Post by: Doolie on January 24, 2005, 02:49:58 AM
Today's agenda was to replace a mic cable for tonight's gig. Simple enough. It generally takes me 1-2 minutes to order one online, but since I needed it today and I was passing Sam Ash anyway, I decided to buy it there. Here's how I think the transaction should have gone:
Step one) Enter store
Step two) Select mic cable from display rack which is located in easy-to-find and well-marked area.
Step three) check out
Assuming there's no line for the cashier, the entire procedure shouldn't take more than five minutes.
Here's what happens in "Sam Ash world."
Step one) Enter store
Step two) Wander into potential "mic cable section" of store.
Step three) Make eye contact with Sam Ash employees who are happily ignoring the only customer in their department.
Step four) Browse section looking for mic cables with no success.
Step five) Tell employee who finally deigns to offer help that I need a mic cable... with an on/off switch.
Step six) Try to explain to uncomprehending employee what "mic cable with on/off switch" means.
Step seven) Follow employee to another department where mic cables are located.
Step eight) Wait for said employee to give you mic cable.
Step nine) Ask said employee, who is seemingly just hanging around, for mic cable.
Step ten) Listen to employee explain that it's not his department.
Step eleven) Employee calls for assistance.
Step twelve) Another Sam Ash employee shows up and locates mic cable.
Step thirteen) Sam Ash employee locates "grabber" tool and takes cable down from hook on wall near ceiling.
Step fourteen) Original Sam Ash employee is wowed by concept of switch on cable and takes a moment to "check it out."
Step fifteen) Employees discuss who should get the credit for the sale. (They're paid on comission.)
Step sixteen) Employee enters item into computer.
Step seventeen) Employee manually fills out paper slip listing items purchased
Step eighteen) Employee instructs me to take said paper and the mic cable to the cashier.
Step nineteen) Cashier rings up sale on old-fashioned credit card unit, manually taking imprint of credit card.
Step twenty) Security guard -- who has watched checkout from about three feet away -- checks receipt to verify payment.
Step twenty one) Finally leave store, further commited to shopping elsewhere in the future.
Post by: Brian Adams on January 24, 2005, 04:53:54 AM
...I had no idea that real people actually used those mic cables with switched on them.
Post by: Bennett Prescott on January 24, 2005, 11:20:43 AM
| B. Adams wrote on Mon, 24 January 2005 04:53 |
...I had no idea that real people actually used those mic cables with switched on them. |
Ha ha ha! My thoughts exactly.
Post by: Chris Davis on January 24, 2005, 03:46:43 PM
I always found them to be rather marketing-centric with their employees...leaving them to view live audio principles as stumbling blocks, or (to pinpoint the philosophy) a "noble" achievement but just not on "company time".
Chris
Post by: Dan Whitehead on January 24, 2005, 04:26:32 PM
Post by: Mike Chapin on January 24, 2005, 09:04:50 PM
Post by: Bill Gruber on January 26, 2005, 07:05:25 PM
-Sax
Post by: Pete Sams on January 26, 2005, 08:42:40 PM
GC and Sam Ash (I worked at GC) are sales driven. Thier concept of training is WAY off. Info on new product trickles in while bread and butter basics just aren't covered. You'd be suprised by all the mis-information within the company. Really if they trained the pro audio guys the way they should they'd have to pay them more (you know they won't do that!).
p
Post by: Scott Hibbard on January 26, 2005, 11:03:31 PM
FUNNY!
ScottH
Post by: Marc Schwartz on January 27, 2005, 08:57:33 AM
Your story exemplifies why I avoid music stores. I have some sympathy for the poor souls who must labor in these stores, but not enough to tolerate the stupidity of "sales kids" when it costs me time, which is my most precious commodity. There are just too many other good sources for these same products online and mail order. I can find out the information that I need on the internet or from a catalog, place my order, and never have to leave my desk. OTOH, when an emergency comes up, and I need something in a hurry on show day, I will send a "runner" to a local music store to go and get it, but only after talking to the store owner or someone else who knows me personally on the phone, and making sure they have it ready for pick-up when my "runner" gets there. It has taken me years to properly train the local music stores how to deal with a pro audio company. After a while, they finally caught on to the fact that I wasn't going to spend my money with them unless they can provide me with good service.
-Marc
Post by: Tom Reid on January 27, 2005, 10:25:16 AM
In order to even stand on the sales floor, I was required a minimum of 3 weeks audio basics. My trainers were *gasp* manufacturer reps. Having electronics courses from the military made traing tons easier, but some of those courses were tough. Not everyone who started finished the courses, and as a result they were not invited to "hover" in the stores.
My relationship with Pacific Stereo ended when they were bought out by CBS. At that point the sales guys were trained by used car salsemen.
The same thing is happening today, on a larger scale. Of course, everyone should be familiar with my rants on that subject ...
Post by: Matt Loretitsch on January 27, 2005, 05:43:07 PM
Of course it took me an hour to get that 1000 dollar quote. What a waste of time. At least I gave a few people my card if they ever wanted some sound stuff done (oddly enough my cards went to EMPLOYEES of sam ash).
Oh...and I love having Samson shoved down my throat. F*** off
Feel the love,
-Matt
Post by: Doolie on January 27, 2005, 06:30:17 PM
Post by: Doolie on January 27, 2005, 06:38:45 PM
Post by: Stephen Thorpe on March 27, 2005, 01:18:21 PM
Post by: John LeVasseur on March 29, 2005, 03:27:25 AM
Hi all,
The problem doesn't lie with Ash, their employees or its protocols. It has to do with a lack of willingness to help yourself. You may spend twenty minutes online searching a website for what you need, but go into a store and you feel you should be serviced by these folks in seconds. That's not what Ash is about. For Ash it's all about their turn-over of product, at the expense of everything else. Yes, it seems counter-productive. It is, very much so, and they [Ash and GC] will never understand that since they have never done business this way nor have they needed to. You expect service, well ... you are looking for blueberries on a desert island.
Guess what, it isn't gonna happen. Firstly, it takes years to just properly understand how audio works. To understand every product sold in a store, with this many products, you first have to be a very experienced person in the audio biz, or just a very curious type of person. It would be impossible for Ash to hire (or keep) people of that caliber. I know first hand. I have worked on the sales floor for both Ash and GC, and for Ash I also worked in the main office as a buyer/merchandiser (my office was across the hall from Jerry & Paul Ash, Richard's dad & uncle). My experience both on the sales floor and in the office was a frustrating one, on many levels. On the floor, I was amazed at the crap slung by most of my fellow salesmen ... amazed! This was mostly out desperation on their part to keep these lame-ass jobs. And what I heard from management regarding the treatment of the staff was nothing short of appalling. This all my opinion, by the way, from my own experience. I may not be objective here and I could be wrong. I was actually treated well, but I'm very knowledgable and experienced in pro-audio, so that went a long way with these guys.
Most guys like me (I've been a live soundguy for 25 years) will not take a job at Ash or GC because we can make much more money doing the real work, especially at that experience level. I went into retail to try something else for change of pace, got totally disgusted, and returned to my first love ... mixing and designing.
Basically, know what you want, take the time and search on your own. Only get a sales associate involved when you can pull them over and point to what you want him to get for you. Speaking is not necessary, and should be avoided. A grunt from you while pointing may actually elicit a fear response and make the sales associate move a little quicker. Language skills are useless and most often troublesome and may confuse the sales associate. Any overly technical discussion, (like the reasons for having a switch on a cable or what a switch does or what a cable is) may cause damage to the sales associate or at least confusion, which will then cause a sales associate to call another over to clarify or interpret for the first. I jest...
In all fairness, most of these guys are just miserable. These are not interesting jobs, no matter how much effort they put into it. And the management can care less about making them feel even the slightest bit important, unless they are in the top five gross'ers in the chain. They are told often they are expendable, not important, and pressured constantly with the threat of unemployment. You cannot expect much from people in that predicament. In my 30 years of work experience, I have never seen employees treated as badly as I have seen in the MI industry. It is a demoralizing experience, worsened by extreme pressure to perform without adequate assistance or any guidance or real training in anything other then data processing and security. I once heard a top-executive of one these companies, angry about a few missing price tags, say in a private top-level meeting in the president's office, "Our staff are no more significant to me than the shit I flush down my toilet. I could fire them all tomorrow and replace them the next day. Their all nothing more than shit to me. Every one of them. Fuck'em all". This is what I heard with my own ears. While this a short statement made in anger and presented here possibly out of context, it does express a common feeling by these executives and typifies what percolates down to these employees in the form of undue pressure and sometimes actual statements meant to motivate. (If you've ever seen the movie GlenGary-GlenRoss, you get the picture). Take that into consideration when you wonder why these sales guys seem so ... sub-human. Their not stupid, their just beat-up.
So, don't bother sales associates. Use you own eyes and take the time to look around for what you need. If you need help, go find a manager and ask him. They get paid more and actually have some pecuniary interest. Tell them their staff is a waste of time, and since they generally agree with that assessment, they will take care of you or at least refer you to the one guy who actually knows his stuff and isn't miserable.
Otherwise, deal with Sweetwater. They deserve the turn.
John LeVasseur
Post by: jack owen on March 29, 2005, 04:35:14 PM
So anyway, my assistant just got back from the Guitar Center. I gave him a written detailed description of 2 items that I needed.
I asked for a "Y" cable and the "EXPERT PRO SALESMAN" gave him a send and receive cable! I also asked for electric guitar strings and the "EXPERT GUITAR SALESMAN" with the giant nose ring gave him nylon strings! This is why I shop online. AMS, Parts Express, Musicians Friend, never a problem or attitude.
"Miss the good old days!"
stl jack
Post by: Andy Peters on March 29, 2005, 04:39:42 PM
| stl jack wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 14:35 |
Anyone remember the Capitol Theater in Passaic, N.J.? |
Man, I saw sooo many great shows there. I remember seeing R.E.M. there, second row, after Reckoning came out; it was an MTV "Rock Influences" show so the "support" acts were short sets by John Sebastian, a couple of members of The Band (I think everyone but Robbie Robertson, actually), and others. I also saw R.E.M. there with the dB's (after Stamey quit) as the opener.
The location is now an AutoZone, I think. Shame.
-a
Post by: jack owen on March 29, 2005, 04:56:37 PM
stl jack
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 29, 2005, 05:14:07 PM
I remember being in Ash once just looking around and they could spot the wannabee's coming from a block away... kids who would drive all the way down from NH to get a deal in the big city and ended up paying more than they would of at the half dozen stores they drove past getting there .
Ah the good old days...
JR
Post by: jack owen on March 29, 2005, 06:03:12 PM
stl jack
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 29, 2005, 07:06:29 PM
| stl jack wrote on Tue, 29 March 2005 17:03 |
You just had to figure out how to play there game. You first went to Manny's and got a price, then you went to Ash, then back to Manny's for a better price and back and forth. Sometimes it took awhile but they both tried hard not to lose a sale. My favorite store on the same side of the street near Alex was simply called "We Buy And Sell Guitars". Basically a guitar pawn shop. stl jack |
Yes, but you didn't have to drive hundreds of miles to play that game. There were several dealers in NE back in those days that were paying the same wholesale for product as Ash or Manny's who would deal. It just wasn't as good of a story. The skill of selling is having the customer believe he's getting a deal even when he isn't.
I believe the folks on 48th street were still doing OK for themselves.
JR
Post by: Bob Lee (QSC) on March 30, 2005, 11:55:36 AM
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 30, 2005, 12:32:24 PM
| Bob Lee (QSC) wrote on Wed, 30 March 2005 10:55 |
NH … New Hampshire or N'Haven? |
The two I was talking about looked like they just walked out of a Norman Rockwell painting and drove down from either New Hampshire or Vermont.... NH was easier to abbreviate. They drove past Jeff's store in Hartford, maybe another serious dealer in New Haven on their way to the "Big City".... I don't know that Boston had their price act very together back in those days but once you add in the cost of gas and value of drive time, even the Daddy's chain up there if not even closer to their homes wasn't that bad of a deal.
JR
Post by: ordmen on March 30, 2005, 02:07:35 PM
That's Alex Axe your thinking of.
Mike
Post by: Jason Ludden on March 30, 2005, 02:39:44 PM
But locally (Southern CT) I am totally spoiled.
My local guitar center (Orange CT). Has a Pro Audio section with a great manager (Shawn Chua) he helped me to design and build my first PA and I love it. He is very open to me talking to my about gear they don't stock. And will often tell me not to buy something I am looking at, without pushing a different product. My local Pro audio loyalties are completely with him.
And up until recently we had J0e Delaney (joetown.com) at Sam Ash. I good live guy, but a GREAT studio guy. He has moved on to other ventures, but I still keep in touch with him.
It would have been scary to hear what the credit card companies and my wife would have said, if J0e and Shawn both worked together.
My
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 30, 2005, 02:56:14 PM
JR
Post by: Graham Riggle on March 31, 2005, 08:56:53 AM
Post by: Bennett Prescott on March 31, 2005, 10:57:14 AM