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Title: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 29, 2020, 11:04:42 am
I'm taking advantage of my dead time to finally incorporate the XR18 I purchased 6 months ago into our set-up. I will be operating it from my keyboard location and would prefer a simple control surface that I can control the levels on the first 8 channels. Small and simple, as we don't make any changes during a gig, other than a few level changes. Replacing a Yamaha powered mixer that has been a workhorse for 7 years, if that helps give you an idea of the simplicity that we are used to.
Cost is also an issue, but really want something compact and simple.
Thanks.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on April 29, 2020, 11:28:02 am
iPad? Android tablet? There's manufacturer and 3rd party apps for controlling that device...
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Steve M Smith on April 29, 2020, 11:57:13 am
Touchscreen monitor and Raspberry Pi.


Steve.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Robert Lofgren on April 29, 2020, 12:21:00 pm
Tactile surface? X-Touch
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on April 29, 2020, 12:28:33 pm
Tactile surface? X-Touch

Bingo.
I expect others will work, too, but keeping it in-brand should mean the most seamless operation.

Chris
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on April 29, 2020, 06:24:58 pm
+1 on X-Touch.
I use it as a side-car sometimes with a M32R.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 29, 2020, 07:08:07 pm
Bingo.
I expect others will work, too, but keeping it in-brand should mean the most seamless operation.

Chris

Not sure it's yet shipping with the latest firmware (mine had to be updated right out of the box).  I damn near bricked my X-Touch -twice - but the last time was the charm and now it works with my X32 Rack and our shops M32r.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Alec Spence on April 29, 2020, 09:13:07 pm
If you want faders, then the X-Touch really is the only way to go without getting very geeky and home-made, and it works solidly.  The downside is the cost (which is a factor for you) and the fact that it's still primarily a recording controller, rather than a live controller.

If you don't really *need* faders, then any touchscreen device is fine, including (probably) the one you keep in your pocket.  Cost - negligable.  I'm certainly happy enough using a tablet, or even phone, for the odd mid-performance tweaks in a band setup.  Perhaps get a holder to mount it on your mic stand for increased accessibility.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 29, 2020, 09:25:06 pm
Will the X-Touch Mini work with the XR18? All i need is volume controls for chs 1-8 and a master fader. I will have my laptop set up, but the only "tweaking" I really need is just volume controls.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on April 29, 2020, 09:40:51 pm
Will the X-Touch Mini work with the XR18? All i need is volume controls for chs 1-8 and a master fader. I will have my laptop set up, but the only "tweaking" I really need is just volume controls.

If you are a Windows user, then this is the exact thing you need.

https://github.com/Shuptuu/TheLink/ (https://github.com/Shuptuu/TheLink/)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 29, 2020, 09:46:21 pm
If you are a Windows user, then this is the exact thing you need.

https://github.com/Shuptuu/TheLink/ (https://github.com/Shuptuu/TheLink/)
I need this software to have the X-Touch Mini talk to XR18?
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on April 29, 2020, 10:03:36 pm
I need this software to have the X-Touch Mini talk to XR18?

Kinda.

The XR18 has limited MIDI implementation and the X-Touch Mini also doesn't have a 5 pin MIDI port on it, so this presents some challenges.  In short, the X-Touch HAS to go through a computer to get to the XR18 for just cabling reasons alone.  And then you still need to get them to talk the same language.

You CAN overcome the obstacles, but you'll need something in your computer to at least communicate the MIDI from your X-Touch through to your XR18 and you'll likely have to edit the MIDI controllers in the X-Touch which can only be done with a Windows only program from Behringer.

This little utility seems to do all the heavy lifting so long as you're on Windows.  It takes MIDI messages from the XTouch and converts those to the OSC messages that the XR18 wants to see which gives you the ability to control ANY parameter you want with Any of the controls you want.  And it's basically turn key.

Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 29, 2020, 11:50:54 pm
Kinda.

The XR18 has limited MIDI implementation and the X-Touch Mini also doesn't have a 5 pin MIDI port on it, so this presents some challenges.  In short, the X-Touch HAS to go through a computer to get to the XR18 for just cabling reasons alone.  And then you still need to get them to talk the same language.

You CAN overcome the obstacles, but you'll need something in your computer to at least communicate the MIDI from your X-Touch through to your XR18 and you'll likely have to edit the MIDI controllers in the X-Touch which can only be done with a Windows only program from Behringer.

This little utility seems to do all the heavy lifting so long as you're on Windows.  It takes MIDI messages from the XTouch and converts those to the OSC messages that the XR18 wants to see which gives you the ability to control ANY parameter you want with Any of the controls you want.  And it's basically turn key.
Ah, got it. It looks like the X-Touch mini will provide what little functionality I need, so I will check into this as an alternative to the Behringer software. I will be using a laptop via ethernet but I can't make quick level changes while I am playing keys and singing, so a simple controller like the Min is ideal (I hope). thanks.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on April 30, 2020, 01:21:58 am
I'm confused as to why you wouldn't just use your phone or a cheap tablet?
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 30, 2020, 02:40:48 am
I'm confused as to why you wouldn't just use your phone or a cheap tablet?

Must..... Have.... faders.....

You can have my fader bank when you pry my cold dead hands from it...

{is it time for another webinar?}
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Alec Spence on April 30, 2020, 05:46:45 am
Must..... Have.... faders.....
You can have my fader bank when you pry my cold dead hands from it...
Yup, faders are great, and I'd love a tiny/cheap surface with faders, OLED scribble strips & knobs that connected direct to my XR18 with no PC required in the middle.  But hold on, suddenly that surface isn't so small once I've got all I want on it, and it's definitely not cheap.

All of that, much as we all love tactile controls, makes the loss of them an easy compromise taking me straight back to a cheap touchscreen device.  Best of all, with an app like Mixing Station, is that I can even customise the layout to give me exactly what I need in a gig situation - no more, no less.

But, of course, maybe that's just me...
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 30, 2020, 10:08:49 am
Perhaps I should explain WHY I meed a control surface: I am a keyboard/trumpet/flugelhorn player who also sings and is responsible for the sound system. We are  trio w/drum tracks, bass+vocals, keys+horns+vocals, and female vocals only. We use a simple system with a powered mixer, which sits next to me. I rarely make adjustments, and when I do it's slight tweaks to a vocal mic or the master level. I am moving to the Behringer because I want the ability to have better effects, better control over each mic settings, and eventually maybe set up some presets, but that's not on the near horizon. We maintain our own balance the old-fashioned way, by listening to each other, so mixing is not an issue.
I can't use a phone, it's too small for me to read or operate. Can't use a tablet because I can't play keyboards and try to tweak a setting at the same time, but I CAN reach over and tweak a knob. The only changes I typically make are to the master level (venue manager gives me the "hand signal" from the back of the room to turn down) and sometimes a vocal mic, depending upon whether we have a sub for the bassist.
I don't need a wireless device. I am the only person who makes adjustments, and the speaker(s) are behind us so we hear the mix from where we are. We only use one small monitor for the female singer, which has only her in it, and is not controlled by the mixer.
I will have a laptop (obviously) so I can make adjustments  to parameters other than levels, but I won't be doing this while playing.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on April 30, 2020, 11:55:46 am
Must..... Have.... faders.....

You can have my fader bank when you pry my cold dead hands from it...

{is it time for another webinar?}

Duane's application is the classic example where there is no replacement for hardware.  It doesn't need to be fancy, but it needs to be a quick grab.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Riley Casey on April 30, 2020, 12:27:17 pm
If you can live with faders and mutes being the only hardware controls you have on the X Touch compact controller and let all the other functions live on a touchscreen then this thread might be of interest.

https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Recording/X-Touch-Compact-with-X-Air-XR18/td-p/254719

Also while the Behringer provided app is reasonably good this app is well worth a few bucks for those with power user aspirations.

https://dev-core.org/mixing-station/
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 30, 2020, 12:32:27 pm
Duane's application is the classic example where there is no replacement for hardware.  It doesn't need to be fancy, but it needs to be a quick grab.
Yup, faders are great, and I'd love a tiny/cheap surface with faders, OLED scribble strips & knobs that connected direct to my XR18 with no PC required in the middle.  But hold on, suddenly that surface isn't so small once I've got all I want on it, and it's definitely not cheap.

All of that, much as we all love tactile controls, makes the loss of them an easy compromise taking me straight back to a cheap touchscreen device.  Best of all, with an app like Mixing Station, is that I can even customise the layout to give me exactly what I need in a gig situation - no more, no less.

But, of course, maybe that's just me...

Yes, and knowing what Duane is doing perhaps my reply came off as negative, which was not my intention.  Some things cannot be replaced with a tablet or phone.  Yet.

Read up and you'll see I own an X-Touch and use it to expand control of M32r and X32Rack.  Because some stuff just needs physical controls (or more of 'em).
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Dan Mortensen on April 30, 2020, 02:36:04 pm
The only changes I typically make are to the master level (venue manager gives me the "hand signal" from the back of the room to turn down) and sometimes a vocal mic, depending upon whether we have a sub for the bassist.

Although you bought an XR18 and want to make it work, from this paragraph it seems like an X32Rack would be more to the point.

There is a visible master knob that you can reach over and adjust, and you can set up it's one control knob to the on the channel you are most likely to adjust, and set up your channels so any others you might adjust are adjacent to it.

That doesn't help you with your XR18 though; use that at home for rehearsals?

Good luck.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Robert Lofgren on April 30, 2020, 02:59:23 pm
The xr/mr has a headphone output that can be used to feed the speakers. The benefit is the analog output level control. It might be all that you need 95% of the time...
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 30, 2020, 08:07:55 pm
Although you bought an XR18 and want to make it work, from this paragraph it seems like an X32Rack would be more to the point.

There is a visible master knob that you can reach over and adjust, and you can set up it's one control knob to the on the channel you are most likely to adjust, and set up your channels so any others you might adjust are adjacent to it.

That doesn't help you with your XR18 though; use that at home for rehearsals?

Good luck.
If I were going to spend that much money I'd just purchase the Producer. I only need 7-8 channels, AND I purchased the XR18 for $ 440, which I had to convince myself it was really worth the investment, considering we've never had an issue with the Yamaha powered mixer we've been using for 7 years. I did modify the speakers we use to add power amps, and we used them for the first time 2 weeks ago, so I am looking forward to the next step.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 30, 2020, 08:10:22 pm
The xr/mr has a headphone output that can be used to feed the speakers. The benefit is the analog output level control. It might be all that you need 95% of the time...
Actually thought about this, but decided that the $80 an X-Touch mini would cost, plus the fact that I can set it on my keyboard stand, would be justified.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on April 30, 2020, 08:45:34 pm
Actually thought about this, but decided that the $80 an X-Touch mini would cost, plus the fact that I can set it on my keyboard stand, would be justified.

I think the little Xtouch mini will be perfect for your application. All the other tiny controllers have non motorized faders, which means taht when you make a change on the APP, the controllers doesn't reflect the change so when you move the fader on teh controller, the level "jumps" to where the fader is.  The Xouch is knobs with a ring of leds to show position and the little widget i linked to says that it's bidirectional, so the led rings will update even if you make the change on teh App.

It'll likely take a little finagling, but it's what i would go with.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on April 30, 2020, 10:00:45 pm
Brain,
I believe you are correct. I will find out next week. thanks.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on April 30, 2020, 10:48:28 pm
Brain,
I believe you are correct. I will find out next week. thanks.

Do keep us posted.  I've been thinking about getting an XR18 and would like to have a small controller to fit on my webcast/Vlog making desk.  This looks like a great option.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Jay Marr on May 01, 2020, 09:02:38 am
Although you bought an XR18 and want to make it work, from this paragraph it seems like an X32Rack would be more to the point.

There is a visible master knob that you can reach over and adjust, and you can set up it's one control knob to the on the channel you are most likely to adjust, and set up your channels so any others you might adjust are adjacent to it.

That doesn't help you with your XR18 though; use that at home for rehearsals?

Good luck.

I was using an X18 for a short period, and I also wanted a quick 'master fader' adjustment.
Since the X18 didn't have internal Xover filters, I used a DBX analog Xover (1 space rack).
I put it in a 4 space rack with the X18 - done.
The Xover rack had a master input that I could drop down a click if/when I needed immediate access to do so.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 01, 2020, 12:00:53 pm
If you are a Windows user, then this is the exact thing you need.

https://github.com/Shuptuu/TheLink/ (https://github.com/Shuptuu/TheLink/)
Odd choice of language to write an app in... (AutoIt)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on May 01, 2020, 01:30:39 pm
Odd choice of language to write an app in... (AutoIt)

i've no idea what that means.  i haven't actually explored this since i don't have an XR18, XTouch Mini, or Windows computer.  :)

Guess i'll go a googling just 'cause what else have i got going on?
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 01, 2020, 01:44:43 pm
i've no idea what that means.  i haven't actually explored this since i don't have an XR18, XTouch Mini, or Windows computer.  :)

Guess i'll go a googling just 'cause what else have i got going on?
No worries.
I took a look at that link, since that sort of automation stuff interests me, even though I'm not really in the Behringer world. I was curious why it was "Windows Only", especially since it's not even a GUI type application.
AutoIt is a scripting language for Windows (I used it a lot for automating things on Windows back in the day). Not normally used for applications; complex automation that can't be done with batch files, yes, but not normally stand-alone programs. It'd likely be pretty clunky to do a communication app, but obviously this person was able to pull it off!
If it were done in another language, potentially a version that works cross-platform wouldn't be hard to make.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Jon Dees on May 02, 2020, 07:27:30 pm
Actually thought about this, but decided that the $80 an X-Touch mini would cost, plus the fact that I can set it on my keyboard stand, would be justified.

Donít forget that mixing station can act as a USB-MIDI host on Android or iOS/iPadOS. I have used an Akai APC Mini plugged into a Kindle Fire 7 and a Huawei Honor 8 (~2016 Android phone on Android v. 7) with an XR18 quite successfully. This also avoids having to figure out how to re-program the MIDI device. An iPad with the lightning-USB adapter will also work.

If you want something more industrial-grade then the Bome Box can translate MIDI-MIDI or USB-MIDI to MIDI with internal remapping to avoid trying to remap the fader device.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on May 02, 2020, 10:13:37 pm
Donít forget that mixing station can act as a USB-MIDI host on Android or iOS/iPadOS. I have used an Akai APC Mini plugged into a Kindle Fire 7 and a Huawei Honor 8 (~2016 Android phone on Android v. 7) with an XR18 quite successfully. This also avoids having to figure out how to re-program the MIDI device. An iPad with the lightning-USB adapter will also work.

If you want something more industrial-grade then the Bome Box can translate MIDI-MIDI or USB-MIDI to MIDI with internal remapping to avoid trying to remap the fader device.

I had to read this 4 times, but then i got it  i'm a little slow.  You're talking about the Mixing Station app, and yeah, that's super cool.  The original X32 Edit computer app worked like that.  I used it with several different MIDI controllers with good success.  The X32 didn't really "Do" MIDI, but the App did, and then the app talked to the X32.  Easy Peasy.

This is indeed a less complicated solution and i'm always in favor of less complicated.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Dan Richardson on May 03, 2020, 08:09:02 am
Donít forget that mixing station can act as a USB-MIDI host on Android or iOS/iPadOS.

Also on Mac, PC, and Linux. The MIDI Fighter Twister is a pretty ideal controller for an XR. 16 functionally motorized faders and mutes in a super compact form factor, built like a tank.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on May 03, 2020, 12:55:35 pm
Also on Mac, PC, and Linux. The MIDI Fighter Twister is a pretty ideal controller for an XR. 16 functionally motorized faders and mutes in a super compact form factor, built like a tank.

That thing looks very cool.  Just went on my want list.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 03, 2020, 01:23:48 pm
16 functionally motorized faders
Faders? Is there a version with faders too?
All I could see is one with encoders.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 03, 2020, 01:51:43 pm
Faders? Is there a version with faders too?
All I could see is one with encoders.

Same for me, no linear faders seen.  The rest is sufficiently interesting that if I can find $200 in the sofa cushions, I'm in.

Sample trigger, fader, pan...  I'm thinking simple controller for corporate gigs where I'm the mixerguy, DJ, and human interface to the webcast folks...
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on May 03, 2020, 05:01:06 pm
Faders? Is there a version with faders too?
All I could see is one with encoders.

Maybe that's what Dan meant by "16 functionally motorized faders"?

I'm actually MORE interested without the "faders" as anything with 16 faders is gonna be huge and i want very NOT huge.

Pulled the trigger on the XR18 today.  I've got an old Behringer MIDI controller [little guy with 4 knobs and 4 buttons] that i'm gonna try to use at first, but this little 16 knob guy is pretty compelling.

-----Why am i spending MORE money when i'm not making any than when i WAS making some?  :)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 03, 2020, 06:08:37 pm
Maybe that's what Dan meant by "16 functionally motorized faders"?

I'm actually MORE interested without the "faders" as anything with 16 faders is gonna be huge and i want very NOT huge.

Pulled the trigger on the XR18 today.  I've got an old Behringer MIDI controller [little guy with 4 knobs and 4 buttons] that i'm gonna try to use at first, but this little 16 knob guy is pretty compelling.

-----Why am i spending MORE money when i'm not making any than when i WAS making some?  :)

Because now you have time to play with new toys.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  After I pay myself back on the tax hit I took, I'll think about stimulating the economy.  Damn sofa was already cleaned out except for the chump change.  8)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 03, 2020, 08:01:42 pm
Maybe that's what Dan meant by "16 functionally motorized faders"?
I wouldn't think so. Dan's a smart guy. Knows the difference between a fader and an encoder, and there's nothing motorized about these encoders...

Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 04, 2020, 12:02:15 am
Okay, time for the inexperienced to ask the younger and smarter group for some help. Got the X-Touch Mini today (thank you, Seetwater) and I suspect I am missing something. Here's my set-up: XR-18 connected via ethernet to a Toshiba laptop (Win 7); Mini is connected to the laptop via USB. Do I need to do anything else to make the Mini talk to the laptop/XR-18? I am perfectly happy just using the Mini for 8 channels volume only plus the master slider. Thanks.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Dan Richardson on May 04, 2020, 08:38:36 am
Faders? Is there a version with faders too?
All I could see is one with encoders.

Functional equivalent of motorized faders, without the expense or maintenance of motors.
They're endless encoders which are also push switches, with an LED ring to indicate position and color change to indicate state.
I prefer them to linear faders in many ways.
No calibration issues. No dust issues.
No hanging up a fader because my hand was in the wrong place during a page change.
None of that jitter trying to move paired faders.
You can do whatever you want with the controls.
The resolution can be velocity sensitive.
The switches can be toggles or momentary.
The encoders can be center +/- for panpots or EQ gain, with a state indicate for the center position.
USB powered. This and an Ipad Mini running Mixing Station is a fully untethered FOH position.
I have a proof of concept scene built that handles 48 channels of faders and mutes on 3 pages,
plus a single page that does Gain, HPF freq & bypass, Comp thresh & bypass, Pan, and 4 bands of EQ Freq, BW, and Gain, all in a 6" square.
Each page calls up the matching 16 channels in Mixing Station.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Jon Dees on May 04, 2020, 09:10:15 am
Okay, time for the inexperienced to ask the younger and smarter group for some help. Got the X-Touch Mini today (thank you, Seetwater) and I suspect I am missing something. Here's my set-up: XR-18 connected via ethernet to a Toshiba laptop (Win 7); Mini is connected to the laptop via USB. Do I need to do anything else to make the Mini talk to the laptop/XR-18? I am perfectly happy just using the Mini for 8 channels volume only plus the master slider. Thanks.

Easy:
Buy Mixing Station for Windows and use it to translate X-Touch Mini MIDI to XR18 MIDI. No idea if it works on Win7. In the Mixing Station settings you map all functions that you care to from the Mini to the XR18.

Harder:
Use Behringer editor software to edit the profile in the Mini to what the XR18 wants to see and then pass the MIDI thru using a MIDI router, e.g., Soundigy (never used it, just googled it). This would be Ďfreeí in terms of dollars.

I would strongly recommend the easy option. Your time is worth the $20.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on May 04, 2020, 09:19:55 am
Okay, time for the inexperienced to ask the younger and smarter group for some help. Got the X-Touch Mini today (thank you, Seetwater) and I suspect I am missing something. Here's my set-up: XR-18 connected via ethernet to a Toshiba laptop (Win 7); Mini is connected to the laptop via USB. Do I need to do anything else to make the Mini talk to the laptop/XR-18? I am perfectly happy just using the Mini for 8 channels volume only plus the master slider. Thanks.

I think in X-air edit go to setup and under the Audio/Midi tab you need to select something in the Midi config section. I played with this a long time ago and donít remember exactly how to do it. But I am pretty sure you need to have the XR-18 and the Midi device hooked up and on as you have it and then some of the options are able to be changed. 

And you can customize the setting of what the Mini is controlling with X-Touch Edit. I think you may need to not have the XR18 connected when you try and run X-Touch edit.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 04, 2020, 11:03:19 am
I am confused. Do I also need a MIDI cable, or should the laptop-XR18 via ethernet be sufficient? Documentation from Behringer is pathetic.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on May 04, 2020, 11:14:03 am
I am confused. Do I also need a MIDI cable, or should the laptop-XR18 via ethernet be sufficient? Documentation from Behringer is pathetic.

The Mini has a USB cable or connector I canít remember which one it is. That needs to connect to a USB port on your computer. Then from an Ethernet port on your computer to the XR-18. The Mini is controlling the X-Air edit app and the X-Air edit app is controlling your XR18.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 04, 2020, 11:22:37 am
The Mini has a USB cable or connector I canít remember which one it is. That needs to connect to a USB port on your computer. Then from an Ethernet port on your computer to the XR-18. The Mini is controlling the X-Air edit app and the X-Air edit app is controlling your XR18.
That's what I thought, and how I have it hooked up. Should I be using Mackie protocol?
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 04, 2020, 11:40:20 am
Functional equivalent of motorized faders, without the expense or maintenance of motors.
They're endless encoders which are also push switches, with an LED ring to indicate position and color change to indicate state.
I prefer them to linear faders in many ways.
No calibration issues. No dust issues.
No hanging up a fader because my hand was in the wrong place during a page change.
None of that jitter trying to move paired faders.
You can do whatever you want with the controls.
The resolution can be velocity sensitive.
The switches can be toggles or momentary.
The encoders can be center +/- for panpots or EQ gain, with a state indicate for the center position.
USB powered. This and an Ipad Mini running Mixing Station is a fully untethered FOH position.
I have a proof of concept scene built that handles 48 channels of faders and mutes on 3 pages,
plus a single page that does Gain, HPF freq & bypass, Comp thresh & bypass, Pan, and 4 bands of EQ Freq, BW, and Gain, all in a 6" square.
Each page calls up the matching 16 channels in Mixing Station.

So no motorized faders then? ;-)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Craig Hauber on May 04, 2020, 12:45:08 pm
Functional equivalent of motorized faders, without the expense or maintenance of motors.
They're endless encoders which are also push switches, with an LED ring to indicate position and color change to indicate state.
I prefer them to linear faders in many ways.
No calibration issues. No dust issues.
No hanging up a fader because my hand was in the wrong place during a page change.
None of that jitter trying to move paired faders.
You can do whatever you want with the controls.
The resolution can be velocity sensitive.
The switches can be toggles or momentary.
The encoders can be center +/- for panpots or EQ gain, with a state indicate for the center position.
USB powered. This and an Ipad Mini running Mixing Station is a fully untethered FOH position.
I have a proof of concept scene built that handles 48 channels of faders and mutes on 3 pages,
plus a single page that does Gain, HPF freq & bypass, Comp thresh & bypass, Pan, and 4 bands of EQ Freq, BW, and Gain, all in a 6" square.
Each page calls up the matching 16 channels in Mixing Station.
Had a lighting desk years ago with linear endless encoders.  Like little miniature conveyor belts made out of translucent rubber-type material and a row of led's below them.  Kind of surprised I haven't seen something like that show up on modern desks yet. 
Motorized faders have now probably become a cheaper and simpler mass-produced commodity product now (and not the huge clunky expensive mechanisms I remember from flying-fader automation on 80's studio desks.) 
Just easier to give us customers what we expect and want then try to force something new on us.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Jon Dees on May 04, 2020, 01:09:36 pm
That's what I thought, and how I have it hooked up. Should I be using Mackie protocol?

X-Air-Edit does not implement the MIDI fader control that X32-Edit does, so you canít just rely on X-Air-Edit. You have to use another app, like Mixing Station (see above).

No additional cords needed. Mixing Station and X-Air-Edit send all commands over Ethernet (or USB if hooked up).
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 04, 2020, 04:17:49 pm
X-Air-Edit does not implement the MIDI fader control that X32-Edit does, so you canít just rely on X-Air-Edit. You have to use another app, like Mixing Station (see above).

No additional cords needed. Mixing Station and X-Air-Edit send all commands over Ethernet (or USB if hooked up).
Thanks. Seems rather unhelpful for it to not just plug/play with the X-series products, but it is "Behringer".
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 04, 2020, 05:18:08 pm
Well, damn! It seems Mixing Station will only work with Win 10. Both of my laptops have Win 7.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 04, 2020, 06:17:58 pm
Well, damn! It seems Mixing Station will only work with Win 10. Both of my laptops have Win 7.
Wonít run at all on Win7? Thatís unusual.
You could set up a Win10 VM or dual boot?
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 04, 2020, 06:30:11 pm
Wonít run at all on Win7? Thatís unusual.
You could set up a Win10 VM or dual boot?
Haven't dl yet, thought I'd see if there were any other options. Will try it tonight or tomorrow when I have the time to play with it. I know, I know, I should dump win 7, but now is not a good time.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Riley Casey on May 04, 2020, 06:38:12 pm
Don't feel too bad. I still have an install of XP just to be able to talk to my BSS FDS366s.

Haven't dl yet, thought I'd see if there were any other options. Will try it tonight or tomorrow when I have the time to play with it. I know, I know, I should dump win 7, but now is not a good time.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 04, 2020, 07:36:44 pm
Haven't dl yet, thought I'd see if there were any other options. Will try it tonight or tomorrow when I have the time to play with it. I know, I know, I should dump win 7, but now is not a good time.

I have a source of Win 10 Pro OEM licenses in Hong Kong, about $15.  You download Win 10 from Micro$oft, put it on whatever media you need, make that media bootable, and install as an upgrade.  According to a couple of online sources a valid Win 7 key will authorize the new Win 10 install just like it did when M$ was offering the 'free upgrade' over a year ago.  If it doesn't, I know this place in Hong Kong, and I've purchased both Win 10 and M$ Office keys with no problems...
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Russell Ault on May 04, 2020, 07:51:00 pm
I have a source of Win 10 Pro OEM licenses in Hong Kong, about $15.  You download Win 10 from Micro$oft, put it on whatever media you need, make that media bootable, and install as an upgrade.  According to a couple of online sources a valid Win 7 key will authorize the new Win 10 install just like it did when M$ was offering the 'free upgrade' over a year ago.  If it doesn't, I know this place in Hong Kong, and I've purchased both Win 10 and M$ Office keys with no problems...

Just to be clear, though: using an OEM license of a Microsoft product on an existing computer is a violation of the software's licensing terms (buying a license from outside your region might be as well). Whether or not this matters to you is a personal decision.

-Russ
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Jon Dees on May 04, 2020, 08:41:17 pm
Haven't dl yet, thought I'd see if there were any other options. Will try it tonight or tomorrow when I have the time to play with it. I know, I know, I should dump win 7, but now is not a good time.

You can run a Linux VM in VirtualBox to test things out.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 04, 2020, 10:57:45 pm
Just to be clear, though: using an OEM license of a Microsoft product on an existing computer is a violation of the software's licensing terms (buying a license from outside your region might be as well). Whether or not this matters to you is a personal decision.

-Russ

I figure if it was geographically restricted the supplied key would not get activated by M$.  They have that power, ya know. ;)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 05, 2020, 11:04:04 am
Windows 10 is still free. No need to pay unless you need to change the desktop or a few other typically unimportant settings.
https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 05, 2020, 02:15:53 pm
Windows 10 is still free. No need to pay unless you need to change the desktop or a few other typically unimportant settings.
https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/
Thanks for this, Andrew.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on May 05, 2020, 08:11:32 pm
Windows 10 is still free. No need to pay unless you need to change the desktop or a few other typically unimportant settings.
https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/

interesting.  I've got a windows 7 machine that was becoming useless because i didn't have windows 10, but i didn't want to spend any money on it.

definitely looking into this.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 05, 2020, 08:13:14 pm
"just a guy, trying to help"

- Sam Kinnison
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Olivier Merlet on May 08, 2020, 02:57:07 pm
No worries.
I took a look at that link, since that sort of automation stuff interests me, even though I'm not really in the Behringer world. I was curious why it was "Windows Only", especially since it's not even a GUI type application.
AutoIt is a scripting language for Windows (I used it a lot for automating things on Windows back in the day). Not normally used for applications; complex automation that can't be done with batch files, yes, but not normally stand-alone programs. It'd likely be pretty clunky to do a communication app, but obviously this person was able to pull it off!
If it were done in another language, potentially a version that works cross-platform wouldn't be hard to make.

Hi!
I'm the guy who did this app! I agree AutoIt was quite a strange choice of language to write this app at the beginning. But I have to say I discovered by doing it a more powerfull language I though it was! AutoIt 3 is definitely more than just a scripting language.
For the story: I'm a musician/actor/maker with an engineering degree in electronic. I started to write this app for my own needs. I have a Midas MR18. I'm on windows. And I was searching for a way to control my MR18 over the network using a simple midi controller. And I though would be better to have a good interaction with M-AIR Edit acting as the mixer display. AutoIt has been my choice to be able to simulate mouse clicks in the app. And I discovered it was possible to do more! To almost hack M-AIR Edit, and then add a kind of "midi remote control capabilities" to M-AIR Edit. And very easy to write!
AutoIt is not cross platform, windows only. So that's why my app is windows only (which is not a problem for me! ;-)
I did whith what I knew.
I don't know if there's an equivalent on MacOS...
Anyway, at the end, I'm very satisfied with what I done! Matching all my needs: at home in my homestudio, on stage when I'm performing and managing the sound at the same time, and also when I have to manage the sound for small events.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 08, 2020, 05:23:25 pm
Thank you for that info, Shuptuu.

Just a word to the wise - you'll need to change your username to your real name otherwise this thread will get locked. Please do that, as I'd love to hear more from you!

It all makes sense now that you had to "remote control" the editor to make this work. I didn't realize that was what you had to do. For that AutoIt is great (possibly one of the best). If that's the only way for this app to work, then yes, converting to MacOS would be pretty challenging.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Dan Richardson on May 09, 2020, 02:38:08 pm
Well, damn! It seems Mixing Station will only work with Win 10. Both of my laptops have Win 7.

I just installed and ran it on a Win7 machine.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 09, 2020, 03:04:32 pm
I just installed and ran it on a Win7 machine.
Thanks, Dan. I was going to try it tonight, so hopefully I will also have success.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Dan Richardson on May 10, 2020, 09:16:01 am
So no motorized faders then? ;-)

I never said it had literal motorized faders. The function of motorized faders is a tactile control that visually indicates its position, even if the value is changed by something else. It has that.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Olivier Merlet on May 11, 2020, 09:48:04 am
Thank you for that info, Shuptuu.

Just a word to the wise - you'll need to change your username to your real name otherwise this thread will get locked. Please do that, as I'd love to hear more from you!

It all makes sense now that you had to "remote control" the editor to make this work. I didn't realize that was what you had to do. For that AutoIt is great (possibly one of the best). If that's the only way for this app to work, then yes, converting to MacOS would be pretty challenging.

For your information, I just made a video to show my app capabilities: https://youtu.be/W4scTnCxQNQ
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: lindsay Dean on May 12, 2020, 01:13:59 pm
Just as a side note on installing Windows 10 on a Windows 7 machine.
 there's a lot of Manufacturers that do not support updated drivers for their older Windows 7 hardware
 
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 12, 2020, 01:41:39 pm
For your information, I just made a video to show my app capabilities: https://youtu.be/W4scTnCxQNQ
Impressive!
I see what you mean - it's actually remote controlling the app, not translating the communication protocols. Looks like it must have been a lot of work, but the result looks very slick!
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Russell Ault on May 12, 2020, 01:48:50 pm
there's a lot of Manufacturers that do not support updated drivers for their older Windows 7 hardware

+1

This really bit me a couple of years ago. I bought a refurbished ThinkPad that came with Windows 10, and it turned out to be just old enough that Lenovo didn't support Windows 10 on it. Most things worked just fine, but the included generic USB host drivers would intermittently lag out, which made using it for USB audio very unreliable (which is, of course, what I had bought the laptop to do).

-Russ
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: brian maddox on May 12, 2020, 02:56:13 pm
For your information, I just made a video to show my app capabilities: https://youtu.be/W4scTnCxQNQ

So I owe you some money, 'cause your app is amazing and your documentation is spot on.

Only weird wrinkle I hit was that the X-Air 1.5 for PC was not on the downloads page at Behringer for the XR18, but for some reasons it was on the page for the XR16.  [Olivier's app doesn't work with earlier editor versions].  Took a little googlage to figure that one out.

And your English is better than mine.  So, no worries there.  :)

Thanks for all the work on this.  Huge time saver for me!
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: duane massey on May 14, 2020, 10:08:47 pm
For your information, I just made a video to show my app capabilities: https://youtu.be/W4scTnCxQNQ
Thank you, thank you! This is perfect for what I need, actually does a lot MORE than what I need!
I had no luck with Sweetwater (basically said it couldn't be done), Behringer's "support" is useless, and Mixing Station wouldn't work (could be user error).
Your app worked perfectly immediately.
I owe you some $$$.
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: han sommen on March 07, 2021, 07:38:20 am
Thank you, thank you! This is perfect for what I need, actually does a lot MORE than what I need!
I had no luck with Sweetwater (basically said it couldn't be done), Behringer's "support" is useless, and Mixing Station wouldn't work (could be user error).
Your app worked perfectly immediately.
I owe you some $$$.

FYI I made a stand allone module to control the 4 DCA faders of the XR16/18 with 4 rotary encoders, the push on those encoders do recal snapshot 1...4 (or 5....8)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Mac Kerr on March 07, 2021, 09:06:12 am
FYI I made a stand allone module to control the 4 DCA faders of the XR16/18 with 4 rotary encoders, the push on those encoders do recal snapshot 1...4 (or 5....8)

Please go to your profile and change your name to your real full name as required by the posting rules.

Mac
admin
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Russell Ault on March 07, 2021, 05:29:24 pm
FYI I made a stand allone module to control the 4 DCA faders of the XR16/18 with 4 rotary encoders, the push on those encoders do recal snapshot 1...4 (or 5....8)

Cool idea! How does it interface with the X-Air?

-Russ
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: han sommen on March 08, 2021, 04:32:48 pm
Cool idea! How does it interface with the X-Air?

-Russ
Hello Russ, it has a 5 pole din so the communication is in midi, power 5 volt (usb connector)
Title: Re: XR18 simple control surface suggestion
Post by: Olivier Merlet on April 19, 2021, 11:02:25 am
Hi,
To improve my app "TheLink" and create the perfect compact and affordable digital mixing solution,
I'm glad to annonce a crowdfunding campaign starting today, for a new idea: TheLink-Color
For those who already played with my app, you may notice it's sometimes confusing when selecting channels on the X-Touch Mini, to quickly know which button is your guitar channel for example.
So the idea is to develop as an easy-to-do  DIY project, a midi extension to your X-Touch Mini, to display channel scribble trip colors.
More details here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thelink-color/x/26515444#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thelink-color/x/26515444#/)
If you like the idea, feel free to contribute and help me to develop it!