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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: Steve Litcher on December 28, 2016, 03:22:24 PM
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I have 24 LED PARs that I currently have deployed in groups of 6 (4 tripods). I'm not super pleased with my current tripods (Monoprice; purchased as a trial) and am looking for options.
I don't need crank lifts or anything crazy. We have trussing that we use for bigger shows.
We're looking for portable tripods that are stable, and can raise to around 12-feet. If they can fit into a flight case (with fixtures attached), all the better. Those Monoprice t-bars are an odd size/length, and I can't find a flight-case for them anywhere... Don't really want to have custom ones built if I can avoid it.
What are you using? What have you used?
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My go-to stands for this type of application are the Global Truss ST-132s. I believe Ultimate Support also makes a stand that can reach 12ft. Why the ST-132s, which are clunky and heavy, for such a light-duty application when lighter and cheaper options exist? Simply because of how stable they are. The weight of the stand itself helps to prevent any accidental tip overs, especially when using them at their full height. When comparing to a 12 pound stand with a 24" leg span, the center of gravity is way too high with such a small base for me to be comfortable, even with just a half dozen LED Pars. I own a few Odyssey stands which are nice and lighter-duty, but I never take them over 8ft. Hope this helps!
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Thanks, Jeff. We already own the ST-132s, and use them with our trussing. But to use them to hang 20-Lbs of LED PARs for a bar gig is overkill and I can't justify loading them into the trailer...
Really hoping to find some good tripod t-bars that can fit into a fairly readily available road case.
12-ft is an extreme; most times we're 8-9 feet.
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The Ultimate TS99-BL goes pretty high (11'+ IIRC), has a wider span on the tripod legs than many, has a clutch for raising and lowering the load more safely, and has a leveling leg. I have 2 pair, which I also use for speaker stands. The 1.5" diameter tee bar is about 48" wide, but could be cut down easily (it is aluminum.). Going up full height is kinda shakey if you have much of a load.
That said, the Global Truss ST-132 crank lift is way more substantial, stable, expensive, and heavier. It comes with a square tubing tee bar, but a 2" round tee bar is also available. If the tripod needs to be out into the dance floor (for face light), I'd would feel much more comfortable with the ST-132. I own a pair of the ST-132 stands.
Edit: I see you have ST-132 stands.
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For a push up tri-pod stand I like the Odyssey LTP-2. Goes up about 12ft. It's a little heavier than some others...but that's why I like it.
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I've purchased quite a few lightweight stands in the past few years, and returned some of them.
This one is my favorite:
https://www.amazon.com/American-Lightstand-Inch-Tubing-Goes/dp/B0002DNUHU
It has great clamps, and holds very steady even at 12 ft. I do not use the angled supports, and the T-Bar comes off at every show. I place the prewired lights and T-Bar in a Keyboard bag for transport. I have 4 lights hanging below, and an ADJ Megabar across the top. The top pole is larger than a speaker cup so these are for lights only.
If you must have speaker cup sized poles, this one isn't bad.
https://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-LTP2-Tripod-Stand-T-Bar/dp/B0002DUWVM
It is taller even when collapsed, and a good bit heavier than the one above. I also don't use the angled supports, but the T-Bar tilts down about 1" on both tripods. It has good clamps and seems really heavy duty. I have 4 lightweight LED Pars and a small LED washlight mover from these.
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For what it's worth I have a few Odyssey LTP-2s and LTP8-PROs - both decent stands for the money. If you're going to do what Steve pictured above where you're indoors with the stands essentially barricaded behind the backline, you can certainly get away with these smaller stands just fine. The trouble starts when you use these stands outdoors or out in the open where they're subject to blowing wind and drunk party-goes (or just oblivious general public). That's when you really have to watch out for tipping hazards, which is where the ST-132s really work well.
As far as the top bar goes, you can generally source what you need or cut down an existing bar to the size you're looking for. Most of it is very standard pipe sizes and will fit with the T-connector usually included with the tripod (depending on model).
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Thanks for all of the suggestions, guys!
So... question... where can I find the T-cup adapters, preferably non-plastic ones? It seems like my best bet might be to keep my Monoprice tripods, which have 36" span legs and just fit a more "compliant" T-bar across the top. Then, I could put the T-bar inside of a standard flight case and be all set.
My biggest beef with the Monoprice stands is the T-bar part. All of the components "up top" are plastic, and the bars are an odd length. It would be great if I could fabricate my own T-bar using a solid, reliable, dependable T-cup on top.
Although... now that I re-read the thread, those stands from Steve G sound awfully tempting, especially since the bars fit in a keyboard case... hmm... :)
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You can use dual O-clamps (that fit 1.5" tubing), or you can look at hardware for drum set racks. The rack hardware will look more like a traditional tee fitting. Another source is "Kee Clamps", used to make guard rails and such in industrial settings.
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Another source is "Kee Clamps", used to make guard rails and such in industrial settings.
I've used those too, and while they do work, I haven't gotten mine to lock down tightly enough for my liking. Maybe I just haven't gotten the sizes of tubing and clamps matched right, but I prefer either the dual clamps or the gridlock product from The Light Source. Both give you all-metal solutions that seems to work well with a variety of different tubing diameters.
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IIRC, some of the industrial fittings are designed to fit pipe (nominal i.d. sizing), while others are designed to fit tubing (nominal o.d. sizing). 1.5" pipe is about 1.9", o.d., which is close to 2" tubing, but a (too) loose fit. A 50 mm clamp will work just fine on 1.5" pipe, FWIW.
Theater fly battens are very often 1.5" pipe. USA spec aluminum truss is usually 2" tubing. "Euro" truss is 50 mm o.d. I love standards, there are so many to choose from!
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K&M makes a top hat that can bolt to a bar to make a t-bar. It is steel.
Mike at Audiopile sold me mine.
I took Debbie's idea of a keyboard soft case and can nest a pair of t-bars with 4 flat pars on each. I went to a banjo center with a tape measure and looked at them all before finding the one I wanted.
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Awesome!
Thanks again, everyone! Tons of good ideas and options here. I'll explore, buy, and report back. Thanks!
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I have the same stands Steve has and love them. Outside of my ST-132 they are the sturdiest stand I own. I even use them for high speaker stands by flipping the top pole and inserting 2 ft 3/8 pole inside.
Cheaper at PSSL
http://www.pssl.com/American-DJ-12-Ft-Heavy-Duty-Light-Stand-w-X-Bar
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I have the same stands Steve has and love them. Outside of my ST-132 they are the sturdiest stand I own. I even use them for high speaker stands by flipping the top pole and inserting 2 ft 3/8 pole inside.
Cheaper at PSSL
http://www.pssl.com/American-DJ-12-Ft-Heavy-Duty-Light-Stand-w-X-Bar
Yes, that is my best stand and I'm considering getting 2 more to replace my 2 Odyssey stands. Can you look at the knobs on yours and confirm the actual brand? Mine say Accu-Stand.
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Quick update...
I purchased four of the LTS-2 stands from ADJ and four of the Gator 88-key "slim" keyboard cases and couldn't be any happier. The Gator cases hold the assembled T-bars with ease, and the LTS-2 is a great overall stand.
Thanks, everyone!!! I owe you all a virtual adult beverage (or three)!
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Quick update...
I purchased four of the LTS-2 stands from ADJ and four of the Gator 88-key "slim" keyboard cases and couldn't be any happier. The Gator cases hold the assembled T-bars with ease, and the LTS-2 is a great overall stand.
Thanks, everyone!!! I owe you all a virtual adult beverage (or three)!
This sounds cool. What lights do you have on the T-bars that fit in a keyboard case? I think my PAR LED fixtures are too large to do that but love the idea. Their dimensions are 11.5" x 8.5" x 12.0"
Thanks for the ideas
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I'm using a mix of lights... Blizzard Rock Box and the generic Chinese LED PAR lights (7x10 watt) from an earlier thread. They're nearly identical in overall dimensions and fit *perfectly* in the Slim88 cases.
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I'm using a mix of lights... Blizzard Rock Box and the generic Chinese LED PAR lights (7x10 watt) from an earlier thread. They're nearly identical in overall dimensions and fit *perfectly* in the Slim88 cases.
We now have six of the Blizzard Storm systems. I know it is a little out of scope for this discussion but the "wow" factor is very high with these. They are the finest wash lights, super compact just very pricey.
As always Mike Pyle has the best deal.
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Here's a fix for the odd-sized T-Bars: https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au/toolbox/electrotech/toolbox1204/resources/03workshop/05hand_tools/images/hacksaw.jpg
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Here's a fix for the odd-sized T-Bars: https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au/toolbox/electrotech/toolbox1204/resources/03workshop/05hand_tools/images/hacksaw.jpg (https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au/toolbox/electrotech/toolbox1204/resources/03workshop/05hand_tools/images/hacksaw.jpg)
Way to lazy for that - Portable band saw, this model is from the one use tool company (one job if you are lucky):
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I'm using a mix of lights... Blizzard Rock Box and the generic Chinese LED PAR lights (7x10 watt) from an earlier thread. They're nearly identical in overall dimensions and fit *perfectly* in the Slim88 cases.
This one? https://www.amazon.com/Gator-GK88SLIM-88-Note-Lightweight-Keyboard/dp/B000XFRMYY (https://www.amazon.com/Gator-GK88SLIM-88-Note-Lightweight-Keyboard/dp/B000XFRMYY)
The GK-88 SLIM Slim 88 note keyboard case interior dimensions are Interior Length: 53.5” Interior Width: 15.5” Interior Height: 5.5”
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We now have six of the Blizzard Storm systems. I know it is a little out of scope for this discussion but the "wow" factor is very high with these. They are the finest wash lights, super compact just very pricey.
As always Mike Pyle has the best deal.
Scott. Do you mean the Blizzard Weather system or the Weather EXA?
The t bar with the 8 little lights?
Thanks
LOU
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This one? https://www.amazon.com/Gator-GK88SLIM-88-Note-Lightweight-Keyboard/dp/B000XFRMYY (https://www.amazon.com/Gator-GK88SLIM-88-Note-Lightweight-Keyboard/dp/B000XFRMYY)
The GK-88 SLIM Slim 88 note keyboard case interior dimensions are Interior Length: 53.5” Interior Width: 15.5” Interior Height: 5.5”
Hi Graham,
Almost. The ones I purchased don't have wheels and are slightly longer. This should be the model:
https://www.amazon.com/Gator-Note-Keyboard-Gig-GKB-88/dp/B005OUK6NC/
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Yes, that is my best stand and I'm considering getting 2 more to replace my 2 Odyssey stands. Can you look at the knobs on yours and confirm the actual brand? Mine say Accu-Stand.
A little late but mine do say Accu-Stand
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I use the global truss T bar.
http://www.pssl.com/!RQA-qeFqdZoGNAErcHQVxA!/Global-Truss-GT-LB132-T-Bar-With-2-In-Round-Pipe?gclid=Cj0KEQiAnb3DBRCX2ZnSnMyO9dIBEiQAOcXYH0xROrlpsVMyJ7en2LQKcTnXfKOTKwk5KAfYUgt0_e4aAsKu8P8HAQ
I like this because its the same diameter as my global truss so i use all the same clamps.
It is quite a bit heavier than those cheap t bars, but still manageable. It will fit your 132's as well.
then I have crank stands from an old American dj durra truss system.
Something very similar to this
http://www.pssl.com/Global-Truss-ST-90-9-Ft-Light-Duty-Crank-Stand?gclid=Cj0KEQiAnb3DBRCX2ZnSnMyO9dIBEiQAOcXYH2FOO8y93xfC9RGBaX4v4zt1K0KjLSJHwekkKlsbCmUaAmOY8P8HAQ
I would just get the Global truss ST 90's and call it a day.
It can be a real pain to raise those T bars with out a crank once you get some weight on them. I would only get crank stands.
Here is even lighter duty.
http://www.pssl.com/On-Stage-SS8800B-Power-Crank-Up-Speaker-Stand
or this and throw the truss away
http://www.pssl.com/Odyssey-LTMTS1PRO-10-Ft-Lighting-Truss-System
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Here's my ADJ T-Bar with lights in the RoadRunner keyboard bag. The actual dimension of my lights is a little wider than the case, but it flexes enough for a good fit:
https://www.amazon.com/Road-Runner-RK5117-76-Key-Keyboard/dp/B003HZQR7K
Thanks Debbie!