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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Steve Litcher on June 19, 2021, 04:57:09 PM
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A good friend of mine has a band, and they're running an X32 Rack with a S16 stage box. Having worked with the X32R/M32/X32 platform for a few years, I thought I could help troubleshoot his tech issues, but it's proving difficult. Adding a degree of difficulty is that he lives 2000+ miles from me (and 2 time zones away), so we're trying to sort this out via phone calls and whatnot.
The problem: the outputs from his S16 (feeding 5 IEM units) don't behave/respond/do anything as expected. Mutes don't work, faders don't change anything, and the wrong mixes/channels are in the wrong outputs. It's as if the system is completely ignoring any direction that he's provided.
The config:
- X32Rack connected to S16 via AES50-A port (A to A); good cable (swapped cables while troubleshooting, no improvement)
- X32Rack is on current firmware
- AES50 sync appears happy - clock and status show green/good
- General routing/output config (desired) is:
X32 physical OUT 1 - 6 = empty (not used)
X32 physical OUT 7 & 8 = Main L/R (as default)
S16 physical OUT 1 - 8 = IEM mixes (1/2 = stereo, 3 = mono, 4 = mono, 5 = mono, 6 = mono, 7&8 = not used)
X32 Routing configs
Analog Out tab: Output 1 - 6 = routed to MixBus 1 - 6
Output 7 = Main L
Output 8 = Main R
Output 9 - 16 = routed to Mixbus 9 -16
AES50 A tab: Outputs 1-8 = Local 1-8
Outputs 9-16 = Out 9-16 (he's also tried "Out 1-8", "Local 9-16", "AES50 A1-8" and "AES50 A9-16"
Bus 9-16 Tab/channels: Pick Point is "Pre"; no inserts in place, no links, no DCAs assigned, no mute groups assigned
(Have tried different pick points ("Post") as well; no change in behavior)
Faders for 9-14 are at unity
Inputs are routed/mixed to the appropriate Bus channels
Setup > Global tab - Nothing is "on" save for "L/R Mono" Panning mode
S16 - he has held down the CONFIG button and tried the "1-8" and "9-16" settings; no change in behavior.
The net result: he hears his L/R FOH mix just fine, via the X32. Does everything it should be doing, behaves 100% as normal. The IEM mix buses have a mind of their own.... for example, one of the mix buses that shouldn't receive any click track has ONLY click track and the FOH mix (for some reason). If he mutes the click track source, it doesn't mute on that IEM channel. From his description, it sounds like everything hitting the IEM mix buses as if it's PFL/Solo.
I've asked him to send me a copy of his show file so that I can take a look at it, but as I no longer have any X32/M32 equipment in my possession, I'd be working 100% in an offline editor. I'm still waiting on the show file; just hoping to check-in with the hive and see if anything appears to be glaringly out of place. It's been 2-ish years since I've been on the X/M platform, so my memory is a bit faded. I've also only ever used the DL32 stage box with the M/X environment, so the S16 is a bit new on me.
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A good friend of mine has a band, and they're running an X32 Rack with a S16 stage box. Having worked with the X32R/M32/X32 platform for a few years, I thought I could help troubleshoot his tech issues, but it's proving difficult. Adding a degree of difficulty is that he lives 2000+ miles from me (and 2 time zones away), so we're trying to sort this out via phone calls and whatnot.
The problem: the outputs from his S16 (feeding 5 IEM units) don't behave/respond/do anything as expected. Mutes don't work, faders don't change anything, and the wrong mixes/channels are in the wrong outputs. It's as if the system is completely ignoring any direction that he's provided.
The config:
- X32Rack connected to S16 via AES50-A port (A to A); good cable (swapped cables while troubleshooting, no improvement)
- X32Rack is on current firmware
- AES50 sync appears happy - clock and status show green/good
- General routing/output config (desired) is:
X32 physical OUT 1 - 6 = empty (not used)
X32 physical OUT 7 & 8 = Main L/R (as default)
S16 physical OUT 1 - 8 = IEM mixes (1/2 = stereo, 3 = mono, 4 = mono, 5 = mono, 6 = mono, 7&8 = not used)
X32 Routing configs
Analog Out tab: Output 1 - 6 = routed to MixBus 1 - 6
Output 7 = Main L
Output 8 = Main R
Output 9 - 16 = routed to Mixbus 9 -16
AES50 A tab: Outputs 1-8 = Local 1-8
Outputs 9-16 = Out 9-16 (he's also tried "Out 1-8", "Local 9-16", "AES50 A1-8" and "AES50 A9-16"
Bus 9-16 Tab/channels: Pick Point is "Pre"; no inserts in place, no links, no DCAs assigned, no mute groups assigned
(Have tried different pick points ("Post") as well; no change in behavior)
Faders for 9-14 are at unity
Inputs are routed/mixed to the appropriate Bus channels
Setup > Global tab - Nothing is "on" save for "L/R Mono" Panning mode
S16 - he has held down the CONFIG button and tried the "1-8" and "9-16" settings; no change in behavior.
The net result: he hears his L/R FOH mix just fine, via the X32. Does everything it should be doing, behaves 100% as normal. The IEM mix buses have a mind of their own.... for example, one of the mix buses that shouldn't receive any click track has ONLY click track and the FOH mix (for some reason). If he mutes the click track source, it doesn't mute on that IEM channel. From his description, it sounds like everything hitting the IEM mix buses as if it's PFL/Solo.
I've asked him to send me a copy of his show file so that I can take a look at it, but as I no longer have any X32/M32 equipment in my possession, I'd be working 100% in an offline editor. I'm still waiting on the show file; just hoping to check-in with the hive and see if anything appears to be glaringly out of place. It's been 2-ish years since I've been on the X/M platform, so my memory is a bit faded. I've also only ever used the DL32 stage box with the M/X environment, so the S16 is a bit new on me.
Has the S16 been configured to put out the correct outputs? Push the config Button in and keep it in and turn the gain knob to the left. If you keep turning it the 1-8 light will show. This means it's putting out 1-8 AES50 channels. Turn it a little to the right and +8 light will come on and the S16 will be putting out AES50 channels 9-16. Keep going to the right and you'll get +16 which is AES50 channels 17-24. Sounds like your getting some post fader sends in the mix so it may be configured wrong or the Desks Routing Out 1-16 is configured wrong and he is pulling the wrong channels down the AES50 channels the S16 is putting out.
Assign what you want to the Routing Out 1-16 number locations. Then assign those numbers down the AES50 channels you want to use. Last setup the S16 to put out what AES50 channels you want it to put out it's XLRs (1-8, 9-16 etc)
Douglas R. Allen
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AES50 A tab: Outputs 1-8 = Local 1-8
Outputs 9-16 = Out 9-16 (he's also tried "Out 1-8", "Local 9-16", "AES50 A1-8" and "AES50 A9-16"
Assuming the S16 is set to 1-8, AES50 A 9-16 don't go anywhere, so how they're set doesn't matter.
AES50 A 1-8 should be set to Out 1-8 and under Out 1-16 you want 1-6 set to the IEM buses.
Now they're set to whatever is routed to Local, under User Out. Guessing direct outs or something. Make sure everything is Off in User Out.
The IEM mix buses have a mind of their own.... for example, one of the mix buses that shouldn't receive any click track has ONLY click track and the FOH mix (for some reason). If he mutes the click track source, it doesn't mute on that IEM channel. From his description, it sounds like everything hitting the IEM mix buses as if it's PFL/Solo.
Do the buses behave as expected when they solo them in phones?
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Do the buses behave as expected when they solo them in phones?
I don't believe so, which leads me to believe he's got something routed incorrectly with his sends..... we weren't able to chat last night but I'll reach out to him today. Thanks for the info Dan and Douglas!
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{...} I've asked him to send me a copy of his show file so that I can take a look at it, {...}
If you can get this and share it with us it would make troubleshooting a lot easier! :)
-Russ
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All sorts of things it could be, and no real point guessing.
Just needs a scene file. Probably easy to debug in the scene file, even if just using X32-edit.
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Is the S16 on the latest firmware to start? Next is to open a blank scene and try creating a mix. In 9.5 out of 10 cases it is a routing issue. With the latest firmware and the true open format routing structure, things have become a little more complicated when a routing issue comes up.
For instance: If the channel of interest is set to a different source, and that source is patched to a different input in the routing tabs, you will have a hell of a time finding it out if you only look at the output routing tabs. With AES 50 being in the mix, you can go off the charts in the complexity of source vs patch options. This is why you want to start with a ZERO scene. You can initialize the board to create a ZERO scene if desired.
I have a video I made a while back showing why doing teh 1:1 is the best option, but also requires that you do it a certain way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2FB5FYWf9M
& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udLWQCESd6U
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Also make sure that the S16 firmware is up to date. The latest version is 2.5.
Secondly, if you obtain a show/scene file and are allowed and willing to share it here I don't mind taking a look at it here and double check things.
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Awesome. Thanks again everyone. Both he and I had full weekends, so I'll share this info with him and will update. Greatly appreciate the assistance and ideas.
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Just because they are 2000 miles away doesn't mean you can't get in and look at it. If he's got a computer connected to the system, you can remote into that computer and then check the settings, live and in person. Obviously you won't hear what's happening directly, but you can work together to get it figured out.
Or, get the scene file and share it, as others stated. You don't need any hardware to look at and edit the file and send it back.
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A little late to the party, but... I had two S16 boxes that had erratic failures and would not respond to gain settings correctly, had channel mix up's, etc.
It turned out to be the power supplies had failed. After replacing the power supplies with new ones from Behringer, they have been good for the last 4 years.
The power supplies were pretty easy to install although there are two versions with different pin outs. My S16's were an early version and it took some time to correctly map the new supplies to the old pins.