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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Tim Hite on November 04, 2018, 12:50:13 PM
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Going through some growing pains here. . .
I've been doing manual equipment lists when dropping off gear for rentals but it's sub-optimal. I recently did a film shoot and rented out a bunch of gear from my home studio for a couple days for set dressing. I was on set working but gear got shuffled and comingled during the course of setting up shots. I ended up walking off the shoot without a couple pairs of studio monitors. The gear got found but I had no labels on anything and I'd like to figure out a solution for the future and for the rest of my inventory.
We are still two man shop so I don't know that putting in a full bar code scanner system is the right move yet, but I'd like to put something on my gear to ID things. Also I'd like to have company ID on a label to help people return any missing gear in the future.
I guess the question is, what is the best process for this?
Bar code tags?
QR Code tags?
Separate company info stickers?
Where to source them?
Something that interfaces with rental management software that I don't have yet?
Things are taking off, gigs are getting bigger and I'm slowly getting buried in paperwork doing quotes and invoices manually using Apple Numbers and Pages and emailing PDF's.
I know that all these functions SHOULD be integrated, but is there a cost effective way to do it for a smaller operator ?
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Going through some growing pains here. . .
I've been doing manual equipment lists when dropping off gear for rentals but it's sub-optimal. I recently did a film shoot and rented out a bunch of gear from my home studio for a couple days for set dressing. I was on set working but gear got shuffled and comingled during the course of setting up shots. I ended up walking off the shoot without a couple pairs of studio monitors. The gear got found but I had no labels on anything and I'd like to figure out a solution for the future and for the rest of my inventory.
We are still two man shop so I don't know that putting in a full bar code scanner system is the right move yet, but I'd like to put something on my gear to ID things. Also I'd like to have company ID on a label to help people return any missing gear in the future.
I guess the question is, what is the best process for this?
Bar code tags?
QR Code tags?
Separate company info stickers?
Where to source them?
Something that interfaces with rental management software that I don't have yet?
Things are taking off, gigs are getting bigger and I'm slowly getting buried in paperwork doing quotes and invoices manually using Apple Numbers and Pages and emailing PDF's.
I know that all these functions SHOULD be integrated, but is there a cost effective way to do it for a smaller operator ?
Have you looked at rentman.com?
It's everything I had hoped our open soirce project would be (except free). Modern amd browser based.
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
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Asset tags are essential even if you don't have them integrated with software, other than maybe a database (even a spreadsheet) to help keep track of repairs and warranty status.
We've generally gotten our tags from Metalcraft, but more recently are printing our own on a P-Touch printer with a custom report in our rental software (HireTrack NX). The nice thing about printing your own is that you can make several copies (in different sizes even) of the same serialized tag to put in several locations.
Cables all get custom-printed velcro ties from Bardsco (they're sort of a rep for Cord-Lox?), and also most of them get custom-printed heatshrink from Conquest. The heatshrink also helps implement a color code for cable lengths.
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Asset tags are essential even if you don't have them integrated with software, other than maybe a database (even a spreadsheet) to help keep track of repairs and warranty status.
We've generally gotten our tags from Metalcraft, but more recently are printing our own on a P-Touch printer with a custom report in our rental software (HireTrack NX). The nice thing about printing your own is that you can make several copies (in different sizes even) of the same serialized tag to put in several locations.
Cables all get custom-printed velcro ties from Bardsco (they're sort of a rep for Cord-Lox?), and also most of them get custom-printed heatshrink from Conquest. The heatshrink also helps implement a color code for cable lengths.
Agree, asset tags on everything(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181104/f7f179c2809ff8089c243704fa8eeed4.jpg)
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
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Agree, asset tags on everything(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181104/f7f179c2809ff8089c243704fa8eeed4.jpg)
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
I'm not sure that sort of obvious labeling on a mic would fly for corporate work. I've never worked a corporate gig where labeling that obvious (and un-camera-friendly) would fly. Most other equipment is pretty easy to label though. For some mics you can label inside them or just put a dab of colored paint (or nail polish) in the middle of the three pins of the XLR. Some shops use an engraver to etch a small identifier into the shell of mics that have no other option too.
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I'm not sure that sort of obvious labeling on a mic would fly for corporate work. I've never worked a corporate gig where labeling that obvious (and un-camera-friendly) would fly. Most other equipment is pretty easy to label though. For some mics you can label inside them or just put a dab of colored paint (or nail polish) in the middle of the three pins of the XLR. Some shops use an engraver to etch a small identifier into the shell of mics that have no other option too.
The qlx-d is labeled in the battery compartment. You are right, if I needed to bring wired mics to a gig with IMAG this would be an issue.
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20 years ago we put smal stickers on the outside, and put uv markings on the inside. Sometimes we engraved things (avalon, foucusrite etc) on the frame. Point being is: mark it obviously, but always have a hidden marking.
The same company has now rfid tags, as much as possible.
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I used stick on labels for years with my company name, phone, logo and they were easily peeled off. Customers complained that the labels on mics looked ugly on camera so those came off first. Eventually we decided on the KISS principle. Everything too small for a stencil is marked with paint markers.
LINK (https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=sharpie+paint+markers&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=241913078144&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6145101503384221603&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007536&hvtargid=kwd-1683734040&ref=pd_sl_5b4quu7gid_e_p38)
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I looked at Rentman a while ago but it doesn't look like it will integrate with quickbooks. Currently looking at Intellievent but that's super spendy. Also looking at RentalPoint, which does what I want but I'd need to set up hosting for the package.
Taking another look at rentman and will email them to see how they integrate with QB and CC payment processing, since Square isn't cutting the mustard for deposits, either.
Have you looked at rentman.com?
It's everything I had hoped our open soirce project would be (except free). Modern amd browser based.
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
I'll have to look into UV marking equipment for visible gear like mics and stands. That would be an elegant solution that I can inspect without even having to touch the gear in someone else bag or case.
20 years ago we put smal stickers on the outside, and put uv markings on the inside. Sometimes we engraved things (avalon, foucusrite etc) on the frame. Point being is: mark it obviously, but always have a hidden marking.
The same company has now rfid tags, as much as possible.
I've about had it with Rip-tie velcro stuff. I much prefer tie line and you can't beat the price. Custom printed colored heat shrink would be great, the length ID thing is a nice touch. Will look into pricing.
Cables all get custom-printed velcro ties from Bardsco (they're sort of a rep for Cord-Lox?), and also most of them get custom-printed heatshrink from Conquest. The heatshrink also helps implement a color code for cable lengths.
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(http://www.trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2014/03/full-16020-206498-image.jpg)
Agree, asset tags on everything(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181104/f7f179c2809ff8089c243704fa8eeed4.jpg)
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
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The qlx-d is labeled in the battery compartment. You are right, if I needed to bring wired mics to a gig with IMAG this would be an issue.
We do try to squeeze the tags inside a mic whenever possible. That's gotten easier with printing labels in-house; the guy doing the labels even managed to do one that'll carry a barcode and fit in between the XLR pins.
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(http://www.trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2014/03/full-16020-206498-image.jpg)
Haha...More for our control and easy identification on joint gigs.
I pulled this out of a mic kit I happened to have in my car. The guys could do a better job of putting the labels on straight.
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I get it.
I left my pair of PMC monitors behind at a job because I didn't inventory things off and on the truck. Lesson learned.
Having dealt with US Government property books in the past, I feel like I should have a good plan in place walking into this task. I know I'm going to be adding a RMS software package shortly, and I may as well start integrating now.
Are you guys using barcode guns and cell phones to scan gear in and out?
Are you using pre-packed road cases with set inventories of gear?
I already feel like I'm going to end up buying a lot of stuff twice to manage the whole affair. . .I can't even figure out what size cases to standardize on right now.
Haha...More for our control and easy identification on joint gigs.
I pulled this out of a mic kit I happened to have in my car. The guys could do a better job of putting the labels on straight.
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We went down the road of FLEX. Its not cheap, but its a beast and does what you need it to. Integrates with Quickbooks too.
We have barcode scanners and most items are barcoded. SDC and hand-held mics are tricky, are you want them barcoded but want them to still look tidy.
I've seen some companies use micro barcodes and stick them between pins 2&3 in the XLR chassis.
You can build racks temporarily or permanently, so you don't have to scan everything in a rack overtime, just scan the flightcase and the system know's what's in side.
I've used a few different software platforms and FLEX is far from perfect, but it seems the most logical to me.
However with all these programs, they're only as good as the people operating them.
If you don't scan something out, the whole system can collapse, so getting these systems might seem like a good idea on paper, but be prepared to have to hire someone, just to run the scanning/warehouse side of things.
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We went down the road of FLEX. Its not cheap, but its a beast and does what you need it to. Integrates with Quickbooks too.
We have barcode scanners and most items are barcoded. SDC and hand-held mics are tricky, are you want them barcoded but want them to still look tidy.
I've seen some companies use micro barcodes and stick them between pins 2&3 in the XLR chassis.
You can build racks temporarily or permanently, so you don't have to scan everything in a rack overtime, just scan the flightcase and the system know's what's in side.
I've used a few different software platforms and FLEX is far from perfect, but it seems the most logical to me.
However with all these programs, they're only as good as the people operating them.
If you don't scan something out, the whole system can collapse, so getting these systems might seem like a good idea on paper, but be prepared to have to hire someone, just to run the scanning/warehouse side of things.
This is very helpful info. We're in the market for something exactly like this.
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Revising this topic as we never discussed what people are using for barcode printers.
We purchased a Zebra GX420t but are having an absolute bear of a time getting it to work properly. Flex recommended it, but was little help after we purchased it and started having issues.
Curious if there is a printer that better suits our needs and isn't so difficult to use.
Any first hand experiences or recommendations?
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I've gone to myassettag.com and ordered a sample pack sent out. There are a couple dozen options for tags. They can all be custom sized. Prices from 50¢ to $3+ per tag
I am still plagued with indecision. Will likely end up ordering more than one sort of tag. Trying to work out number scheme.
Revising this topic as we never discussed what people are using for barcode printers.
We purchased a Zebra GX420t but are having an absolute bear of a time getting it to work properly. Flex recommended it, but was little help after we purchased it and started having issues.
Curious if there is a printer that better suits our needs and isn't so difficult to use.
Any first hand experiences or recommendations?
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Trying to work out number scheme.
Tim, I'm far from having a dog in this fight but I do have an opinion about numbers from numerous encounters with inventory and manufacturing control systems over the years: "Smart numbers" -- aren't. Pretty much every attempt at encoding extra information in a numbering scheme eventually fails for reasons including fields that are too small, un-thought-of categories that are relevant, irrelevant categories, and adding more physical storage locations in a warehouse in numerical order. (I kid you not. I worked at a place where whenever a new part was added they needed to move all the bins higher than that part number to insert it on the shelves :o )
Numbers are cheap. Use them as arbitrary unique identifiers, with a check-sum or other redundancy built in. Use computers to give them meaning.
--Frank
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Revising this topic as we never discussed what people are using for barcode printers.
We purchased a Zebra GX420t but are having an absolute bear of a time getting it to work properly. Flex recommended it, but was little help after we purchased it and started having issues.
Curious if there is a printer that better suits our needs and isn't so difficult to use.
I'm going to be using Flex when I finally sign up for it. I'm still working on the back end infrastructure (ensuring everything is labeled, and then building their inventory import spreadsheet). I don't want to waste my 60-day free trial!
I ordered my labels from Electronic Imaging Materials. Pricing was good (I think it was $76 per thousand) and printing/delivery was fast. I went with "partial-preprinted," so they put my company name in color at the top, and the lower half is white space for printing the barcode/number. I can also print anything else I want in that space, so it makes it easy to label other things just to show ownership. [I did NOT order labels with the asset number/barcode already printed on them- if I had, I could have skipped buying the printer. I made this decision because a) not everything that's in my inventory spreadsheet that's been numbered since, say, 2004 or so, is going to be tagged now, and b) being able to print labels on demand means if one gets damaged, it's easy to replace.]
They sold me the printer as well, and that printer came with BarTender UltraLite for printing the barcodes. It installed fast and is very easy to use. [I wanted to get started on labeling right away, even before signing up with Flex. Also, Flex needs an open port on your network's firewall, another company owner told me he had problems making *that* work, so I didn't want that hassle. This way, I'm also not dependent on having an internet connection.]
Hit me up if you'd like contact information for EIM.
-Ray
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I'm with you on the BS "smart numbers". I just need a couple different styles/sizes of tags for different sized gear, so I'm trying to work it out so I don't trip myself up while ordering pre-numbered tags.
I already shot my invoice numbering in the foot and had to recover.
Tim, I'm far from having a dog in this fight but I do have an opinion about numbers from numerous encounters with inventory and manufacturing control systems over the years: "Smart numbers" -- aren't. Pretty much every attempt at encoding extra information in a numbering scheme eventually fails for reasons including fields that are too small, un-thought-of categories that are relevant, irrelevant categories, and adding more physical storage locations in a warehouse in numerical order. (I kid you not. I worked at a place where whenever a new part was added they needed to move all the bins higher than that part number to insert it on the shelves :o )
Numbers are cheap. Use them as arbitrary unique identifiers, with a check-sum or other redundancy built in. Use computers to give them meaning.
--Frank
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I'm glad to see this thread, I have also been looking for a good label solution. I'm not yet sold on bar code and scanning, as it is so labor intensive, but have been looking for good asset labels. I have some labeled shrink wrap which is great, and PAL labels for cases which also work well.
I have been using Current RMS for almost two years now. It is a reasonably priced, cloud based system for rental inventory management. It does a good job for my planning and scheduling, makes good looking quotes and invoices, generates pick lists for shows, etc... I plan to integrate it with quickbooks this year as well, will see how that goes. Data entry is a lot of work with any of these programs, and doing it accurately pays off. I am really glad to have the "reports" information, detailing lots of useful info like product rental income, customer income, sub rental data. I also like being able to access it from my phone's browser, even if the interface on the phone is a bit crammed.
Flex looked very good to me as well, though a bit more expensive.
Thanks for all of your label suggestions, I am looking forward to checking into them.
Cheers,
Nils
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I'm going to be using Flex when I finally sign up for it. I'm still working on the back end infrastructure (ensuring everything is labeled, and then building their inventory import spreadsheet). I don't want to waste my 60-day free trial!
.........
Also, Flex needs an open port on your network's firewall, another company owner told me he had problems making *that* work, so I didn't want that hassle. This way, I'm also not dependent on having an internet connection.]
We went down the same path and were very excited for Flex. Signed up, ordered the printer and barcode scanners they recommended. Started getting everything entered in the system. However we could not get the printer to work with Flex whatsoever. They're support pretty much told us they couldn't help anymore and we needed to hire an IT person, although several of us that were working with it are arguably pretty decent at IT.
Anyway, we still weren't out any money on the software itself, so we started looking at Current. Much more modern featureset and user interface. Definitely fits our workflow better, so we switched. Happy we did. Cheaper, too! I've almost got the Zebra GX420T that Flex recommended we buy (but then wouldn't help with) fully functional with Current (still have a few sizing issues to figure out). Hopefully soon we'll be ready to barcode.
EIM's labels do look pretty fantastic and certainly more durable. I'm very curious how the printing process would work.
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I'm glad to see this thread, I have also been looking for a good label solution. I'm not yet sold on bar code and scanning, as it is so labor intensive, but have been looking for good asset labels. I have some labeled shrink wrap which is great, and PAL labels for cases which also work well.
I have been using Current RMS for almost two years now. It is a reasonably priced, cloud based system for rental inventory management. It does a good job for my planning and scheduling, makes good looking quotes and invoices, generates pick lists for shows, etc... I plan to integrate it with quickbooks this year as well, will see how that goes. Data entry is a lot of work with any of these programs, and doing it accurately pays off. I am really glad to have the "reports" information, detailing lots of useful info like product rental income, customer income, sub rental data. I also like being able to access it from my phone's browser, even if the interface on the phone is a bit crammed.
Flex looked very good to me as well, though a bit more expensive.
Thanks for all of your label suggestions, I am looking forward to checking into them.
Cheers,
Nils
It’s amusing that a computerized solution is also labor intensive.
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It’s amusing that a computerized solution is also labor intensive.
I was working at Tencor Instruments back around 1980 when we instituted a computerized material requirements planning (inventory and manufacturing control and documentation) system. We had been all paper prior to that. (This was not the place with the stupid smart numbers.)
We hired a really great consultant to get us set up. As the automated system was going to impose certain changes on our business process he had us get the entire new system up and running ON PAPER before cutting over to the computer. This was a painful few weeks for pretty much everyone in the company. The entire engineering staff was busy filling out forms for every part and sub-assembly. But when the day came to throw the switch it went off pretty much without a hitch.
I know this is not terribly relevant to today's situations, but it's something to think about. The business process and the system need to fit and people need to understand how it works. Later I was involved in far less successful integrations between business processes and automated systems at other companies.
--Frank
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The problem with any powerful software, is it isn't simple.
A half-assed implementation equals a half-assed system.
As Frank noted, take the time up front to do it right.
This absolutely fits the 'buy' once cry once motto.
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It’s amusing that a computerized solution is also labor intensive.
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Rob, I agree... we simply shift the work elsewhere sometimes. However, once the products are entered, I have found that the entire quote and invoice process is so much faster. It used to take me forever to create quotes and invoices manually using templates that I had built in Pages. And after all that, there was no data to show. Here I spend time entering products, but the wealth of data generated is incredible. Rather than having a gut feeling of how much return any piece of equipment has in a given timeframe, it is easy to generate a report. Also, scheduling that equipment is no longer a clusterf*** of google calendar entries.
So, yes, we shifted the work and added some to it even, but with a ton of benefit.
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I know this is not terribly relevant to today's situations, but it's something to think about. The business process and the system need to fit and people need to understand how it works. Later I was involved in far less successful integrations between business processes and automated systems at other companies.
--Frank
This hearkens back to botched SAP R3 migrations in the 90's that would shut entire organizations down for a couple weeks because the consultants didn't get the business processes running correctly before implementation.
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Rob, I agree... we simply shift the work elsewhere sometimes. However, once the products are entered, I have found that the entire quote and invoice process is so much faster. It used to take me forever to create quotes and invoices manually using templates that I had built in Pages. And after all that, there was no data to show. Here I spend time entering products, but the wealth of data generated is incredible. Rather than having a gut feeling of how much return any piece of equipment has in a given timeframe, it is easy to generate a report. Also, scheduling that equipment is no longer a clusterf*** of google calendar entries.
That's the key - it's a big pain in the butt to set up, but the payoff is that most things get easier and it'll scale up without much drama. If you're always going to be the company with one system in one truck, don't bother. If you want to make money off *all* your gear, implement a proper system.
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I've had good luck with Brother P-Touch desktop printers. If you have already established bar codes in your system you can easily print them, or create new bar codes and print your own asset tags with individual bar codes on each. It also allows you to create different size labels to fit different size pieces of gear. However I have not been able to have Hiretrack or Flex print directly to the Brother printer.