generator, which I love.

In response to the OP plus my own needs (for something more compact and robust) I have looked high and wide for a battery powered, tubular, self-contained pocket PNG and (so far) it looks like none are available.

I will leave it to the OP as to whether he wishes to entertain any of the offered alternatives.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: kristianjohnsen on October 15, 2012, 09:39:17 AM
The world I work in is periodically visited by Mr. Murphy who will see to it that either I (late at night, after a 12-16 hour day) or my helper will grab the wrong Y-cable. Or we'll forget that we need all 3 components. Or someone else needs (or failed to return) the sender. Or all of them.

This endless bantering is, in reality, a moot point for me as I have a MR-Pro generator, which I love.

In response to the OP plus my own needs (for something more compact and robust) I have looked high and wide for a battery powered, tubular, self-contained pocket PNG and (so far) it looks like none are available.

I will leave it to the OP as to whether he wishes to entertain any of the offered alternatives.

I have a couple of "specials" (like those darn Powercon blue->grey barrels that seem to have a mind of their own).

In my world, those types of things get "shrinkwrapped" to whatever connector/cable they need to be connected to.  If anyone is tired enough to inadvertently start peeling off the shrinkwrap and disassebling the components I'd see them unfit to be flying a PA.
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: GenePink on October 16, 2012, 01:09:29 AM
Awwwww, the poor, maligned, misunderstood, and all but forgotten;  "Programmable Uni-junction Transistor".


Over the decades I have doodled with a circuit design to make a handy battery powered pocket tester. The premise was to make a free running oscillator, where the frequency of the oscillator would vary based on termination impedance.

Ideally it would provide recognizable frequency discrimination between 0-2-4-8 ohms, all the way up to 600 ohm-2k-10k-higher. Obviously a nonlinear scale.

The oscillator would make enough output to actually be audible (while not very loud) when connected to a speaker, while not so loud, that it would cream a mic input.

I planned to use a square wave, or some variant waveform, so even a LF pitch, could have MF and HF output to exercise all loudspeaker drivers.



John, or any else interested in building your own shit along these lines, this may be of interest:

http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/UJT/UJT_Page.html

Adjust component values to taste. Not quite an ergonomically pleasing result, as lower Z driver loads will result in higher pitched squeals. Meaning a 20K ohm amp input load would sound like a fat guy home brew beer fart, but still usable as a test source. Since for amp input "yes-no" testing you are not likely to give a shit about the exact input Z, a 1K or whatever resistor shunting the output to ground on this circuit will prevent the beer fart sound and turn it into a low tone. The sawtooth cap discharge pulse train is loaded with harmonics, and the circuit is sure simple enough to build and works well off of a 9V battery. Good enough for a "yes-no" test if the driver in question is right in front of you, although flown in a quiet arena you can still hear them, you just can't really tell which exact driver it is, just that it squalls. 

It'd probably run just fine off of an itty bitty little A-23 12V cell with a 47uF cap in parallel, to stiffen up the supply, if you want to try to make it tiny enough to try to cram it all into an XLR shell. Instead of fucking with all that, for this sort of thing, I usually just go with a male xlr connector and a few inches of Belden 8412 permanently connected to a 1X2X2" project box. Not slick looking, but I'm not trying to impress anyone with style, I just want it to work when I need it. And it fits in your pocket or ties to a belt loop.

My first phase popper was based on something like this and toward the end of building it, I realized that by switching in a much smaller capacitor to buzz at about 30Hz, it was also now a troubleshooting device. I have adapters for EP6, EP8, and later on, Neutrik 4 and 8 to check all the bins at loadout on the way to the truck. Just ran all the drivers at the same time per the adapter, put my ear close and listened to then one at a time: "Heeeee, Heeeee, Bsssss, Tzzzzz, Tzzzzz" (12", 12", 2", tweet, tweet). Yeah, good, load it out. It has one rotary switch for power and output attenuation, marked "Off, -30dB, -10dB, +4dB, SPKR". And the 0.3Hz or 30hz toggle switch for phase popping, per the original plan.

Anyway, food for thought.

Gene Pink
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 16, 2012, 08:35:18 AM
Pink... Wouldn't a programmable uni-junction transistor be a PUJT? and if it's a uni-junction why does it have two bases..? :-)

I remember those from back when,  but never used one in a design.   

I hope you are doing good, it's been a while.

JR
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Geoff Doane on October 16, 2012, 08:44:54 AM
I use an original MR1 Minirator for tests like this.  I think it meets all the criteria except for being really small.  The LCD is also a failure point if you're not careful with it.  I think it cost about $200, ten or so years ago.  The original didn't connect pin 1 to anything, and since it's in a plastic case (isolated from the outside world), phantom power doesn't bother it, and it drives balanced inputs without a problem.

Unfortunately, the replacement doesn't have the built-in, swing-out male XLR, so you'll need a short cable, or you could "permanently" fasten a barrel adapter to its output XLR.

GTD
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: GenePink on October 16, 2012, 10:46:28 PM
Pink... Wouldn't a programmable uni-junction transistor be a PUJT? and if it's a uni-junction why does it have two bases..? :-)

I remember those from back when,  but never used one in a design.   

I hope you are doing good, it's been a while.

JR

"two bases?" Must be a ground rule double. Umpire said "take your base" so I did. Got stopped at the gate, they were pissed, had to go put it back. They should be more clear on these things.

I would guess a unijunction because it doesn't have a collector. I think the programmable idea came from that they were trying to come up with a variable threshold diac to drive triacs and such, and if you check out the link I posted, they call it a "UJT Transistor", aptly named by the Department Of Redundancy Department.

I still get on here and lurk every now and then, just don't really have the time these days. Speaking of those unheard from in awhile, whatever happened to Andy Peters?

PS: I'm a "newbie" 'round here?

Gene
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 17, 2012, 09:12:54 AM
I see Andy post on another forum from time to time but not as active as he was here, back in the day.

I'll PM you his email.

JR
Title: Re: battery powered (pink) noise stick?
Post by: Martyn ferrit Rowe on October 17, 2012, 11:51:22 AM
Hey Guys,
you could build this into a small bud-box powered from a 9v battery.
Either a captive cable or a turn-around xlr extension

http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?id=350540

cheers
ferrit