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Title: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Lee McClintock on May 13, 2014, 10:56:13 AM
Hey everyone, I've been doing a lot of reading /research lately, and am looking for some opinions. It seems like these PSW forums have quite a bit of talk that's above my head, so figured this would be a good place to ask and learn.

I'm a mobile / hobbiest DJ that does spots in a few local bars / outside deck areas, and lately have been feeling like I really need some more lower end, as it seems I've been leaning a lot heavier on the hiphop/trap/dubstep genres and not as much pop/rock/top40 as I was when I started. I have around 1500$ +- to make some upgrades with. Unfortunately the only place to really hear any of the sound that I've found locally is our Guitar Center, and lately their wall has been pretty empty, so I have to go mostly on advice and reading than personal hearing and testing.

My current gear, that I've tried in various configurations is the following, for better or for worse:

Currently mixing out of a DDJ-SX, although I have another setup of 2 numark v7's and a behringer ddm400 I use on occasion as well. (http://pioneerdj.com/english/products/controller/ddj-sx.html and http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DDM4000.aspx, respectively)

2 EV ELX-115 Passive Tops (http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1072)
1 JBL MRX-518 Passive Sub (http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/MRX518.pdf)
1 QSC GX7 (http://qsc.com/products/Power_Amplifiers/Gx_Series/GX7/)
1 Crown XLS-1500 (http://www.crownaudio.com/media/storagebk/pdf/amps/XLS_Datasheet_CRO137.pdf)
1 DBX 215s EQ (http://dbxpro.com/en-US/products/215s)

Now I know these might not be matching up that great, and I've sure put a beating on things as is (especially the sub, which my nose tells me may not have long to live), so what would you guys suggest? For a bit, I've been looking at replacing the 518 with a powered sub, and I was looking at the LS801p, or possibly the PRX718-XLF. During my research, I found someone mention the LS808, and that the GX7 would be a nice fit for it, so with that said, I could also go that route, and have enough for a processor like the dbx pa+ to 'properly' even things out. I feel like "bang" for the buck wise, the LS808 might be the best route, but not having the ability to really listen to the differences, I don't know if the loudness of just one 718XLF, although it can go lower than the 808, would make it worth it (just having one for now, that is). I'd like to be able to start saying yes to some more mid-size gigs and parties, but just don't have the confidence in my gear at the moment to do that. Any advice would be more than welcome.

I could try to sell the components I have left over that I'm not using for another future upgrade (like towards a second sub if I need a second PRX, if I was to go that route), but not before making the other purchases, since I do use this setup on a weekly/bi-weekly basis, so I pretty much need to stick with the ~1500$ up front to balance things out.

Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Richard Turner on May 13, 2014, 09:45:39 PM
Ls808/801p are big and heavy and old technology. I have them but theres better value for money now., if you were looking at  good used set sure go for it but new, money would be better spent elsewhere


Are your clients saying you need more bass? Or is this just you?

Is this an actual business or a hobby? Are you getting paid for both aspects, providing the PA and operating it as a DJ?

You have made no mention of lighting or visual aspect of your show which more people will remember over the sound. Video DJ is becoming more popular in my area, Serato DJ+video plugin plus a projector and screen would make you stand out more than another MI grade sub.

My advice, take that $1500 and use it towards renting/leasing until you  have $5000 or enough gigs to justify financing a $10k purchase on something killer that will make you stand our from any other DJ within 100 miles.

Keep your rental receipts as they are a legitimate expense, where the purchased gear would only be a depreciating asset write off, sit down and run the numbers and see whrere the money would be best spent, a lateral move in changing one piece of gear at a time would likely not be the most profitable.
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Lee McClintock on May 13, 2014, 10:35:03 PM
Ls808/801p are big and heavy and old technology. I have them but theres better value for money now., if you were looking at  good used set sure go for it but new, money would be better spent elsewhere


Are your clients saying you need more bass? Or is this just you?

Is this an actual business or a hobby? Are you getting paid for both aspects, providing the PA and operating it as a DJ?

You have made no mention of lighting or visual aspect of your show which more people will remember over the sound. Video DJ is becoming more popular in my area, Serato DJ+video plugin plus a projector and screen would make you stand out more than another MI grade sub.

My advice, take that $1500 and use it towards renting/leasing until you  have $5000 or enough gigs to justify financing a $10k purchase on something killer that will make you stand our from any other DJ within 100 miles.

Keep your rental receipts as they are a legitimate expense, where the purchased gear would only be a depreciating asset write off, sit down and run the numbers and see whrere the money would be best spent, a lateral move in changing one piece of gear at a time would likely not be the most profitable.

Mostly hobbiest, as I have a full time job I work that is my main source of income, but I have a weekly gig at a local "divey" bar that I'd like to enhance a bit. Video would definitely be an option to move forward on, and be a big hit. It's probably what I'd save up for next. (Screen / Projector / media). I do sub in at a local club now and then, but I don't need to bring any of my own gear for that, and with how my profit in general works out, it'd take me 2 years to "save" the 10k for a system I really could compete with some of the other outfits in the area at that point. It'd sooner come from just taking a tax return or some such investment and convincing the wife to let me put it into the "business". I really don't see myself fighting for weddings / proms in the area right now, as at this point I prefer to stick to the stressless bar/party scene, and occasional club night.

For lighting, I do have a ADJ Dekkar LED light, along with a micro galaxian that at least add some atmosphere to the smallish rooms I'm usually in. I wouldn't mind expanding them at all, but of all the things I feel like I'm missing right now, bass is #1 for the way my music tastes (and requests) have been going.

I would like to look into the projector/screen setup more as well, but that's going to be a bit further down the line, and as I haven't even really begun to research it yet I would rather keep this thread about the speakers and the best configuration I can manage with what I have.  I feel like a new sub (or 2 if I must) would let me be happy with where my system is at currently and then progress to the bigger steps, if I need to at that point. Otherwise I'll just let this system live it's life out until I no longer enjoy doing what I'm doing or no longer wanted around to do it.

With that said, what WOULD be the sub of choice these days to get a similar bang for the buck to the older LS808?
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Richard Turner on May 15, 2014, 09:39:06 AM
as for comparison to the 808 passive sub, well it works really well, is decently efficient and the rear loading horn scoop thing just works well.

Its just that basically the box, original variant was released in 1994, possibly 92 and 10.3 cu ft weighing 120 lbs so in the grand scheme of things they are big old and heavy, but with a street price ~$725 they do fit the bill so far as output per dollar spent.

I've got 4 of them and 4 working together is a nice PA for most mid size rooms/half gym teen dance etc.

If you were interested in paying the freight I have 4 old SW800 boxes sitting in storage they have drivers in them but likely are nearing time for a recone as some of the cloth surrounds on the original rcf drivers are developing cracking, which can happen on a 20 year old driver.I'd take $500 on the 4 of them, you take care of the logistics.
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Lee McClintock on May 15, 2014, 01:57:00 PM
as for comparison to the 808 passive sub, well it works really well, is decently efficient and the rear loading horn scoop thing just works well.

Its just that basically the box, original variant was released in 1994, possibly 92 and 10.3 cu ft weighing 120 lbs so in the grand scheme of things they are big old and heavy, but with a street price ~$725 they do fit the bill so far as output per dollar spent.

I've got 4 of them and 4 working together is a nice PA for most mid size rooms/half gym teen dance etc.

If you were interested in paying the freight I have 4 old SW800 boxes sitting in storage they have drivers in them but likely are nearing time for a recone as some of the cloth surrounds on the original rcf drivers are developing cracking, which can happen on a 20 year old driver.I'd take $500 on the 4 of them, you take care of the logistics.

Thanks for the offer to consider, I will definitely do a bit of research on those and the reconing process, I'm not even sure who around me would do that sort of thing. As far as newer subs go, what's your impression on the net ETX-18SP? Spec-sheet wise, I think they seem pretty nice overall, but being so new there's hardly any reviews out there yet (And would take some serious convincing due to the price) I could -possibly- swing one of those and something like the pa, although I might not need it at that point with their built in DSP capabilities. Just wondering if a single ETX would be comparable to a single ls808, or more beneficial for down the road a bit if I added a second one. The lower response on them does intrigue me for the styles of music I've been playing.
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Lee McClintock on May 16, 2014, 04:35:24 PM
And actually, some food for thought if you feel like it, but what sort of system would you put together today with a 10k budget?
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Richard Turner on May 16, 2014, 08:01:54 PM
And actually, some food for thought if you feel like it, but what sort of system would you put together today with a 10k budget?

It would really depend on the size of rooms and if it was solely used for pre recorded playback or if it had to pull double duty for bands or human voice as well

One local guy here bought 2 of the bose L1model 2 with B2 bass unit, $2429x2= $4860
 it works for him and it doubles as his PA for doing classical guitar/singing shows

for dj add on real midi controller($1800 cased) or mixer cdj set up, a macbook ($1800 cased with full apple support) $400 per year for record pool

a few lights stands+truss, speaker stands (or sub in projector and screen), cases, some AC and signal wire I doubt you would have any change left and you still are running an MI grade system.
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Scott Olewiler on May 17, 2014, 08:50:35 AM
Quote
With that said, what WOULD be the sub of choice these days to get a similar bang for the buck to the older LS808?

I've searched and searched myself and have come to the conclusion that there is none at the same or even close price point if you're talking about just SPL. (Probably why they're still making and selling them) I actually just heard one of the powered models under two ELX115Ps on a trip to the Bahamas just 2 weeks ago and the combination sounded very good. I assume the passive version of both speakers would sound the same.

I own 2 LS808s and they are not a very "musical" box, work much better for DJing than live sound and can't imagine you'd be disappointed in them for DJ work just be aware that there are better sounding subs out there, just none that I have found that will get even close to the SPL level of these at a close price point. Probably have to buy 2 mid-priced dual 18" cabs to equal volume of one LS808.

For prerecorded music they really bring the kick drum out in the mix, so much so that , IMHO it sounds more like a live kick than a recorded one. I also do a lot of live sound, so I do have a solid reference point. However your bass and keys will not "pop" quite as much as they would in newer more musical cabs. People have often referred to them as a one note box and that's a pretty accurate statement. They are definitely tuned for kick drum and kick drum only.

Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Lee McClintock on May 17, 2014, 11:14:58 AM
It would really depend on the size of rooms and if it was solely used for pre recorded playback or if it had to pull double duty for bands or human voice as well

One local guy here bought 2 of the bose L1model 2 with B2 bass unit, $2429x2= $4860
 it works for him and it doubles as his PA for doing classical guitar/singing shows

for dj add on real midi controller($1800 cased) or mixer cdj set up, a macbook ($1800 cased with full apple support) $400 per year for record pool

a few lights stands+truss, speaker stands (or sub in projector and screen), cases, some AC and signal wire I doubt you would have any change left and you still are running an MI grade system.

Thanks again, will look at the Bose setup, not really familiar with them at all, but that's the first I've seen them suggested for a mobile bar/party DJ. Already have the controllers / tt's (2x Numark v7's, Pioneer DDJ-SX and 2 1200MK2's) and the MBP, along with the pool subscriptions that fit my current needs. Really, for my current gigs I don't feel like I need to replace everything, just enhance a bit, then maybe add some projector/visuals like you mentioned to be in a "good place". I do appreciate the feedback though.
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Lee McClintock on May 17, 2014, 11:20:57 AM
I've searched and searched myself and have come to the conclusion that there is none at the same or even close price point if you're talking about just SPL. (Probably why they're still making and selling them) I actually just heard one of the powered models under two ELX115Ps on a trip to the Bahamas just 2 weeks ago and the combination sounded very good. I assume the passive version of both speakers would sound the same.

I own 2 LS808s and they are not a very "musical" box, work much better for DJing than live sound and can't imagine you'd be disappointed in them for DJ work just be aware that there are better sounding subs out there, just none that I have found that will get even close to the SPL level of these at a close price point. Probably have to buy 2 mid-priced dual 18" cabs to equal volume of one LS808.

For prerecorded music they really bring the kick drum out in the mix, so much so that , IMHO it sounds more like a live kick than a recorded one. I also do a lot of live sound, so I do have a solid reference point. However your bass and keys will not "pop" quite as much as they would in newer more musical cabs. People have often referred to them as a one note box and that's a pretty accurate statement. They are definitely tuned for kick drum and kick drum only.

That's what I figured overall. I wish I could find somewhere/someone local to a/b the LS80x's to the new ETX-18SP's to compare, but even if the ETX's were "close enough", I could still get 2 808's for the price of one ETX-18SP. It would really come down to see if one ETX-18Sp was a big enough improvement over my single MRX-518S(I'm thinking it will be), to make that work for now until I could add a second one. Pretty tough choices for me. Really, with the styles of music I'm playing lately, I'm really interested in hearing it in a sub with a lower response than the 808's to see just what I might be missing. On paper the ETX's look pretty sweet all around.
Title: Re: Looking for advice on upgrading my mobile gear (newbie)
Post by: Richard Turner on May 17, 2014, 06:28:36 PM
I wouldn't recommend the bose stuff for bar dj work, it was just an example of how to make a pile of money smaller. That said if you had wedding corporate, restaurant chill music work clients seem to like the thin little stick setup. renkus heinz and k array would be 2 pro systems on the same idea. but more $$$

The ls808/801p are ideal for pounding out club music all night long if you have the truck to move them but there again, 1 is meh, 2 is ok, 4 will move some air in a decent size room.