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Title: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: R D Smith on January 27, 2008, 01:45:11 PM

During today's service, it became very apparent the timer has come to do some cleaning of our ONLY mixer - a Carvin 2444 approx 3 years old.   The problem is static throughout the channel faders. (temporarily stops when faders are cycled up/down several times)

While I am skilled with using delicate tools, attention to detail, etc.,  I have never performed this activity and would appreciate your opinions on wether it is something we should attempt in house or suffer a couple weeks without the mixer by taking it to a repair shop in the Dallas area.

Not afraid to admit to our limitations - so any advice/info will be appreciated.

Have a blessed day!

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jeff Ekstrand on January 27, 2008, 07:53:33 PM

Don't crack-open that board yourself. Also, don't be surprised if whoever opens it finds some nasty corrosion in there... and thus need to replace it with a new console.

If you try anything in-house, don't go much further than "air-in-a-can."

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jerrybosun on January 27, 2008, 08:00:49 PM

If your great with de-soldering have the patience of a saint ---  and two weeks full time you can clean and lubricate the insides of the faders,  then you will probably have to redo it 4 months later. I did.  OR  you can pay at tech $60/hr for a 40 hours and then worry about all the EQ Pot's going bad....   all to resurrect a 300 mixer.

my experience,,,,,

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jim Le Gros. on January 28, 2008, 06:45:40 AM

The above opinions look like good advise to me, I suggest it’s time to get the Church top start budgeting for a new desk, and try to raise stakes a little and go for a better quality desk (Avoid kit like Behringer’s PLEASE), so depending on your loyalty to USA brands I'd be looking at Mackie (USA) (but hopefully better), (Yamaha perhaps?) or preferably desks like Allen & Heath's you will get a much better life expectancy out of better built consoles, which obviously cost a bit more but cost less in the long-run.

Keep growing!

Jim.

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jerrybosun on January 28, 2008, 09:07:12 AM

I second new board.  NO MACKIE!  After dealing with a ribbon cable design flaw they still have not addressed or fixed NO-WAY.  As far as price point goes ,  A&H or Yamaha is the ticket. This should be an easy sale to the church. Ask them 2 questions... Do you want to re-buy a board every 2-3 years? Do you want to be heard?

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Gil Parente on January 29, 2008, 10:54:57 PM

I agree with the fellas above.
Time for a new console.
I'll vote Allen&Heath also.  They are very reliable and their modular designs are much easier to service than others.  Even on their smaller consoles like the MixWizard, they are using individual channel strips. We sell a bunch of A&H and rarely have returns or service calls.

I'm hesitant, but you could look into Caig Deoxit Fader lube for your fader problem.
http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.293/.f
I'm not sure if it would fix all your problems, but it may be worth a try.  I'd test on unused channels first.

take care
Gil

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jerrybosun on January 30, 2008, 09:42:45 AM

RD Smith,

Yeah Caig's products are the new holy grail for electrical lube and contact cleaners. They are by no means a panacea but once a year I go threw every church PA system I work with (three) and coat every accessible contact with Caigs G5 ProGold. This may seem excessive to some but I find the can of spray and two hours spent doing this keeps you from chasing intermittent gremlins throughout the year.

Please let us know how this turns out, these are the threads that other sound engineers can show their Pastor for justification of a new purchase or fix the old board syndrome.

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: R D Smith on February 02, 2008, 12:51:02 PM

As I hoped, you gentlement provided information needed.  Senior pastor fully agrees with upgrading equipment for longer term reliability.  We have initiated "savings" program and with God's help the existing board will hold up until funds are available.  
BTW - am looking at A&H and Yamaha - established a target of $2000.  Will definately be posting more as we are close to actual purchase.

Thanks again and have a Blessed day!

R D Smith

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Gil Parente on February 03, 2008, 08:41:33 PM

Hi,

Good to hear.  At that price range, I would strongly recommend an A&H GL2400.  Great consoles.  IMHO, they sound much better than yamahas.

Contact me when you are ready.  I may be able to get you a b-stock that would fit your budget nicely.

take care
Gil

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jerrybosun on February 04, 2008, 05:31:51 PM

Gil,
What is a Bstock?  I hear it a ton but don't know the definition.

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jeff Ekstrand on February 04, 2008, 08:26:58 PM

B-Stock refers to either overstock, or slightly used or demo equipment. Sometimes manufacturers will give a dealer a product to keep in a show-room, or to use on a special event for publicity. It's never really been owned, but is often times lightly used. Sometimes you can get B-Stock items that have never been used, but they've sat on the shelf long enough that the dealer just wants it gone.

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jerrybosun on February 05, 2008, 12:44:13 PM

So there is no difference in quality?

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Jeff Ekstrand on February 05, 2008, 02:06:59 PM

There really shouldn't be. We had Yamaha forward us a B-Stock M7CL for a show because our brand-new one wasn't ready from the factory (back in the early days of its release when they were back-ordered)... you wouldn't have known it was B-Stock unless you saw the e-mails and the sales orders.

Now, it also depends on what the individual considers B-Stock. Some places might have a piece of gear that sat on the sales floor for three years, got handled and demoed by every person who walked into the shop. At that point I wouldn't consider it B-Stock, but some places would.

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on February 05, 2008, 04:07:11 PM

Jim Le Gros. wrote on Mon, 28 January 2008 11:45

The above opinions look like good advise to me, I suggest it’s time to get the Church top start budgeting for a new desk,

Agreed.

Quote:

...and try to raise stakes a little and go for a better quality desk (Avoid kit like Behringer’s PLEASE)

There are a lot of people who might see Behringer as a significant move up from Carvin.

Quote:

so depending on your loyalty to USA brands I'd be looking at Mackie (USA)

I saw a Mackie SR32 the other day that said something about Made in China on the serial number tag.

Quote:

(but hopefully better), (Yamaha perhaps?)

I'm under the impression that the lower end Yamaha analog consoles are also made in China.

Quote:

or preferably desks like Allen & Heath's

I hear some of the lower end of that line is also made you-know-where...

Quote:

you will get a much better life expectancy out of better built consoles, which obviously cost a bit more but cost less in the long-run.

Agreed.

Title: Re: Cleaning Nonpowered Mixer
Post by: Gil Parente on February 05, 2008, 07:48:23 PM

thanks for the B-stock explanation Jeff.
You beat me to it.

It is also important to point out that b-stock items have full warranty.  So, basically, performance is guaranteed.

I'm almost positive that the GL series are made in China.  But I'll double check.  Regardless, they are one of the few consoles at that price range where construction is done using a modular approach. Making life really easy if you need to service it.

just my2cents.

take care
Gil