Post by: Mike Constable on August 11, 2007, 01:33:42 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Line-Array-System-CTseries-Compact-Line- Array-System_W0QQitemZ200136512892QQihZ010QQcategoryZ47094QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and for the BT
http://cgi.ebay.com/Line-Array-System-Compact-Design-w-Built -in-Amps-DSP_W0QQitemZ200136515074QQihZ010QQcategoryZ47094QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I was looking at changing my setup and possibly array system, just looking for info on these if any.
Post by: Kemper Watson on August 11, 2007, 08:54:19 AM
Post by: Ivan Beaver on August 11, 2007, 10:40:12 AM
And you don't "look" for reps by advertising for them and waiting for them to call you. It is up to the manufacturer to seek out the right people to rep the product, not just someone who is interested in a greatly reduced price-as stated.
Normally reps don't buy products, they present them to others and get a cut.
I agree-STAY AWAY
Post by: Iain_Macdonald on August 11, 2007, 12:43:44 PM
If you want to contact the Manufacturer, I would suggest that you learn Cantonese or Mandarin.
Made in America - B/S. Unless you invaded while I wasn't looking.
http://tinyurl.com/2wk592
Iain
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on August 11, 2007, 02:21:48 PM
| Iain Macdonald wrote on Sat, 11 August 2007 09:43 |
Made in America - B/S. Unless you invaded while I wasn't looking. Iain |
Touche
Post by: Mike Constable on August 12, 2007, 07:56:18 PM
Post by: Paul Hill on August 12, 2007, 11:50:12 PM
CT-series 1x15" subwoofer
Frequency response - 135Hz - 800Hz
Excuse me?
(It's in the spec sheet in the images at the bottom)
Post by: Jeff Babcock on August 13, 2007, 10:27:58 AM
Just noticed this is your post too....
Based on what has been discussed in the Versarray vs VRX thread, I really wonder if you need a line array solution for what you have described. Line arrays are useful tools but certainly not the right solution for every environment. They can excel in long throw applications, outdoors, venues with balconies (ie theaters) etc where extended throw and vertical pattern control can be useful. However for the average user playing to smaller crowds at short distances with a common vertical plane, the benefits really become questionable.
Many people have begun thinking that line arrays are better than trap boxes as a general rule. This is simply not true. Each have their own benefits and should be used appropriately. Don't let the fact that line arrays are currently the bandwagon that everyone is jumping on make you think that's what will work best for you in your scenario. Based on what you said earlier in the other thread, I really think you would in most cases be better served by a small trap rig with some high output cabs that have reasonable pattern control. I hate making specific box recommendations, but something like Community SLS920's or Yorkville U15's might make a nice top box for you at a reasonable price.
Regards
Jeff
Post by: Adam Kane on August 13, 2007, 11:10:46 AM
Post by: Marsellus Fariss on September 02, 2007, 09:38:59 PM
Post by: JAN M. WILLIAMS on October 29, 2007, 05:20:04 PM
Post by: Rob Spence on October 29, 2007, 10:10:09 PM
| J WILLIAMS wrote on Mon, 29 October 2007 17:20 |
I'm still curious if anyone on this forum has used or heard the TVI Line Array systems. I can relate to many of the posters and thir reluctance to take this company too seriously and to evaluate a system that appears on the surface to be inferior or too inexpensive however it does deserve a listen and a look-see. Who knows, it might be great for small venues or for small sound companies just starting out. After all, the 'big boys' had to start somewhere. |
Ten boxes including 2 subs and hanging hardware for under $6k? You are talking about JRX or other cheapo level stuff.
Would you like to stand under it? Is the hanging gear even rated?
Many line array systems cost more than $6k per box.
You can get a pretty good pair of speakers and a pair subs for that money or 8 cheap speakers and 2 cheap subs.
I am not surprised no one has tried these. They are not believable.
Remember, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 29, 2007, 10:34:52 PM
Mac
moderator
Post by: Vince Byrne on October 30, 2007, 06:29:36 PM
| JAN M. WILLIAMS wrote on Mon, 29 October 2007 16:20 |
I can relate to many of the posters and thir reluctance to take this company too seriously and to evaluate a system that appears on the surface to be inferior or too inexpensive however it does deserve a listen and a look-see. ... After all, the 'big boys' had to start somewhere. |
And why do they deserve a listen and a look-see? There has to be something beyond "appears on the surface to be inferior or too inexpensive" to earn a piece of anyone's attention. The 'little boys' who have become 'big boys' did so when they stood out from the crowd in some way. Technology, features, usability, service ... even fashion.
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 30, 2007, 08:17:14 PM
| JAN M. WILLIAMS wrote on Mon, 29 October 2007 17:20 |
I'm still curious if anyone on this forum has used or heard the TVI Line Array systems. I can relate to many of the posters and thir reluctance to take this company too seriously and to evaluate a system that appears on the surface to be inferior or too inexpensive however it does deserve a listen and a look-see. Who knows, it might be great for small venues or for small sound companies just starting out. After all, the 'big boys' had to start somewhere. |
Here's a thought. Go buy the set. Write a review..Tell us what you find out.
Edit . I'll bet you that it won't keep up with 4 QRX boxes (2 218 subs- 2 212 tops)
Post by: Jess Bruffett on October 30, 2007, 10:02:39 PM
Post by: Ian Hunt on October 31, 2007, 11:35:32 AM
"DEMO UNIT NOW AVAILABLE, CONTACT US TO SCHEDULE A TIME TO HEAR THIS AWESOME SYSTEM!"
I took that off th ebay ad, where did you find the "WE DO NOT OFFER DEMO'S OF THIS PRODUCT" that appears in your post?
As I have no knowledge of the product I can't comment on the value, seems a bit cheap though.
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 31, 2007, 01:24:06 PM
| Ian Hunt wrote on Wed, 31 October 2007 11:35 |
Hi Kemper "DEMO UNIT NOW AVAILABLE, CONTACT US TO SCHEDULE A TIME TO HEAR THIS AWESOME SYSTEM!" I took that off th ebay ad, where did you find the "WE DO NOT OFFER DEMO'S OF THIS PRODUCT" that appears in your post? As I have no knowledge of the product I can't comment on the value, seems a bit cheap though. |
When this thread started, the caps statement was prominent in the add.
It has since been changed. Oh the power we have!!!!
Post by: Ian Hunt on October 31, 2007, 06:13:11 PM
Post by: Mike Constable on October 31, 2007, 06:14:12 PM
The system I inquired on was their large format c-212II.
Post by: Vince Byrne on November 01, 2007, 11:24:08 AM
| Mike Constable wrote on Wed, 31 October 2007 17:14 |
Hey guys, I have contacted them as they now have a website as well. |
Post by: Kemper Watson on November 01, 2007, 12:59:36 PM
| Vince Byrne wrote on Thu, 01 November 2007 11:24 | ||
|
Exactly. Why buy an unknown and untested product. I wouldn't buy this product until someone here has road tested them.
How about it TVI. Set up a demo here. Let's hear these amazing speakers..
Post by: David Baker (TVI Audio) on November 02, 2007, 05:57:50 PM
First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has taken the time to inquire and discuss the TVi product line on this forum. Secondly, I would like to inform everyone that this reply is intended solely to provide more detailed information about TVi to all that are interested. In this reply, I will try my best to provide you with the most accurate information that I possibly can. I will also try to address some of the concerns that have been brought to our attention. Please know that we are a non-traditional company, we do things a little different than other companies. That being said, we highly value you and your opinions, and we are always open to positive feedback that can better our service and product line.
Our company…
We currently operate out of our main office in Anderson, IN and secondary office in South Bend, IN. We handle all of our warehousing and shipping in Chicago, IL, and are currently working on a new service location in Jacksonville, FL. We have been in business since 2003 and have hundreds of boxes on the market. Our users include: production companies, end users, and a national touring artist. We have just moved into line array systems within the past two years. We currently have compact systems installed in various places throughout the U.S and are more than happy to give our future customers as many user references as they need to feel comfortable with their purchase. We are also more than happy to give you physical locations where you can travel to hear our products. We are always available to answer any questions that you may have. If there are questions that we cannot answer for you, we will speak to our engineers to get you the information that you request.
Our products and pricing…
For those of you who are skeptical of the quality because of the price point. We never have made the claim that our products are the best choice for everyone, nor have we claimed that they are better than Vertec or EAW. What we do claim is that we offer a great product for a great price and encourage you to make your own decision after testing them. Our boxes are constructed of Birchwood and the hardware is very strong and tested/rated. We also offer next business day shipping on all of our replacement components. Our goal at TVi is to “Under Charge and Over Deliver.” We are a smaller company that has less operation expense and deals directly with our customers, allowing us to offer a high quality product for a much lower price than many of our competitors. Again, do not take our word for it.
Please, if you are genuinely interested, talk to people who are using TVi products. We are happy to provide you with several user references. Also, the official launch of our new line array products will be 2008. After the first of the year, our customers can request to have one of our line array boxes sent to them to be tested before purchasing. This will be for any medium/large format box in our product line. We understand why you would want to test them before purchasing. It is a large investment for most people. We would like to offer full scale demos, but without major market share it is difficult to do this whenever there is an interested buyer. We should have reps in most states by mid 2008 where you can travel and hear an system in action if you would like.
E-bay comments…
For those of you who have expressed concern about our lack of feedback from eBay; eBay is the largest web marketing tool in the U.S and we take advantage of this in every way possible. Do we sell “Buy It Now” on eBay? Not often. Do we sell hundreds of boxes to satisfied customers that inquire to us directly? The answer is yes. If we sell systems on eBay direct, that is a bonus. TVi actually tested this method by hiring a reputable eBay seller to advertise for us. It is fantastic advertisement tool and has worked very well. Is this our only form of advertisement? No. We use many other forms as well. If you are looking for feedback on our products, please contact us for user references. You will not find much on eBay feedback.
SPL on our BT-Series…
This system is a fantastic system for “what it was designed for”. It is not designed to be used in large venues that require a lot of SPL. One complete cluster is not even 25 inches tall and weighs less than 120lbs set up. It has a built-in amplifier and DSP processor, making it an excellent choice for corporate events and smaller applications. The SPL rating is for one cluster…1/2 of a system. That is something that we did not specify on our website and listings. The clarity of this system in amazing and the 120 degree coverage is fantastic. It is surprisingly powerful for as small as it is. It is not ideal for every application, but great for other applications. Please contact me if you would like to talk to users. I can provide you with as many as you would like.
Thank you for your time,
We are sincerely here to serve our customers. We do not claim to have the best solution for every sound company, but if you are looking for an affordable line array system that sounds great, please contact us. We would love to have the opportunity to take care of you. If you have more questions or would like to give us positive feedback, please e-mail me direct Thank you.
David Baker
True Vision, Inc.
www.tviaudio.com
dave@tviaudio.com
Post by: E. Lee Dickinson on November 02, 2007, 10:30:39 PM
See the Road Test forum here on these boards. With one demo, you can get your product in front of thousands of live sound professionals. Ship a system out to one of the recognized road testers, they'll use it on a few appropriate gigs, and write a thoughtful and thorough review.
Road testers are even quite good at comparing apples to apples. If you say it's a small format corporate array, it will be reviewed as such.
If you say it is a budget system, it will be reviewed in terms of 'bang for your buck.'
Post by: Rick Stansby on November 02, 2007, 11:03:37 PM
| Marsellus Fariss wrote on Mon, 03 September 2007 02:38 |
I noticed from his feedback that he hasn't sold a single one of them at least as far back as I could see. |
These have been on ebay for a couple years, and there have been several threads on this forum about them. But they keep changing their name, probably so people can't track them down.
Post by: David Baker (TVI Audio) on November 03, 2007, 01:01:45 AM
David
Post by: Jeff Babcock on November 05, 2007, 01:50:29 PM
It's amazing how marketing has convinced so many that a line array is a superior solution for just about any audio need, when in fact I've heard more poorly deployed bad sounding line array systems than trap systems in my lifetime. There is a lot more that you can screw up with a line array. Box shading is a big one. My hope is TVI and others making these budget offerings at least offer some really good support to make sure the product is deployed properly, because even IF the product is a good value, it still has the potential to really suck in the wrong hands.
Post by: JAN M. WILLIAMS on November 14, 2007, 12:11:47 PM
The reason for even considering this system is that the theater that I work with has a limited budget...Non-Profit. If they had more resources I would go with Meyer....but they don't.
It's going to take a lot to impress me...I'm spoiled using Meyers for my road work however.....just as people have given me opportunities to prove myself, I am willing to at least try to evaluate their system.
Any-who....I'll post once I've had the chance to personally evaluate.
Post by: henry dabney on December 23, 2007, 10:57:20 PM
i have been on this business for over 35 years, i started with sound when i was 12 years old and i am 49 today, i have seen and worked with most of the brands in the planet,,,you name them. i know Kenton from eaw personally as well as john Meyer and Pablo Espinoza from Meyer, celso papadopulus who started in eaw as the Latin America NO.1 guy and he is nexos no. 1 for Latin America today, an many others, you can call any of them and ask about me,,,please do. . i believe that progress is made by those who do things in a different way, and try to make a better solution by experience. price is not the answer to great sound, i have heard real bad sound with very expensive equipment, and good sound with home made cabinets to. i used jbl, RFC, b&c, mc cauley, altec, selenium, ev,pv,turbo-sound, beyma, klipsh, and many others. for your reference i have a system of xrt 22 McIntosh with 2 mc 2600, 2 mc 2125 in my living room today.
i own a company in Houston, Mexico city, Cancun, los cabos and Monterrey Mexico,,,www.audiosystem.com.mx, www.audiosystems.com.mx, www.dbstv.com, I'm an a/v supplier's supplier, with lots of experience in live shows, more than 4000 in my back.
Meyer is a great for those who want to get an integral solution and have the money to do so, (i am not trying to say it doesn't work, but if we have the option to modify some of their paths we could have a better sounding and more reliable Meyer).
it is also great if you have a company that rents sound based on "how many cabinets you want per side" and try to do the job with double of what they really need, understanding that double the cabs translates to a 3db increase, and double $$$$ (for this kind of companies i strongly recommend Meyer).
audio is very new, only 50 years of age and only 25 of real progress. i support everyone who is doing or trying different ways and better prices to, but loving audio as much as i do.
the line array concept was originally developed by dr. Christian heill on the 70s and the first cabinets with this concept where created by McIntosh xrt22, the first company to use them in live shows was L-acoustics with v-dosc and then every other company followed today i must ask you to see and listen K-ARRAY that has the most resent and progressive design on the planet, you can see it on you tube and on www.k-array.com
so after all, the guys from tvi are to my point of view a possible great deal that after the ces convention in las Vegas this Jan 08 i will stop and see.
when i had heard their systems i will let you know what i think lets give them a chance, they have earned don't you think?
my phone in us is 909 758 7475, in Mexico is 52 998 914 0028, my e mail is henrydabney@hotmail.com and cancun@dbstv.com
if you want to see how i look go to dbstv.com go partners, filter mexico and find me under (dabney sound & stage)
at dbstv we have offices in 30 countries around the globe
have a nice day
henry dabney
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on December 24, 2007, 02:04:35 AM
If so, I look forward to it.
Dr/Mr Heil certainly put theory to successful commercial practice, but the concepts, by his own admission, predated his birth.
As far as TVI having "earned a chance?" I suppose they, like any commercial enterprise, deserves a chance. I've gambled on "unknowns" before to successful conclusions.
But I will caution you that putting anyone up as a shill usually detracts from an emerging company's credibility.
Post by: E. Lee Dickinson on March 20, 2008, 05:10:01 PM
Post by: SteveKirby on March 20, 2008, 08:32:11 PM
| henry dabney wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 21:57 |
>>the line array concept was originally developed by dr. Christian heill on the 70s and the first cabinets with this concept where created by McIntosh xrt22, the first company to use them in live shows was L-acoustics with v-dosc <<... |
Uhh, it only took a couple of seconds for Yahoo to find the designer of the xrt22, who freely admits to prior art on his site http://www.roger-russell.com/columns/columns.htm#beginning
This also ignores things such as the Magnapans and SoundLab and Martin Logan electrostatics that behave as line souces. Either by having narrow high frequency sections or curved radiators in the horzontal plane.
Even on the lounge, there are folks who have some sense of audio history. It doesn't do very well in attempting to establish credibility to make such statements.
Post by: Brian Wynn on March 20, 2008, 11:57:38 PM
I found TVI on Ebay just like most of you guys and was interested because of the price. My first words were "Wonder what that thing sounds like"
So I spoke with David from TVI on Monday, and requested a Demo. He said I would have it this week seeing that they are 45 minutes from me. I will give it a full review on the Road Test section.
That is if its ok with the moderator seeing the road test wasn't setup by PSW.
I did the EV Phoenix road test last year. And I own a 16 box EV linearray system right now. (I might have to make a direct comparison.)
I will state my unbiased option on this company and its product all the way around.
Now I need some ideas on what people want to see as far as data. Freq sweeps, Smaart Data, DB, SPL ratings achieved, Hardware reliability, easy of rigging????????????????????
Give me some ideas.
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 21, 2008, 08:45:10 AM
| Brian Wynn wrote on Thu, 20 March 2008 23:57 |
Its funny to me that this post has come up. I found TVI on Ebay just like most of you guys and was interested because of the price. My first words were "Wonder what that thing sounds like" So I spoke with David from TVI on Monday, and requested a Demo. He said I would have it this week seeing that they are 45 minutes from me. I will give it a full review on the Road Test section. That is if its ok with the moderator seeing the road test wasn't setup by PSW. I did the EV Phoenix road test last year. And I own a 16 box EV linearray system right now. (I might have to make a direct comparison.) I will state my unbiased option on this company and its product all the way around. Now I need some ideas on what people want to see as far as data. Freq sweeps, Smaart Data, DB, SPL ratings achieved, Hardware reliability, easy of rigging???????????????????? Give me some ideas. |
Full analysis. Build quality, SPL, response, directivity, power handling and the good old "What my ear tells me" test.
Post by: Bob Leonard on March 21, 2008, 08:47:28 AM
| Mike Constable wrote on Sat, 11 August 2007 01:33 |
I was on ebay and searched a bit to find nothing. I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of or used the TVI Audio CT or BT series line arrays. They are currently on EBAY. Here is a link to the CT http://cgi.ebay.com/Line-Array-System-CTseries-Compact-Line- Array-System_W0QQitemZ200136512892QQihZ010QQcategoryZ47094QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and for the BT http://cgi.ebay.com/Line-Array-System-Compact-Design-w-Built -in-Amps-DSP_W0QQitemZ200136515074QQihZ010QQcategoryZ47094QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I was looking at changing my setup and possibly array system, just looking for info on these if any. |
Both of these listings appear to be deleted.
Post by: Mike Kivett on March 21, 2008, 09:43:48 AM
Post by: Donnie Evans on March 21, 2008, 09:48:24 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/TVi-Line-Array-System-Compact-Design-Bui lt-in-Amps-DSP_W0QQitemZ190206479675QQihZ009QQcategoryZ47094 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Post by: Tom Manchester on March 21, 2008, 09:59:30 AM
Post by: Mark Malone on March 22, 2008, 09:44:47 PM
Post by: Duncan McLennan on March 22, 2008, 10:36:28 PM
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on March 22, 2008, 11:21:10 PM
and I almost got excited there was actually a review here.. not really.. but sort of.
Post by: Tim Duffin on March 24, 2008, 04:53:46 AM
T
Post by: Duncan McLennan on March 24, 2008, 08:29:23 AM
Yep, I'd be hesitant to use anything other than some of the big name brands too. I've heard lots of shows with V-DOSC that sounded like crap. It's amazing how much the venue, implementation, hang, and other variables can make something so well respected sound awful.
Now imagine trying to compensate for those factors using a system that didn't sound that great in the first place.
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on March 24, 2008, 10:38:58 AM
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 24, 2008, 03:52:19 PM
| jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) wrote on Mon, 24 March 2008 09:38 |
A-line is a very good sounding box. I spent many a hours listening to their product. Operator error. |
Having not heard or used the ALine system, I'm curious as to what operator-controlled parameters could account for the HF horizontal coverage issue that Duffin mentions. It's a powered unit, so I can't blame processor pilot error on the user...
Inquiring mind,
Tim Mc
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on March 27, 2008, 07:59:48 PM
One thing I really liked about the A line was their LSR HF.. Of course that will probably open up another set of doors for differences.
Post by: Tim Duffin on March 31, 2008, 04:49:21 AM
T
Post by: Scott Smith on March 31, 2008, 07:37:31 PM
| Tim Duffin wrote on Mon, 24 March 2008 04:53 |
...I will not take my chances with anything that is not one of the top 5 brands... |
I can respect that statement if that is your choice, but if everyone thought like this, then people like Jeff would not be selling his popular new Growlers either. I can't speak for TVI line-array products, but competition is the American way.
Post by: Brian Wynn on March 31, 2008, 07:41:58 PM
I ran it though its paces in passive mode a little today. Give me a day or two and ill try it in biamp mode and check out the craftsmanship and quality.
Ill take some pics and post them soon.
Post by: Phil LaDue on March 31, 2008, 07:52:45 PM
| Scott Smith wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 19:37 | ||
I can respect that statement if that is your choice, but if everyone thought like this, then people like Jeff would not be selling his popular new Growlers either. I can't speak for TVI line-array products, but competition is the American way. |
If only prejudice against the little guy wasn't so rampant.
Back in 1927 two guys opened a loudspeaker business on Santa Barbara Avenue in Los Angeles, California.
Eventually that company became what is now known as JBL.
Or how about that crazy organist that opened a music shop in Marissa Illinois?
Post by: Steve Payne on April 01, 2008, 09:11:27 AM
However, whenever someone brings a product to market that on the surface looks, smells and tastes like a dozen other products, BUT, it costs half the price or less than everyone else's, one question forms: "How do they do that?" A little poking usually reveals a not too flattering answer.
Post by: SteveKirby on April 01, 2008, 12:22:55 PM
But just getting a cabinet shop and machine shop to whack out an approximation of established design concepts turns the whole thing into a commodity enterprise. Fortunatly (or unfortunately), unlike PC motherboards, there's a bit more to copying a line array.
Post by: Tim Duffin on April 02, 2008, 07:03:50 AM
| Phil LaDue wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 16:52 | ||||
If only prejudice against the little guy wasn't so rampant. Back in 1927 two guys opened a loudspeaker business on Santa Barbara Avenue in Los Angeles, California. Eventually that company became what is now known as JBL. Or how about that crazy organist that opened a music shop in Marissa Illinois? |
Thats not exactly true. You do not give JBL enough credit. As far as Im concerned, JBL invented the entire concept of bass. Nobody in the world had ever heard 50hz from a woofer until James B lansing invented the actual driver and the manufacturing process as well as the materials used to create a product that did something nobody thought was possible.
T
Post by: Randy Pence on April 02, 2008, 07:53:34 AM
| Tim Duffin wrote on Wed, 02 April 2008 13:03 |
Thats not exactly true. You do not give JBL enough credit. As far as Im concerned, JBL invented the entire concept of bass. Nobody in the world had ever heard 50hz from a woofer until James B lansing invented the actual driver and the manufacturing process as well as the materials used to create a product that did something nobody thought was possible. T |
this is siily. If jbl was not the first, someone else would have been. After feeling thunder, pipe organs, and whatever else that produced some shaking waves, it was just a matter of time before someone figured out how to reproduce it.
Post by: Mike {AB} Butler on April 02, 2008, 07:56:28 AM
| Tim Duffin wrote on Wed, 02 April 2008 07:03 | ||||||
Thats not exactly true. You do not give JBL enough credit. As far as Im concerned, JBL invented the entire concept of bass. Nobody in the world had ever heard 50hz from a woofer until James B lansing invented the actual driver and the manufacturing process as well as the materials used to create a product that did something nobody thought was possible. T |
And you're not giving JBL too much credit? There were sub-50 hz boxes from Altec, EV, and even RCA in that time period. Even Harry F. Olson's Accoustical Engineering shows sub- 50 Hz performance from cabinets, IIRC.
But to partly backup your claim, I do remember reading articles that give James Lansing credit for developing the first drivers that could handle more than the 30 minuscule watts that everyone else in the day was stopped at.
Regards,
Post by: Mark Malone on April 15, 2008, 10:37:45 AM
Thanks!!
Post by: Brian Wynn on April 15, 2008, 11:35:21 AM
| Mark Malone wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 09:37 |
Brian, have you had a chance to put these boxes through its paces yet? Just wondering what you think both passive and in biamp modes. Thanks!! |
Yes
I had the 2 x 10 box for about a week. First thing I noticed coming out of the box was the rigging was badly damaged from a poorly designed shipping box. Next I noticed the same problem with the grille. At that point we fixed the rigging hardware with some hand tools which was very easy and kind of worried me because of the material is easily bent.
Passive mode:
On a EV CP2200 power amp with some program music. In passive mode we ran it pretty hard and found out quickly the horn was harsh around 2K and 4K so with a few notch's on the old 2231 EQ we got it sounding good. It does get loud and stays clean up to 105dB (measured from about 1 meter).
BiAmp mode:
On a CP2200 power amp with a DR260 processor with program music again. X over at 1.2K this is a guess because we were not provided any recommended points or had time to smaart the box. EQ cuts were the same and we could squeeze 2 more dB out of it before it started to break up.
Construction:
In my opinion this is were this box suffers the most. The rigging is very thin and poorly constructed. The front rigging points were very hard to get to. They slide down into the rigging cage to store when not in use. We couldn't figure out how to extract them with out using a screw driver. The rear rigging is a swing arm that stores in the rear of the box. These are much easier to get at. But they have a slotted hole for rear rigging pin to fit into. Which makes it impossible to ground stack this box. We did not see any paperwork in the box stating that the rigging was certified. There was no rigging manual supplied. At this point we removed the grille and one the 10" drivers. We noticed that alot of the screws that secure the rigging to the box were cross threaded when they were installed. An the X over looks very "Chinese" to me but it didn't say made in China from what I could tell. The drivers had good sized magnets on them but didn't provide us with a make or model. The NL4 connectors on the back of the box were from a generic manufacturer.
Pros:
Sounds Good with little EQ in Passive mode.
Sounds Better with little EQ in BiAmp mode.
Weight was about right for that size box.
Over sized rigging pins.
Price point.
Cons:
Poorly designed rigging hardware.
Poorly designed shipping box.
Use of Generic NL4 connectors.
No Ground stacking.
Conclusion: This box fits into a price point that is almost non-exsistant in the linearray market place. With a little creative thinking on the buyers part you could improve the rigging hardware and smaart the box to come up with a good solid preset. At that point you would have yourself a good "bang for the buck" linaearray rig. These would be perfect box's for the club installs and church pa systems. If they were to be used on the road I would have ATA cases made for them or be very careful moving them around because of the rigging issues. All in all I would say Buy them if your on a tight budget and want a linearray PA! We did not get a fly bar with the demo.
Post by: David Baker (TVI Audio) on April 15, 2008, 02:16:57 PM
First of all, I would like to thank Brian for the honest product review of the C-210. I would like to add a couple of informational updates. The C-210 line array box that was sent was an older model prototype box that we had ready to send. With customer feedback, we have made some great updates on our newer version. Also, the C-210 array box was not inspected before it was sent. It was sent directly after being received from another customer who had taken it apart prior. If the screws were cross threaded, it was not originally that way. Knowing this, we will be more careful in the future to inspect before resending.
1. The fly hardware that was sent on this test unit is steel and has been tested to handle plenty of weight, but we have doubled the fly-hardware thickness on our newer models to give our customers what they would like. This is more for road durability then anything.
2. We now offer Neutrik / "Power-Con" on our powered boxes. The NL4 inputs are not Neutrik, but the are high quality. If our customer would like Neutrik and is willing to spend a little more money, we can make it happen.
3. Shipping a 75lb line array box Fed Ex Ground is not ideal in any cardboard packaging. We offer very high quality stackable flight cases with high quality locking casters for our line array boxes. We highly recommend these with every purchase. I am attaching a picture of one of our customer orders with cases. We get many single unit demo request and our customers pay the shipping, so to keep the shipping charges down for our customer, we use FedEx ground instead of freight.
4. We recently added polished steel thumb buttons that bolt into the steel hardware to make the hardware an easy slide design. Our prototype boxes did not have this feature. We are always working to improve our product and offer the very best product we can for a great price.
5. We are currently in the process of developing AIM Software for all of our line array boxes. Software engineers are on the task as we speak, and it is planned to be released sometime in 2008.
6. Our C-212II line array boxes are currently out on the 2008 Hypnotized" tour featuring major hip hop artists. I believe that there are 12 dates left on the tour. It came through Indiana two weeks ago at the Conseco Field House (Indiana Pacers Stadium). We dropped by, and it sounded fantastic. If you get the chance to check out the tour, you can get a great idea of our product.
In conclusion, we thank all of you for your interest in our product line and look forward to your business!
Tvi Audio www.tviaudio.com
Post by: Steve Payne on April 15, 2008, 02:49:32 PM
I reread your post several times to see if I was missing something. I don't think I am. I am pretty sure that you just tested one element of a purported line array system that sounded harsh around 2 to 4k, begins to distort at 105db at 1 meter, is fitted with fly ware that is easily bent with hand tools, aiming software is currently unavailable and rigging instructions are not supplied. From this you surmised that if the buyer exercised a bit of creative thinking and redesigned the flyware and smarted the system to establish their own set of operating parameters they would have themselves a good bang for the buck line array system. Interesting conclusions. Thanks for that.
p.s. - I also am left wondering exactly what makes a passive crossover look very "Chinese".
Post by: Jeff Babcock on April 15, 2008, 03:05:05 PM
Brian, I truly appreciate your efforts to put a review together for this (you were perhaps more positive given the results than I might have been!), but based on what you were given to work with it is impossible to make the conclusion that this will make a good line array without hearing it that way. I'm not saying it's the case, but for all we know a full array of these boxes could sound no better than a bunch of decent trap boxes laid on their side stacked vertically.
I think the only thing that can be concluded from this review is regarding build quality and rigging hardware quality. If I were buying a line array I would NEVER base my decision on hearing 1 element instead of an actual line, that's just nuts. If TVI wants to get serious customers they need to let them hear a real full scale rig. Then some accurate reviews can happen giving a fair evaluation of what the system is capable of in its intended environment. If I were TVI and assuming I believed in my product, I would want to get some reviews happening asap. Even if the reviews are not all positive it will help them to build a better product in the future.
Post by: Brian Wynn on April 15, 2008, 04:49:24 PM
| Jeff Babcock wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 14:05 |
As Steve alluded to, I don't see how hearing one box can give any sort of conclusion as to how this will work in a real line. Particularly important is how well the boxes interact with each other, which we know nothing about. I do know that breaking up at 105db at 1m sounds VERY wrong. Certainly the specs suggest you should be capable of getting A LOT more than that. One thing to note is there is a groundstacking option listed on their website. Brian, I truly appreciate your efforts to put a review together for this (you were perhaps more positive given the results than I might have been!), but based on what you were given to work with it is impossible to make the conclusion that this will make a good line array without hearing it that way. I'm not saying it's the case, but for all we know a full array of these boxes could sound no better than a bunch of decent trap boxes laid on their side stacked vertically. I think the only thing that can be concluded from this review is regarding build quality and rigging hardware quality. If I were buying a line array I would NEVER base my decision on hearing 1 element instead of an actual line, that's just nuts. If TVI wants to get serious customers they need to let them hear a real full scale rig. Then some accurate reviews can happen giving a fair evaluation of what the system is capable of in its intended environment. If I were TVI and assuming I believed in my product, I would want to get some reviews happening asap. Even if the reviews are not all positive it will help them to build a better product in the future. |
I completely agree.
I based my conclusion off of what was supplied to me from TVI. Which was just one box. I guess I didn't mention thatin my original post. oops
Post by: Josh Billings on April 15, 2008, 07:25:58 PM
Doesn't really hurt TVi at all and it helps them get a reputation (good or bad).
-Josh Billings
Post by: trace knight on April 15, 2008, 07:52:29 PM
tk
Post by: Evan Kirkendall on April 15, 2008, 08:52:25 PM
Evan
Post by: Jeff Babcock on April 15, 2008, 10:14:33 PM
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 16, 2008, 12:27:54 AM
| Jeff Babcock wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 21:14 |
If Peavey can send out a Versarray system for Road Test then I see no reason why TVI shouldn't be able to do the same. Something like 6 or 8 boxes a side would be a good start, as evidenced here there would be no problem getting road testers lined up. |
I was wondering if there was a conclusion to the Versarray road test. I'd still like to drive a Versarray rig to see how that experience lines up with what I heard.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
Post by: Jeff Babcock on April 16, 2008, 04:45:33 PM
| Tim McCulloch wrote on Wed, 16 April 2008 00:27 |
I was wondering if there was a conclusion to the Versarray road test. I'd still like to drive a Versarray rig to see how that experience lines up with what I heard. Have fun, good luck. Tim Mc |
Tim,
If I recall right it was a very brief road test, I think the rig had somewhere else to go which cut it short.
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 17, 2008, 03:36:38 PM
| Jeff Babcock wrote on Wed, 16 April 2008 15:45 | ||
Tim, If I recall right it was a very brief road test, I think the rig had somewhere else to go which cut it short. |
I guess I should go back and read the thread. Somehow the brevity of the "road" part was overlooked. Oh well, perhaps Peavey will send out the VR212 sometime.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
Post by: Michael 'Bink' Knowles on April 17, 2008, 04:21:51 PM
| Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Wed, 02 April 2008 04:56 |
...And you're not giving JBL too much credit? There were sub-50 hz boxes from Altec, EV, and even RCA in that time period. Even Harry F. Olson's Accoustical Engineering shows sub- 50 Hz performance from cabinets, IIRC. But to partly backup your claim, I do remember reading articles that give James Lansing credit for developing the first drivers that could handle more than the 30 minuscule watts that everyone else in the day was stopped at. Regards, |
A young Rudy Bozak hooked up a 27" cone (8" voice coil!) to a 500w high-power radio transmitter tube back in 1939. The magnet was an electromagnet that weighed 450 lbs. Actually there were 8 of these assemblies in a circle atop a tower at the 1939 World's Fair. Each driver was hooked to a horn with a 14' mouth; the monster drivers served as the LF section of a 2-way system. The top bandpass was probably another ring of Western Electric horns, but I'm not sure.
Don't know about its 50 Hz ability.
Probably not hi-fi; just efficient, powerful and LOUD.
-BinK
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on April 17, 2008, 04:41:37 PM
| Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Thu, 17 April 2008 15:21 |
A young Rudy Bozak hooked up a 27" cone (8" voice coil!) to a 500w high-power radio transmitter tube back in 1939. The magnet was an electromagnet that weighed 450 lbs. Actually there were 8 of these assemblies in a circle atop a tower at the 1939 World's Fair. Each driver was hooked to a horn with a 14' mouth; the monster drivers served as the LF section of a 2-way system. The top bandpass was probably another ring of Western Electric horns, but I'm not sure. Don't know about its 50 Hz ability. Probably not hi-fi; just efficient, powerful and LOUD. -BinK |
I recall seeing one of those monsters hanging from a chain hoist outside the anechoic chamber in the Bozak factory. You don't want to drop that on your foot.
JR
Post by: Charlie Zureki on April 20, 2008, 07:31:41 PM
And The Germans, pre WW 2 had higher Powered Sound Drivers as did the British. The Germans tried to use high SPL's as a weapon to disable their opponents.
But a good old (kidding Bob) American Kid invented the first Transistor amplifier capable of producing more than 300 Watts, his name is Bob Carver.
Hammer
Post by: Peter Etheredge on April 20, 2008, 07:38:30 PM
-pete
Post by: Dennis Pranevich on April 29, 2008, 09:00:51 PM
Post by: Rain Jaudon on April 29, 2008, 10:20:58 PM
| Dennis Pranevich wrote on Tue, 29 April 2008 20:00 |
Hi I would like to weigh in on this. I purchased A 210 active line array with their active 218 flying subs.I've been testing the eight subs with the twelve 210s for a couple weeks now, and they are great. The system is set up on one of my stages at my home for anyone to hear! |
Shoot some pics and video if you dont mind.
Thanks
Rain
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on April 29, 2008, 10:21:00 PM
| Dennis Pranevich wrote on Tue, 29 April 2008 21:00 |
Hi I would like to weigh in on this. I purchased A 210 active line array with their active 218 flying subs.I've been testing the eight subs with the twelve 210s for a couple weeks now, and they are great. The system is set up on one of my stages at my home for anyone to hear! |
Dennis... Where can we check out the system at?
Can you post some pictures of the set-up?
Post by: Tim Duffin on April 30, 2008, 02:04:56 AM
Post by: Mark Malone on August 09, 2008, 07:21:44 PM
Post by: Tate_Tullis on August 10, 2008, 09:11:56 PM
Post by: Tony "T" Tissot on August 10, 2008, 09:28:03 PM
| Tate Tullis wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 18:11 |
wow I cant believe this thread is still going. Did we ever get an answer on this one? |
Yes
Post by: Ian Hunt on August 14, 2008, 08:51:44 PM
Always succinct
Post by: Aaron Kovacik on August 14, 2008, 11:23:51 PM
Edit: whoops...sorry to tree users for the reply to the wrong post
Post by: anthony boyd on May 19, 2009, 03:14:24 PM
Post by: Martin Primus on May 19, 2009, 04:04:51 PM
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 19, 2009, 04:14:39 PM
| Martin Primus wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 16:04 |
Holy 9-month old thread reply batman!!! |
The way I count it, the last post before today's bump was 13 months ago. The topic was started in Aug 2007, or 20 months ago.
Let it go.
Mac
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 19, 2009, 04:14:39 PM
| Martin Primus wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 16:04 |
Holy 9-month old thread reply batman!!! |
The way I count it, the last post before today's bump was 13 months ago. The topic was started in Aug 2007, or 20 months ago.
Let it go.
Mac