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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Jim Layton on August 13, 2022, 03:51:34 PM

Title: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Jim Layton on August 13, 2022, 03:51:34 PM
I have been mixing on an SQ at a church where, in addition to the live band, multiple extra instruments are being sent to the SQ from a laptop on stage.  I have my personal SQ6 with the AR2412 and AR85 stage boxes for my live sound events. I saw Audinate makes a Dante to AES adapter. If my Sq has a Dante card, would I be able to use my existing non-Dante stage boxes with this type of adapter? It would seem like a Yes but none of the examples given by vendors or Audinate mentioned stage boxes.

I believe you need PoE to run the adapter. Do Dante cards provide power or do you need some kind of a hub to provide it?

I tried to find these answers online but I guess they are so basic in Dante World that no one writes much about it. Most of the topics are on much more complex networking.


 





Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Jeremy Young on August 13, 2022, 06:25:21 PM
AES is only a 2-channel protocol, so the Audinate AVIO AES adapter allows you to take two digital channels from AES and convert them to dante to be virtually patched to say, two inputs on your SQ fitted with a dante card.   The AES adapter can also output 2 channels.   It wonít work with an entire stagebox like you have in mind.  However, two SQ mixers both with dante cards could send multiple channels between one another if you wanted to use one mixer solely as a stagebox. 

POE wonít come from any dante card Iíve seen, but itís typically sourced from a POE injector (goes between two network cables with a power cable) or from a POE network switch. 

I used a POE network switch in the back of my mixer rack as a home run for all my dante streams.  I use the AES AVIO to send two channels into a speaker processor from my mixer, and take two channels from a media player into my mixer.  I have a few other AVIO adapters for other tasks but theyíre all 2-channel devices whereas both my mixers have 64x64 dante cards.  Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Jim Layton on August 13, 2022, 07:01:00 PM
Thanks Jeremy,
That helps. After reading and watching videos I see why the stage box has to be a true "Dante enabled" device to work.
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 13, 2022, 08:16:56 PM
Curious, where were you looking if it needed PoE?  In the basic slick in says "power over Ethernet support" in the specifications it also says 802.3AF powered.  802.3AF being the standard for PoE.


Often we get caught Googling and in deep rabbit holes when a trip to the vendor page and specifications has the reliable info we need.  Articles in forums such as this have a short half life as software is released and standards revised.


Good luck....Scott
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Jim Layton on August 14, 2022, 03:34:24 PM
Curious, where were you looking if it needed PoE?  In the basic slick in says "power over Ethernet support" in the specifications it also says 802.3AF powered.  802.3AF being the standard for PoE.


Often we get caught Googling and in deep rabbit holes when a trip to the vendor page and specifications has the reliable info we need.  Articles in forums such as this have a short half life as software is released and standards revised.


Good luck....Scott

I was deep in the hole, for sure. The idea came from someone describing their experience with an Audinate AES adapter. He said something about it needs PoE to run.
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Jeremy Young on August 14, 2022, 03:46:49 PM
The Audinate AVIO devices all require a power source.  The USB version can get its power from the USB bus or POE, but the rest all require POE to operate.  From what I've read on the facebook Dante group, some people have experienced audio dropouts with the USB version running on USB bus power if the laptop connected has some form of energy saving mode that cuts power out even for a moment; so heeding that warning I've only ever powered mine from a POE source and I've never had any issues.  They're handy little devices if you just need to say, patch a line-level DJ into your PA, or in the case of the AES ones to skip to AD and DA conversion steps. 

A different option to you, would be to look at a Dante stage box like the Yamaha Tio1608D to feed multiple inputs to your desk over Dante, but you'd need to run an iPad or Laptop with the Yamaha software to control the head amp gain (not natively through your mixer unfortunately).  This of course means investing in more stage boxes which was not your goal. 
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Scott Helmke on August 14, 2022, 06:39:43 PM
Trying to tie the various threads together, I think what you're saying by "AES to Dante" adapter is something that will allow the use of a dSnake stage box with a Dante mixer.  Not sure how "AES" came into the picture, though.

But in general, I'm not aware of any company that makes an adapter for one multichannel stage box to another that's cheaper than just buying another stage box.
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Russell Ault on August 14, 2022, 11:00:34 PM
{...} Not sure how "AES" came into the picture, though. {...}

Has Uli so badly corrupted the terminology in our industry that "AES" (not even the slightly-more-appropriate "AES50") is now understood to mean any manufacturer-specific multichannel-digital-audio-over-Category-cable solution? I hope not.

-Russ
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Tim Verhoeven on August 16, 2022, 04:15:41 AM
I have been mixing on an SQ at a church where, in addition to the live band, multiple extra instruments are being sent to the SQ from a laptop on stage.  I have my personal SQ6 with the AR2412 and AR85 stage boxes for my live sound events. I saw Audinate makes a Dante to AES adapter. If my Sq has a Dante card, would I be able to use my existing non-Dante stage boxes with this type of adapter? It would seem like a Yes but none of the examples given by vendors or Audinate mentioned stage boxes.

Hi Jim,

I'm still trying to understand exactly what you want to do here. Do you want to link both SQ's together (the one from church and yours)? Do you want to use your stageboxes on the church's SQ? If we can clarify what exactly you want to do, we can give you a better answer. Try stating the problem without adding potential solutions to it, it could be that Dante isn't even needed here for example.
Title: Re: Simple Dante question-can't find answer
Post by: Ed Hall on August 20, 2022, 10:05:03 PM
A different option to you, would be to look at a Dante stage box like the Yamaha Tio1608D to feed multiple inputs to your desk over Dante, but you'd need to run an iPad or Laptop with the Yamaha software to control the head amp gain (not natively through your mixer unfortunately).  This of course means investing in more stage boxes which was not your goal.

Because you're on an A&H board, this might be a good option. A&H DT168 (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DT168--allen-and-heath-dt168-dante-i-o-expander)  It is a Dante box that the SQ should be able to control natively.